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Dinatra
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Posted - 2011.05.31 10:37:00 -
[1]
Super capitals are a huge problem in the game and are in their present form destroying both lowsec and nullsec. They are being hotdropped on everything, even solo cruisers/battleships running missions. I think the solution to this problem would be to significantly reduce the mobility of these ships, either jump ranges, exponential jump fuel requirements (resulting in far greater logistics required when moving them) and/or time between jumps greatly increased.
Alliances would then have to strategically place their capital fleets in their conquered space and would also have to do massive logistical planning in order to wield them when conquering new space.
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Ivana Twinkle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.31 10:59:00 -
[2]
Delete all ships except Laser Rifters from eve.
Problem solved
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Acac Sunflyier
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.31 13:01:00 -
[3]
There is something off with supers. It bothers me that titan doomsday can't even get through half a Nyx's shields. And then a titan takes a half hour to bring down. In EFT the titan has 57 million ehp. That's a ton of health! Not to mention that there are so many super caps out. I think they should immediately have their production resource requirements doubled. I was in the tribute fight and the DFR/PL/Raiden group fielded 28 titans. TWENTY EIGHT titans in one area just kills the fight. But then again, if I was in a titan, and paid that much isk to get into one and paid that much in subscription fees I'd want the 57 million ehp. [url=http://fusion.eve-kill.net?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=767426] [/url] |
scotty551
UK Corp -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.05.31 13:06:00 -
[4]
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Schani Kratnorr
x13 Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.05.31 13:21:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Schani Kratnorr on 31/05/2011 13:23:34 I once saw the exact same thing being said about Battleships.
"battleships are way too overpowered. They are being used to engage single cruisers and frigates. out in 0.0 they roam around in huge blobs, they cannot be stopped, and it is killing the game."
That was 2004-2005'ish...
Granted, the jump-drive mechanic does make a difference. But then again Capital ships consume fuel when moving, so it all evens out in the end.
add. for those unaware. At the moment there is a great deal of manufactured controversy surrounding super capitals. Most of that comes from people who have failed to accumulate enough of them to mount an effective defence of their space. As with almost all failing empires they will attempt to find an outside cause rather than look inwards. On the whole it will always be possible for one entity to get out blobbed by another. The ship types are secondary, some people on the receiving side will always lament their fate.
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Narisa Bithon
Caldari The Motley Crew Reborn
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Posted - 2011.05.31 13:26:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Acac Sunflyier There is something off with supers. It bothers me that titan doomsday can't even get through half a Nyx's shields. And then a titan takes a half hour to bring down. In EFT the titan has 57 million ehp. That's a ton of health! Not to mention that there are so many super caps out. I think they should immediately have their production resource requirements doubled. I was in the tribute fight and the DFR/PL/Raiden group fielded 28 titans. TWENTY EIGHT titans in one area just kills the fight. But then again, if I was in a titan, and paid that much isk to get into one and paid that much in subscription fees I'd want the 57 million ehp.
its possible to get an aeon's ehp upto 70 mil
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Acac Sunflyier
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.31 13:38:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Schani Kratnorr Edited by: Schani Kratnorr on 31/05/2011 13:23:34 I once saw the exact same thing being said about Battleships.
"battleships are way too overpowered. They are being used to engage single cruisers and frigates. out in 0.0 they roam around in huge blobs, they cannot be stopped, and it is killing the game."
That was 2004-2005'ish...
Granted, the jump-drive mechanic does make a difference. But then again Capital ships consume fuel when moving, so it all evens out in the end.
add. for those unaware. At the moment there is a great deal of manufactured controversy surrounding super capitals. Most of that comes from people who have failed to accumulate enough of them to mount an effective defence of their space. As with almost all failing empires they will attempt to find an outside cause rather than look inwards. On the whole it will always be possible for one entity to get out blobbed by another. The ship types are secondary, some people on the receiving side will always lament their fate.
We're talking about Super Capitals. where one ships takes an average fleet about 20 minutes to bring down 1 and then you find that there are 15 more on the field.
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Schani Kratnorr
x13 Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.05.31 13:52:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Acac Sunflyier We're talking about Super Capitals. where one ships takes an average fleet about 20 minutes to bring down 1 and then you find that there are 15 more on the field.
You math is wrong and here is why. *IF* you have a bunch of super capitals yourself, you use them to remove the enemy super capitals.
I've seen titans vanish in minutes and super carriers in seconds. It is all relative to the amount of firepower you bring. Maybe *your side* are not able to do much about twenty of them. But since someone else might have the numbers, *your* lack of numbers are not a valid argument for design change (which is what I sense you really want to talk about.)
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Naga Elohim
Amarr The Reformed Bondage Patrol
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Posted - 2011.05.31 13:54:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ivana Twinkle Delete all ships except Laser Rifters from eve.
Problem solved
I approve of this!
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Riley Moore
Sentinum Research
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Posted - 2011.05.31 14:09:00 -
[10]
A battleship blob has many counters (bombers, ahacs, tengus if done right, etc)
A supercap blob has only one counter; more super caps.
We've reached a point where a force can field 100+ supers in any battle they so desire. You would need to bring thousand(s) of battleships to even attempt it. That's not good game design. ---
Sentinum Research Store |
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Caldari Acolyte
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Posted - 2011.05.31 14:34:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Riley Moore A battleship blob has many counters (bombers, ahacs, tengus if done right, etc)
A supercap blob has only one counter; more super caps.
We've reached a point where a force can field 100+ supers in any battle they so desire. You would need to bring thousand(s) of battleships to even attempt it. That's not good game design.
Bingo.
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Riley Moore
Sentinum Research
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Posted - 2011.05.31 14:38:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Caldari Acolyte
Bingo.
What did I win?
---
Sentinum Research Store |
Kaisi13
Minmatar Broken Chains Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.31 14:39:00 -
[13]
Y not put a Corp/Alliance limit to the number of Super capitals and or Carriers that can be in any one system.
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Diablo Ex
Caldari Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
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Posted - 2011.05.31 14:42:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Diablo Ex on 31/05/2011 14:48:04 Looking at the situation from a "real world" perspective, there is a reason why huge battleships have become mere support vessels to carrier fleets. The use of fighters and fighter/bombers. And there is a big difference in EvE which can tip the balance. incorporate a form of "Station/POS" based Fighter/Bomber that can defend against enemy fighters and fighter/bombers. Also, give Stealth Bombers a weapon that is effective against Supercaps and Titans, say a 1 mil dp Bomb twice the size (1 per rack) meant to target stationary structures and Super Capitols (real slow 20sec flight time bomb). Something that a sub-capitol if paying attention can reasonably avoid.
Edit: Also, allow "Strategic Cruisers (T3)" to use these bombs, and mount multiple bomb racks, as their role is basically Strategic.
________________________________ I want a button that will force you to undock out of the station so I can shoot you.
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VCBee 2fast2furious
Aliastra
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Posted - 2011.05.31 14:43:00 -
[15]
From the horse's mouth:
Originally by: CCP Greyscale Well... basically caps are balanced (more or less) and supercaps are imbalanced. It's something that needs to be fixed sooner rather than later.
Originally by: CCP Greyscale T2 capitals - we've got plenty of work to do on existing capitals (balance, more fitting options etc) before we get around to making even more powerful version
Originally by: CCP Greyscale Yeah, supercarriers in particular just flat-out need a nerf, I think this is obvious to everyone.
Enjoy it while it lasts.
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Riley Moore
Sentinum Research
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Posted - 2011.05.31 14:43:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Kaisi13 Y not put a Corp/Alliance limit to the number of Super capitals and or Carriers that can be in any one system.
Artificial limits in a game that advertises sandboxyness is bad design. That's the equivalent of finding catpoop in your sandbox.
---
Sentinum Research Store |
Acac Sunflyier
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.31 14:49:00 -
[17]
Perhaps they should also, on top of increasing super cap fuel cost and mineral build cost, double the production time
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VCBee 2fast2furious
Aliastra
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Posted - 2011.05.31 14:55:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Acac Sunflyier Perhaps they should also, on top of increasing super cap fuel cost and mineral build cost, double the production time
Increasing build costs and/or time on existing ships only serves to seperate the haves from the have nots and makes it harder for new groups to build up the necessary fleet to compete with the existing established powers.
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yani dumyat
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2011.05.31 15:06:00 -
[19]
The problem isn't the ships in themselves, it's how they're built.
Each time CCP introduces a new biggest class of ship they say their numbers will be limited because the resources needed to build them are so vast they will only be alliance toys, a theory that only works if resources are limited. In eve however resources are unlimited, asteroids replenish and moons never run out of goo.
What this means is that the real arms race is among miners and industrialists, you can put that in to an equation:
Number of super caps = number of miners x efficiency of miners.
As you can see the only real limit is the number of miners and their efficiency, this has led to a proliferation of both bots and supercaps. If CCP insist on on using player ability to extract resources as a limiter for supercap production there really is no other outcome.
My own solution would be to have a special component required for supercap production. It would be found through exploration and have a limited drop rate. Only through this kind of rarity will you keep the biggest ships in the game an 'OMG they deployed a titan' type experience.
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Iceni
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Posted - 2011.05.31 15:28:00 -
[20]
I think the real issue is that ships only have a build cost. Once you've got it, it costs nothing to run. Except if the ship has jump-drives of course.
What about crew wages, docking fees, fuels for warping and sub-warp flight, maintenance, essential supplies like food for the crews, oxygen for the internal atmosphere etc.
We have to pay monthly fees for renting a corp office, why not for owning a ship? Every ship should have running costs, and the bigger the ship, the greater the running and servicing costs. This would add a much-needed isk-sink, and give people a greater incentive to use T1 and smaller ships more often.
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yani dumyat
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2011.05.31 15:30:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Iceni I think the real issue is that ships only have a build cost. Once you've got it, it costs nothing to run. Except if the ship has jump-drives of course.
What about crew wages, docking fees, fuels for warping and sub-warp flight, maintenance, essential supplies like food for the crews, oxygen for the internal atmosphere etc.
We have to pay monthly fees for renting a corp office, why not for owning a ship? Every ship should have running costs, and the bigger the ship, the greater the running and servicing costs. This would add a much-needed isk-sink, and give people a greater incentive to use T1 and smaller ships more often.
In such a scenario what is the limiting factor other than the number of bots you can run?
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BeatMeChecker
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Posted - 2011.05.31 15:35:00 -
[22]
It's just the way they can be build!!!!!
It's soo ****ing easy that even a single person can build them alone
just get a JF full of Railguns and reprocess them in 0.0 and u have the minerals for a SCAP/Titan... and that shoudn't be! it's way too easy |
Jaari Val'Dara
Caldari Deep Space Nomads Corp
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Posted - 2011.05.31 15:53:00 -
[23]
Originally by: yani dumyat
My own solution would be to have a special component required for supercap production. It would be found through exploration and have a limited drop rate. Only through this kind of rarity will you keep the biggest ships in the game an 'OMG they deployed a titan' type experience.
I like this. The only problem is that EVE already has way too many SC's, so if that new component were released it should not be dropped until a certain number of SC's were killed. But that would seriously screw over those who have no SC's yet and help those who have ****load of them.
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Mavinha
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Posted - 2011.05.31 16:11:00 -
[24]
how about a new skill that is required for a corp to have capital ships, each level increases the amount you can possess, or at least active at one time. im sure there are flaws with the idea but at the end of the day, the only ways youre going to control this is with an artificial cap or a ridiculous nerf.
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Doshan Ri
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Posted - 2011.05.31 16:31:00 -
[25]
Self destruct a Tempest near the hydrazine tanks.
Extra bonus if you eject your pod and survive the blast, a red couch to go in you cq
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Yulith Luss'Ferus
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Posted - 2011.05.31 16:42:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara
Originally by: yani dumyat
My own solution would be to have a special component required for supercap production. It would be found through exploration and have a limited drop rate. Only through this kind of rarity will you keep the biggest ships in the game an 'OMG they deployed a titan' type experience.
I like this. The only problem is that EVE already has way too many SC's, so if that new component were released it should not be dropped until a certain number of SC's were killed. But that would seriously screw over those who have no SC's yet and help those who have ****load of them.
If the rare item were to be introduced immediately (as opposed to after X supercaps had been destroyed from EVE), the initial drawback would be that newcomers would have a harder time making supercaps where the big guys still had theirs. However, given time and enough fighting, the existing supercap population would start to drop off and the population of supercaps would balance itself out, as long as the item(s) that were rare are rare enough to prevent people from overly farming them.
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NickyYo
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Posted - 2011.05.31 16:47:00 -
[27]
Of all seriousness, this sounds like a great idea!! (+1 to the OP)
Decreasing supercap jump range will infact make 0.0 space more larger, If you have a brain think about it.
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Ocypete
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Posted - 2011.05.31 16:51:00 -
[28]
the super cap arguement is very much like the cold war; in order to win you just have to have more of the most destructive weapons on earth/in eve
Not quite MAD, but not far off.
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SirHorace
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Posted - 2011.05.31 17:02:00 -
[29]
I dont know if many of you guys realize, these alliances that are fielding 100 supers and all that are HUGE alliances. lets do some math real quick. lets say this huge alliance has 2000 players. corp taxes and stuff is at say 15%. with everyone ratting for 1 hour (least 20m in a bc) 20m*.15=3m per hour per person at a decent rate. 3m times say... 1000 people ratting for one hour. 3b her hour on that through taxes. Average super is what 50b? thats only a little over half a day of 1k people ratting. Now, increasing minerals and all that doesnt change anything. Just makes it take a few hours longer. say we double the price of a super. that only a day and a half of ratting. Just a few thought gems.
let the flames commence
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Coldhearted One
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Posted - 2011.05.31 17:07:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Coldhearted One on 31/05/2011 17:07:59 that's one way of doing it. but how about those wanting super carriers, just get some killer miners, maybe supply them with Rorqual(s) support and some defense and let them tear up them sweet beautiful rocks. Then let your Capital construction builders go to town and build them bad boys. you got to give some to get some. you pvpers be surprised if you give some carebears some love, appreciation and some gratitude, what would you would get in return. A bloody hellacious super carrier fleet. unless, of course, you would all rather mine it all yourself and build it yourself. make some ties to some empire(oops, did I say that dreaded word) indy corps and allow them to tear up the belts and make you some scs in return you defend them while they do it and let them get some juicy minerals for themselves at the same time. don't be scared now. and don't be lowlife weasels and pod them after they build you a few MOMs. have soem honor.
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Valator Uel
Caldari Mercenaries of Andosia Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.31 17:29:00 -
[31]
All I hear is "waaa waaa we have nothing to counter SC's". How about being creative and finding a solution that doesn't involve nerfing. The people whining about supers are those who feel impotent against them. You perceive supers a huge problem because there is nothing you can do against them. However if you were in the position of using 100 supers you would. Other people are also shouting nerf because they think that these things are free. They are not, they are expensive ships. Not only the price of the hull, but the price of fuel (it costs 10-20b to move a SC fleet across regions or the universe), the price of an extra account because nobody keeps a SC on their main, the effort to keep it safe because they cannot dock, etc, etc. These things take effort and isk to keep.
Seriously, so why does everyone think that nerfing Supercaps will solve anything. At best you make a ship totally useless by creating hypothetical solutions that don't solve the perceived problem. How about you actually ADD something to the game that counters Supercaps? There are so many things you can do to reduce their effectiveness, how about creating ships and/or mods that will make people think twice about fielding Supercaps?
Sure, this means CCP will have to actually do some work instead of simply manipulating item property numbers. But that's how you improve the game by adding content instead of nerfing a ship that only those who never use them whine about.
Some random ideas: - For instance, a T2 tier 3 BS that functions like the Arbiter in Starcraft (area cloak), but only to ships in siege mode. If they keep this ship alive it'll be a serious threat to SC's who can't target sieged dreads/triaged carriers against them. - Boost dread defense against SC's. - Ships that can complete strategic objectives but are practically immune to Citadel Torps yet just as vulnerable to everything else as normal ships. "lol bring as many SC as you want, this thing we're doing is still happening". - Ships that decreases the amount of bombers a SC can communicate with, causing X bombers per affected SC to return to drone bay and forcing the SC to switch to Fighters or regular drones. - Ships or mods that render a SC invulnerable for X minutes but also incapable of doing damage itself and stuck in space for those X minutes. - Or how about the motherofgod of EVE improvements: subsystem targeting. Shoot the drone bay doors and suddenly the bombers cannot return. Shoot jump drives and the SC will be stuck in the system unless a specialised ship comes to repair it. Shoot the cloaking device and now the SC is really ****ed. - A special kind of bomb, like a flash bang, that immobilises bomber pilots for X seconds/minutes (they are afterall normal pilots, not pod pilots). - Etc...
These are just random ideas and of course would need balancing. The point is to give the counter (instead of nerfing them) which doesn't involve more supers.
Be creative instead of ****ing whining ******s.
------------------ Support PLEX for SpaceHobo! Send a random hobo into space! |
Deadloch
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Posted - 2011.05.31 17:36:00 -
[32]
As everyone has realized, inflation is not just limited to ISK. People are mining 23.5/7 There's so many resources flying around. So many BPOs flying around. If you recall back in the day, "Sniper Battleships" were the IN thing. Virtually unable to be destroyed... Then Carriers became big. Everyone and their uncle was flying Carriers... Then Dreadnought fights began.. They were FEARED!! Huge DPS decent tanks... Now it's the land of the SuperCarrier. When you see Carriers being used for ratting on a CONSISTANT basis, you have to realize everyone in EVE is getting richer and richer. You certainely can set the bar higher for all this big nasty ships, but eventually the economy will catch up to them and make them affordable in combat.
It's ironic that peeps now don't like the fact PL has dropped numerous SCs on targets all over the place in Hot Drops and now everyone is starting to see how powerful they are.
If you want to limit the ISK inflation, start making more ISK sinks. Insure only up to Battleships... That sorta thing.
Create a recession!!
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Enuen Ravenseye
Malevolence. Imperial 0rder
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Posted - 2011.05.31 17:38:00 -
[33]
Resource decay and redistribution. (Even SWG was smart enough to have that, ffs.)
Problem (actually many problems) solved.
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Kalle Demos
Amarr Helix Protocol
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Posted - 2011.05.31 17:40:00 -
[34]
Or you could just change the mechanics of EVE so that sov warfare involves focusing on different systems and not a ****ty station where everyone and their cat sits and ****s .
LETS POST ON CAOD GANG! |
DZeeta
E-Peen Hunters
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Posted - 2011.05.31 18:15:00 -
[35]
How to fix the issue? Introduce something(doesn't have to be a new ship) that can effectively take down super carriers(and all the other capitals). If they would have something that can effectively kill them but not the smaller ships, then it would greatly reduce their usage. Could be some "jump drive jam-bomb" whatever..
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Deadloch
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Posted - 2011.05.31 18:36:00 -
[36]
Why not then add a flower cannon for the Carebears so they can stare down the Super Caps... Geez.. |
Speaker4 theDead
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Posted - 2011.05.31 20:12:00 -
[37]
Look at all the NC alt posting......
It was ok when you had the biggest Cap fleet. But now that you can't get most of your SC's to log in, much less fight, it's suddenly unfair? The NC could outdo the numbers that they are seeing, they simply can't get the people to risk their shiny toys. So this post isn't really about SC's, it's about NC living large for years, and now they are going to lose their cush position....
You have to wonder just how much RMT is going on in 0.0 now. Will people lose their "Jobs" over this? Is this simply a drive to employ more people? You have to wonder sometimes where all this isk goes....
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Grath Telkin
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.31 22:55:00 -
[38]
Hey I heard it takes a half an hour and 50 battleships to kill a super cap
Unfortunately this guy didn't get that memo and died in about 4 and a half minutes.
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Cregg Neir
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Posted - 2011.08.24 00:10:00 -
[39]
Eliminate super caps and refund isk to players who own them. It's a stupid class of ship. Bigger and bigger and bigger is not better. Might return some strategy to the game. Other than the logistics of organizing big groups of pilots, I mean.
Give poses a doomsday weapon useful against super caps and give it a huge range.
Develop a strong small ship designed to destroy super caps.
Give super caps a 1 light year range.
Make them travel by use of a special type of cyno that requires more training and maybe three or four pilots to implement.
I hate super caps. I want a super cap. I hate big fleets. I want a big fleet.
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Simon Falls
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.08.24 01:50:00 -
[40]
Supercaps and Titans are fine: Give POS / Stations real 'teeth' vs. Supercaps/Titans Point, Neut, EWAR and real DPS effective against Supercaps/Titans (Stationary fortifications should be at their prime against mobile Supercaps/Titans.)
Allow sub caps to fly under the guns and tracking of POS's (unless equipped to deal with sub caps).
Allow sub caps to deploy mines effectively and any prick of a sub cap to point Supers. That will eliminate the problem. Fights should be about logistics.
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Demon Azrakel
Gallente Defiant.. Narwhals Ate My Duck
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Posted - 2011.08.24 02:14:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Grath Telkin Hey I heard it takes a half an hour and 50 battleships to kill a super cap
Unfortunately this guy didn't get that memo and died in about 4 and a half minutes.
Involved parties: 85 (3) Nyx (1) Aeon (1) Naglfar (1) Avatar (1) Phoenix (6) Drake (2) Hurricane (1) Thanatos (2) Hound (22) Abaddon (6) Unknown (3) Purifier (1) Prowler (3) Megathron (3) Zealot (1) Legion (4) Tempest (1) Vagabond (1) Loki (1) Phobos (1) Stabber Fleet Issue (1) Dramiel (6) Devoter (1) Broadsword (2) Sabre (1) Damnation (6) Guardian (1) Flycatcher (1) Stiletto (1) Eris
There were neither fifty ships, nor were all of the dps ships battleships (bolded some things). Aeon was fit rather cheaply.
Here is a suggestion: make supers (hell, all ships) require 10% (or 5% or w/e) to warp at all, so a unreppable hictor in lowsec is no longer the only way to keep a mothership or titan tackled (pretty hard to tackle one that can just follow a rolling safe and easily stops a hictor or several (yes, I know, get a massive group with a large number of hictors and your own super blob and you are set...)).
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Ethan Bejorn
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.08.24 02:45:00 -
[42]
If CCP nerfs super caps, I want a refund on my 30B isk ship (with fit) and skill points returned for everything I invested in it.
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Hugh Mungous
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Posted - 2011.08.24 02:56:00 -
[43]
I like this game a lot, but everyone's just going to quit (and no one new will join). SCs need a nerf, not to weaken them persay, but to add a little risk and fun.
Supercarriers require a siege module to deploy fighterbombers (same limitations as dreads, all other drones unchanged)
Fighterbombers can't attack structures (or maybe just sov structures)
And something new for capital tackle... A carrier module that works like a long range focused point against capitals only (but would also prevent the carrier from being doomsdayed) Or and interdiction fighter, deployable from carriers that mount an interdiction fighter control unit (max of one to three deployed per carrier at a time). Each interdiction fighter mounts a focused point, 20 km orbit, only effective against capital ships.
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XIRUSPHERE
Gallente Deadly Intent.
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Posted - 2011.08.24 06:20:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Ethan Bejorn If CCP nerfs super caps, I want a refund on my 30B isk ship (with fit) and skill points returned for everything I invested in it.
They are getting nerfed it's already been stated, you chose to invest the ISK and SP for some of the lowest risk carebear combat in the game. Live with it.
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P42ALPHA
Gallente nul-li-fy B O R G
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Posted - 2011.08.24 07:56:00 -
[45]
The only time I have ever found a super cap to be a problem in low, was when I was stupid enough to hang around for his 40 second lock. You want to fight a fortress and win. Play mario.
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AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.08.24 08:59:00 -
[46]
Love the tears from all the poor people who cant afford a super.
It's the pirates breakfast of champions
______ Important stuff up there ^ ^ |
Mr Plack
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Posted - 2011.08.24 09:11:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Mr Plack on 24/08/2011 09:13:59 Why is it even a problem that supers are supposedly so good? If they're that great then why don't you buy one and go rock the game? Oh right, it's because you suck and would lose it on the first hotdrop.
It's easy to whine about how OP other people or alliances are when those people or alliances are risking ships that cost more then all the ISK you ever earned in EVE put together.
Basically it's just envy.
It was the same with other ships a few years ago. An alliance that could field 20 carriers was the king before everyone else also got 20 carriers.
It's the same with motherships now.
If you can't take the heat then get out of the fire. (And by extension: if you can't defend your space from 70 supers then you clearly don't deserve to own the space.)
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Kunming
Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E Xenon-Empire
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Posted - 2011.08.24 09:27:00 -
[48]
Remove tech-moons and suddenly alliances dont have the free ISK to build these.
Atm its like this for those that dont know it:
- Alliance sets up POS, moon mining tech moon, this is an automated process - Moon goo is turned into ISK - ISK is turned into minerals - Minerals brought down to 0.0 with jump freighters - SCs build with brought minerals that were financed with "free ISK" from moon-goo
Take moon goo away and suddenly alliances have to tax, or run alliance ops, etc to finance these monsters, and ONLY then will these become rare as their intended design suggest.
CCP, why are you constantly repeating the same design mistake (I think Einstein once said, stupid ppl are those, that try the same thing and expect a different result), if something is wildly popular its most possibly because it has no reasonable way to be countered. Why do we see SC blobs? Because they are overpowered. When is something overpowered? When the only way to counter the OP element is to bring more of the OP element of your own.
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Kunming
Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E Xenon-Empire
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Posted - 2011.08.24 09:30:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Ethan Bejorn If CCP nerfs super caps, I want a refund on my 30B isk ship (with fit) and skill points returned for everything I invested in it.
Why so u can put those SP and ISK into the next OP thing?.. LOL u knew they were gonna get nerfed sooner or later, you reaped the rewards long enough and now u want a refund.
Its like I bring back a used condome to the store and demand a refund!!
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Jin Endashi
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Posted - 2011.08.24 09:34:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Doshan Ri Self destruct a Tempest near the hydrazine tanks.
Extra bonus if you eject your pod and survive the blast, a red couch to go in you cq
+100000
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Dr Offensive
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Posted - 2011.08.24 11:56:00 -
[51]
A good way to limit cap ships is to have upkeep costs for keeping them active and available. 50 million a day to keep a titan active sounds fair to me.
Owners can avoid upkeeps costs by mothballing thier ships.
If you want to get your cap ship out of mothball it takes 2 days for a nyx, 5 days for a titan etc. After that its active again.
Any one that has insufficient ISK to upkeep thier cap ship gets it mothballed automatically.
There, problem solved
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Tammarr
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Posted - 2011.08.24 13:14:00 -
[52]
my money is on time dilation and coordinated bomber runs.
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Spectre80
Caldari The Knights Templar Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.08.24 13:15:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Schani Kratnorr
Originally by: Acac Sunflyier We're talking about Super Capitals. where one ships takes an average fleet about 20 minutes to bring down 1 and then you find that there are 15 more on the field.
You math is wrong and here is why. *IF* you have a bunch of super capitals yourself, you use them to remove the enemy super capitals.
I've seen titans vanish in minutes and super carriers in seconds. It is all relative to the amount of firepower you bring. Maybe *your side* are not able to do much about twenty of them. But since someone else might have the numbers, *your* lack of numbers are not a valid argument for design change (which is what I sense you really want to talk about.)
your defensive posture for supercaps is understandably biased as part of Raiden and X13 corporation you are very supercap heavy and very dependant of these ships.
KILL ALL SUPERS
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A Little Girl
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Posted - 2011.08.24 14:28:00 -
[54]
Rename them to frigates. Get rid of all other ships. Introduce new ones which are 10x bigger using the new frigates as the starting ships. Also make stations 10x bigger.
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Sister Evian
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Posted - 2011.08.24 14:57:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Sister Evian on 24/08/2011 14:59:07
As a super cap pilot myself I would suggest the following ...
1) Super caps / Titans unable to travel anywhere apart from 0.0, (personally, I would actually go as far as banning normal dreads and carriers from low-sec) and then maybe more people would go to low-sec without getting hot dropped by 200 caps.
2) POS's Having real teeth and weapons ....... its so sad people are killing POS's with stealth bombers ... De-cloak, Fire, Cloak .... rinse and repeat.
3) Increase the build cost by x 10 (both titans and Supers) ..... I ran hoards for 3 weeks "alone" and refined enough minerals for a Super ..
4) Get rid of high end moons ..... there a license to print isk and without it .... then the super / titan fleets will slowly shrink (with also increasing the build costs.)
Just my view ....
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T'Laar Bok
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Posted - 2011.08.24 16:03:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Schani Kratnorr As with almost all failing empires they will attempt to find an outside cause rather than look inwards.
You mean like the good ol' U.S.A?
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dreamingtoday
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Posted - 2011.08.24 16:18:00 -
[57]
Make them a 0.0 toy only! Boost dreads so they can take them on
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Packe
Minmatar Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2011.08.24 16:24:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Packe on 24/08/2011 16:24:43 Supers are mainly used to kill sov and pos structures and other caps.
Their usage will get nerfed to a certain extent simply by changng the machanics of sov. No more 10s of millions of ehp to chew through, which, frankly, is a waste of everyones time. If the damage becomes more focused on >1000 sig radius objects, then you can effectively reduce their utility without having to add clumsy game rules.
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Spectre80
Caldari The Knights Templar Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.08.24 16:35:00 -
[59]
its ridiculous that blob of supers can reinforce a bloody outpost in just a few minutes... and thats just a tip of the iceberg. supers are being dropped atm everywhere by a whim. on couple battleships or frig gang or whatever. seriously come on.
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Vawd
Caldari Tax Evasion Ltd
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Posted - 2011.08.24 16:48:00 -
[60]
Just give bombers the ability to do a "trench run" where they fly along the hull of the ship and shoot torps at a small exhaust port. If the run is successful, the super cap is instantly destroyed.
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Alina Wize
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.08.24 16:57:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Valator Uel
Some random ideas: - For instance, a T2 tier 3 BS that functions like the Arbiter in Starcraft (area cloak), but only to ships in siege mode. If they keep this ship alive it'll be a serious threat to SC's who can't target sieged dreads/triaged carriers against them. - Boost dread defense against SC's. - Ships that can complete strategic objectives but are practically immune to Citadel Torps yet just as vulnerable to everything else as normal ships. "lol bring as many SC as you want, this thing we're doing is still happening". - Ships that decreases the amount of bombers a SC can communicate with, causing X bombers per affected SC to return to drone bay and forcing the SC to switch to Fighters or regular drones. - Ships or mods that render a SC invulnerable for X minutes but also incapable of doing damage itself and stuck in space for those X minutes. - Or how about the motherofgod of EVE improvements: subsystem targeting. Shoot the drone bay doors and suddenly the bombers cannot return. Shoot jump drives and the SC will be stuck in the system unless a specialised ship comes to repair it. Shoot the cloaking device and now the SC is really ****ed. - A special kind of bomb, like a flash bang, that immobilises bomber pilots for X seconds/minutes (they are afterall normal pilots, not pod pilots). - Etc...
These are just random ideas and of course would need balancing. The point is to give the counter (instead of nerfing them) which doesn't involve more supers.
Be creative instead of ****ing whining ******s.
mind=blown
Seriously guys, I'd like to read more cool ideas like this. Quit being babies, almost all of you will never fly a scap to begin with, let's focus on killing them instead.
death to all supercaps
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Om Maniu
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.08.24 18:16:00 -
[62]
A solution to the super cap issue is to sort cyno's out.
Once you pop a cyno it should take a period of time to expand to full size, during which you can get smaller ships through instantly but caps wouldn't be possible until a few minutes into the cycle and supers even longer after that.
The entire hot drop mechanic has needed looking at for a long time.
Also log out times need to change - once a super is aggressed, it shouldn't be able to log out until 15 minutes of non-aggression, if it continues to get shot at by players, it should stay until it dies.
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Alina Wize
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.08.24 18:28:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Om Maniu A solution to the super cap issue is to sort cyno's out.
Once you pop a cyno it should take a period of time to expand to full size, during which you can get smaller ships through instantly but caps wouldn't be possible until a few minutes into the cycle and supers even longer after that.
The entire hot drop mechanic has needed looking at for a long time.
Also log out times need to change - once a super is aggressed, it shouldn't be able to log out until 15 minutes of non-aggression, if it continues to get shot at by players, it should stay until it dies.
I really like your cyno idea. I also agree about aggression. If you're infinite pointed, bubbled, and taking damage you shouldn't disappear off grid. This change should be a sweeping change for all ships tbh. Basically, if you get caught before you're able to warp or cyno out you're screwed. Regardless if you've dropped your internet connection (since it initiates warp).
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Schokoletta Kill0r
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Posted - 2011.08.24 18:35:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Schokoletta Kill0r on 24/08/2011 18:37:33 Edited by: Schokoletta Kill0r on 24/08/2011 18:36:05
Why not bring supers and titans in line with dreads and make them require a siege module to do full damage(On fighter bombers, capital guns and dds). That way they need to tank for themselves if they want to unleash their full damage potential and risk being shot by normal dreads while sieged.
Problem?
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chopps001
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Posted - 2011.08.25 00:25:00 -
[65]
A T2 "heavy" bomber but not able to use bomb launchers. Just make them a cruiser hull with torpedoes and heavy damage bonuses. Several being able to take out a super. While torps are only good against caps and bs fleets, a bs fleet can take on cruisers if it has recon support, fighters and fighter bombers can't hit cruisers. The supers would need a sub cap fleet to engage these heavy bombers and keep them away from the supers.
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Headerman
Minmatar Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.08.25 01:05:00 -
[66]
At present, titans and SCs are like BSs, where all other caps are like frigates and destroyers. You think CCp would have nerfed BSs if there were only Frigs, destroyers and BSs in the game? No. They made other ship classes to fill the gap.
The exact same thing needs to happen for caps. Stealth bombers, BCs, T2 ships etc are all viable counters to BSs. BSs are a viable counter to SCs too
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Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar Nomadic Asylum
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Posted - 2011.08.25 01:09:00 -
[67]
Creating new ships or classes to counter another class is fail.
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Mete Hurtado
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Posted - 2011.08.25 01:57:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Valator Uel
Some random ideas: - For instance, a T2 tier 3 BS that functions like the Arbiter in Starcraft (area cloak), but only to ships in siege mode. If they keep this ship alive it'll be a serious threat to SC's who can't target sieged dreads/triaged carriers against them. - Boost dread defense against SC's. - Ships that can complete strategic objectives but are practically immune to Citadel Torps yet just as vulnerable to everything else as normal ships. "lol bring as many SC as you want, this thing we're doing is still happening". - Ships that decreases the amount of bombers a SC can communicate with, causing X bombers per affected SC to return to drone bay and forcing the SC to switch to Fighters or regular drones. - Ships or mods that render a SC invulnerable for X minutes but also incapable of doing damage itself and stuck in space for those X minutes. - Or how about the motherofgod of EVE improvements: subsystem targeting. Shoot the drone bay doors and suddenly the bombers cannot return. Shoot jump drives and the SC will be stuck in the system unless a specialised ship comes to repair it. Shoot the cloaking device and now the SC is really ****ed. - A special kind of bomb, like a flash bang, that immobilises bomber pilots for X seconds/minutes (they are afterall normal pilots, not pod pilots). - Etc...
These are just random ideas and of course would need balancing. The point is to give the counter (instead of nerfing them) which doesn't involve more supers.
Be creative instead of ****ing whining ******s.
this is great, and ideas like these should be looked at to address the current situation.
a 'super' bomber is not the answer, these capitals are meant to be HOLY CRAP WERE ALL DOOOOOMED ships, it should take a 'not cheap' tweak of a current hull by the empires to look at combating scaps (and you would need at least 10+)
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Sloppy Podfarts
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Posted - 2011.08.25 03:02:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Ethan Bejorn If CCP nerfs super caps, I want a refund on my 30B isk ship (with fit) and skill points returned for everything I invested in it.
LOL
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