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Atticus Fynch
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.05.31 07:11:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Atticus Fynch on 31/05/2011 07:15:30 Seems bounty hunting is the bastard child of EVE since no one wants to address it.
Last i heard, it is severely broken since players can profit from their own deaths by having a buddy kill them, then split the proceeds. Hardly a "punishment" tool for wrong doing and as a revenge mechanism...well you may as well just give your target the isk in your account.
If it ever is fixed, EVE would suddenly become a much more "friendly" place IMO.
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Lidia Prince
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.05.31 07:18:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Lidia Prince on 31/05/2011 07:19:05 Bounty hunting could be a real awesome thing to do in EVE, I would definitely go with it if there was any profit in doing it. The problem is... bounty hunting CANNOT be fixed in ANY way. That's how it is. No matter what you'll change, fix or buff/nerf, people will exploit this system and it would never work properly.
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Makko Gray
Nexus Aerospace Corporation
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Posted - 2011.05.31 07:23:00 -
[3]
How about suggesting a solution or fix yourself?
I can see that it's not going to be an easy system to fix that would be fair to all with the amount of alts and buddies people have.
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Atticus Fynch
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.05.31 07:30:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Atticus Fynch on 31/05/2011 07:36:28
Originally by: Makko Gray How about suggesting a solution or fix yourself?
I can see that it's not going to be an easy system to fix that would be fair to all with the amount of alts and buddies people have.
The issue with bounty hunting is that EVE provides clones and ship insurance, so you dont really lose anything by losing your life/ship. The only thing I can think of that would make people run away in terror in fear of having a bounty placed on them is....
....losing skill points.
The hunter gets the isk, and the victim loses an amount of skill points proportional (say a percentage) to the bounty amount.
Respect for bounty hunters would reach an all time high.
EDIT2:
To keep this from being exploited, bounty placement would be limited to people who have suffered a loss (life) to the intended victim.
In other words, if character Joe Blow messes you up then pods you, you have the right to place a bounty on him/her.
Originally by: Lidia Prince Edited by: Lidia Prince on 31/05/2011 07:19:05 The problem is... bounty hunting CANNOT be fixed in ANY way.
That's what they said about distinguishing BPOS and BPCs in EVE way back when they both had the same icons.
It's magically fixed now isnt it?
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Poisson Violent
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Posted - 2011.05.31 07:55:00 -
[5]
It's a great idea to make bounty usefull again.
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.05.31 08:01:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Lidia Prince Edited by: Lidia Prince on 31/05/2011 07:19:05 Bounty hunting could be a real awesome thing to do in EVE, I would definitely go with it if there was any profit in doing it. The problem is... bounty hunting CANNOT be fixed in ANY way. That's how it is. No matter what you'll change, fix or buff/nerf, people will exploit this system and it would never work properly.
Ofc bounty hunting can be fixed. Several good fixes have been proposed and utterly ignored by CCP.
One simple change that would prevent alt-exploiting is to base the individual payout on ship destruction rather than pod destruction, and limit the amount paid out to a fraction of the post-insurance cost of the ship. So if the perp is in a battleship, the payout might be say 5 or 10 mill. If the perp has a higher bounty than this, then only that fraction of the bounty is paid out.
Pod bounty would be limited to the cost of the clone the perp was in.
As easily as that, you greatly limit the possibility of alt-abuse.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Lidia Prince
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.05.31 08:08:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Lidia Prince on 31/05/2011 08:09:44
Originally by: Atticus Fynch
Originally by: Makko Gray How about suggesting a solution or fix yourself?
I can see that it's not going to be an easy system to fix that would be fair to all with the amount of alts and buddies people have.
The issue with bounty hunting is that EVE provides clones and ship insurance, so you dont really lose anything by losing your life/ship. The only thing I can think of that would make people run away in terror in fear of having a bounty placed on them is....
....losing skill points.
Hey, you have to make it hurt somehow.
The hunter gets the isk, and the victim loses an amount of skill points proportional (say a percentage) to the bounty amount.
Respect for bounty hunters would reach an all time high.
EDIT2:
To keep this from being exploited, bounty placement would be limited to people who have suffered a loss (life) to the intended victim.
In other words, if character Joe Blow messes you up then pods you, you have the authorization to place a bounty on him/her. So I guess "podding" would be the distinguishing factor and would be balanced with the punishment since arbitrary podding could result in skill loss if you dont have an updated clone anyway.
Originally by: Lidia Prince Edited by: Lidia Prince on 31/05/2011 07:19:05 The problem is... bounty hunting CANNOT be fixed in ANY way.
That's what they said about distinguishing BPOS and BPCs in EVE way back when they both had the same icons.
It's magically fixed now isnt it?
I was wrong, this is GREAT idea actually. Not ideal, but actually the one that might work. There was one mission where agent said that your target will be cut off from clones to kill him completely. Something like that can be done on any capsuleer then, just with less harsh consequences.
You accept the contract and if your target will be killed by you while the contracs is active, target will lose some procent from their SP, or will be train-blocked for some time.
Quote: To keep this from being exploited, bounty placement would be limited to people who have suffered a loss (life) to the intended victim.
This, or capsuleers with security status of 5.
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CCP Spitfire
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.31 09:57:00 -
[8]
Hello,
There are indeed plans to revamp the bounty system in the future (see this post by CCP Greyscale for more details.
Spitfire Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online |
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Lidia Prince
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.05.31 10:05:00 -
[9]
Originally by: CCP Spitfire Hello,
There are indeed plans to revamp the bounty system in the future (see this post by CCP Greyscale for more details.
Quote: Bounty system revisit - yes, this is something we want to do. We're a gritty space game that doesn't let you be Han Solo (or Greedo), which is somewhat foolish
Not much details there, but thanks =D
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Gangster101 PureLove
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Posted - 2011.05.31 10:06:00 -
[10]
Players with alts: make sure you main character used its jump clone (don't want to lose any of those precious plant seeds) and take him on out to low. Have your alt come to its location for some pew pew action and you just rewarded yourself with a nice little bounty.
Dang that is right... the bounty office is basically who's cool enough to place isk on their own character b/c being 'wanted' is just epic!
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clixor
Celluloid Gurus
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Posted - 2011.05.31 10:17:00 -
[11]
A good past proposal was to introduce a bounty agent, which gives you missions. They select from a pool of pilots with bounties on their head what would it make it almost impossible to ALT kill.
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Tobiaz
Spacerats
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Posted - 2011.05.31 10:19:00 -
[12]
The bounty system hasn't been changed much since the beginning of the game. I hardly expect it to change anytime soon really. Bounties are more of a vanity thing for -10 players, most of the ones I know wouldn't dream of podding themselves to collect the bounty.
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Riley Moore
Sentinum Research
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Posted - 2011.05.31 10:23:00 -
[13]
Here's an idea:
If a player has 1,000,000,000 bounty on them, and you kill their ship you get 10% of his insurance cost (of the ship). He will not only get his insurance -10% (this way, no money is created) and the same value as that 10% will be subtracted from his bounty. It'll even work as an isk sink!
Podding no longer awards bounty or something.
You can't really fix it any other way considering alt accounts. ---
Sentinum Research Store |
Kyo Makamoto
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2011.05.31 11:17:00 -
[14]
Jeez, it's an easy fix. Just make killrights tradeable. Put a contract up with your killrights - I am sure somebody will buy it!
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Ayieka
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Posted - 2011.05.31 11:44:00 -
[15]
bounty hunting + immortals = dumb. unless we introduced spacejail.
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Drykor
Minmatar Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2011.05.31 12:02:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Riley Moore Here's an idea:
If a player has 1,000,000,000 bounty on them, and you kill their ship you get 10% of his insurance cost (of the ship). He will not only get his insurance -10% (this way, no money is created) and the same value as that 10% will be subtracted from his bounty. It'll even work as an isk sink!
Podding no longer awards bounty or something.
You can't really fix it any other way considering alt accounts.
This is actually a pretty good idea. Though tbh I think it should be 100% of the insurance, or no one is gonna bother, I mean what is the max insurance you can even get.. maybe like 150M.. so going all over the galaxy for 15M wouldn't work. --- Drykor - AHARM |
Millie Clode
Amarr Insert Cool Name Here
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Posted - 2011.05.31 12:10:00 -
[17]
Extend the killrights system to allow podding. Allow players to trade their killrights. Original owner of killrights sets the fee for the execution ---------- Who, me? |
Agent 42
Gallente The. Unit.
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Posted - 2011.05.31 12:28:00 -
[18]
I love the idea of being able to sell killrights.
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Guttripper
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.05.31 13:01:00 -
[19]
What if the bounty pay-out is matched and paid out by the one with the bounty on his or her head?
Example: I annoy Player A and they place 100,000,000 ISK bounty on my head. The 100,000,000 ISK paid by Player A is taken out of the game through Concord or the bounty hunter office. Over time, my luck runs out and Player B pods me. The 100,000,000 ISK price tag is taken out of my wallet and given to Player B. Since our wallets seem to be interlinked throughout the universe, the transfer of ISK should be within the realm of gaming.
Now people might claim this could be exploited since ISK is created out of nothing, especially if the bounty places the podded into a negative wallet. So CCP sets the account into a non-biomass nor a non-transferable state until the wallet is positive once again.
Allow the transfer of kill rights through contracts and those that gather bounty picking on small fish might find themselves on the other side on one much more powerful without the wallet means of escape.
Just a thought.
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Adrie Atticus
Tactical Vendor of Services and Goods Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
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Posted - 2011.05.31 13:15:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Guttripper What if the bounty pay-out is matched and paid out by the one with the bounty on his or her head?
Example: I annoy Player A and they place 100,000,000 ISK bounty on my head. The 100,000,000 ISK paid by Player A is taken out of the game through Concord or the bounty hunter office. Over time, my luck runs out and Player B pods me. The 100,000,000 ISK price tag is taken out of my wallet and given to Player B. Since our wallets seem to be interlinked throughout the universe, the transfer of ISK should be within the realm of gaming.
Now people might claim this could be exploited since ISK is created out of nothing, especially if the bounty places the podded into a negative wallet. So CCP sets the account into a non-biomass nor a non-transferable state until the wallet is positive once again.
Allow the transfer of kill rights through contracts and those that gather bounty picking on small fish might find themselves on the other side on one much more powerful without the wallet means of escape.
Just a thought.
If I have 4 billion ISK and I get a 40 billion ISK bounty on my head, I will be at -36 billion ISK in about 5 seconds. How would that work out for anyone?
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
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Posted - 2011.05.31 13:17:00 -
[21]
Yep... current bounty system is flawed as it is pretty much exploitable by using alt / friend.
There has been some suggestion before, but even they seem to have similiar problems. The best I've seen so far is the one, where bounty is tied to value of equipment which gets destroyed during the kill... However this still is exploitable with insurance system and you can get also get rid of the bounty by doing so.
My approach, like so many others, comes yet again from contract system. This really would open whole new level of possibilities to mercenary corps/pilots, like would the insurance system too, if it was converted similiar way...
Anyways bounty contracts would work like this;
1. Player/corporation/alliance (referred as instance from now on) sets up bounty contract against another instance. Contract can be simple kill order or for example order to inflict 3 billion isk equipment damage to some corporation. Contract will also have time limit and collateral just like the courier contracts now.
2. Contract is up and all the trigger happy mercenaryinstances have possibility to apply for it.
3. Contractor will accept some (one) instance which has applied to actually execute the contract.
4.1 If contract has not been completed during time limit, contractor will pay collateral amount to contractor and contract expires.
4.2 If contract has been completed during time limit, contractor pays to contractor as agreed in contract.
The benefits in this system are at least following:
- Target doesn't even know that he is targeted, unless he has been following all the bountycontracts what have been made. - Contractor gets to pick the instance who will do the work. - Mercenaryinstances get whole new way to make isk.
Recomended supporting features:
- Statistics from bounty contracts listing executing instances and their contract completion percentages and inflicted damage as isk. - Statistics from bounty contracts listing executing instances and their contract failure percentages and paid collateral as isk. - Statistics from bounty contracts listing contractors and their contract completion percentages and paid rewards. - Statistics from bounty contracts listing contractors and their contract failure percentages and claimed collateral.
Thats about it... constructive comments are always welcome.
------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :) |
Adrie Atticus
Tactical Vendor of Services and Goods Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
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Posted - 2011.05.31 13:38:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Adrie Atticus on 31/05/2011 13:38:53
Originally by: Grey Stormshadow Thats about it... constructive comments are always welcome.
Involved: Corp1 Corp2 Mercenaries
Corp1 sets a bounty of 10 kills against Corp2 with time limit of one week, reward at 500 million and collateral at 2 billion. Mercenaries accepts the contract, Corp1 tells Corp2 that they should go offline for a week now. Week passes, mercenaries have to pay the collateral, Corp1 and Corp2 share the 2 billion ISK and continue to do their daily routines. Of course both Corp1 and Corp2 are disposable alt-corps.
How to eliminate this?
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.05.31 13:43:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Ghoest on 31/05/2011 13:43:47 Payouts need to be capped at (clone cost) + (implant value) + (uninsured value of ship)
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Guttripper
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.05.31 13:46:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Adrie Atticus If I have 4 billion ISK and I get a 40 billion ISK bounty on my head, I will be at -36 billion ISK in about 5 seconds. How would that work out for anyone?
The person that paid out the 40 billion ISK bounty would be out 40 billion ISK - Concord or the bounty office would have this money.
You get blasted and whomever collects your bounty would gain 40 billion ISK.
You still owe 40 billion ISK for your own bounty (so yes, each bounty would actually be worth twice its amount). So if you owe without enough funds, your wallet goes into the negative range. You can not biomass your character nor sell your character in this state. If you decide to just let your character idle, there is no faucet since the amount was already paid originally.
I look at this as a harsh money sink. Besides the amount someone placed upon you, you are matching the same amount. The higher the amount, the greater your personal challenge to not get the bounty collected.
Perhaps a stipulation that the bounty placed upon your head can only be from someone you yourself podded. At the time of "death", a snap shot is taken of the podded person's wallet with the highest bounty amount they can cash out potentially being their liquid ISK at that moment. Thus you podding my alt will not allow me to dump billions from my main into your bounty. Whatever meager amount my alt had at the time of the pod cracking is the most _I_ could push into your bounty.
Again, just an idea that could be fleshed out further.
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
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Posted - 2011.05.31 13:47:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Adrie Atticus Edited by: Adrie Atticus on 31/05/2011 13:38:53
Originally by: Grey Stormshadow Thats about it... constructive comments are always welcome.
Involved: Corp1 Corp2 Mercenaries
Corp1 sets a bounty of 10 kills against Corp2 with time limit of one week, reward at 500 million and collateral at 2 billion. Mercenaries accepts the contract, Corp1 tells Corp2 that they should go offline for a week now. Week passes, mercenaries have to pay the collateral, Corp1 and Corp2 share the 2 billion ISK and continue to do their daily routines. Of course both Corp1 and Corp2 are disposable alt-corps.
How to eliminate this?
um... how about not accepting contract like that as it is apparently a scam :) ------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :) |
Joe Skellington
Minmatar JOKAS Industries Matari Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.31 13:54:00 -
[26]
Why not just put out your own bounty for the corpse and killmail? Seems like the current bounty system is a joke. Who cares about a "Wanted" label.
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Adrie Atticus
Tactical Vendor of Services and Goods Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
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Posted - 2011.05.31 14:01:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Adrie Atticus on 31/05/2011 14:01:12
Originally by: Guttripper
Originally by: Adrie Atticus If I have 4 billion ISK and I get a 40 billion ISK bounty on my head, I will be at -36 billion ISK in about 5 seconds. How would that work out for anyone?
The person that paid out the 40 billion ISK bounty would be out 40 billion ISK - Concord or the bounty office would have this money.
You get blasted and whomever collects your bounty would gain 40 billion ISK.
You still owe 40 billion ISK for your own bounty (so yes, each bounty would actually be worth twice its amount). So if you owe without enough funds, your wallet goes into the negative range. You can not biomass your character nor sell your character in this state. If you decide to just let your character idle, there is no faucet since the amount was already paid originally.
I look at this as a harsh money sink. Besides the amount someone placed upon you, you are matching the same amount. The higher the amount, the greater your personal challenge to not get the bounty collected.
Perhaps a stipulation that the bounty placed upon your head can only be from someone you yourself podded. At the time of "death", a snap shot is taken of the podded person's wallet with the highest bounty amount they can cash out potentially being their liquid ISK at that moment. Thus you podding my alt will not allow me to dump billions from my main into your bounty. Whatever meager amount my alt had at the time of the pod cracking is the most _I_ could push into your bounty.
Again, just an idea that could be fleshed out further.
Then everyone will fly with a zero wallet and just use an alt to hold their money.
Edit: at least when they want to pod someone, you can easily transfer the cash out to your alt when you are killing the guy or have scrammed his/her pod.
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captainwang
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Posted - 2011.05.31 14:08:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Agent 42 I love the idea of being able to sell killrights.
I like this too but wouldnt it spawn a whole lot of alt noobs purposley baiting and being easy prey just so they can trade the KR to their main who then goes fighting? Hardly different from what happens now.
On the plus side it would make you think before opening up your guns.
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Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams The KWFL Republic
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Posted - 2011.05.31 14:14:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Atticus Fynch Edited by: Atticus Fynch on 31/05/2011 07:45:04 Edited by: Atticus Fynch on 31/05/2011 07:43:34
Originally by: Makko Gray How about suggesting a solution or fix yourself?
I can see that it's not going to be an easy system to fix that would be fair to all with the amount of alts and buddies people have.
The issue with bounty hunting is that EVE provides clones and ship insurance, so you dont really lose anything by losing your life/ship. The only thing I can think of that would make people run away in terror in fear of having a bounty placed on them is....
....losing skill points.
Hey, you have to make it hurt somehow.
The hunter gets the isk, and the victim loses an amount of skill points proportional (say a percentage) to the bounty amount.
Respect for bounty hunters would reach an all time high.
EDIT2:
To keep this from being exploited, bounty placement would be limited to people who have suffered a loss (life) to the intended victim.
In other words, if character Joe Blow messes you up then pods you, you have the authorization to place a bounty on him/her. So I guess "podding" would be the distinguishing factor and would be balanced with the punishment since arbitrary podding could result in skill loss if you dont have an updated clone anyway.
Originally by: Lidia Prince Edited by: Lidia Prince on 31/05/2011 07:19:05 The problem is... bounty hunting CANNOT be fixed in ANY way.
That's what they said about distinguishing BPOS and BPCs in EVE way back when they both had the same icons.
It's magically fixed now isnt it?
I like this idea very much.
Although instead of restricting it to people who pod you, the system should just give diminishing returns on isk, so a higher amount would give a lower percentage of SP loss. You could also bring something in like a 'prime' version of your clone, which would have the stat '-50% SP loss on termination if user has bounty'. Just make it an option to upgrade your current clone at a medical bay, I'm sure CCP wouldn't mind bringing in another ISK sink anyway.
Definitely wouldn't want to make it possible to cripple a char by putting a huge amount of ISK bounty on it.
I'd also like a bounty hunter stat on the char sheet somewhere with this, where you can see how much bounty you've collected from capsuleer kills.
...oh wait
Stunning EVE Online Theme for PS3 |
Valek Noor
Amarr Eternal Phoenix Rises
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Posted - 2011.05.31 14:16:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Grey Stormshadow Yep... current bounty system is flawed as it is pretty much exploitable by using alt / friend.
There has been some suggestion before, but even they seem to have similiar problems. The best I've seen so far is the one, where bounty is tied to value of equipment which gets destroyed during the kill... However this still is exploitable with insurance system and you can get also get rid of the bounty by doing so.
My approach, like so many others, comes yet again from contract system. This really would open whole new level of possibilities to mercenary corps/pilots, like would the insurance system too, if it was converted similiar way...
Anyways bounty contracts would work like this;
1. Player/corporation/alliance (referred as instance from now on) sets up bounty contract against another instance. Contract can be simple kill order or for example order to inflict 3 billion isk equipment damage to some corporation. Contract will also have time limit and collateral just like the courier contracts now.
2. Contract is up and all the trigger happy mercenaryinstances have possibility to apply for it.
3. Contractor will accept some (one) instance which has applied to actually execute the contract.
4.1 If contract has not been completed during time limit, contractor will pay collateral amount to contractor and contract expires.
4.2 If contract has been completed during time limit, contractor pays to contractor as agreed in contract.
The benefits in this system are at least following:
- Target doesn't even know that he is targeted, unless he has been following all the bountycontracts what have been made. - Contractor gets to pick the instance who will do the work. - Mercenaryinstances get whole new way to make isk.
Recomended supporting features:
- Statistics from bounty contracts listing executing instances and their contract completion percentages and inflicted damage as isk. - Statistics from bounty contracts listing executing instances and their contract failure percentages and paid collateral as isk. - Statistics from bounty contracts listing contractors and their contract completion percentages and paid rewards. - Statistics from bounty contracts listing contractors and their contract failure percentages and claimed collateral.
Thats about it... constructive comments are always welcome.
this could work and actually prove to be quite fun, would also give new corps an easy way to get themselves some mercs when dec'd in their early days.
this proposal gets my vote
There is no right or wrong, only consequences |
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