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Wraife
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Posted - 2011.05.29 05:33:00 -
[1]
I've never really done any PvP before but I'm planning to start trying some small gang/solo PvP soon.
I can fly fully T2 fitted Gallente HAC's and BC's (except I don't have T2 heavies) but I've never actually flown any of them before (my flying experience is almost entirely Domi)
I figure Ishtar is best for ratting in null sec
Assuming that's correct what I want to know is what is better for PvP of the 4 options (Ishtar, Deimos, Myrmidon, Brutix)?
Cheers,
Wraife
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Batelle
-Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.05.29 07:34:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Batelle on 29/05/2011 07:35:03
Ishtar > Myrmidon > Brutix > Deimos
its not quite so cut and dried, however. The key advantage of the ishtar is its 125m3 drone bandwidth compared with the 75m3 of the myrmidon. both the myrm and the ishtar can be fit either shield or armor, and the myrm is a better active tanker, and can fit a bigger buffer. It also relies more on its highslots for damage application, most effectively in the form of medium autocannons. The brutix and the deimos have a 50m3 drone bay and no damage bonus, which lends itself well to fielding 5 medium ECM drones. Brutix puts out mean dps and can be effective, but its very slow if plated, and many players opt for a single scram and a 2 slot + rigs shield tank instead. The deimos is stuck with 3 mids, has fitting issues, and its falloff bonus is very bad for railguns. Its low HP means its a brick if plated, and paper thin if not. In either case it fits blasters, and deserves its nickname "DieMost." That said, it can be a scary and effective ship, but in most situations its at a tactical disadvantage.
Ishtar is the best PVE ship except for solo WH stuff. In PVP the ishtar can field a set of sentry drones and a set of heavy drones. Sentries can be quite effective and are fairly unique tactically and have very high dps at long range.
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EC-P8R... You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. |
Lost Greybeard
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.29 09:15:00 -
[3]
What he said, except that if you're just starting with a new gang you should be prepared to lose some ships, which gives the Myrmidon a major cost advantage over the Ishtar. Obviously you lose some degree of power in exchange, but you also gain some fitting flexibility.
But, yeah, if you haven't even bothered with t2 med hybrids I doubt you'd like the Brutix much and you'd outright hate the diemost.
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If you outlaw tautologies, only outlaws will have tautologies. ~Anonymous |
Wraife
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Posted - 2011.05.29 11:13:00 -
[4]
Thanks for the advice.
I didn't say I don't have T2 hybrids, I said I don't have T2 Rails... I went with T2 blasters for Brutix and Diemost.
But it sounds like Myrmidon is the best place for me to start anyway, unless I get in with a good gang. Although if that happens they'd probably tell me what's best for me to fly anyway.
Just wondering why Ishtar isn't as good for WH's, is it just because it can't tank as much?
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Archare
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Posted - 2011.05.29 11:31:00 -
[5]
The issue isn't the tank for an Ishtar. It is that Sleepers like to attack and pop drones which makes them not as cost effective when you need to replace your t2 drones.
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RnDr Brain
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Posted - 2011.05.29 18:41:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Batelle
Edited by: Batelle on 29/05/2011 07:35:03
... The key advantage of the ishtar is its 125m3 drone bandwidth compared with the 75m3 of the myrmidon.
bandwidth is not in m3 mate
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Aubrey Maturin
RennTech
Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.05.30 16:51:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Aubrey Maturin on 30/05/2011 16:55:00
Originally by: Batelle
Edited by: Batelle on 29/05/2011 07:35:03
Ishtar > Deimos > Myrmidon > Brutix
The Deimos, with blasters, is a great tank for plexes and dominates Gurista's space.
As far as pvp run away from the brutix and deimos as fast as you can, neither of them are worth anything except in highly specialized situations.
The myrm is viable, but I havent seen one in a fleet in years.
The ishtar, as stated, is somewhat of a unique boat for pvp due to its sentries/heavies. Alot of fun to fly, but it isnt necessarily a pwn mobile.
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Batelle
-Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.05.31 03:14:00 -
[8]
Originally by: RnDr Brain
bandwidth is not in m3 mate
you got me. Damn ccp for being so unimaginativev as to arbitrarily switch m3 to Mbit for this "bandwidth" bull****. The myrm had such potential.
Also I agree with the above poster, the deimos is better than the myrm for PVE, and if you don't have t2 sentry drones or heavy combat drones, you're probably better off with t2 blasters on your deimos. This is mostly against serpentis or gurista where you take advantage of the t2 resists. Against other rats you might find your tank lacking.
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EC-P8R... You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. |
Wraife
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Posted - 2011.05.31 07:07:00 -
[9]
Good to know Deimos is better than Myrmidon for Pve against Guristas/Serpentis but as I have T2 sentries I'm guessing that doesn't really matter
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Wacktopia
Dark Side Of The Womb
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Posted - 2011.05.31 09:33:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Wacktopia on 31/05/2011 09:35:43
Originally by: Wraife
(Ishtar, Deimos, Myrmidon, Brutix)
Depends what you want really (for PVP)...
Ishtar - Most flexible, agile, good lock time BUT expensive.
Myrmidon - Biggest tank, cheap, good fleet ship.
Deimos - Good dps, expensive, weak tank, will be primary.
Brutix - Massive DPS, cheapest, weak tank, will be primary.
Personally I would go Myrm because you can plate tank, active tank 3 reppers or shield tank it. It's cheap and can do decent DPS. Most people train and fit autocannons.
Ishtar is very nice but it is expensive and as a T2 hull may attract bullets a little more. With it's 5:5:5 layout it is so flexible and with a sebo or two will catch all sorts on gates for you.
For PVE go Ishtar.
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Precisionist
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Posted - 2011.05.31 17:22:00 -
[11]
Ishtar is nice FOR PVP sometimes, but seriously why would ppl fly it except for the speed/agility factor, I guess in a armor hac gang with logi's you would put armor but mostly speed when small non logi gang stuff. Because BC's will outclass you and are way cheaper.
Deimos is nice, for some stuff, like the above say very situational, I get 790 dps with a small shield buffer deimos, only way I would fly a Deimos(with tacklers), because if you going to armor tank it, brutix will outclass it.
Add tier 2 battlecruisers this game, screwed it up so much. When tbh all they needed to do was make the ferox have launcher bonus. Completely destroyed HAC tactics.
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Batelle
-Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.05.31 20:04:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Precisionist
When tbh all they needed to do was make the ferox have launcher bonus. Completely destroyed HAC tactics.
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EC-P8R... You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. |
Annie Anomie
Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.31 22:02:00 -
[13]
Depends what kind of pew pew.
Personally I think the Myrm is way under-rated and is actually a rather good PVP boat for some types of solo / small gang work.
It's got: A credible active tank, versatility of fitting, no gun bonus to waste, lots of mids, drone DPS.
You can mount an active tank on it that will tank a useful amount of DPS. If you go up against enemy/enemies that are buffer fit and can soak their DPS you will win obviously.
There's a few workable fits for it. This is good because it's nice not to be too predictable.
The lack of gun bonus means you can fit utility stuff without feeling guilty or whatever guns you fancy.
Lots of mids is good because you can mount e-war trickery and cap injector(s) to run your tank.
Drone DPS is good for solo or very small gang just because it's versatile. You can carry anti-frig, anti-cruiser, anti-BC+ and e-war in the same drone bay. A gun boat OTOH can find itself a bit ****ed if it runs into smaller ships for example.
All in all I think it's a fun and capable solo/small gang boat.
The downsides I guess are it's speed (it's not the fastest boat) and some of the basic flaws with drones: They get popped by sentry guns; They take time to reach their target.
The Domi is apparently pretty good too. I think the Ishtar is probably workable but canes keep getting away from me because of it's cap.
For bigger gangs you've got the problem of short gun range. The target will often be dead before you're in blaster range and/or your drones chug over. You can either fly something that can run them down or else try and make blasters a bit autocannon like with longer range (with Tracking Enhancers / Computers).
The brutix / deimos will sort of do faux AX thing but not as well as real AC boats obviously. The Rax is actually OK if you don't mind it dying early. It motors around quick-ish applying it's DPS reasonably well. The Deimos will do point range falloff but it's not a vaga basically.
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Archare
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Posted - 2011.06.01 09:11:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Archare on 01/06/2011 09:11:55
wrong thread
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SirusDeVirus
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Posted - 2011.06.01 10:22:00 -
[15]
Something else about the Myrm that a lot of players immediately throw out, but which can be quite powerful. You can fit it with Pulse Lasers. Why? Good falloff good optimal, just slightly better DPS than AC's and (in Meta 4's) about 90% cheaper. I fitted my entire Myrm with Meta4-TII stuff and Meta 4 Lasers for the cost of 2 meta 4 ac's. I put out higher DPS and at longer ranges, Nigh infinate ammo, and insta switch ammo. It takes a bit of trickery to get it cap usable and the tank is not OMFG at that point. But then again, if you cant kill it under a min it's gonna get reinforcements anyways, so you should run. lol
my 2 cents.
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