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Mister Kwong
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Posted - 2011.05.25 18:16:00 -
[1]
Ok- so I've tried to kill a PVE-fitted drake that was ratting inside a WH and failed. This is the second time. I am using 220 autocannon myrm with dual reppers. The guy had me into hull before I had to warp out. What am I doing wrong? I had warp disruptor and was kiting him around 7-10KM. Should I be further out to lessen the damage? I know Drakes have amazing tanks but am amazed I couldn't tank his damage longer.
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Calfis
Amarr Fukushima Industries Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2011.05.25 18:19:00 -
[2]
Did you have any Gyrostabilizers?
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Zyress
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Posted - 2011.05.25 18:30:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Zyress on 25/05/2011 18:32:40 If you want to kite a ratting pve fit drake then start kiting at about 70 kms so in otherwords your autocannons can't hit him from where you need to be to kite him.At least distance wise, your best damage mitigation at ranges you can hit from is speed
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Metal Icarus
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.05.25 18:48:00 -
[4]
A pve fit WH ratting drake? The only difference between that and a pvp drake is that it has more tank and no point and web.
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.25 19:18:00 -
[5]
a pve drake in a wh can tank up to 900 sustained rainbow damage if you dont neut it.
There is no ****ing way a myrm can put out that kind of DPS with 5 cannons and a neut.
I doubt that the drakes you faced had 900 omnitank, but I am sure they had enough to tank your what, 3-400 dps? With no neut you ain't crackin it. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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Mister Kwong
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Posted - 2011.05.25 19:27:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Mister Kwong on 25/05/2011 19:28:06
Originally by: Cipher Jones a pve drake in a wh can tank up to 900 sustained rainbow damage if you dont neut it.
There is no ****ing way a myrm can put out that kind of DPS with 5 cannons and a neut.
I doubt that the drakes you faced had 900 omnitank, but I am sure they had enough to tank your what, 3-400 dps? With no neut you ain't crackin it.
I had one medium neut but perhaps I should go with 2 neuts and 2 webifiers instead?
Or shall I go with a shield cane? And fit an afterburner and mitigate damage by kiting at range?
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Von Kroll
Caldari Kroll's Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.25 19:46:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Von Kroll on 25/05/2011 19:49:47
Originally by: Mister Kwong I had one medium neut but perhaps I should go with 2 neuts and 2 webifiers instead?
There's really no such thing as kiting a Drake. You can speed tank the missiles perhaps, but not kite. If you're in a Myrm, best thing to do is get in his face with a scram/web, and get after it. Don't worry about neuting down the invul's if its going to take away from DPS. Just maximize gank and go. Don't use Gal or Cal drones.
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Dark Pangolin
Caldari Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
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Posted - 2011.05.25 19:52:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Dark Pangolin on 25/05/2011 19:54:02
Originally by: Mister Kwong Edited by: Mister Kwong on 25/05/2011 19:28:06
Originally by: Cipher Jones a pve drake in a wh can tank up to 900 sustained rainbow damage if you dont neut it.
There is no ****ing way a myrm can put out that kind of DPS with 5 cannons and a neut.
I doubt that the drakes you faced had 900 omnitank, but I am sure they had enough to tank your what, 3-400 dps? With no neut you ain't crackin it.
I had one medium neut but perhaps I should go with 2 neuts and 2 webifiers instead?
Or shall I go with a shield cane? And fit an afterburner and mitigate damage by kiting at range?
The gods of the Forums deleted my long post and I don't ant to retype it...in short...
You can NOT kite an HML Drake. A shield cane fit for gank with 2 neuts and ecm drones should win out vs a ratting drake once you neut away his hardeners.
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.25 20:43:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Von Kroll Edited by: Von Kroll on 25/05/2011 19:49:47
Originally by: Mister Kwong I had one medium neut but perhaps I should go with 2 neuts and 2 webifiers instead?
There's really no such thing as kiting a Drake. You can speed tank the missiles perhaps, but not kite. If you're in a Myrm, best thing to do is get in his face with a scram/web, and get after it. Don't worry about neuting down the invul's if its going to take away from DPS. Just maximize gank and go. Don't use Gal or Cal drones.
That method will invariably fail against a proper pve drake as it (any solo myrm) puts out less DPS than the drake can take.
OP, depends on he situation. If it is a PvE purger drake you have to be able to do more damage per second than his tank can hold AND be able to tank more damage he can put out. You will *need* neuts for this.
OR
If its a buffer drake, you have to be able to put out more total damage than his EHP BEFORE he can deplete YOUR defenses. You will not need neuts for this. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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Mister Kwong
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Posted - 2011.05.26 02:06:00 -
[10]
Thanks for the responses so far as they have been helpful. A couple of follow ups;
Is there a way to determine how the drake is fitted with regards to its tank and DPS by simply looking at it?
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Lix Titrax
Daedal Anomaly
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Posted - 2011.05.26 05:13:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Mister Kwong Thanks for the responses so far as they have been helpful. A couple of follow ups;
Is there a way to determine how the drake is fitted with regards to its tank and DPS by simply looking at it?
The easiest way to find out is to go out with either and expendable scanning ship or covert ops fitted with a Ship Scanner. Quickly get a scan of his setup and then bugout and use the information to your advantage. You also might be able to find the same information on public killboards via the API.
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John Freehill
Gallente Viscosity -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.05.26 09:04:00 -
[12]
Change to more dps, blaster Brutix maybe also if its a drake, chances are it will use Kin missiles, but im sure he would have other ones in cargo. |
Daneel Trevize
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.26 09:18:00 -
[13]
T2 Gal ships have a great natural resist to the drake's kinetic damage, and if they're PvE they're unlikely to have stocked any other kind of missiles. With this and the nature of w-space, you should be able to drop a fairly gank-heavy blaster setup on their face, but those drakes can still have a stupid tank, even if you can handle their dps with 1 MAR. |
Aloe Cloveris
The Greater Goon
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Posted - 2011.05.26 12:27:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Aloe Cloveris on 26/05/2011 12:31:17 Edited by: Aloe Cloveris on 26/05/2011 12:29:22
Originally by: Mister Kwong Thanks for the responses so far as they have been helpful. A couple of follow ups;
Is there a way to determine how the drake is fitted with regards to its tank and DPS by simply looking at it?
No, you can't see the missile launchers (there's only two types a Drake would fit anyhow) and the only effect you'll see is the Invulnerability Field effect (unless they're active tanking, in which case by all means get in there and kill that abomination).
A few things that might have helped (some are obvious, I know):
2x Ogres, 2x Hammerheads, and a Hobgoblin to squeeze max dps from the drones/bandwidth. Keep an eye on their health and retract/redeploy as needed.
Drone Interfacing skill to IV or, better yet, V (20% more damage from your drones per level)
Comat Drone Operation and drone skills in general (pretty obvious stuff here)
Battlecruiser skill (10% more damage from your drones + 10% stronger armor reps per level)
Standard Exile booster (+20% repair amount and isn't affected by module stacking penalties - illegal to carry in empire highsec, but you can pop a dose in station and go on your merry way. Winners use drugs.)
Gyrostab(s) and a variety pack of Republic Fleet EMP+Phased Plasma+Fusion ammo (start with EMP vs. Drakes to exploit the anticipated EM hole. Take 10 seconds to reload to Phased Plasma if they appear to have overcompensated for that EM hole)
Thermodynamics/Overheating (if he seems to be hovering at peak recharge, that temporary +15% turret dps might be just enough to break through. Overheating your armor reps gives you both repair amount and cycle time bonuses.)
Navy Cap Boosters (they are considerably smaller than regular cap charges, meaning you can carry more for extended engagements)
Neuts might have helped to shut off his hardeners, but in a wormhole people often use passive shield hardeners to keep their resists up under sleeper neuts. Also, there might've been wormhole effects that benefited him (e.g. Pulsar system) and adversely affected you. |
Triskie
Caldari Dead Cat Explorations
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Posted - 2011.05.26 13:41:00 -
[15]
I dont mean to hi-jack the thread but i have a similar question to the OP's. I am always seeing lone Drakes in wormhole space and have wondered what ships i would need to take them down?
Would an Ishtar stacked up on kinetic resists work. Something like this? [Ishtar] Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Magnetic Membrane II Medium Armor Repairer II Medium Armor Repairer II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator Warp Scrambler II X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator 10MN Afterburner II
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S Medium Energy Neutralizer II Small Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Ogre II x5
I am a beginner PVP'er so this is a wild guess type of set-up
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Shawnee Apol
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Posted - 2011.05.26 15:10:00 -
[16]
A passive tank drake will easily kill your drones and your remaining weapons are not going to even dent his tank.
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bartos100
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.05.26 16:43:00 -
[17]
i have no idea how good it would work but what about a set of ECM drones ?
that should cut down on the dps but it would cut your dps as well
and neuts might help if he runs active hardners
a max tanked drake doesn't have mutch cap recharge so he might be running full passive in that case neuts do nothing
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Von Kroll
Caldari Kroll's Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.26 17:03:00 -
[18]
Originally by: bartos100
and neuts might help if he runs active hardners
Remember that an Invul II still provides 12-15% shield resists when offline (depending on how much training time your target invests in the passive tank skills). Given the inherent resists of the Drake, plus 2 offline Invul II, the difference in tank is not decisive.
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Shawnee Apol
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Posted - 2011.05.26 17:20:00 -
[19]
Even if it was capped out, 3 small blasters isn't going to be enough damage to do anything to a passive tank drake. If you trade for ECM drones, you'll just be at a stalemate without extra dps.
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Evolution1979
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Posted - 2011.05.26 17:27:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Shawnee Apol Even if it was capped out, 3 small blasters isn't going to be enough damage to do anything to a passive tank drake. If you trade for ECM drones, you'll just be at a stalemate without extra dps.
Uhm............why are people talking about capping out a pve drake? It most likely is passive tanked anyway. And missiles dont use cap either. In other words.............neuting a drake is fail!
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Shawnee Apol
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Posted - 2011.05.26 18:51:00 -
[21]
Because if that active hardner goes down, they become that much more squishy, especially if they're using more than one hardner. Also, if it is capped out, it's not going to run anywhere which makes a point unnecessary. Passive tank drakes hardly have any cap and if you cap them out, they're going to take a long time to get any of it back. Try engaging your brain before your mouth or in this case, your fingers.
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Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.05.27 07:45:00 -
[22]
Originally by: bartos100 i have no idea how good it would work but what about a set of ECM drones ?
that should cut down on the dps but it would cut your dps as well
and neuts might help if he runs active hardners
a max tanked drake doesn't have mutch cap recharge so he might be running full passive in that case neuts do nothing
That's what a Drake pilot going into PvP should do - go nearly full passive. Sure, you're not getting as much resist, but you basically take neuts off the table.
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Halbert Vector
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Posted - 2011.05.27 10:58:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Shawnee Apol if it is capped out, it's not going to run anywhere which makes a point unnecessary.
I've been playing eve for about a year now and I've never seen a ship fail to warp because it had too little cap. Even if you have a tiny fraction of a cap point left that's still enough to propel you thousands of kilometres
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Concubinia Scarlett
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Posted - 2011.05.27 14:58:00 -
[24]
To be honest, to kill a drake reliably you need to be looking at a batleship, pve fit drakes can outlast/outank pretty much anything else in the BC category. A decent dps fit tier 1 BS, typhoon, geddon or domi etc fit will tear one apart pretty quickly. Failing that you can do amazing things in a stealth bomber nowadays, there are some great tutorials out there for killing bigger ships while solo.
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Malkev
GRUMPS RESEARCH TEAM
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Posted - 2011.05.27 15:41:00 -
[25]
Are you engaging the Drake while there are still Sleepers left in the anom?
If there are, you're now dealing with the DPS from the Drake as well as the DPS, nuets, and webs from Sleepers as they tend to switch targets to any new additions to an anom.
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.27 23:14:00 -
[26]
Quote: Uhm............why are people talking about capping out a pve drake? It most likely is passive tanked anyway. And missiles dont use cap either. In other words.............neuting a drake is fail! Laughing
lol.
Quote: I've been playing eve for about a year now and I've never seen a ship fail to warp because it had too little cap.
double lol. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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Monstress
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Posted - 2011.05.27 23:15:00 -
[27]
This is tough to say. There could have been w-space effects that were nerfing you or buffing him (or both). Also, as mentioned, WH drakes generally tank up to 900-1000 omni-DPS ... however if you can take him down it's usually worth the killmail, since it's often fitted with juicy things like T2 rigs and such.
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Monstress
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Posted - 2011.05.27 23:18:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Halbert Vector
Originally by: Shawnee Apol if it is capped out, it's not going to run anywhere which makes a point unnecessary.
I've been playing eve for about a year now and I've never seen a ship fail to warp because it had too little cap. Even if you have a tiny fraction of a cap point left that's still enough to propel you thousands of kilometres
This is true. You can warp off grid without cap (assuming you aren't pointed), you simply won't get to where it is you were originally trying to warp to.
Although I think once upon a time this wasn't always true.
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Wilddragon25
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Posted - 2011.05.28 04:41:00 -
[29]
At one time being capped out meant that you couldn't warp or anything, I beleive it was changed with the NOS nerf, basicly making the triple rep domi non existent.
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Apollo Gabriel
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2011.05.29 00:52:00 -
[30]
I've had this happen twice, a pure PVE drake can't kill you due to no point and you will have a hard time killing it, period. If he had any less tank, you'd have gotten him in time. I assume you killed his drones, and did as much EM damage as you could, if not, start there.
Best, AG
***** Signature may appear without warning! ***** Please do not feed the trolls, it builds dependency.
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