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Ruthless Erection
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Posted - 2011.05.31 17:24:00 -
[31]
ISK Sink:
High-Sec: Insurance stays the same. Low-Sec: Insurance returns 50% Null-Sec: No Insurance.
Plex's jumped from 405m to 420m over night. People aren't giving away "free" subscription time. CCP had a semi-flawless system until people buy 100+ plex, and **** the market up.
Player A buys a ETC for 35$ USD. Player B buys for 405mill. CCP makes the 15$ Sub time for Player B, and Player A earns money in return for spending his real life cash.
CCP thought this out thoroughly until Aurum came about.
As someone who uses PLEX to pay for his sub time, I'm considering quitting EVE. The prices of PLEX are absurd, they shafted 0.0, they shafted missions, I make 26k less in L5 missions. It's ******ed at how they're doing things now. 6 months from now, what are they going to do next? Make Fighter Bombers only do 2k damage?
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Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.05.31 17:29:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Diomedes Calypso My main point: CCP can sell some isk via plex creation without creating inflation with tiny other steps that they take already.
CCp can sell some extra plex without costing them real $ doing so.
Very nice postset. I'll be mulling over it for a bit.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~
Tiericide |
Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.05.31 21:58:00 -
[33]
Now that everything died down a bit... still waiting to see what CCP is going to say about this.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~
Tiericide |
Aylara
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Posted - 2011.06.01 08:18:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Grey Stormshadow As I already suggested in some other thread...
As plex really isn't item, but 30 days of game time, special rules should be applied to prevent market manipulation of such product.
Most efficient method I can come up with is really simple.
Bind the PLEX to account after it has changed hands in game first time. This can happen thru market, trading, contract, looting or by any other available method.
No more investing to PLEX. All PLEXes bought by players are converted to game time. CCP sets up fixed low buy order. If demand for game time is low, people sell directly to that. Problem solved.
Next task... create more isk sinks. Change current npc driven ship insurance system to contract based player corp controlled one to help with the cause. Introduce progressive sov holding fees/taxes for 0.0 alliances to combat rmt/botting/insane renting fees/isk faucets... and so on .)
Ha ha ha, that would make PLEX hoarders furious Anyway, this is how I thought it's going to be when CCP talked about PLEX a long time ago.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.01 09:01:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Diomedes Calypso a lot of reasonable stuff with some assumptions
Hey, that's why I said they would "SLIGHTLY shoot themselves in the foot". Emphasis on the slightly. I merely said what I said as a statement of fact, if you chose to take it as me expressing any overly negative connotations, that was an assignment of your own creation, reading far too much between the lines. But other than that, I can't really disagree with much else you said
For instance, yes, in the short run, CCP covertly selling PLEX to keep PLEX prices from spiraling upwards out of control would mean a short-term "opportunity cost" loss, but in the long run, it might foster a larger stable player base which will end up eating up more PLEX naturally - it's only a matter of just how many PLEX they'd have to "disperse for free" in a stealthy fashion (and for how long) to keep prices within certain limits which would keep enough additional people in play in the long run. If they'd have to keep doing that on a regular basis for the foreseeable future and in non-negligible amounts, then it wouldn't be worth the bother, since, well, what's the point (in fact, it could very well end up as a net loss of income). If instead they'd only need small quantities at widely spaced intervals, then it would be a net gain, a win-win situation. Problem is, it's hard to predict what would actually happen and what it would take to make the more desirable option happen, if at all possible. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Sisohiv
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2011.06.01 09:37:00 -
[36]
They have bigger troubles.
I had a heck of a time running 2 clients on duality and it was client side, not server. Docking and undocking one while the other one mined. That was on low/ off settings for everything.
Alts are going to lose appeal if the game keeps eating ram like it does. It doesnt matter if the second account is free if you can't run it. Think, people wont be able to neutral, RR in Jita no more either |
Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.06.01 15:41:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Sisohiv They have bigger troubles.
I had a heck of a time running 2 clients on duality and it was client side, not server. Docking and undocking one while the other one mined. That was on low/ off settings for everything.
Alts are going to lose appeal if the game keeps eating ram like it does. It doesnt matter if the second account is free if you can't run it. Think, people wont be able to neutral, RR in Jita no more either
Well I'm not crying over spilt alts. They should almost be considered exploits in a lot of scenarios.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~
Tiericide |
clixor
Celluloid Gurus
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Posted - 2011.06.02 10:53:00 -
[38]
Let go back to the basics. The supply of PLEXes need to be increased, CCP can't do that themselves, we've passed that stage. The ONLY instrument CCP has to persuade people to buy PLEX with cash is to lower the price.
Ofcourse CCP is reluctant to do that as they would be effectivelaty reduce subscription fees.
So the whole *CCP intervening in the PLEX market* and *monitoring ...* is a whole big joke if not just a lie.
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Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.06.03 07:17:00 -
[39]
I don't think CCP is dumb enough to sell PLEX out of thin air with nothing to show for it on the balance sheet. So they must have something else in mind...
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~
Tiericide |
Medidranda Livoga
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Posted - 2011.06.03 07:51:00 -
[40]
For PLEX availability to expand alot I think sell price of about 500m is where it is at. I would definitely consider selling couple if I could get a billion isk for two timecards. Below that, nope. I`m sure there are plenty of people who have similar threshold.
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Florestan Bronstein
draketrain Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.06.03 08:16:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 03/06/2011 08:23:04
If CCP's hopes for Incarna work out we will get many new players and more newbies means higher PLEX supply (CCP even emails all new accounts a few days after creation to tell them about the ability to buy ISK by selling PLEX).
Why start crazy market interventions (and distribute free subscriptions) over a problem that might work itself out over a month's time anyways.
You don't intervene in a market if you know that market will face a shock very soon (and are not extremely sure about direction/magnitude of that shock) - you wait for the shock to materialize and then try to respond.
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Mnengli Noiliffe
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Posted - 2011.06.03 08:23:00 -
[42]
are you people blind?
PLEX prices are ALREADY being controlled!
look at them, they used to rise like crazy and now they are actually falling. it used to be 404 on buy order and 414 on sell, now its less than 400 buy orders and less than 410 on sells.
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Florestan Bronstein
draketrain Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.06.03 08:26:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 03/06/2011 08:26:22
Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe are you people blind?
PLEX prices are ALREADY being controlled!
look at them, they used to rise like crazy and now they are actually falling. it used to be 404 on buy order and 414 on sell, now its less than 400 buy orders and less than 410 on sells.
maybe they are, maybe they are not
That's the beauty of expectations... if people feel that PLEX prices may be too high any trader can just start setting up very small quantity orders at lower prices that look somehow artificial and everyone will go into "OMG CCP MARKET CONTROLZ" mode and plex prices fall.
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Astroka
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Posted - 2011.06.03 09:06:00 -
[44]
I have concerns about why devs rarely post in threads like this, but will get involved in a threads about, say, putting beer in a soda stream.
Originally by: Ioci Welcome to the bustedness of EVE.
1 guy can disband a 2000 man alliance and wipe out trillions, that's cool. Give back a noob 10 mill? No, that's game breaking.
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.03 09:55:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 03/06/2011 09:57:36
The aghast makes no sense. The price of PLEX is rising because demand is outstripping supply, if they become too expensive demand will fall as will the price. The whiners are clearly the minority otherwise the price would not be rising. QED.
The recent extra demand is a direct result of speculation with regard to upcoming Incarna release and vanity items. This is rather ironic, because the concerns about other uses for PLEX was that real life wealth should not result in an in-game advantage. When what seems to be happening is the opposite, in-game wealth looks set to fuel vanity item demand.
In regards to intervention, the suggestion it was "blurted out" which implies it was accidental. When it was clearly one of the key objectives made as the culmination of an important part of the presentation. Watch the video on youtube if there is any doubt.
There were several important clues as to the mode of intervention. They were seen as an outstanding success because PLEX trading was a growth area in price and volume. Therefore it would make no sense for the intervention to be a CAP. The most like intervention would be price support if there was a price crash.
That should not be a cause for concern because we are already suffering from a period of deep deflation, so anything that improves liquidity would be a very good thingÖ.
PLEX are a great source of liquidity for the wider player base. They transfer the liquidity from the liquidity trap at the top of the large alliances, which have fat wallets but need PLEX to support the armies of management and logistics alts necessary.
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clixor
Celluloid Gurus
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Posted - 2011.06.03 10:01:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Wyke Mossari Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 03/06/2011 09:57:36
The aghast makes no sense. The price of PLEX is rising because demand is outstripping supply, if they become too expensive demand will fall as will the price. The whiners are clearly the minority otherwise the price would not be rising. QED.
PLEX is like food, people will need to eat, even with higher food prices people need to buy it. Sure, people will stop buying them, if they run out of isk. And after that they probably won't ever activate that account again (most likely will sell the character).
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.03 10:38:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Astroka I have concerns about why devs rarely post in threads like this, but will get involved in a threads about, say, putting beer in a soda stream.
Company policy, obviously. You can't have one dev posting something that's only his personal opinion regarding game design/balance choices, even if he clearly states it to be so, you'd only get people riled up like mad even if his proposals would be awesome (or, worse, if his proposals turn out to be awesome but never implemented due to lack of manpower, or any other number of things that can go wrong). To not post personal opinions but official statements, you need to sign the triplicate YTEC534-b form, sign it in blood, present it on a moonless night to your shaman, do 50 backflips in a row and water the azalea growing on the top of the volcano. Then allow 2 weeks for processing. It's no wonder most of the devs will post with their dev characters in threads that are inconsequential, but not in threads where the debate is heated and there is no CCP full consensus yet. When there is, blogs or newsitems appear.
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.06.04 14:33:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
The aghast makes no sense. The price of PLEX is rising because demand is outstripping supply, if they become too expensive demand will fall as will the price. The whiners are clearly the minority otherwise the price would not be rising. QED.
As far as I am aware, this thread is not about the PLEX market specifically. It is about CCP's own statement that they may or may not be planning to interfere with it.
Quote: The recent extra demand is a direct result of speculation with regard to upcoming Incarna release and vanity items. This is rather ironic, because the concerns about other uses for PLEX was that real life wealth should not result in an in-game advantage. When what seems to be happening is the opposite, in-game wealth looks set to fuel vanity item demand.
And if CCP is planning to play SEC, then that is just another market that will be affected. You do realize that PLEX price fixing in many forms will create a locked in RMT value for ISK, right? CCP will actually be endorsing it indirectly.
Quote: In regards to intervention, the suggestion it was "blurted out" which implies it was accidental. When it was clearly one of the key objectives made as the culmination of an important part of the presentation. Watch the video on youtube if there is any doubt.
Blurted or blatant, it makes little difference. CCP must lay out the plan they have in motion. There is a large potential for a player exodus over this and I think most of the other people want to have some idea of what might happen to our 30-50 BN ISK investments.
Quote: There were several important clues as to the mode of intervention. They were seen as an outstanding success because PLEX trading was a growth area in price and volume. Therefore it would make no sense for the intervention to be a CAP. The most like intervention would be price support if there was a price crash.
That is an assumption. We already know CCP is not as market savvy as they appear to be. So confirmation on what exactly they intend is required. CCP ignoring this issue is tantamount to telling us our worst case scenario is in fact, the route they intend. They give us no alternative until they clarify everything.
Quote: That should not be a cause for concern because we are already suffering from a period of deep deflation, so anything that improves liquidity would be a very good thingÖ.
Yes and no, while technically the value of ISK does inflate, since the total volume increases exponentially, the market typically shows an opposite effect.
Quote: PLEX are a great source of liquidity for the wider player base. They transfer the liquidity from the liquidity trap at the top of the large alliances, which have fat wallets but need PLEX to support the armies of management and logistics alts necessary.
Wouldn't they want to know what might happen to their own bottom line?
You can't really argue against disclosure on something like this.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~
Tiericide |
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