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2b isk.. what do I do?

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Aleph Phrozen	Posted - 2011.05.22 11:47:00 - [1] Hi all, I would be very happy with answers to only some of my many stupid questions. Any advice is welcome. I am an EVE waffler that comes back every 6~ months, I always try the new patch content and generally get bored (no friends etc, bleh). I've amassed 2.5B isk through missioning and character sales. I'm getting a little tired of only getting 10~20m isk/hard fought mission. Beyond that I mine or refine mission loot and build battleships from BPCs occasionally. I've tried planetary interaction, both the old and the new, and I spend a lot of time on the various forums. It's really pretty boring as hell. What do I actually do with my hard earned isk? Between all the various scams, some even make major news sites, and CCPs complete inability to make an enforceable contract, it just seems like a bad idea to rely "in general" on bonds, secondary market stock trading, etc. Is this a bad assumption? Does anyone make the majority of their income through funding the play and development of others? Isn't 3%/month (36% APY!!) insane and unsustainable? If market buy/sell is anything like real life high freq trading, then I would guess its a 0.01 undercut botfest? While I really enjoy that EVE provides full L2 data on both bid and ask, it is a real shame because the majority of my income in other games (FFXI was almost a dark pool, WoW is ask side full L2, curious what Rift uses) is pure arbitrage. It seems like gathering pricing information on every commodity in every region is a real pain in the butt and subject to regular change, and obviously never going to get specific advice as its direct competition. Is Production seems challenging as the place you can make stuff probably isn't the place you can buy or sell the stuff? Would I need a freighter/jump freighter to be really effective? With the general cries of deflation (which I thought was generally a good thing, but if game items are cheaper but PLEX prices keep rising then ISK seems weaker?) What about a POS (love the acronym btw..)? I suppose since I have the rep I could run this in high sec and be pretty safe. What would I actually do? My own private production or research? Do people want BPOs researched? Would they trust me? It seems like I could almost run them for "free" with enough PI on plasma planets? Are there other uses for these things, and how safe is it in high/low sec, and are there advantages to low/null? I just feel like I'm missing something major here.
m f w	Posted - 2011.05.22 12:25:00 - [2] You can turn your POS into a scifi meth lab, also you missed trading which is wierd since this is MD
Aleph Phrozen	Posted - 2011.05.22 13:23:00 - [3] Naw you just missed it in the wall of text. Is meth lab a drug manufacture reference, or moon mining + reactions for T2 materials? Both seem like I would need more than one station?
Spruillo Gallente Spruillo Corp	Posted - 2011.05.22 13:40:00 - [4] BY 4 VINDICATORS AND DEC R-V-B Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object When I nerf something, it takes 2-3 months for your dreams to be crushed.
Aleph Phrozen	Posted - 2011.05.22 13:44:00 - [5] Originally by: Spruillo BY 4 VINDICATORS AND DEC R-V-B After some EVE searching I've decyphered that you meant purchase four faction megathrons and then wardeck a pair of PVP corps called Red Federation and Blue Federation that mainly uses cheap frigates like Rifters. I'm going to need a little more info to figure out how this will grow my money. Do player wrecks salvage better than missions?
Lord Wickham	Posted - 2011.05.22 14:08:00 - [6] You would need a freighter to manufacture otherwise haulage costs eats your profit. 3% on 100 bil is 3bil monthly more then enough to plex several characters.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.05.22 14:11:00 - [7] Quote: Hi all. Any advice is welcome I suggest you quit. Your whole OP seems made by someone who is hanging in EvE and is at the last straw and asking for an externally driven psychological push to finally trigger the final decision. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Spruillo Gallente Spruillo Corp	Posted - 2011.05.22 14:33:00 - [8] Originally by: Aleph Phrozen Blue Federation ITS BLUE REPUBLIC NOOB ANYWAY MAKE IT 32 DAREDEVILS CAUSE THEY ROCK AND 32 IS MORE THAN 4 Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object When I nerf something, it takes 2-3 months for your dreams to be crushed.
Khanid Voltar	Posted - 2011.05.22 14:41:00 - [9] I would suggest finding a niche to trade whereby you dont have to update your orders more than once a day (people don't give that sort of data out so you're gonna have to do some research) and continue to mission. Anything else is :effort: and since you already seem pretty bored with the game there is no point in getting involved with something you are quickly going to tire from. Alternatively give away your stuff and biomass your characters so you don't feel compelled to come back every 6 months when CCP give you a free 5 day reactivation.
egola Amarr	Posted - 2011.05.22 14:50:00 - [10] well on a much more serious note: once you leave can i haz your stuff?

AeonthePiglet	Posted - 2011.05.22 16:03:00 - [11] He wants you to spend your money dying to folks like me in expensive ways. While I heartily support that initiative, I'd suggest trying us in pvp as a member rather than a third party (and thus valid for podding) war target. Pop into r-v-b (our public channel) for a chat. Doing something totally different would give you a new perspective on Eve, and help you remember that this is a game, and the correct question to ask is not "how can I pile up more cash", but "what do I have fun doing". You just might find that what you really enjoy is pretty explosions, and that missions ain't so bad if you only do one every week or so. Or you can jump into smaller wormholes and bust things up to make a quick buck; a way more tolerable activity when performed with friends. Or you could see Eve as a second job and plan for the retirement of your character by building up sacks of fat monies. Whatever makes you happy!
Dretzle Omega Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.05.22 16:36:00 - [12] As mentioned, it looks like you're more looking for a reason to quit than real advise on how to use your money. That being said, I did want to point out that there can be much better ways to make money trading than modifying orders by 0.01 ISK all day. One technique is layering your orders, especially at a trade hub. This requires capital, which you have enough of, and patience, which it sounds like you have given a demanding real life job. Originally by: Akita T BTW, if you see God when you're clutching for your chest due to sudden realization you have no chance to get out of this with your wallet intact tell him he still owes me money
Liberty Eternal	Posted - 2011.05.22 16:49:00 - [13] Originally by: Dretzle Omega As mentioned, it looks like you're more looking for a reason to quit than real advise on how to use your money. That being said, I did want to point out that there can be much better ways to make money trading than modifying orders by 0.01 ISK all day. One technique is layering your orders, especially at a trade hub. This requires capital, which you have enough of, and patience, which it sounds like you have given a demanding real life job. Yo o/ Long-time no see - wb to the new and improved MD
Tutskii	Posted - 2011.05.22 17:47:00 - [14] The relatively big thing you are missing is the simplest one: Make friends. when you get down to it, there is no meaning to making more and more isk. There is a relatively low ceiling of what you can reasonably buy without becoming a "blow me up plx" pi±ata, and you don't seem to PVP. What it sounds like is like what you really want is some human interaction. Hit #signatures, #scc-lounge, and maybe join a corp, you'll have a better time. Barring that, quit. For scaling, well, trade! For investing, well, I recommend murblybux, formerly a high yield bond, it is now aimed at institutional investors, it is full but there may be openings in the future (shameless plug) But seriously, life is short. If you don't enjoy this, find something you enjoy, and do that, instead. Go make a new disaster, that's what I'm counting on. You're someone else's problem, now I only want you gone...
110101101	Posted - 2011.05.22 17:54:00 - [15] Buy Isotopes low, take them to low-sec staging areas that alliance use for jumping into null-sec. You'll make some pretty low maintenance money that way. Take some kestrels and cynosurals with you too.
egola Amarr	Posted - 2011.05.22 18:08:00 - [16] Originally by: Tutskii The relatively big thing you are missing is the simplest one: Make friends. ]I recommend murblybux, formerly a high yield bond, it is now aimed at institutional investors, it is full but there may be openings in the future (shameless plug) -1 for making it a FORMER high yield bond......oh and ugh take your adverts elsewhere!
Khanid Voltar	Posted - 2011.05.22 18:42:00 - [17] Originally by: Tutskii Hit #signatures, #scc-lounge, There is a plethora of Canadians in these channels, ignore this warning at your peril!
Aleph Phrozen	Posted - 2011.05.22 21:29:00 - [18] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha I suggest you quit. Your whole OP seems made by someone who is hanging in EvE and is at the last straw and asking for an externally driven psychological push to finally trigger the final decision. This did not intend to be so confusing. My initial post was a description of the various ways I'm guessing I could be using my money rather than it sitting in a wallet. The problem was it was a wall of text and my very first post suggested something that was in the middle, so I reformatted it to cover points but now it looks like I've tried all those things. I've never done any of those things besides missioning and PI really, and I was curious if I was describing them in a general, vague way wrongly (bad assumptions). I think the general tone in MD is pessimistic, and I think I reflected that tone back a fair bit to sound overly defeatist. I have "mastered" L4s and I understand that's like "winning at the special olympics" stuff. EVE is not PVE, and EVE market is in its own way PVP. I realize asking for advice is basically self defeating but I have seen it happen here, from time to time.
m f w	Posted - 2011.05.22 23:48:00 - [19] Edited by: m f w on 22/05/2011 23:48:16 - 2b isk.. what do I do? You could put in massive region wide buy orders for Veldspar and Scordite then use a magnate to move it all to Jita and become as rich as Santa.
Johnathan Billabong	Posted - 2011.05.23 00:32:00 - [20] Ok Lebron. What should I do? Do I invest it with someone on MD? Do I give it all to Akita T? What should I do? Do I try to manipulate a market? Do I buy ratting ships with it? What should I do?

Candy Oshea Amarr Techfree Investment Group	Posted - 2011.05.23 01:17:00 - [21] Well you seem pretty bored. If i was you i would sell/firesale everything i had officer fit a Mach, Jump into EC- during US Primetime on the weekend. Take out as many as you can & get podded, then leave the game for good. May as well go out in a bang ___ iCandy Bonds
Ghoest	Posted - 2011.05.23 04:29:00 - [22] The OP missed the rather obvious thing to do with his isk - speculate. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Mu-Shi Ai The Chrysalis Group	Posted - 2011.05.23 04:32:00 - [23] 1. Train up Trade/Retail/Wholesale until you have something over 100 orders available to you. 2. Train up Marketing to 3. 3. Train up Daytrading to 3. 4. Find a region with an ample number of mission hubs in it. 5. Plop yourself down at a station which will allow you to be within 10 jumps of all or most of those mission hubs. 6. Place buy orders on the market for profitable items at a range of 10 jumps. 7. When those orders fill, go through your assets and put the items up for sale at higher prices than what you bought them for. 8. Repeat 6-7. Long-range trading is a great way to make a lot of ISK without burning yourself out, because you generally don't need to be checking your orders any more than two times a day at most. And you could safely leave your orders unwatched for days or even weeks without it being too big a deal. The only time-intensive task is in the beginning when you research which items you want to buy/sell. You'll want to go through pretty much the whole market and find those items which have a consistent quantity traded in the region. Put those in your quick market tab. Then I go through those items and find ones where the avg. price falls more or less in the middle of the lowest and highest prices. Those are my prime items. And from those I whittle down the best using a program like EVETycoon (just export the data from the market window and let the program do its job). Keep track of profits with EMMA for good measure.
Women's Rights	Posted - 2011.05.23 04:58:00 - [24] Remember to run locators for Mu-Shi
Mu-Shi Ai The Chrysalis Group	Posted - 2011.05.23 05:38:00 - [25] Originally by: Women's Rights Remember to run locators for Mu-Shi Why?
Rule18 Capsuleer Races And Violent Events Inc.	Posted - 2011.05.23 13:35:00 - [26] Originally by: m f w Edited by: m f w on 22/05/2011 23:48:16 - 2b isk.. what do I do? You could put in massive region wide buy orders for Veldspar and Scordite then use a magnate to move it all to Jita and become as rich as Santa. Heads up, santa's snow-poor (he's reduced to using immigrant elf labor). -----Signature----- CRAVE, taking you beyond the capsule. "If it can be named, it can be hated." -Rule18
BLACK D0G Lethal Death Squad	Posted - 2011.05.23 14:44:00 - [27] keep 10% liquid. take the remaining 1.8bn and spend it. Use your knowledge (you appear to be a mission runner) to purchase items that players use. Place items in a market where players can buy them. Its really that simple. BLACK D0G is for SALE!
Das Miner Gallente Thunder Bolt Industries	Posted - 2011.05.23 17:43:00 - [28] Invest it in Thunder Bolt Industries!
Meazzal Bug Amarr Crown Space Developments	Posted - 2011.06.15 16:10:00 - [29] I'm not the OP but was reading up in MD and found your post, i still got to do my homework, but just the simplified concept has been helpful thx sent ya 10m (sure its small fries to you but still thx a lot) -Mez + alts Originally by: Mu-Shi Ai 1. Train up Trade/Retail/Wholesale until you have something over 100 orders available to you. 2. Train up Marketing to 3. 3. Train up Daytrading to 3. 4. Find a region with an ample number of mission hubs in it. 5. Plop yourself down at a station which will allow you to be within 10 jumps of all or most of those mission hubs. 6. Place buy orders on the market for profitable items at a range of 10 jumps. 7. When those orders fill, go through your assets and put the items up for sale at higher prices than what you bought them for. 8. Repeat 6-7. Long-range trading is a great way to make a lot of ISK without burning yourself out, because you generally don't need to be checking your orders any more than two times a day at most. And you could safely leave your orders unwatched for days or even weeks without it being too big a deal. The only time-intensive task is in the beginning when you research which items you want to buy/sell. You'll want to go through pretty much the whole market and find those items which have a consistent quantity traded in the region. Put those in your quick market tab. Then I go through those items and find ones where the avg. price falls more or less in the middle of the lowest and highest prices. Those are my prime items. And from those I whittle down the best using a program like EVETycoon (just export the data from the market window and let the program do its job). Keep track of profits with EMMA for good measure. Meazzal Bug Join The Ancient Empire Space Navy Academy(AESNA)
Atima Minmatar House of Marbles	Posted - 2011.06.15 23:57:00 - [30] Originally by: Aleph Phrozen Edited by: Aleph Phrozen on 22/05/2011 21:43:01 Hi all. The list is a description of how I think they work, I've never done them except for run missions and a little PI, please tell me how I'm wrong as I want to better understand my options. I EVE waffle every 6~12 months, I always taste the new patch content, but generally get bored (no friends etc, bleh) as I the only serious thing I've ever done was run missions and a little PI (and we all know PVE=boring). The rest is pure speculation I've got a pretty demanding job IRL, and I can only put in maybe an hour a day into EVE. What do I actually do with my hard earned ISK so that it isn't just sitting in my wallet? Missioning with better stuff - Seems like once you go into faction gear you just becoause a juicy target. I'm pretty efficient at this already with a Noctis alt and gank-fit Marauders. It's boring as hell really and wealth grows linearly at 10~20m/hard fought mission, there's no scaling at all which is the whole problem. ??Wormholes?? - I've read a fair bit of Drake/Tengu discussion on this, but I really have no idea why this is valuable, how many people it takes, etc.. Seems like potentially a large time sink. Again no scaling but potentially a steeper linear increase? My take is that these are "missions" that I have to find myself with an unknown difficulty. INVESTING - Between all the various scams, some even making major news sites, and CCPs complete inability to make an enforceable contract, it just seems like a bad idea to in general rely on bonds, secondary market stock trading, etc. Is this a bad assumption? Does anyone make the majority of their income through funding the play and development of others? Isn't 3%/month (36% APY!!) insane and unsustainable? 100bil isk to play for free on one account w/ 3% monthly interest.. TRADING - UPDATE! People are claiming if I am smart it is not a 0.01 isk repricing botfest. I am going to try to read into these ideas and meditate more on how this could be. PRODUCTION - Production seems challenging as the place you can make stuff probably isn't the place you can buy or sell the stuff? Would I need a freighter/jump freighter to be really effective? With the general cries of deflation (which I thought was generally a good thing, but if game items are cheaper but PLEX prices keep rising then ISK seems weaker?) PLANETARY INTERACTION - Theres a ton of moaning on this constantly from people. The change seems to involve less clicks but you need to move things around and mine different stuff in spurts instead of all the different types slowly which some people didn't seem to get. I could probably get 6~9 characters doing this if it was worth it by itself. Seems to be by many very fickle with the market, price fluctuating means if I bought mid-chain I might actually lose. Seems like a larger hauler might benefit here too? And I should probably focus on products which actually have a use (seems some don't have much of a demand for them?) Hisec POS - What about a POS (love the acronym btw..)? I suppose since I have the rep I could run this in high sec and be pretty safe. What would I actually do? My own private production or research? Do people want BPOs researched? Would they trust me? It seems like I could almost run them for "free" with enough PI on plasma planets. Are there other uses for these things, and how safe is it in high/low sec, and are there advantages to low/null? I just feel like I'm missing something. Any advice is welcome. I find it helps that every time you waffle with EVE you start a bond and forget to pay it back.



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