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Laughlyn Vaughns	Posted - 2005.02.13 20:44:00 - [1] Anyone know when these might start appearing on Escrow/Market. Am thinking these coupled up with Pandemonium or Caldari Navy Ballistic Control it wud make a deadly Raven setup
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2005.02.13 20:46:00 - [2] You mean stock sieges and stock Ballistic Controls isnt deadly enough yet? /Elve New Video out! Watch me!
CmdrRat	Posted - 2005.02.13 21:40:00 - [3] Dev's have said tech two launchers and missils will not be released untill missiles recive balancing (i.e. nurfing) so that they don't do equal dmg to frigs and BS just like turrets. Once that happens the BPO will be droped by reserch agents slowly, then they will be built for friends of the builders or sold via an auction for a while to get as much money for each one they can. So expect the first ones to hit the market a few weeks after a patch to fix missiles is released. ________________________________________________ Except for Ending Slavery, Fascism and communism, War Has Never Solved Anything
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2005.02.13 22:05:00 - [4] you mean Torp will not hit frig @ 500 like it does on BS? this is so unrealistic. Frig got weak armor and get hitted lightly more then BS? mini-BS variants? -=-
CmdrRat	Posted - 2005.02.13 22:12:00 - [5] I think CCP wants it so a BS will not totaly own a frig on 3 seconds. Look at turrets, a few months ago they where changs so a large turret can't hit a frig unless it's at long range or both are setting still. They havn't explained how they are going to do it but the same type of change is expected for missiles. ________________________________________________ Except for Ending Slavery, Fascism and communism, War Has Never Solved Anything
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.02.13 22:14:00 - [6] Limiting missile agility according to the target they are intended to be used against would make most sense to attain mroe balance. So ofc that's not how it's going to pan out come the patch. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.02.13 22:46:00 - [7] Caldari bs are pain in the ass... raven mostly... cannot be truly jammed, cannot be tackled and kill any cruiser in seconds. Other bs-s cannot kill smaller ships all that fast...
theRaptor	Posted - 2005.02.13 23:51:00 - [8] Originally by: LUKEC Caldari bs are pain in the ass... raven mostly... cannot be truly jammed, cannot be tackled and kill any cruiser in seconds. Other bs-s cannot kill smaller ships all that fast... Unless they have drones. Or shed loads of drones in the Domi's case --------------------------------------------------
Kayosoni	Posted - 2005.02.14 00:10:00 - [9] It's what makes the raven useful. I'd rather have my battleship moderately useful agaisnt everything (more survivability) than only useful against other battleships. Raven has a lot less damage output than other battleships atm. ----------------------------------- Currently Playing Lineage 2 - Erica Server
Laughlyn Vaughns	Posted - 2005.02.14 00:36:00 - [10] well Stocks are pretty decent but the Siege II has same firing rate but more capacity, the Caldari Navy system wud make a nice addition to any ship especially an extra 12.5% damage multi. am sure when they finally get released they'll cost a fortune. may have to keep an eye out tho. wud make a mean Raven setup just hope they dont make it so that a kestrel/caracal will be able to take em on
Lallante	Posted - 2005.02.14 01:20:00 - [11] Quote: Raven has a lot less damage output than other battleships atm. WTF??? Lall - THE Vocal Minority - ShinRa
Grimpak	Posted - 2005.02.14 02:23:00 - [12] Quote: Raven has a lot less damage output than other battleships atm. ...as lall said: WTF? yeah, in fleet battles ravens are a bit useless due to the range of the fight. in there you might be right... but a torp raven at 5km or even 10 is smth that I don't want to fight without propper backup... ------------------- Quote: Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
Naal Morno	Posted - 2005.02.14 05:04:00 - [13] Edited by: Naal Morno on 14/02/2005 05:07:38 Edited by: Naal Morno on 14/02/2005 05:06:16 A word on how they will nerf missiles. They will use some new blast resolution value (Which will get assigned to each type of missiles) and use it to divide target's signature with (then it will get somehow adjusted to make sense as a value between 0 and 1). Outcome will then be multplied by a normal damage you'd do as it is today. This is, as according to devs, agility changes to missiles are very hard or impossible to code.... In short, cruise vs frigate = moderate FRIGATE level damage, you will have to use light or heavy missiles to cope with frigates, much like turret based ships must now. It might even be you will make more damage with smaller missiles, mostly due to launcher's RoF difference. Your Heavy Neutron Blaster II perfectly strikes Serpentis Chief Sentinel, wrecking for 660.4 damage.
Uggs386	Posted - 2005.02.14 06:23:00 - [14] ummmmmm. Large turrets cant hit frigs, which world you living in. Geddon with 2 tracking comps= insta pop for any frig, and dont need any tracking comps to hit cruisers.
Shadowsword	Posted - 2005.02.14 07:43:00 - [15] Originally by: Uggs386 ummmmmm. Large turrets cant hit frigs, which world you living in. Geddon with 2 tracking comps= insta pop for any frig, and dont need any tracking comps to hit cruisers. WTB: Arma with Mega Pulses and tracking comps that can hit a frig orbiting at 15km.
Mr Wales	Posted - 2005.02.14 08:05:00 - [16] Originally by: Shadowsword Originally by: Uggs386 ummmmmm. Large turrets cant hit frigs, which world you living in. Geddon with 2 tracking comps= insta pop for any frig, and dont need any tracking comps to hit cruisers. WTB: Arma with Mega Pulses and tracking comps that can hit a frig orbiting at 15km. frigate outside of 40km is dead to an arma.
Mr Wales	Posted - 2005.02.14 08:11:00 - [17] Originally by: Lallante Quote: Raven has a lot less damage output than other battleships atm. WTF??? Well close up a Raven with Torps is deadly...but if there is any ship in eve that needs to be nerfed it's the Armageddon and mega pulses.
Henka	Posted - 2005.02.14 08:33:00 - [18] please dont many any comparisson with geddons with mp... they are just out of this world when it comes to balance. compare with ANY size M or L rail or blasters (or projs) and you will se, any frigg even thinking orbit will survive, unless now mwd straight line towards/from you :P
Rex Martell	Posted - 2005.02.14 08:56:00 - [19] If there is to be missile balancing (nerf) for cruise and torp v cruisers and frigs Then the time to target delay needs to be reduced accordingly and the Raven needs to have its cap fixed. "The object of war is not to die for your corp, but to make the other b@##@#d die for his"
Liam Fremen	Posted - 2005.02.14 10:58:00 - [20] Edited by: Liam Fremen on 14/02/2005 11:02:04 WTB: Apoc with Mega Pulses and tracking comps that can hit a frig orbiting at 15km. Dude, i give u a simple exemple: Lvl4 Silent the Informant: Raven, first gate, spam torpedo for remove the stupid initial supreme drone, the enemy approach, u destroy them, finish off the 2nd supreme drone and than go on matriarch, first gate done. Apocalypse with 6 megapulse + 2 siege launcher with cruise, 2 large acco etc, first gate, u arrive, and destroy the supreme drone without many trouble, u begin targetting the damn frigate near u, the stupid violator etc, u can't hit them, they are too far for webber and too near for hit them, u try to attack the more far ship with ur mega and radio while using cruise on the nearby frigate, those damn cruise don't make enought damage and takes a wile for kill them, if u use torp with 750m/s speed of them u take ages... u should have killed some of the incoming ship, but unlukly, u are not able to shot the "right" number of torp x target and watch them blow at 40km from u all togheter, so u have more enemy near u, and the 2nd supreme drone begins broking balls, u have a lot of ship around of u and u don't have the firewpower for destroy them, beacause ur megapulse can't hit them at 12-15km while orbiting fast.... U must broke ur balls and kill all them with cruise, and the 2nd supreme drone with megapulse... This should give u a "little" idea on whi balancing is needed FOR REX: u mean the raven don't have at least cap? well i think the ppl have a big problem. they think thath a tank is good if u can keep ur "repair" or "booster" online forever.... maybe u should think at something different ^_^ like using ur booster until u have cap and wait while ur cap come back and shield go down
Ithildin	Posted - 2005.02.14 11:19:00 - [21] Originally by: Laughlyn Vaughns Anyone know when these might start appearing on Escrow/Market. Am thinking these coupled up with Pandemonium or Caldari Navy Ballistic Control it wud make a deadly Raven setup They'll come when CCP has fixed Raven's ability to hit targets too small for them. And this at about the same time when cruise missiles become long range weapons with rather nifty speeds. Hopefully they'll do something about the blasters at the same time, as Torps will only become better against BShips (thus ruining the Mega/Raven close range balance even more)... -- If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please.
Aequitas Veritas	Posted - 2005.02.14 11:56:00 - [22] Im just scared of what's going to keep us from seeing all inties squads again once the missiles are nerfed. Whats the point in having a bs unless youre attacking a pos or capturable station when a squad of frigs will do the same job just as well. They travel fast, they warp faster, do enough damage to take down a bs in a very short amount of time when in a small group... I believe that frig class ships will with these changes soon have too many pro's compared to bs sized ships. In a BS vs BS balancing when it comes to frigs, remember that at range any Gun ship will basically instakill a frigate, but if you do a signature based approach to the problem then missiles will do that same damage at any range and thus at long distances also do low damage where the gun based ships would do full damage, if missiles are nerfed hard. So dont say that CMs should do very little damage etc... If you want to balance the battleships ability to kill frigs, increase tracking of drones some (why shouldnt they all be able to hit frigs), remove dronebay on ravens and scorpions so the Caldari bs only have their missiles to defend vs frigs and maybe increase the amount of drones the other bs could hold in their cargohold alltogether (PvE perspective). At short range all nonecaldari would have to rely on their drones for defence, caldari their missiles and at long range caldari would use missiles and other bs their guns. This could come together with a slighly lowered damage output of CMs and Torps against frigs.
Ithildin	Posted - 2005.02.14 12:06:00 - [23] Aequitas Veritas, you're not getting it. Tackling a Raven is suicide. It's not a thing you do even if your in a group WITH battleships! Ravens need to be given the same treatment as the other battleships, which incidentally aren't too often taken down by small squads of interceptors! Drones hurt badly on smaller ships. Nosferatus hurt, as do webifiers. It's much more a fault that CCP decided to increase interceptor damage instead of increase their own role (catching and holding stuff in place), which is a bloody shame. -- If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please.
Cinnander	Posted - 2005.02.14 12:08:00 - [24] Edited by: Cinnander on 14/02/2005 12:10:25 Guess it comes down to what you prefer to fly then: Some huge, world-wrecking behemoth that is ideal for slugging it out across fleet battles, capturing stations or - as you so casually put it - Attacking a POS (read; warp in, die); Or alternately you could fly a [Heavy Assault ]Cruiser, [Assault ]Frigate, Interceptor BTW just because torps (and maybe CMs) won't be able to hit frigates, why does that suddently render battleships useless? There are alternatives [cough Gankageddon :)] And don't ravens have two turret slots? WHAT in the world could THEY be useful for?!!1112?!eleven ><))))¦> This is fishy .. You know what to do.
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.02.14 12:09:00 - [25] Originally by: Aequitas Veritas Im just scared of what's going to keep us from seeing all inties squads again once the missiles are nerfed. They are planning to increase BS hitpoints to make it harder for inty gank squads to kill battleships. Death to the Galante
Kaeten	Posted - 2005.02.14 12:22:00 - [26] hehe, can't w8 till they nerf missles and megapulses. This game be alot more fun ___________________________________ Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante
Aequitas Veritas	Posted - 2005.02.14 12:48:00 - [27] Originally by: Ithildin Aequitas Veritas, you're not getting it. Tackling a Raven is suicide. It's not a thing you do even if your in a group WITH battleships! Then we really do fight different types of combat cause I get tackled all the time when I'm in a Raven. Maybe its cause you dont engage in bigger battles but ppl sure tackle ravens in the battles I've been fighting since xmas and u usually go boom before you're done locking whoever is scrambling. Originally by: Ithildin Ravens need to be given the same treatment as the other battleships, which incidentally aren't too often taken down by small squads of interceptors! Drones hurt badly on smaller ships. Nosferatus hurt, as do webifiers. It's much more a fault that CCP decided to increase interceptor damage instead of increase their own role (catching and holding stuff in place), which is a bloody shame. I totally agree that CCP dumped on their own leg when Inties were given increased damage output, in my opinion they shouldnt have any damage bonuses. But as I did state in my post, damage reduction there should be on missiles, I'm sorry if it came out wrong, but my post was ment as a "dont nerf them too much" post - Not at "dont nerf them at all" post. But when you say that small groups of inties very seldom take down bs you're not playing the game im playing. Neither do you take into account how much more dominant these groups will be on the battlefield if missiles are nerfed too much. I agree that increased HP changes will probably make this problem much smaller if not totally remove it. But that is IF the hp changes take effect at all. There are loads of balancing problems related to it like, tanking vs untanked, passive shield recharge rate, gun firepower vs cap use and so on... Would be a very welcome addition the game and gets my vote if they can make it balanced. Oh, and whoever said the last two gun slots on the raven... Try put two small guns, with no bonuses at all and try and kill a frig, then compare that to an assult launcher that most other battleships can fit for anti frig defence and maybe you'll see why that is a very silly suggestion... And whoever said somethign about a Webbifier. If you use a web on a Raven will it then missiles do more damage if its signature radius dependent? Nope. Would it on guns? yes. Could all guns track it at close range? Nope. But you get the point. Balancing, all I'm saying...
Matthew	Posted - 2005.02.14 13:15:00 - [28] Originally by: Rod Blaine Limiting missile agility according to the target they are intended to be used against would make most sense to attain mroe balance. So ofc that's not how it's going to pan out come the patch. Probably cause that's what they tried to do last time they looked at missiles, and it broke the missile physics engine horribly. What we'll probably see is some sort of damage scaling to simulate the larger missiles having to go for a proximity-burst kill rather than a skin-to-skin kill. Originally by: Kayosoni Raven has a lot less damage output than other battleships atm. You obviously haven't run into a decent raven setup then. The raven can mount a decent jamming spread and still do enough damage to melt an apoc tank very quickly. Originally by: Aequitas Veritas Im just scared of what's going to keep us from seeing all inties squads again once the missiles are nerfed. Whats the point in having a bs unless youre attacking a pos or capturable station when a squad of frigs will do the same job just as well. They travel fast, they warp faster, do enough damage to take down a bs in a very short amount of time when in a small group... I believe that frig class ships will with these changes soon have too many pro's compared to bs sized ships. And what happens when said group of inties meet a similar sized group of BS? That's going to be a huge cloud of drones waiting to eat you alive. They can split up, so whichever bunch you go for, the other is going to be able to pick you off from range. Something people seem to forget is that players themselves are a limited resource. Sure, a large group of frigs is always going to pose a problem to the solo battleship, but that's cause you've got many more players invested in the endeavour. The big advantage of battleships has always been their superiour bang-per-player.
KrOsCo	Posted - 2005.02.14 13:44:00 - [29] IMO.... The missile change should be a good thing, if they do it right. The person who said the geddon and mega pulses should be nerfed needs to be shot. It is a HIGH risk setup that most people seem to have adopted. There is nothing wrong about the geddon itself. This gank setup can be done on almost any ship. So hush plz before we get nerf bat mania. A frig SHOULD die to a battleship. Im also sick of hearing "NO WAY, HOW DID U HIT ME WHEN U ONLY HAVE 2 TRACKING COMP II'S AND I HAVE MY MWD ON?" If a frig stands a chance against a battleship solo then i think there is something seriously wrong, or the BS pilot is a n00b. Balancing the game is a difficult task. And i think they need to seriously take a look through every part of the game, fix the bugs, get things right, before we see any new content. imo anyway.
Lagar	Posted - 2005.02.14 14:49:00 - [30] ccp.. if are going to nerf it.. only do a minor nerf on the speeds of the missiles DONT make the Damage on a Torp weaker depending on size. cause that's completly unrealistic.. a torp is suposed to do EXACTLY the same damage if not more to smaller ships, if a frigate just sits and watch a torp going towards them it's their mistake not to flee.... i mean everyone knows a frig can outrun missiles if someone fire at them.. it's balanced to a satisfactory degree.. The missile damage nerf is the worse idea in eve's history acording to my view. only thing i could acept this would be on T2 frigs cause they are T2 ships after all (armor alloys ec) but not on T1 ships

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