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Grey Stormshadow Starwreck Industries	Posted - 2011.05.26 17:36:00 - [1] Incarna facts: - We have buggy work in progress build of Incarna in duality. - The official release date is less than month away. - Most people don't even know how it will run on their computers. - Some people are still experiencing crashes, lockdowns and all kinds of graphical annoyances on character editor. - There is about unlimited number of things what can go wrong when major patch like this is deployed. CCP solution: - Lets not make it optional. - Lets hope that it will run smoothly with every clients hardware. - Lets believe that there will not be any problems. - Lets hotfix "use old hangar ui"-button to the client couple days after incarna release or revert back to old client for unspecified amount of time. ------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :)
Calathea Sata State War Academy	Posted - 2011.05.26 17:38:00 - [2] Typical of CCP. Incarna 1.0 will likely be buggy as... the Amazon rainforest (I can't even think) :CCP: :Excellence: :Deliverance: It explains everything! The unified field theory of New Eden
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.05.26 18:08:00 - [3] Edited by: Barakkus on 26/05/2011 18:07:58 I have mediocre hardware by today's standards, dual core 2.66 ghz processor, ati hd 2600 xt, 4 gigs of ram (2 gigs when I last visited duality) and it ran decently, so I don't think performance is going to be that much of an issue. It seems the cq isn't as demanding as the character creator is. - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
mkint	Posted - 2011.05.26 18:12:00 - [4] Originally by: Grey Stormshadow Incarna facts: - We have buggy work in progress build of Incarna in duality. - The official release date is less than month away. - Most people don't even know how it will run on their computers. - Some people are still experiencing crashes, lockdowns and all kinds of graphical annoyances on character editor. - There is about unlimited number of things what can go wrong when major patch like this is deployed. CCP solution: - Lets not make it optional. - Lets hope that it will run smoothly with every clients hardware. - Lets believe that there will not be any problems. - Lets hotfix "use old hangar ui"-button to the client couple days after incarna release or revert back to old client for unspecified amount of time. Standard operation procedure for CCP: CCP: Hey, we have this sooper awsum idea that will run like crap but get us new sellz! Players: um... this will break the game, make the game way less fun, and is a bad idea. You can fix it by doing X,Y,Z CCP: magik ate ball sais no! Well, accountants sais no. <fingers in ears> lalala, nonono! failscade, players lose that much more respect for CCP, the entire current customer base turns into bittervets. Minor fixes deployed 4 years later that are really just a repeat of the cycle. bittervet - (n) anyone who's gone through a CCP patch or expansion.
Captain Mung	Posted - 2011.05.26 19:15:00 - [5] Forcing Incarna down our throats instead of making it optional is moronic. A large portion of EvE's community does not even want "walking in stations" (they want to fly space ships, in a space ship game. Surprising, I know); I don't have a problem with it being implemented, but making it mandatory is beyond all stupidity (I've played with it on Duality and if I have to go through that every time I dock... good god). CCP dropped the ball with this ******ed decision.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2011.05.26 19:17:00 - [6] Edited by: MotherMoon on 26/05/2011 19:17:07 yes just like the speed nerd trinity graphics and every single other change EVER
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.05.26 19:18:00 - [7] Originally by: Captain Mung Forcing Incarna down our throats instead of making it optional is moronic. A large portion of EvE's community does not even want "walking in stations" (they want to fly space ships, in a space ship game. Surprising, I know); I don't have a problem with it being implemented, but making it mandatory is beyond all stupidity (I've played with it on Duality and if I have to go through that every time I dock... good god). CCP dropped the ball with this ******ed decision. You don't though, you can just leave your character standing there and access the normal functions of being in station with the regular station UI. - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
K'uata Sayus	Posted - 2011.05.26 19:59:00 - [8] Just maybe the same guys who made downtime into 30 minutes or less (bless 'em) are on the Incarna rollout team, ya ever think of that? I'll just go with the flow, as getting out of my pod is one of my top priorities, as my cajones really need a good scratching. EVERYONE SEEMS NORMAL UNTIL YOU GET TO KNOW THEM.
Rixiu The Inuits	Posted - 2011.05.26 20:12:00 - [9] Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 26/05/2011 19:17:07 yes just like the speed nerd trinity graphics and every single other change EVER No not really. "Just like the forums" is pretty accurate as the op already stated.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2011.05.26 20:16:00 - [10] Originally by: Rixiu Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 26/05/2011 19:17:07 yes just like the speed nerd trinity graphics and every single other change EVER No not really. "Just like the forums" is pretty accurate as the op already stated. oh **** you mean you didn't have the web changes and new graphics forced on you? damn where can I get that hack!
Calathea Sata State War Academy	Posted - 2011.05.26 20:38:00 - [11] Sorry but I must hijack this thread since the other one got locked for not CCP friendly. Originally by: Yakov Pavlov Originally by: DarkJacena I'm still frankly shocked that something this simple is being highlighted (if not the sole focus) of an 'expansion'. PI was half-done, thankfully refined so it wasn't like watching paint dry (now it's just quicker) The character creator is a huge resource hog for many, and this new itteration takes the cake. CCP has given us 4 nice looking rooms attached to your currently docked stations so you can chill and relax. Great. Sadly, no additional interaction or functionality as of yet, unless you count the mirror. Seeing Eve's layered design method, (release something half-finished, update with a 'temporary' fix resulting in a perminently flawed 'feature') -- I don't expect anything fantastic anytime soon. Why does something so simple take so much time? I'm comparing to industry standards that other 3d games have been managing for the last few years. Designing entire cityscapes, complex interiors of buildings and levels which look amazing and groundbreaking, here in 2011 -- and we get a single basic room so we can look at our ship. So many issues currently in game that need priority instead of this. Just my 2ó +1^10 .. couldn't agree more. We're getting a room with the vague promise of more in the coming months. Putting aside that stale and empty marketing line, has anyone noticed the extremely vague and nebulous plans for what comes next? I hear bars and shops ... But for discussion's sake only, let's assume that they actually implement some of the oft touted feature of ~future eve~ .. clothing shops, bars, etc. Physical locales that operate like businesses will really only thrive in locations with mass population. Thus there would be very little reason to build a bar in the vast majority of stations. Though I admit the agent change is an outlier of CCP's effort to smooth out the population in order to give these Incarna businesses some snowball's chance at relevance. The Eve economic model of commodities and trade hubs is a complete mismatch for the second-life-esque individualized item and social locale dream that is Icarna. Has anyone actually ever searched for items in Second Life? Providing a means for players to find your "SooperCaps are HAWT" tank top shop is a logistical nightmare ... hundreds and thousands of shops at different stations all with different items. And CCP just said that the old mission system was too complex. Incarna stealing the development focus from the core features of Eve is bad enough .. the insulting lies of what Incarna could be are just icing on the cake. There is no denying that Incarna will have a hard time justifying the sacrifice of four years of content development in other areas of EVE, unless it is going to rock us off our sock, but unfortunately from the current looks of it, the dull "walking in your own room by yourself" doesn't look very interesting or useful at all and on top of that, the tight schedule CCP have been pushing will only result in NEW FORUMS 2.0 i.e. a poorly tested piece of stinky slime that will either be disappointing, or disappointing. Also just want to point out that 1^10 = 1. :D It explains everything! The unified field theory of New Eden
Yakov Pavlov	Posted - 2011.05.26 20:41:00 - [12] Calathea .. reposted content in thread of its own.
Henry Haphorn Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.27 04:32:00 - [13] Quote: - We have buggy work in progress build of Incarna in duality. It's... Duality. Just like Sisi, there are always bugs. Quote: - The official release date is less than month away. Either they have everything ready for part 1 of the expansion and have plenty of confidence or they are taking the testing to the next level (which they have to anyways). Quote: - Most people don't even know how it will run on their computers. If you don't have hardware that can support shader 3.0, then you're screwed. That's all we need to know. Of course, you can't go wrong slapping an extra stick of RAM while you're at it. Quote: - Some people are still experiencing crashes, lockdowns and all kinds of graphical annoyances on character editor. Check out the Microsoft Flight Simulator community. Those die-hard fans have to wait 3-5 years between releases (from FS98 to FSX) and they still suffer bugs. In the meantime, people ask for more development time. Go figure. I would know. I was a MSFS fan myself back then. In fact, I bought my computer that was specifically made to handle Flight Simulator X. If my computer can handle FSX, it can handle Eve Online: Incarna for sure since FSX was strangely built for hardware that didn't even exist in the market at the time of release (for some odd reason we'll never know why). Quote: - There is about unlimited number of things what can go wrong when major patch like this is deployed. The grass is green, the sky is blue, what else is new?
Scarlet des Loupes Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2011.05.27 04:41:00 - [14] At least we know Clear Skies III won't disappoint!
Bane Loppknow Pel Industries	Posted - 2011.05.27 05:00:00 - [15] I think the best thing Incarna as to offer is a sense of scale. You don't really realize just how massive your ships are until you see comparisons. I mean, the Rifter is almost exactly the same length as a 747. And you have guns the size of cars mounted to that thing. Incarna will give us a better sense of that, which will hopefully bring in new people and maybe entertain some bored old vets for a while. Also, Maller rebuild.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2011.05.27 05:04:00 - [16] Originally by: Henry Haphorn If you don't have hardware that can support shader 3.0, then you're screwed. That's all we need to know. Of course, you can't go wrong slapping an extra stick of RAM while you're at it. It's not that easy to stick extra RAM into your video card. People with integrated chipsets (i.e.: any GPU with the "Mobile" tag) will be stuffed, simply due to the bandwidth required for all the textures that are being used and the sheer polygon count will defeat Shader 3.0 compliant but underpowered GPUs (where by "defeat" I mean "cause the magic blue smoke to escape"). -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.05.27 05:23:00 - [17] here is what will happen. it will be buggy, people will complain. they will complain that it is game breaking blah blah blah. CCP will fix it and then they will complain about the content, or lack thereof. Then CCP will add content, and people will complain that its buggy. CCP will fix it and then they will complain about the content, or lack thereof. Then CCP will add content, and people will complain that its buggy. CCP will fix it and then they will complain about the content, or lack thereof. Then CCP will add content, and people will complain that its buggy. CCP will fix it and then they will complain about the content, or lack thereof. Then CCP will add content, and people will complain that its buggy. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Mirabi Tiane	Posted - 2011.05.27 05:32:00 - [18] Originally by: Barakkus You don't though, you can just leave your character standing there and access the normal functions of being in station with the regular station UI. The purpose of Incarna is enhancement of immersion. As a roleplayer, I foresee it damaging immersion if it is not made optional. Capsuleers do not get out of their pods every single time they dock. There are very few aspects of EVE's game mechanics that an immersionist has to "filter out" in order to maintain their immersion; CCP should not add another thing like that, especially when doing so would be ridiculously contrary to their own stated purposes and the solution is both utterly simple and completely harmless.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2011.05.27 05:39:00 - [19] Originally by: Barakkus You don't though, you can just leave your character standing there and access the normal functions of being in station with the regular station UI. The UI is not interactable until the interior is loaded though. UI lag, graphics lag, it's all there in spadefuls. On Duality I couldn't even interact with the fitting window: it would open, do the animation of the module slots, then get stuck at that point where it's trying to load the textures for the icons of the modules that it is supposed to display. So no icons, no modules, no calculated details such as resistances, sub-warp speed, sig radius, etc. So during the three to fifteen minutes it takes to finish loading the station interior you can't do anything because the computer is too busy raping the hard drive for new textures, and virtual memory (2-3GB of RAM used per client, which sucks if you only have 3GB of RAM and need to run Windows too) -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
ivar R'dhak Minmatar	Posted - 2011.05.27 05:51:00 - [20] The purpose of CCP is to earn money with this game. Incarna will most likely make running one client next to impossible on hardware that now runs two comfortably(on lowest settings). VERY stupid move, especially if 99% of the problems would be so easily avoided with making a "Captain¦s Quarters" out of the current RE-CUSTOMIZATION button. ______________ Mal-¦Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦ Zoe-`Big damn heroes, sir.` Mal-¦Aint we just.¦
Jada Maroo	Posted - 2011.05.27 05:52:00 - [21] Originally by: Calathea Sata Typical of CCP. Incarna 1.0 will likely be buggy as... the Amazon rainforest (I can't even think) :CCP: :Excellence: :Deliverance: You cling to the failboat like an angry barnacle.

CCP Spitfire C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2011.05.27 06:00:00 - [22] That is why we are going to have a new build on Duality available for testing this afternoon. Performance on the older machines is still being worked on - with quite a lot of help from the community. Spitfire Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online

Zagdul Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2011.05.27 06:12:00 - [23] CCP needs to stop hiring people who have ideas and start hiring people who are pro at writing 60k lines of flawless code a day.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2011.05.27 06:15:00 - [24] I'll be there, never fear :) I'll specifically be looking for ways to improve the FPS to the point that the UI is actually interactable. -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2011.05.27 06:20:00 - [25] Originally by: Zagdul CCP needs to stop hiring people who have ideas and start hiring people who are pro at writing 60k lines of flawless code a day. Wow! And here I thought I was something special writing 12 lines of code per day, on average :\ All documented, tested and working, of course (so 12 lines of code is usually accompanied by 30 lines of tests). -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
Gaoman Nosconian	Posted - 2011.05.27 06:31:00 - [26] Originally by: Calathea Sata There is no denying that Incarna will have a hard time justifying the sacrifice of four years of content development in other areas of EVE, unless it is going to rock us off our sock, but unfortunately from the current looks of it, the dull "walking in your own room by yourself" doesn't look very interesting or useful at all [...] Do you really think that it took four years to design and create this first iteration of Incarna? With the video about the future vision of EVE in mind, the captains quarters is a typical example of think big, start small. I'm pretty sure it would be near impossible to add a whole set of new content based on a new piece of technology without a lot of issues. The captains quarters is the perfect staging ground for this new technology, if it doesn't work perfect yet, no harm done, the good old buttons are still available. It doesn't affect or require skills or isk, and it's not yet a multi-user environment, you can not influence another players gameplay with it as of yet. Once a technology has been proven, tested and improved, new content can be built on top of it.
enterprisePSI Unimatrix 0.1	Posted - 2011.05.27 06:34:00 - [27] Seriously CCP. Ability to block/ignore whiners on forums. Please! The Pod Log. \|\|\| I MADE TWEET Y U NO FOLLOW!?

CCP Spitfire C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2011.05.27 06:52:00 - [28] Originally by: Gaoman Nosconian Do you really think that it took four years to design and create this first iteration of Incarna? With the video about the future vision of EVE in mind, the captains quarters is a typical example of think big, start small. I'm pretty sure it would be near impossible to add a whole set of new content based on a new piece of technology without a lot of issues. The captains quarters is the perfect staging ground for this new technology, if it doesn't work perfect yet, no harm done, the good old buttons are still available. It doesn't affect or require skills or isk, and it's not yet a multi-user environment, you can not influence another players gameplay with it as of yet. Once a technology has been proven, tested and improved, new content can be built on top of it. Well said. There is a pretty huge amount of back-end work that needs to be done - and it is not limited to Incarna by any means (e.g. inventory corification, Carbon UI, etc.) Spitfire Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online

tla s'hpyt	Posted - 2011.05.27 09:14:00 - [29] ahem
Millie Clode Amarr Insert Cool Name Here	Posted - 2011.05.27 09:58:00 - [30] Originally by: Grey Stormshadow - We have buggy work in progress build of Incarna in duality. You see this is why CCP should have maybe released it onto something like...oh, I dunno a TEST server or something first, just to bugcheck it before they release it. >.< ---------- Who, me?
Cindy NefreX	Posted - 2011.05.27 11:45:00 - [31] CCP's problem is they have invested(wasted) so much time on this awful expansion that they are forced to follow it through. I for one do not want this expansion. I play this game for spaceships not for WoW like walking around.
Glyken Touchon Gallente Independent Alchemists	Posted - 2011.05.27 12:47:00 - [32] issues with fitting screens on duality likely stem from the new turrets and ship models, so I wouldn't use them as a benchmark. ______ Originally by: CCP Veritas In other words, I believe Dogma is doing stupid things, and I intend to beat the stupid out of it before considering giving it rocket boots.
Logan LaMort Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.27 12:47:00 - [33] Originally by: Mara Rinn Originally by: Barakkus You don't though, you can just leave your character standing there and access the normal functions of being in station with the regular station UI. The UI is not interactable until the interior is loaded though. UI lag, graphics lag, it's all there in spadefuls. On Duality I couldn't even interact with the fitting window: it would open, do the animation of the module slots, then get stuck at that point where it's trying to load the textures for the icons of the modules that it is supposed to display. So no icons, no modules, no calculated details such as resistances, sub-warp speed, sig radius, etc. So during the three to fifteen minutes it takes to finish loading the station interior you can't do anything because the computer is too busy raping the hard drive for new textures, and virtual memory (2-3GB of RAM used per client, which sucks if you only have 3GB of RAM and need to run Windows too) Haven't tested it yet, but just quoting this from the upcoming Duality build thread. Quote: Reminder. NeoCom and Station services are loaded first with a loading screen and accessible while the environment and character are loading. Walking around is not required to turn in a mission or dump your cargo into your station hangar.
Grey Stormshadow Starwreck Industries	Posted - 2011.05.27 16:35:00 - [34] Edited by: Grey Stormshadow on 27/05/2011 16:38:32 After all these comments I still fail to understand why it is so difficult to make something what may (will) cause issues to be optional at least up to the point when it is proven to be working as intended. This is what I call "driving a truck in freeway, closing your eyes and pretending that there is nothing you can hit with it"-syndrome. As long there is a way to avoid problems, lets not avoid them? edit: ...and just for the clarification "default <> optional". ------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :)
Angel of Night	Posted - 2011.05.27 17:40:00 - [35] Originally by: Grey Stormshadow -stuff- ...oh wait... now I understand. It is the AUR shop. Everything makes sense now. ^^this
Scorpionidae	Posted - 2011.05.27 17:46:00 - [36] Soooo if you guys hate how CCP do stuff why are you still here? imo. Scorpionidae
LeviUK Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2011.05.27 18:18:00 - [37] Originally by: Scorpionidae Soooo if you guys hate how CCP do stuff why are you still here? imo. Scorpionidae I'm down to a single account(-3: 31221765, 2335442, 2654227), I have a pile of plex, because paying for this ** isn't worth it. Once they run out I will feel pretty sad, knowing that a company can not understand its captive audience well enough to continue with a good thing, resulting in good memories being **ed on by incompetence and money hungry management slowly destroying the only semi-functioning part of the company. Once they were cute, bold and had a clear vision. The underdog grew the ego and corporation-syndrome to match it, only to seemingly try too hard hard and end up looking like a derpy redhead stepchild.
EnslaverOfMinmatar Amarr	Posted - 2011.05.27 18:33:00 - [38] Originally by: Calathea Sata Typical of CCP. Incarna 1.0 will likely be buggy as... NYC beds uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ ƃuıpɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ noʎ
Captain Mung	Posted - 2011.05.27 19:14:00 - [39] Originally by: Barakkus Originally by: Captain Mung Forcing Incarna down our throats instead of making it optional is moronic. A large portion of EvE's community does not even want "walking in stations" (they want to fly space ships, in a space ship game. Surprising, I know); I don't have a problem with it being implemented, but making it mandatory is beyond all stupidity (I've played with it on Duality and if I have to go through that every time I dock... good god). CCP dropped the ball with this ****ed decision. You don't though, you can just leave your character standing there and access the normal functions of being in station with the regular station UI. Have you been on Duality? You have to sit there and load the station environment if you want to do something as simple as changing ship or picking up ammo. So yes, you do have to go through that nonsense every time you dock. It's ridiculous. How hard would it be to have an option in the games settings that set ones default to either "Stay in pod when docked" or "Exit pod when docked"? CCP muset being employing some very unintelligent people if they weren't able to come up with that one. I don't get what their motive is with forcing this bull on us.. if their goal was to ** off a large part of their player base, then well done CCP.
mkint	Posted - 2011.05.27 19:24:00 - [40] Originally by: Captain Mung Originally by: Barakkus Originally by: Captain Mung Forcing Incarna down our throats instead of making it optional is moronic. A large portion of EvE's community does not even want "walking in stations" (they want to fly space ships, in a space ship game. Surprising, I know); I don't have a problem with it being implemented, but making it mandatory is beyond all stupidity (I've played with it on Duality and if I have to go through that every time I dock... good god). CCP dropped the ball with this ****ed decision. You don't though, you can just leave your character standing there and access the normal functions of being in station with the regular station UI. Have you been on Duality? You have to sit there and load the station environment if you want to do something as simple as changing ship or picking up ammo. So yes, you do have to go through that nonsense every time you dock. It's ridiculous. How hard would it be to have an option in the games settings that set ones default to either "Stay in pod when docked" or "Exit pod when docked"? CCP muset being employing some very unintelligent people if they weren't able to come up with that one. I don't get what their motive is with forcing this bull on us.. if their goal was to off a large part of their player base, then well done CCP. Their motivation was to suck the **s of the media outlets. They can say "we have a 99% adoption rating for our new expansion!" It's just another form of screwing the customer and lying to the media all in the pursuit of the Holy Dollar. No, I don't respect CCP as a company. Yes, I hope they fail sooner rather than later, so the damned excecs can put "destroyed a profitable successful company" on their resumes.
Jed Clampett	Posted - 2011.06.21 22:16:00 - [41] Too bad so sad that player do not understand the reality of MMO who must deal with real world bank finance instead of fantasy. The truth is that CCP take out loans and thus has no choice on release dates or even some specific features. They told the bank that was when and what was going to happen in order to get money to pay for development. Now they must produce software release on time whether its a good idea or not. And yes the selection of features is driven more by what bank managers think will sell than by a player survey. Further I use old hardware 3 years out of date. But holy crap batman some of you whiners are using stuff from the 1900s!!!! (OK just wanted to use that line :) But seriously you need to buy somebody else 2 year old gaming machine off Craig's list or spend at least $500 every 5 years on new computer hardware, $700 once you include a graphics card upgrade and hard drive repair. Once your computer hits 3 years old if it was not originally a gaming friendly machine (i.e. it was home office or business-oriented machine or standard laptop) -- don't expect to play modern online games other than browser classics. Even if you had a gaming friendly machine 5 years is about the limit for decent performance even with a graphic card upgrade (not bleeding edge but still sold at major retail stores & not in the bargain bin). Any one who is not spending that much cash is holding everyone else back. Go download a copy of Orion. Not that I think the CQ is important itself. Truthfully CCP is just using CG to debug walking toons before more general release.
Madcow Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe	Posted - 2011.06.21 22:16:00 - [42] Do you have to necro 1 month old topics ______________________ I am just a crazy cow

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