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new fgft Athonille
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Posted - 2011.05.28 04:00:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Straight Edged Shut up. Tengu needs 50% more DPS to do as much dps as proteus while cloaking
Buff the tengu
This thread is now about blackberries
hi i am ship that is 15km away from your proteus. how much damage were you doing again
oh right.
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Dray
Caldari Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.05.28 04:44:00 -
[32]
When a 7 day old alt posts about tengus needing a nerf something smells wrong, you been butt hurt by PL's tengu fleet recently?
TL:DR F**K OFF.
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new fgft Athonille
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Posted - 2011.05.28 05:18:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Dray When a 7 day old alt posts about tengus needing a nerf something smells wrong, you been butt hurt by PL's tengu fleet recently?
TL:DR F**K OFF.
so wrong boy. so wrong
hey why dont you post your thoughts on the matter, maybe use some statistics, some reasoning or even a rational statement furthering your cause.
tengu does way too much damage, has way too many advantage and completes makes the t3 ship class tengu or gtfo. outside of heavy tacklers with warp disruption and webs range bonused, the tengu is a better t3 in pvp hands down.
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Thleffs
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.28 05:23:00 -
[34]
Your troll has failed sir , go home.
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Demolishar
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Posted - 2011.05.28 06:05:00 -
[35]
Originally by: new fgft Athonille
Originally by: Straight Edged Shut up. Tengu needs 50% more DPS to do as much dps as proteus while cloaking
Buff the tengu
This thread is now about blackberries
hi i am ship that is 15km away from your proteus. how much damage were you doing again
oh right.
What's this, you're scrammed? LOLOL you forgot my scram has 23km overheated range! Now I MWD right in your face with my MWD that uses 1/5th of cap it normally would cause I'm so pro. WHO'S LAUGHING NOW!!!
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Forum Troll Trolling
Forum Trolling Corp
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Posted - 2011.05.28 06:44:00 -
[36]
the legion could use a buff to something worth more than c1 and c2 crawler
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Biggles AU
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Posted - 2011.05.28 07:21:00 -
[37]
new fgft Athonille is a very cranky boy. Eve would be better off w/o him and his other 6 accounts and their toons!
Stop complaining and just live with it. theres plenty unbalanced ship classes out there. thats the whole F***ing point. EVERYTHING SHIP IS DIFFERENT. Just train for the ship and stop b****ing.
Also please stop complaining about Corporations and alliances. you achieve nothing but trolls in your threads.
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new fgft Athonille
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Posted - 2011.05.28 08:15:00 -
[38]
lets get some numbers. on all level 5 characters
Loki with projectile scoping array, 4 gyrostab 2 tracking enhancer does 601 dps with faction ammo and 479 with barrage. sounds decent right.
at 30km it does about 275 dps with faction and 350 dps with barrage. it only gets worse from there. so not really that great at damage and projection. needs 6 lows and 6 highs for that. capless
Proteus. 6 neutrons, 3 magstabs so you can still tank. does a whopping 691 damage with antimatter and 850 if you have hammers as well. even including drones, your damage will be about 511 dps at 10km and 250 dps at 15km. having null helps, but even with null, you will be down to 473 at 15km, still with drones.
Tengu, 6 launchers, 3 ballistic control systems. 534 damage with cn scourge 596 with fury 427 non kinetic faction 477 non kinetic fury. out to 126 with faction and 113 with fury.
without using kinetic damage, you will outdamage the proteus using null past 15 kilometers all the way to 113km. in this range. using kinetic, you can outdamage every proteus setup from roughly 10km all the way to 113km.
its even worse with the loki. you will outdamage it, using any damage type past 30km. the loki also has to use nearly double the slots for both damage mods and tracking enhancers/tracking computers just to be remotely competitive.
it basically does way too much damage, it can project way too damage, and outside of the two useful electronics subsystems on other races t3s (web and warp disruption range) there is no reason to use anything else but a tengu.
-1 less launcher would bring all the t3s in the same range of each other.
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Malcolm Drant
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Posted - 2011.05.28 10:11:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Malcolm Drant on 28/05/2011 10:11:28 So.... basically, you are comparing Tengu versus the other T3s and you only compare its damage/tanking abilities, while disregarding everything else.....
Loki is by far the best fleet boosting T3..... should it be nerfed then?
Loki has better GTFO ability than Tengu (both can be fit with 100MN AB, but Loki has long range webs to boot)..... should it be nerfed again?
Loki can be used both in Shield AND Armor tanked fleets.... seriously, what an unbalance... NERF!!
.... see what I did there?
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.05.28 10:22:00 -
[40]
Basically, no one gives a stuff about PvE capabilities, when there's no real opportunity cost to flying the wrong ship.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2011.05.28 10:32:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 28/05/2011 10:33:18
Quote:
Originally by: Demolishar hi i am ship that is 15km away from your proteus. how much damage were you doing again
oh right.
What's this, you're scrammed? LOLOL you forgot my scram has 23km overheated range! Now I MWD right in your face with my MWD that uses 1/5th of cap it normally would cause I'm so pro. WHO'S LAUGHING NOW!!!
Probably the Tengu still, as the Proteus's blasters are hitting its highest resists and the Tengu is firing EM/explosive.
Unless of course the Tengu pilot is an idiot who's only brought kinetic, in which case, lol.
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new fgft Athonille
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Posted - 2011.05.28 10:44:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Malcolm Drant
Loki is by far the best fleet boosting T3..... should it be nerfed then?
all but the proteus has useful ganglink bonuses. being able to have the other three, i find myself using the tengu the most. while i understand it comes down to choice between siege/armor/skirmish, the proteus easily has the worst set of ganglinks.
as far as the most amount of links, the tengu wins again. surprise surprise.
Originally by: Malcolm Drant Loki has better GTFO ability than Tengu (both can be fit with 100MN AB, but Loki has long range webs to boot)..... should it be nerfed again?
i did state the loki's webs are on the short list of reasons your pvp t3 should not be a tengu. however without the web subsystem, you couldnt be as effective in a loki than you could be in a tengu
the other would be the proteus's warp disruption bonuses, but thats a bit of a reach on that. while you could be a dedicated heavy tackler in a gang, your dps would be atrocity at the ranges you were tackling at.
Originally by: Malcolm Drant Loki can be used both in Shield AND Armor tanked fleets.... seriously, what an unbalance... NERF!!
shield tanking is defintely a bonus to smaller ships and anything involving 0.0 warfare. once you take out slaves, the armor ehp tanks arent quite as impressive as they were, and plating a bunch of cruisers to make them as slow as shield battlecruisers isnt my idea of sound tactical planning.
if you had to assemble a t3 pvp fleet, it would be tengus. its been done and to great success. some ab hac gangs can benefit from having a loki or a proteus for tackling purposes only, but they certainly arent deal breakers in ab hac fleet compositions.
the way it is now, is if you use a t3 ship in pvp combat, it better be a tengu. if you use a t3 for pve, its a tengu.
reducing the amount of dps so the other platforms have the dps edge in short range scenarios is a very important step to making all t3s viable in pvp when compared to each other.
i am starting to get the feeling you dont want your pwnmobiles nerfed, but look at it from a balance amongst t3 perspective.
- 1 launcher all configurations. they shouldnt have the best range, change damage type even with a penalty on damage type, outdamage most t3s from 20ish kilometters to 110 kilometers. and heavy missiles can hit and damage targets of all sizes, no matter the angular velocity
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.28 11:14:00 -
[43]
Quote: missile speed has absolutely no effect in pve, and its not really a big issue in pvp gangs built around using missiles.
Hi. When I pve the npc's use defenders. But I am an EFT warrior and it gets more DPS therefore it is IMBA.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled electroshock therapy. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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Malcolm Drant
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Posted - 2011.05.28 11:19:00 -
[44]
Originally by: new fgft Athonille shield tanking is defintely a bonus to smaller ships and anything involving 0.0 warfare. once you take out slaves, the armor ehp tanks arent quite as impressive as they were, and plating a bunch of cruisers to make them as slow as shield battlecruisers isnt my idea of sound tactical planning.
And adding bunch of Tengus to your Hellcat/AHAC fleets is your idea of sound tactical planning? Even better, most used Carriers/Supercarriers are Archon/Thanatos/Aeon/Nyx - that means ARMOR REPPERs and that also means you focus your fleet around armor.
Originally by: new fgft Athonille if you had to assemble a t3 pvp fleet, it would be tengus. its been done and to great success. some ab hac gangs can benefit from having a loki or a proteus for tackling purposes only, but they certainly arent deal breakers in ab hac fleet compositions.
This is true, fleet of Tengus + support beats fleet of Lokis + support, not arguing that. BUT, if you just add some Tengus to the fleet and not build the fleet around them, the Lokis are just as usefull - they wont have as much DPS, but they will have good alpha (because fleet Lokis will be Arty fit) + range webs at the same time.
Originally by: new fgft Athonille i am starting to get the feeling you dont want your pwnmobiles nerfed, but look at it from a balance amongst t3 perspective.
I cant fly any other T3 except my Loki, so.... you are wrong.
Originally by: new fgft Athonille .... the best range, change damage type even with a penalty on damage type, outdamage most t3s from 20ish kilometters to 110 kilometers. and heavy missiles can hit and damage targets of all sizes, no matter the angular velocity
And can be destroyed by Smartbombs before reaching the target - AFAIK, PL used "Firewall" fleets to destroy missiles from Drake blobs, so I see no reason why it shouldnt be possible against Tengus.
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Straight Edged
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Posted - 2011.05.28 11:20:00 -
[45]
Quote: Loki is by far the best fleet boosting T3
rofl.
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new fgft Athonille
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Posted - 2011.05.28 13:04:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Quote: missile speed has absolutely no effect in pve, and its not really a big issue in pvp gangs built around using missiles.
Hi. When I pve the npc's use defenders. But I am an EFT warrior and it gets more DPS therefore it is IMBA.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled electroshock therapy.
arent you the guy who claims to do 1200 dps in your mach and that falloff doesnt mean squat to your damage output
yea
Originally by: Malcolm Drant
And can be destroyed by Smartbombs before reaching the target - AFAIK, PL used "Firewall" fleets to destroy missiles from Drake blobs, so I see no reason why it shouldnt be possible against Tengus.
get a new warp in. being both bubble proof and the ability to instantly evaporate tacklers should make that an easy enough task.
if its firewall bs, they have to be incredibly close, so just bomb them to submission
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Goose99
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Posted - 2011.05.28 13:48:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Gypsio III Edited by: Gypsio III on 28/05/2011 10:33:18
Quote:
Originally by: Demolishar hi i am ship that is 15km away from your proteus. how much damage were you doing again
oh right.
What's this, you're scrammed? LOLOL you forgot my scram has 23km overheated range! Now I MWD right in your face with my MWD that uses 1/5th of cap it normally would cause I'm so pro. WHO'S LAUGHING NOW!!!
Probably the Tengu still, as the Proteus's blasters are hitting its highest resists and the Tengu is firing EM/explosive.
Unless of course the Tengu pilot is an idiot who's only brought kinetic, in which case, lol.
Why do people respond to themselves with alts? This is getting embarrassing. You obviously have no actual experience, and need to get a clue. I've been on both ends of the fight many, many times. Proteus boogyman decloaks on top of you and lock you down. It also has long scram/point subsystem, but that doesn't actually matter point blank. And no, no other t3 can remotely hope to go toe to toe with a brick Proteus, regardless of damage type. This applies up to BS and down to AF.
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Plus 1
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Posted - 2011.05.28 14:04:00 -
[48]
Why do Caldari ships that don't suck generate so much rage?
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Goose99
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Posted - 2011.05.28 14:21:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Plus 1 Why do Caldari ships that don't suck generate so much rage?
Because they're purebreed carebear trolls who's never even been outside of highsec. Judging from some of those posts, their only source of information comes from EFT. From a different crowd, the cloaky tengu boogyman would be the one generating rage... and tears.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2011.05.28 14:48:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Goose99
Why do people respond to themselves with alts? This is getting embarrassing. You obviously have no actual experience, and need to get a clue. I've been on both ends of the fight many, many times. Proteus boogyman decloaks on top of you and lock you down. It also has long scram/point subsystem, but that doesn't actually matter point blank. And no, no other t3 can remotely hope to go toe to toe with a brick Proteus, regardless of damage type. This applies up to BS and down to AF.
*Tengu fires up 100 MN AB, webs Proteus and breaks scrambler* *Proteus does zero DPS* *Proteus dies*
BTW, ever had a couple of TDs applied to your Proteus?
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Goose99
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Posted - 2011.05.28 14:52:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Goose99
Why do people respond to themselves with alts? This is getting embarrassing. You obviously have no actual experience, and need to get a clue. I've been on both ends of the fight many, many times. Proteus boogyman decloaks on top of you and lock you down. It also has long scram/point subsystem, but that doesn't actually matter point blank. And no, no other t3 can remotely hope to go toe to toe with a brick Proteus, regardless of damage type. This applies up to BS and down to AF.
*Tengu fires up 100 MN AB, webs Proteus and breaks scrambler* *Proteus does zero DPS* *Proteus dies*
BTW, ever had a couple of TDs applied to your Proteus?
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Mavnas
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Posted - 2011.05.28 22:24:00 -
[52]
Quote: that is a skill and attention thing. the better you are at the game, the more efficient you are. if you can time it right, you never waste volleys
the game should grant you something if you are good and paying attention
No, that's a micromanagement thing. It's just plain annoying. When I'm grinding mission after misson, I'm not looking to have to pay that much attention. If I were, i'd be doing something else.
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Tenzeck
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Posted - 2011.05.29 15:26:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Swynet So people blah blahing about improbable Tengus are dumbs, every one of them has 160m rad and base scan res over 240 witch makes them all improbable
It's sensor strength vs. scan resolution. Sig radius has nothing to do with it.
You need to get your sensor strength pretty high to be unprobeable.
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Korg Tronix
Noir.
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Posted - 2011.05.29 15:31:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Tenzeck
Originally by: Swynet So people blah blahing about improbable Tengus are dumbs, every one of them has 160m rad and base scan res over 240 witch makes them all improbable
It's sensor strength vs. scan resolution. Sig radius has nothing to do with it.
You need to get your sensor strength pretty high to be unprobeable.
It's Sensor Strength to Sig Radius ratio of something like 1.08>1 Scan res has nothing to do with it. If it did people would fit warp stabs to their unprobable set ups to lower the scan res
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Swynet
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Posted - 2011.05.29 17:27:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Swynet on 29/05/2011 17:30:53
Originally by: Tenzeck
Originally by: Swynet So people blah blahing about improbable Tengus are dumbs, every one of them has 160m rad and base scan res over 240 witch makes them all improbable
It's sensor strength vs. scan resolution. Sig radius has nothing to do with it.
You need to get your sensor strength pretty high to be unprobeable.
Let me google it for you
Shhhht !
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Tenzeck
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Posted - 2011.05.29 17:32:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Tenzeck on 29/05/2011 17:37:00
Originally by: Korg Tronix It's Sensor Strength to Sig Radius ratio of something like 1.08>1 Scan res has nothing to do with it. If it did people would fit warp stabs to their unprobable set ups to lower the scan res
Oops. I switched scan resulution and sig radius around in my post because I was focused on the point that sensor strength is the thing you need to boost high to be unprobeable.
But yes, I should have said Scan Resolution has nothing to do with it. In any case, the thing that I quoted was completely wrong. It's not scan resolution over sig radius which would make a lot of ships unprobeable by default.
Originally by: Swynet Shhhht !
What you said was " every one of them has 160m rad and base scan res over 240 witch makes them all improbable" which is just completely wrong. Tengus are not all unprobeable by default.
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Swynet
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Posted - 2011.05.29 17:35:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Swynet on 29/05/2011 17:35:49
Originally by: Tenzeck
Originally by: Korg Tronix It's Sensor Strength to Sig Radius ratio of something like 1.08>1 Scan res has nothing to do with it. If it did people would fit warp stabs to their unprobable set ups to lower the scan res
Oops. I switched scan resulution and sig radius around in my post because I was focused on the point that sensor strength is the thing you need to boost high to be unprobeable.
But yes, I should have said Scan Resolution has nothing to do with it. In any case, the thing that I quoted was completely wrong. It's not scan resolution over sig radius which would make a lot of ships unprobeable by default.
Yes, so we can safely say that with 160 sign radius and over 240 scan res for every T3, theyr are all improbable before fit/pimp/gimp/skills and funky stuff, right?
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Tenzeck
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Posted - 2011.05.29 17:38:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Swynet Yes, so we can safely say that with 160 sign radius and over 240 scan res for every T3, theyr are all improbable before fit/pimp/gimp/skills and funky stuff, right?
No. There is a difference between Scan Resolution and Sensor Strength.
One is your Scan Resolution and one is your Sensor Strength.
Head on back to Google.
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Swynet
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Posted - 2011.05.29 17:45:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Swynet on 29/05/2011 17:46:38
Originally by: Tenzeck
Originally by: Swynet Yes, so we can safely say that with 160 sign radius and over 240 scan res for every T3, theyr are all improbable before fit/pimp/gimp/skills and funky stuff, right?
No. There is a difference between Scan Resolution and Sensor Strength.
One is your Scan Resolution and one is your Sensor Strength.
Head on back to Google.
Let me help ya once again: [url=http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Avoiding_scan_probes]read it all[/url] Short: sign rad/scan res
What?
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Mfume Apocal
Minmatar Origin. Black Legion.
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Posted - 2011.05.29 17:47:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Mfume Apocal on 29/05/2011 17:48:27
Originally by: Swynet Let me help ya once again: [url=]http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Avoiding_scan_probes"]read it all[/url]
Short: sign rad/scan res
What?
From the link you provided: "Target size is calculated as sig radius / sensor strength. The smaller your ship's target size, the harder it is for people to probe you down."
Yo, read your own links.
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