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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2011.05.23 16:32:00 -
[31]
Originally by: JeanMichel Bizarre
Indeed, all wormholes have the "unknown" denominator, but in order to identify them you need to scan them to at least 25%, IIRC, which is indeed times consuming when you have to sift through ladar, gravs, radars and mags, even if only to 25%
You sir are doing it WRONG.
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Adrian Idaho
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Posted - 2011.05.23 16:35:00 -
[32]
Indeed, the new Alt-key functionality makes scanning a lot faster, especially if you're not very proficient in it (like me). On that subject: the green lines which indicate the center of the active probes disappear after a while, and are not visible again, even when I move the probes. Does anyone else have this problem?
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Borisk Zeltsh
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Posted - 2011.05.23 17:04:00 -
[33]
another lets dumb down eve thread god forbit we might have to do stuff for our self's yo ccp move this mouse for me while i go shopping thnx
hey here a idea why not make wh's show system wide like cyno's
would that be ok for you OP
if you dont like J-space GTFO
-3 another whine thread
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Jack Tronic
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Posted - 2011.05.23 17:13:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Holdout
Originally by: Jack Tronic
Originally by: Roime CCP please make wormhole sigs 90% weaker and introduce blank sigs
...or any other fix necessary to keep these lazy pansies in k-space optimizing their isk/hr ratios
This!
I have entire chains scanned out within minutes instead of these lazy nubs whining about it's too hard. There's a method to everything, probing is not excluded. There are tricks to locate wormholes in 60 sig systems instantly. Stop being daft and dumb and start learning. There's reasons theres no definitive "guide" on it because it all becomes gut instinct, also why help complete idiots when you can help yourself instead?
douche
Yep, my actual corp title on my main is indeed Douche! Spai.
In other news, you sound like a person that would be RAGEQUIT mad after failing to have a "diplomatic" convo asking for your corp to be blue in whspace because wormholers are apparently supposed to help each other and love each other. Just recalling a certain hilarious incident in the past from people who really expect to be babied all the way through eve.
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Des Jardin
Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2011.05.23 17:23:00 -
[35]
Wormholes are working as intended.
I suggest becoming a student of the game instead of just an inhabitant.
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Mutnin
Amarr Mutineers
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Posted - 2011.05.23 17:23:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Cobalt Sablestar Icefluxor Wow.
Whining for instant results, instead of having to actually learn, understand, and manipulate game mechanics.
You just want EASY
Really? Then tell me why there is a diffrence in Cosmic Anoms & Cosmic sigs? All of them with the exception of WH's are "sites" to be run via combat, mining, salvaging & hacking.
A WH on the other hand is just a "portal" to another system, so why should it be the same in regard to probing as site? It's completely different from a normal site as it's a entrance/exit to a different system.
Also if it's about dumbing down the game, then why do I need to use probes to find sigs, but I only have to use my ship scanner to find anoms?
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Daneel Trevize
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.23 18:14:00 -
[37]
You are not considering the tactical implications. If people didn't have to scan the sigs they could know it's a deadend if they come in through the static, or that there's the chance of a counter-counter gank 3-way if they jump that inhabitant doing an anom. Getting a new system, seeing something pass on dscan, and finding 3 or 4 holes to choose from adds far more than would be taken by always having a count of the number of connections. Plus new sigs would immediately be known to be hostile K162s rather than potentially a low yield grav/ladar and maybe less incentive to scan asap. |
Alaura Aquila
Minmatar JOKAS Industries Matari Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.23 18:23:00 -
[38]
The only thing I found annoying in WH space was that the signature ID changed after DT. Life would be a LOT easier if they remained static.
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Lady Spank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.05.23 18:32:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Mutnin No one is saying we shouldn't have to probe them out, just that they should be sorted differently so we don't have to sift through 20 other sigs when just looking for a WH.
If it hasn't been made clear enough already: Look at the signal strengths and also their rough locations. An initial scan will show you a large amount of duds and a small number of potentials, after which it takes little time to work out the wormholes from the rest.
If you haven't narrowed it down, at a minimum, five potentials out of 20 sigs in system after one scan then you aren't very good at interpreting scan results.
I usually find at least one wormhole in my first two proper scans.
Expecting to be able to ignore all signatures but wormholes, or even all but Unknowns is horribly lazy. Pre-Apocrypha; efficient scannning used to be nigh on an art form and having the ability to reliably find high-end plexes for 0.0 alliances made you a very desirable corp member. Since Apocrypha any mofo with basic astrometric skills can find nigh on every single site with barely any technical skill required. Expecting it to be dumbed down further is shameful.
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Hesperius
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Posted - 2011.05.23 19:01:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Sgiliy Thoughts, Ideas, Flame?
The highest strength sig is usually a WH, so maybe sort your results by signal strength, noob.
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Londo Cebb
Official Market Discussions Troll
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Posted - 2011.05.23 19:46:00 -
[41]
Are wormholes "unknown"?
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Apollo Gabriel
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2011.05.23 19:57:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Gil Roland Edited by: Gil Roland on 23/05/2011 11:25:17 I live in a WH, and basically agree with the request of a common WH signature. I go further in this discussion, and add another request: once a signature spawn, whatever signature it is, why don't let that signature have its ID assigned for all its lifetime? I mean, right now ID signatures change after each DT. This is just a nightmare for people living in WHs: let's say you have 30 signatures (Ladar, Radar, WHs, etc.). You pinpoint them all, and assign each one his own classification. Fine, you are good only for the next 24 hours, because every day after DT you need to pinpoint again each signature to know what is what regarding new IDs. So my request is: once a signature spawn for the first time, just let that signature have his own ID for its entire lifetime. Today a ladar site spawn under RTY-967 ID, ok, let RTY-967 be that ladar site until someone clear it, or it despawn for whatever reason
In the pipeline are CORP bookmarks
***** Signature may appear without warning! ***** Please do not feed the trolls, it builds dependency.
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Mutnin
Amarr Mutineers
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Posted - 2011.05.23 20:41:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Lady Spank
If it hasn't been made clear enough already: Look at the signal strengths and also their rough locations. An initial scan will show you a large amount of duds and a small number of potentials, after which it takes little time to work out the wormholes from the rest.
If you haven't narrowed it down, at a minimum, five potentials out of 20 sigs in system after one scan then you aren't very good at interpreting scan results.
I usually find at least one wormhole in my first two proper scans.
Expecting to be able to ignore all signatures but wormholes, or even all but Unknowns is horribly lazy. Pre-Apocrypha; efficient scannning used to be nigh on an art form and having the ability to reliably find high-end plexes for 0.0 alliances made you a very desirable corp member. Since Apocrypha any mofo with basic astrometric skills can find nigh on every single site with barely any technical skill required. Expecting it to be dumbed down further is shameful.
Most of my probing back then was with combat probes and probing ships, but TBH I never had much trouble probing out sites Pre-Apocrypha.
To me this change isn't about dumbing down the game, but rather making something less tedious & time consuming. I could really give a crap about any sig other than WH's. Occasionally I might run a mag or radar site but that's very rare.
I'm just looking for WH's to pew pew and I don't want to spend 10 mins every one I jump into looking for the next exit. Call it lazy or what ever, but honestly does everything in this game really need to be a tedious grind?
Is the "alt" key addition for probing dumbing down the game, because you no longer have to move each probe 1 by 1? Na that's an improvement and yes it made the game easier. That's all asking for here is a improvement for those of us that aren't interested in other sig types.
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theocratis
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Posted - 2011.05.23 21:08:00 -
[44]
you are doing it wrong. two tips if you didn't know already:
1. bring a friend 2. when starting set probes to 8 AU and place one probe per celestial (or set 16 AU and put it in the middle if you have a cluster of planets close to the star)
you can out scan people using covops with you in a badger with sisters probes if you know what you are doing and have your astro skills up to around 4 3 3 3
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Covert Kitty
Amarr ISK Solutions SRS.
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Posted - 2011.05.23 21:12:00 -
[45]
Your just bad at scanning. There are a variety of ways to find and scan things down quickly. Some wormhole types are more likely to be found at certain strengths, etc. Scanning from the inside out is often better depending on what your trying to do.
It's fine as it is.
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FlameGlow
Gypsy Band
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Posted - 2011.05.23 21:27:00 -
[46]
Yes, I agree, it's too hard to find exits in all this clutter of signatures. Lets' make it easier, heck, let's put them on overview for all to see, right next to a small a circle and triangle icon to clearly distinguish from other objects, oh wait.... |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion RONA Directorate
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Posted - 2011.05.23 21:32:00 -
[47]
WTF is j-space? I know k-space and w-space, but no j-space
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Mutnin
Amarr Mutineers
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Posted - 2011.05.23 22:08:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Mutnin on 23/05/2011 22:09:28
Originally by: Covert Kitty Your just bad at scanning. There are a variety of ways to find and scan things down quickly. Some wormhole types are more likely to be found at certain strengths, etc. Scanning from the inside out is often better depending on what your trying to do.
It's fine as it is.
I wouldn't say bad at probing as I can probe stuff pretty fast, specially ships . Maybe bad at reading the sig strengths.
I typically go for the highest strength sigs first, but it seems like by doing that I always find tons of Ladar/Grav sites and after they are narrowed out I start finding the WH's.
The newest approach I've been using, is to set my probes at 4au and probe each planet and that seems to narrow it down a bit faster because I typically get my 25% sig hits on most things with this method with-in 1 scan.
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rock crawlermne
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Posted - 2011.05.23 22:16:00 -
[49]
I would tell you whats wrong...but others have said if perfectly clear.
Originally by: Covert Kitty Your just bad at scanning. There are a variety of ways to find and scan things down quickly. It's fine as it is.
Originally by: Des Jardin Wormholes are working as intended.
I suggest becoming a student of the game instead of just an inhabitant.
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
You sir are doing it WRONG.
BTW, a lil hint for you, youngster....if you use more then 4 scanner probes, you'll scan the system faster. also, use an actual SCAN SHIP.
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Wen Jaibao
Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2011.05.23 23:56:00 -
[50]
Scanning sigs is easy. Even in wormhole space. The only time i /sigh is when i see a dozen or more sigs that are of equal size to the static.
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Apollo Gabriel
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2011.05.24 00:08:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk WTF is j-space? I know k-space and w-space, but no j-space
clearly you don't as all W-space systems are labelled JXYZ123 etc.
***** Signature may appear without warning! ***** Please do not feed the trolls, it builds dependency.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2011.05.24 01:00:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Tres Farmer on 24/05/2011 01:01:59
Originally by: Sgiliy *snip* Now I am not saying that this change should take place in known space. I am simply suggesting that this could be a great fix for worm hole- and it would make moving around so much easier, and less of a boring scan fest. Thoughts, Ideas, Flame?
You do know that this will kill w-space small gang/solo pvp, right?
Look at losec. There you can roam as fast as you can warp to the next gate and 'find' targets..
What?
There are no targets in losec?
You might ask yourself why that is and why w-space has some for you.
Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody! |
Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.05.24 01:15:00 -
[53]
As much as I would like for wormhole sigs to be easier to scan, I want W-space to continue to be take a bit more skill. One of my characters has been a casual - semi-serious explorer for over two years and sometimes wormholes and connected w-space systems are tempting places to check out.
The list of cosmic signatures is daunting at first. Yet, as others have posted above, narrowing things down by removing the obvious ladar and grav sites helps in a big way. Recently, I used this method to significantly reduce probing time to find an exit wormhole.
As with many things in EVE, looking at a problem from a different angle can produce good results.
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Matuk Grymwal
Firebird Squadron Terra-Incognita
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Posted - 2011.05.24 02:56:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Daneel Trevize
Originally by: JeanMichel Bizarre
Originally by: Daneel Trevize http://wormnav.com/...
What's all this about different size sigs? Anywhere I can further read up on this? I'm unfamiliar with a lot of what you're saying.
Quote: Welcome to WormNav If you are a first time user or new to wormholes please refer to to this tutorial and the help section to get you started
Sig Size's Explained
Awesome, always something new learn, thanks for the link Daneel. Amazing that someone posts such a useful nugget of info that gives people what they're asking for and yet still complain.
Personally I think the scanning system is really quite good. It's one of those systems where skill points and fitting play there part, but is hugely affected by technique. My skills/fit have remained unchanged since I joined a WH corp, but my scan times have become massively reduced due to better technique. Scanning down any one, individual sig only takes me a min these days, if that.
Living in WH space should be challenging I think, the mechanisms are already there for people to make their scanning lives easier.
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Wrayeth
EdgeGamers
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Posted - 2011.05.24 03:02:00 -
[55]
I think the wormhole scanning mechanics are perfectly fine. TBH, I wouldn't have said that prior to the patch last Thursday that allows you to move your probes around a center point by holding ALT, thus preventing you from having to redo your probe formation EVERY FRICKING TIME you reduce the scan distance. It was still do-able, previously, but very time consuming and felt like wasted effort. (This isn't to say I wouldn't do it anyway; wormhole space is just about the only place left with decent solo and small gang PvP.) -Wrayeth --> Insert Useless Signature Here <-- |
Gordon Muller
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Posted - 2011.05.24 13:25:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Gordon Muller on 24/05/2011 13:26:03 Edited
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Gil Roland
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Posted - 2011.05.24 13:27:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
Originally by: Gil Roland Edited by: Gil Roland on 23/05/2011 11:25:17 I live in a WH, and basically agree with the request of a common WH signature. I go further in this discussion, and add another request: once a signature spawn, whatever signature it is, why don't let that signature have its ID assigned for all its lifetime? I mean, right now ID signatures change after each DT. This is just a nightmare for people living in WHs: let's say you have 30 signatures (Ladar, Radar, WHs, etc.). You pinpoint them all, and assign each one his own classification. Fine, you are good only for the next 24 hours, because every day after DT you need to pinpoint again each signature to know what is what regarding new IDs. So my request is: once a signature spawn for the first time, just let that signature have his own ID for its entire lifetime. Today a ladar site spawn under RTY-967 ID, ok, let RTY-967 be that ladar site until someone clear it, or it despawn for whatever reason
In the pipeline are CORP bookmarks
Oh really? That means someone else scanning for you, thats why you don't get my point, at all. It's just a non-sense to change cosmic signatures names/IDs every day, keeps only you going on the same task with the same signatures again and again and again and again.
It's like today your name is Mark, tomorrow it's changed to John, in a couple of days your Mom will call you, going: Alfred! Come here Alfred! NOW!, in three days your favorite chupa chups dealer will ask you the money u owe him from the last month, going: You better pay, Andrew, or no more chupa chups for you. The fourth day, your best friend will greet you, going: What the hell, George! WHY u keep changing name every day man?? <--- That's the point
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Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.05.24 14:12:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Gil Roland words about keeping signature designators the same for their lifetime.
/signed.
For any signature that survives the DT restart, the ID should remain static.
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MasterEnt
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Posted - 2011.05.24 16:16:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Astroka Edited by: Astroka on 23/05/2011 04:24:35
Originally by: Sader Rykane
Originally by: Barkaial Starfinder Unknowns are WH.
Thank you for proving my theory that just because you do something all the time ("expert/professional") does not mean you are doing it correctly.
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Holdout
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Posted - 2011.05.26 18:53:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Jack Tronic
Originally by: Holdout
Originally by: Jack Tronic
Originally by: Roime CCP please make wormhole sigs 90% weaker and introduce blank sigs
...or any other fix necessary to keep these lazy pansies in k-space optimizing their isk/hr ratios
This!
I have entire chains scanned out within minutes instead of these lazy nubs whining about it's too hard. There's a method to everything, probing is not excluded. There are tricks to locate wormholes in 60 sig systems instantly. Stop being daft and dumb and start learning. There's reasons theres no definitive "guide" on it because it all becomes gut instinct, also why help complete idiots when you can help yourself instead?
douche
Yep, my actual corp title on my main is indeed Douche! Spai.
In other news, you sound like a person that would be RAGEQUIT mad after failing to have a "diplomatic" convo asking for your corp to be blue in whspace because wormholers are apparently supposed to help each other and love each other. Just recalling a certain hilarious incident in the past from people who really expect to be babied all the way through eve.
What is this I don't even
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