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Scanning Needs to be changed- in Wormhole

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Sgiliy	Posted - 2011.05.23 03:32:00 - [1] I am posing this question for all of you: Why is it that trying to scan down a worm hole, while inside of J space is so freaking time consuming? I do not have a sinlge problem with the scanning mechanic. It has gotten much better from where it started. I only have a problem when it comes to scanning down wormholes. I am a wormhole nomad and move in and aorund J space very very often. It annoys me greatly when It takes me hours of scanning just to make it a half dozen jumps. Why the long time you ask? Because when I scan in Worm hole each potential hit could be one. So i have to spen the time scanning out each and every single signature. Is there no way that CCP could implement a 'common' worm hole signature? perhaps WOH would designate a wormhole point. I am getting sick and tired of having to scan through all of the gravs, ladars, radars, and mags- to finally find what i am looking for. Now I am not saying that this change should take place in known space. I am simply suggesting that this could be a great fix for worm hole- and it would make moving around so much easier, and less of a boring scan fest. Thoughts, Ideas, Flame?
Barkaial Starfinder Minmatar The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost	Posted - 2011.05.23 04:17:00 - [2] Unknowns are WH.
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate	Posted - 2011.05.23 04:21:00 - [3] Originally by: Barkaial Starfinder Unknowns are WH.
Astroka	Posted - 2011.05.23 04:24:00 - [4] Edited by: Astroka on 23/05/2011 04:24:35 Originally by: Sader Rykane Originally by: Barkaial Starfinder Unknowns are WH. Originally by: Ioci Welcome to the bustedness of EVE. 1 guy can disband a 2000 man alliance and wipe out trillions, that's cool. Give back a noob 10 mill? No, that's game breaking.
Mutnin Amarr Mutineers	Posted - 2011.05.23 04:45:00 - [5] Edited by: Mutnin on 23/05/2011 04:47:19 As someone whom hunts in WH's from time to time I can agree that it can be a real PITA in systems with tons of sigs. Personally I think WH's should be given it's own sig type..that would allow filters to be set with out having to probe out 20 Grav sites b4 finding the WH.. 1 tip I can give you in order to make it go faster, is to set your probes up @ 4AU. Then probe around each planet in the system. This will typically weed out a large portion of non WH sigs pretty fast. edit.. Also the new "alt" key feature is very nice for knocking out sigs fast.. (it moves all your probes in or out from the center)
JeanMichel Bizarre Firebird Squadron Terra-Incognita	Posted - 2011.05.23 04:47:00 - [6] Edited by: JeanMichel Bizarre on 23/05/2011 04:49:29 Indeed, all wormholes have the "unknown" denominator, but in order to identify them you need to scan them to at least 25%, IIRC, which is indeed times consuming when you have to sift through ladar, gravs, radars and mags, even if only to 25% Thus, I agree with the OP that the current system is a tedious chore. This is why I would also love it if there was an option to filter out everything BUT the "unknowns" when you first start scanning. The technology is there (see how you can already filter sigs, anomalies, structures and ships) so it's just a matter of implementation. BTW, this need to be moved to the suggestions forum.
Influentialistic Teleportificationisalism	Posted - 2011.05.23 04:47:00 - [7] Originally by: Mutnin Personally I think WH's should be given it's own sig type..that would allow filters to be set with out having to probe out 20 Grav sites b4 finding the WH Wormholes are Unknown.
JeanMichel Bizarre Firebird Squadron Terra-Incognita	Posted - 2011.05.23 04:52:00 - [8] Edited by: JeanMichel Bizarre on 23/05/2011 04:52:41 Originally by: Influentialistic Teleportificationisalism Originally by: Mutnin Personally I think WH's should be given it's own sig type..that would allow filters to be set with out having to probe out 20 Grav sites b4 finding the WH Wormholes are Unknown. You lot seem to be doing this out of pure spite. YES, we ****n know wormholes are Unknown, but can you create a new filter in the scanning interface and choose Unknown? No, you freaking cannot, you choose signature and this also includes mags, gravs, ladar, radars... Sheesh...
Sgiliy	Posted - 2011.05.23 05:01:00 - [9] well I will make this thread in the suggestions forum as well. For all of those 160 IQ genius posters that are telling me that worm holes are unknown- thanks! That seemed to have fixed my problem. I was trying to find 'wormhole'. Lets just hope that CCP decides to take a listen to this lol
Widemouth Deepthroat	Posted - 2011.05.23 06:57:00 - [10] I remember it was on their lists of small changes to do so hopefully it happens within the next 18 months.
Mr Kidd	Posted - 2011.05.23 07:35:00 - [11] Originally by: JeanMichel Bizarre Thus, I agree with the OP that the current system is a tedious chore. This is why I would also love it if there was an option to filter out everything BUT the "unknowns" when you first start scanning. The technology is there (see how you can already filter sigs, anomalies, structures and ships) so it's just a matter of implementation. BTW, this need to be moved to the suggestions forum. I'm not sure what you're wanting here. Instantly find wh's or just uncluttering the scan results? If it's the latter, it's not hard to focus on 3 alphabetical letter making up the sig id is it? If it's the former, yeah, wouldn't insta-scans be nice for wh's? I mean who wouldn't like to remove that time sink? But, it would remove an integral part of the game. My suggestion for the op, train your astrometrics to higher levels and work on your probing techniques. Honestly, we probe out up to a dozen wh's in a day in multiple systems and fairly quickly. There's a deep space probe technique examining initial sig strengths, and that can be done with regular probes as well.
Tyslas Firebird Squadron Terra-Incognita	Posted - 2011.05.23 07:53:00 - [12] Buy Sisters probes, get implants, train your skills and click faster.
Daneel Trevize Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.23 08:15:00 - [13] Edited by: Daneel Trevize on 23/05/2011 08:15:49 Use http://wormnav.com/ Thus you know the size of the static sig for the w-space you're in. Depending on recent jump activity you can make assumptions about there being any incoming wormholes. These K162s will always be size 10 sigs, the largest and thus easiest. With the just-1-probe-set-large-at-first technique, you'll immediately have a list of all possible K162s, plus be able to eliminate everything that's too big/small to be the static (e.g. ignore size 5s if the static's a size 2.5 nullsec or size 10 lowsec). The only thing it doesn't make super easy is outbound dynamics and their sizes. But at least in e.g. c3s there are few(no other?) things that are size 6.6 apart from said c3->c3s.
JeanMichel Bizarre Firebird Squadron Terra-Incognita	Posted - 2011.05.23 10:33:00 - [14] Originally by: Widemouth Deepthroat I remember it was on their lists of small changes to do so hopefully it happens within the next 18 months. Yeah, hopefully. Originally by: Mr Kidd I'm not sure what you're wanting here. Instantly find wh's or just uncluttering the scan results? It's both and neither at the same time. I want to be able to choose what results my scanner will show. If I'm after wormholes, I should be able to choose Unknown as the filter, if I'm looking for profession sites, I would choose cosmig sigs as a filter... Originally by: Tyslas Buy Sisters probes, get implants, train your skills and click faster. Just so I can circumvent an obvious design flaw? Doing it already, but I don't think I should have to. Originally by: Daneel Trevize Edited by: Daneel Trevize on 23/05/2011 08:15:49 Use http://wormnav.com/ Thus you know the size of the static sig for the w-space you're in. Depending on recent jump activity you can make assumptions about there being any incoming wormholes. These K162s will always be size 10 sigs, the largest and thus easiest. With the just-1-probe-set-large-at-first technique, you'll immediately have a list of all possible K162s, plus be able to eliminate everything that's too big/small to be the static (e.g. ignore size 5s if the static's a size 2.5 nullsec or size 10 lowsec). The only thing it doesn't make super easy is outbound dynamics and their sizes. But at least in e.g. c3s there are few(no other?) things that are size 6.6 apart from said c3->c3s. What's all this about different size sigs? Anywhere I can further read up on this? I'm unfamiliar with a lot of what you're saying.
Apollo Gabriel Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2011.05.23 10:42:00 - [15] I live in a WH, it honestly takes me 5 mins to find the exit, you need to train your skills up better, get a better rig for it. *** Signature may appear without warning! *** Please do not feed the trolls, it builds dependency.
Daneel Trevize Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.23 10:55:00 - [16] Originally by: JeanMichel Bizarre Originally by: Daneel Trevize http://wormnav.com/... What's all this about different size sigs? Anywhere I can further read up on this? I'm unfamiliar with a lot of what you're saying. Quote: Welcome to WormNav If you are a first time user or new to wormholes please refer to to this tutorial and the help section to get you started Sig Size's Explained
Gil Roland	Posted - 2011.05.23 11:23:00 - [17] Edited by: Gil Roland on 23/05/2011 11:25:17 I live in a WH, and basically agree with the request of a common WH signature. I go further in this discussion, and add another request: once a signature spawn, whatever signature it is, why don't let that signature have its ID assigned for all its lifetime? I mean, right now ID signatures change after each DT. This is just a nightmare for people living in WHs: let's say you have 30 signatures (Ladar, Radar, WHs, etc.). You pinpoint them all, and assign each one his own classification. Fine, you are good only for the next 24 hours, because every day after DT you need to pinpoint again each signature to know what is what regarding new IDs. So my request is: once a signature spawn for the first time, just let that signature have his own ID for its entire lifetime. Today a ladar site spawn under RTY-967 ID, ok, let RTY-967 be that ladar site until someone clear it, or it despawn for whatever reason
Splodger Black Viper Nomads	Posted - 2011.05.23 11:52:00 - [18] Originally by: Gil Roland Edited by: Gil Roland on 23/05/2011 11:25:17 I live in a WH, and basically agree with the request of a common WH signature. I go further in this discussion, and add another request: once a signature spawn, whatever signature it is, why don't let that signature have its ID assigned for all its lifetime? I mean, right now ID signatures change after each DT. This is just a nightmare for people living in WHs: let's say you have 30 signatures (Ladar, Radar, WHs, etc.). You pinpoint them all, and assign each one his own classification. Fine, you are good only for the next 24 hours, because every day after DT you need to pinpoint again each signature to know what is what regarding new IDs. So my request is: once a signature spawn for the first time, just let that signature have his own ID for its entire lifetime. Today a ladar site spawn under RTY-967 ID, ok, let RTY-967 be that ladar site until someone clear it, or it despawn for whatever reason I doubt they will every do this due to the nature of wormholes locations changing. One idea that Iam workign on next is a signature tracker you can test one here Sig tool (Require in-game trust and use in IGB).It essentially still requries someone to scan after downtime but will track what was in the system or statics etc. Hope this points you in the right direction or wait till I finnish wormnav's version, if you find it helpful.
Angel of Night	Posted - 2011.05.23 12:16:00 - [19] Why oh why can't there be beacons on every wormhole. Scanning is so yesterday. Nerfhammer for the win! I support my own troll.
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.05.23 12:52:00 - [20] When you really scan on a daily basis you'll start to notice that different types of sigs have different strengths and will resolve at different rates. But still, scanning isn't supposed to be a single click auto-find. There's a bit of work to it. We were just given the "Alt" functionality to make things faster (which I freakin' love, thanks CCP!), so there you go. Start scanning them down, get something to identify, if it's Unknown keep at it, if not ignore it and move on. Next the lazy amongst us will want CCP to email them the bookmarks for all the sigs in a system... sheesh...
Roime Gallente Talon Tech Securities Anarchy Unlimited	Posted - 2011.05.23 14:20:00 - [21] CCP please make wormhole sigs 90% weaker and introduce blank sigs ...or any other fix necessary to keep these lazy pansies in k-space optimizing their isk/hr ratios
Jack Tronic	Posted - 2011.05.23 14:26:00 - [22] Originally by: Roime CCP please make wormhole sigs 90% weaker and introduce blank sigs ...or any other fix necessary to keep these lazy pansies in k-space optimizing their isk/hr ratios This! I have entire chains scanned out within minutes instead of these lazy nubs whining about it's too hard. There's a method to everything, probing is not excluded. There are tricks to locate wormholes in 60 sig systems instantly. Stop being daft and dumb and start learning. There's reasons theres no definitive "guide" on it because it all becomes gut instinct, also why help complete idiots when you can help yourself instead?
Gank'aho	Posted - 2011.05.23 14:30:00 - [23] Originally by: Jack Tronic Originally by: Roime CCP please make wormhole sigs 90% weaker and introduce blank sigs ...or any other fix necessary to keep these lazy pansies in k-space optimizing their isk/hr ratios This! I have entire chains scanned out within minutes instead of these lazy nubs whining about it's too hard. There's a method to everything, probing is not excluded. There are tricks to locate wormholes in 60 sig systems instantly. Stop being daft and dumb and start learning. There's reasons theres no definitive "guide" on it because it all becomes gut instinct, also why help complete idiots when you can help yourself instead?
NinjaSpud	Posted - 2011.05.23 15:26:00 - [24] Wow really? Even with the awesome change to scanning that just happened (I LOVE THE ALT KEY NOW) that makes probing 10 times faster, you're gonna say it isn't good enough? What are you trying to do? Roam WH space looking for an afk miner? This isn't low sec, that's not gonna happen buddy, especially not alone. Needless to say, you need to know what you're doing. And If you're doing it alone, you're not doing it right. Example: Yesterday, we cycled our static c5, and found a completely untouched system (for those of you who don't know, that means there where LOTS of signatures). with just 2 of us scanning, and being organized, we had every signature (including 2 WH exits) locked down in about 10 minuets. I live in WH space, and I would not want it any easier then it is. It's supposed to be challenging...it's the frontier of space. All trolling aside, it really just sounds like you're not prepared. Here's what you need if you want to navigate WH space: 1) get a dedicated scan ship. I'm talking about a t2 cov ops scanner, not a scan probe launcher added onto the last slot of your Drake. You'll need the scan bonuses from the ship, and the ability to hide while you scan. 2) Learn where annoms are...I wont give it away here, as it's kind of a trade secret, but cosmic sigs usually spawn in a recognizable pattern. I can hop into a system, put out 1 probe, and be able to tell you (8 out of 10 times) what sig is a WH, just by where it shows up on the scan overview. 3) use the right gear. If it doesn't say Sisters, don't waste your valuable time. 4) Do not travel alone....o wait, go ahead, I love easy kills.
Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2011.05.23 15:40:00 - [25] I don't see what's so difficult about dropping a single deep space probe and determining which signals are wormholes from the results you get from an initial system scan. You can eliminate a large proportion of the results right from this first return.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2011.05.23 16:10:00 - [26] Edited by: Destination SkillQueue on 23/05/2011 16:10:14 Originally by: Lady Spank I don't see what's so difficult about dropping a single deep space probe and determining which signals are wormholes from the results you get from an initial system scan. You can eliminate a large proportion of the results right from this first return. Yes, but that doesn't fix the issue, it just reduces the workload and annoyance to a more manageable level. While the current system is still acceptable to me it can get a little cluttered at times and will only get worse as the exploration system gets more content added to it. It can easily turn to a system where people spend most of their time scanning signatures they never had any interest in. Basicly just wasting their time in the game and getting bored while gaining nothing. I think it would be a good idea now and a must in the long run to create a few separate signature groups and make the groups visible to initial scans made by scan probes or deep space probes. Using the current system as an example: condence ladar/grav, mag/radar and unknown(possibly separate wormholes too) sites to their own groups and show that immediately with a probe scan(possibly only for DSPs to give more incentives to train for them). It would mainly just reduce the time people waste scanning sites they have no interest in doing/finding. The competition for those sites would stay just as fierce as it is today and the sites wouldn't be respawned any faster, so it's not like things would suddenly come unbalanced. Again, less frustration and time wasted on scanning useless sites to you and more time spending doing the activity you logged in for, resulting in a better gameplay experience for the player.
Brakte	Posted - 2011.05.23 16:11:00 - [27] we've got 30 signatures in our system, takes me 10 minutes to find the wormhole. get better at scanning kthnx
Alaura Aquila Minmatar JOKAS Industries Matari Legion	Posted - 2011.05.23 16:21:00 - [28] Posting in yet another "please dumb down the game" thread.
Holdout	Posted - 2011.05.23 16:30:00 - [29] Originally by: Jack Tronic Originally by: Roime CCP please make wormhole sigs 90% weaker and introduce blank sigs ...or any other fix necessary to keep these lazy pansies in k-space optimizing their isk/hr ratios This! I have entire chains scanned out within minutes instead of these lazy nubs whining about it's too hard. There's a method to everything, probing is not excluded. There are tricks to locate wormholes in 60 sig systems instantly. Stop being daft and dumb and start learning. There's reasons theres no definitive "guide" on it because it all becomes gut instinct, also why help complete idiots when you can help yourself instead? douche
Cobalt Sablestar Icefluxor Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2011.05.23 16:31:00 - [30] Wow. Whining for instant results, instead of having to actually learn, understand, and manipulate game mechanics. I mean really : Why do all those asteroids take me so long to mine ? I think they should introduce a mechanic that just sucks in the entire contents of a rock the second I click on it. Why should I waste my time waiting on my lasers to eat that stupid rock for 10 minutes. I want it ALL, in my cargohold, right this instant, dammit!!!! Why do I have to wait for all those stupid cycles ?????? You just want EASY ************ "I can not tell you what particular weapon will be used in World War III, but I can tell you what will be used in World War IV. Rocks." - Albert Einstein

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