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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |

Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
207
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Posted - 2012.09.08 15:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
If anything this increases the need for tactical voting. If I want to vote for A (who I think has no chance of getting elected) but under no circumstances would vote for B (who A has listed as their alternate) I have to find a C to vote for. It gets even worse if I think neither A or B will be elected and I wouldn't vote for D who is B's alternate. Having to follow a complicated tree of vote reassignments in order to figure out who I might end up unwittingly supporting is stupid.
You either need to get the resources from CCP to do proper voting reform or not do it at all. Moving to something this stupid because you don't have the coding time is a terrible idea. |

Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
212
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Posted - 2012.09.08 15:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:I just wanted to state, for the record, that I could give no ****'s whether a Goon is elected to a future CSM. They represent a large portion of the active, involved player base, and most people would agree that if they can muster the most votes for a candidate, they deserve to be on the council.
Despite the hilarity of the Goons instantly invading the thread assuming that this is all somehow directed at them, that doesn't change the fact that players have been, for many elections now, frustrated with the electoral process and expressed desire to iterate upon it.
If you note the title of the thread, it is a call for discussion. You know, where you bring ideas and share them and discuss their merits. I hope we can all keep this in mind before we continue down the rabbit hole of stupidity that is either "You just want to suppress Goon influence" or "you just want to make sure you all get re-elected".
Perhaps you could comment on why this is a goal then?
Trebor Daehdoow wrote: 3) Reduce (but not eliminate) the advantages held by highly organized voting blocs. In the previous election, for example, one voting bloc did extremely sophisticated exit-polling; if they had chosen to use this information to efficiently split their votes, they could have won 3 of the top 7 positions on the CSM.
As far as I know no serious electoral reform has ever had "reduce the impact of voter and candidate organisation", why are internet spaceship governments special? Surely organised candidates make better CSM members and organised voters are more likely to have a greater investment in the process and the game in general. |

Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
218
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Posted - 2012.09.08 15:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Firstly wrote: That said, I wholeheartedly support election reform as the opportunity for large blocs to "lock down" CSM seats is an issue that is only growing more obvious with time. If left unchecked, this will become increasingly destructive to the integrity and legitimacy of the Council as the CSM grows in influence and relevance.
True, also the ability of the Republican and Democrat parties in the US to "lock down" states is an issue we desperately need to solve. |

Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
221
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Posted - 2012.09.08 15:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: This is just one proposal, out of a hundred ways to approach this, and everyone is certainly welcome to disagree about whether or not it is an improvement over traditional STV systems. Trebor's approach stems from his interest in keeping things simple.
A google search for "Candidate-Designated Single Transferrable Vote" returns this 5 hour old thread on the front page. Voting reform is quite a hot topic in a number of countries at the moment but you guys are the only people to even suggest something like this. Either you're smarter than every single politically minded person in the world or your idea is so stupid it was dismissed almost immediately in every serious discussion.
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: Assuming for a moment that any large entity was capable of and succeeded in achieving 3/14 seats on CSM. This is over 20% of council representation. I think most players can understand that there might be something unfair about any group that holds less than 20% of the player population covering 20% of the council. Does anyone see any reason for that discrepancy to exist, or have an explanation as to how that discrepancy benefits the players?
Every single member of the current CSM holds a higher percentage of the council seats than their percentage of players because of the abysmal voter turnout. These changes do nothing to alter that (and potentially make things worse due to being confusing as **** and throwing away votes needlessly). You're also assuming that a block of voters is putting forwards multiple candidates just for ***** and giggles rather than having a number of specialists they feel would meaningfully contribute to the CSM. |

Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
223
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Posted - 2012.09.08 16:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:As for myself being for or against this particular proposal? That depends on what I learn from the public discussion in this thread.
So you're saying you have absolutely no opinions of your own on the subject? |

Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
223
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Posted - 2012.09.08 17:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: Discussion about electoral reform has been kicked around for much longer than a few months, this is hardly some new, strange obsession of CSM7's. Players have been talking about this for years, and will very likely continue until we actually see electoral reform.
Unless you have a vote on electoral reform all you really know is a couple of people want electoral reform really loudly.
Two step wrote: Run the election like true STV, but people pick a candidate and that candiate's list becomes their STV vote. It would also be nice to support people picking their own STV vote list, but that would take more dev time on CCP's part.
Again I'll say, if you don't have the resources to do electoral reform properly, don't do it at all. |

Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
230
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Posted - 2012.09.08 17:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:stuff
Block voting is present in almost every current real world electoral system but none of them have tried to "solve" it. Why is it only an issue in internet spaceship politics? |

Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
236
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Posted - 2012.09.09 10:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
Sizeof Void wrote: 1. CSM seats are allocated to specific areas and issues in the game. One seat each is allocated to high-sec, low-sec, null-sec and WH space. Three seats are allocated to the highest-priority issues which CCP plans to deal with in the upcoming releases - this might be a POS issues seat, a frigate rebalancing seat, etc. CCP can opt to add more issue-specific CSM seats, as they choose.
I play the game entirely to touch myself while moving the breast size slider in the character creator. Where is my representative? |

Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
239
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Posted - 2012.09.09 14:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Just like when elected representatives move area boundaries, they are the elected representatives they need to knuckle down and make the call.
Because that works out so well http://i.imgur.com/wzkXy.jpg |

Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
253
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Posted - 2012.09.10 23:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:Sizeof Void wrote: After all, CSM is not intended to be a voting body, in of itself, and the CSM should not be allowed to internally prioritize issues presented to CCP, according to the private agendas of specific CSM members. The lobbyist and political party system doesn't work all that well in the US, with regards to optimally and efficiently prioritizing government resources, according to the benefit of the US population as a whole - I don't see why we, or CCP, would want to copy such a failure here.
every single csm member, even the most useless and most virulently opposed to goonswarm, have admitted that no goonswarm member who has been elected to the csm has ever done this, and have repeatedly championed issues that would help the game but hurt goonswar,
Its almost as if Goonswarm is an alliance of smart people who all vote for other smart people because they have good ideas.
Perhaps instead of regional constituencies we should do IQ constituencies. I mean there are really really stupid people who play Eve and we can't have them underrepresented on the CSM. |
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