Originally by: Akita T

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They don't have REST mass, but they have impulse, so they sort of almost behave as if they had mass in collisions.

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Originally by: Sirinda

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Originally by: Akita T

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They don't have REST mass, but they have impulse, so they sort of almost behave as if they had mass in collisions.

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I admit I have trouble wrapping my mind around a massless particle, whereas according to Einstein's "E = m * c^2" formula, it should have some mass, since "m = 0" would mean that "E = 0". And a laser that emits zero energy would be pretty moot.

Then again, I'm a chemist. Make me kill people with blister/nerve/lung/blood agent instead. >.<

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Originally by: Sirinda

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Originally by: Akita T

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They don't have REST mass, but they have impulse, so they sort of almost behave as if they had mass in collisions.

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I admit I have trouble wrapping my mind around a massless particle, whereas according to Einstein's "E = m * c^2" formula, it should have some mass, since "m = 0" would mean that "E = 0". And a laser that emits zero energy would be pretty moot.

Then again, I'm a chemist. Make me kill people with blister/nerve/lung/blood agent instead. >.<

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Originally by: Sirinda

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Originally by: Akita T

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They don't have REST mass, but they have impulse, so they sort of almost behave as if they had mass in collisions.

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I admit I have trouble wrapping my mind around a massless particle, whereas according to Einstein's "E = m * c^2" formula, it should have some mass, since "m = 0" would mean that "E = 0". And a laser that emits zero energy would be pretty moot.
Then again, I'm a chemist. Make me kill people with blister/nerve/lung/blood agent instead. >.<

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Originally by: Akita T

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Edited by: Akita T on 27/05/2011 18:28:00

Originally by: Sirinda

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Originally by: Akita T

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They don't have REST mass, but they have impulse, so they sort of almost behave as if they had mass in collisions.

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I admit I have trouble wrapping my mind around a massless particle, whereas according to Einstein's "E = m * c^2" formula, it should have some mass, since "m = 0" would mean that "E = 0". And a laser that emits zero energy would be pretty moot.
Then again, I'm a chemist. Make me kill people with blister/nerve/lung/blood agent instead. >.<

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Mass increases with speed, but you only see a noticeable increase as you approach the speed of light.
A single electron accelerated to exactly the speed of light would theoretically have INFINITE mass
Then again, you can never accelerate anything to the speed of light, as it would also require an infinite amount of thrust (or energy, or whatever).
Matter can't move at the speed of light, photons can't move at anything but the speed of light (in the medium they're moving through).

Photons "sort of" have mass, but only when moving at the speed of light, and their "equivalent mass" depends on their frequency (or, if you prefer, energy).
If you try to decelerate a photon, it STILL moves at the speed of light, but it will have a lower frequency, and therefore lower energy.
If you try to decelerate it below the speed of light, it ceases to exist, it has a "zero REST mass".

P.S. Obviously, the above is an oversimplification. In reality, things are far, far more complicated than that.

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Originally by: Mister Smithington

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Edited by: Mister Smithington on 27/05/2011 18:29:53

Originally by: Sirinda

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Originally by: Akita T

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They don't have REST mass, but they have impulse, so they sort of almost behave as if they had mass in collisions.

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I admit I have trouble wrapping my mind around a massless particle, whereas according to Einstein's "E = m * c^2" formula, it should have some mass, since "m = 0" would mean that "E = 0". And a laser that emits zero energy would be pretty moot.

Then again, I'm a chemist. Make me kill people with blister/nerve/lung/blood agent instead. >.<

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...

Originally by: Kate Rygel

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The laser beam doesn't need to have the mass. The mass in the E=MC^2 equation would exist at the source where the energy is created (i.e. the laser gun). The beam itself is just projecting that energy onto the destination (i.e. your target)

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Let's be clear here, you're not breaking down the matter of the laser turret to release energy. The energy comes from the electricity that you pour into the gas chamber of the laser to excite the molecules into releasing photons. In other words, we're not creating energy here. Depending on how a ships capacitor works, we're converting potentially nuclear energy (maybe even chemical energy if we're running a cap booster) into electrical energy and then into electromagnetic radiation, suffering energy loss to heat due to efficiency issues at every stage.

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Originally by: NinjaSpud

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*reads entire thread from front to back*

......


..........

*Head explodes*

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Originally by: Mister Smithington

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Originally by: NinjaSpud

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*reads entire thread from front to back*

......


..........

*Head explodes*

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tl;dr version

Cross train amarr. The new lasers are awesome, and the new maller is going to be the top dog of station spinning.

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Originally by: Calathea Sata

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I agree with OP, laser turrets shouldn't have any recoil simply because they shouldn't. I guess common sense isn't a requirement when CCP hires people.

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Originally by: Skinny Vickers

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So to save my brain from melt down I've decided that the lasers don't actually recoil in the traditional sense but the action we see is a result of a forced gas active cooling system.

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Quote:

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Now wasn't that simpler?

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Originally by: Tippia

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Originally by: Skinny Vickers

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So to save my brain from melt down I've decided that the lasers don't actually recoil in the traditional sense but the action we see is a result of a forced gas active cooling system.

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Wouldn't it be simpler to say that the lasers do recoil in the traditional senseà becauseà you know, they actually do?

Quote:

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Now wasn't that simpler?

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Not really.

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Originally by: Ayieka

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Do you even know what a laser IS, little dog?

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Originally by: Shiera Kuni

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So you're telling me that you believe a metal slug travelling along a magnetic rail track, not creating a backblow as standard cased ammo does, would cause recoil? The only way I can see it causing recoil is if it produced enough shock after leaving the barrel to push it back. Now of course, I'm thinking of current applications and not suspended plasma as it is in EVE. You're correct in that aspect at least, the suspended plasma charges -could- be producing recoil from gas ventilation.

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Originally by: CCP Tuxford

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bugger, I need to have a closer look at this menu function

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Originally by: Mister Smithington

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tl;dr version

Cross train amarr. The new lasers are awesome, and the new maller is going to be the top dog of station spinning.

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Originally by: Shiera Kuni

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Originally by: NinjaSpud

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You're correct, newton states that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. You're only mistake is the word "recoil"

Recoil from a gun is caused by the explosion of the powder, not the bullet traveling along the barrel. Guns still kick when there's a blank inside. When it detonates, the energy from the explosion needs an exit, it finds the path of least resistance and exits out the barrel, pushing the bullet along with it.

Again, with the equal and opposite reaction thing, you get a massive force leaving out the end of the barrel -----> and as a result, it pushes the bullet but also propels the gun in the opposite direction <-----

The amount of energy lost when you fire a bullet is staggering.

Railguns on the other hand, have no explosion, therefore have no recoil. I'm not saying they don't produce kinetic energy, but I am saying that the kinetic energy is conserved in the projectile until impact. The result is the projectile has way more kinetic energy, more because the energy is conserved, or focused in the projectile and does not release until impact.


True story here, my uncle was in the army in the late 80's. he had top secret clearance (computer nerd for spec ops) and one day, they went to a 'new weapons demo'. the army was testing one of its first rail guns.

They took an aluminum casing (non magnetic material) about 500MM. If I remember, that's the size of a football...American not European. In the very center of that casing, was a single steel BB (magnetic material), the same kind you shot birds with as a child.

The loaded this casing into a rail gun, and shot it at an old tank, 5 miles away. He said the gun didn't make a single noise or movement. the only noise they heard was the 500MM casing breaking the sound barrier.

when they inspected the tank, it had a perfect football sized hole clean threw it.

kewl **** eh?

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Thank you! I knew I wasn't crazy.

Originally by: Ghoest

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Your lack of perception or vision has no bearing on physics.

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I'm currently searching my braille keyboard for an appropriate retort.

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Originally by: CCP Tuxford

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bugger, I need to have a closer look at this menu function

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Originally by: Akita T

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They don't have REST mass, but they have impulse, so they sort of almost behave as if they had mass in collisions.

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Originally by: CCP Tuxford

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bugger, I need to have a closer look at this menu function

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Originally by: Soden Rah

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no the magnetic force acting on the 'slug' is ALSO acting on the rails. the rails experience a force equal and opposite to the one acting on the projectile.
however as the rails are much bigger/heavier than the projectile and hopefully also anchored to something big and heavy its the projectile that goes shooting off and the rail gun stays where it is. if that wasn't the case you could attach the projectile to the back of the gun with a piece of string, and create a reaction-less drive system.

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Originally by: Cpt Arareb

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then I saw the recoil in the laser turrets (boner off and in need of reanimation)

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Originally by: Akita T

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Originally by: Cpt Arareb

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then I saw the recoil in the laser turrets (boner off and in need of reanimation)

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You might want to read the thread to see why it might very well be JUSTIFIED.

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Originally by: CCP Tuxford

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bugger, I need to have a closer look at this menu function

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Originally by: Akita T

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Originally by: Cpt Arareb

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then I saw the recoil in the laser turrets (boner off and in need of reanimation)

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You might want to read the thread to see why it might very well be JUSTIFIED.

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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*reads thread*

and you guys wonder why girls don't want to come anywhere near this game.

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Originally by: CCP Tuxford

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bugger, I need to have a closer look at this menu function

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