Originally by: Parallax Error

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What exactly is the current line of thinking on missile changes?

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Originally by: Marcus Aurelius

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Originally by: Parallax Error

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What exactly is the current line of thinking on missile changes?

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Indeed, wondering myself too about that.

As I see it there's two options:

- introducing sig radius effect to make large missiles do less damage to smaller targets then to bigger ones.

- fiddling aorund with individual missiles and their agility, range, damage and speed etc.

tbh option two would seem much preferable, since nr1 just makes no sense and still wont end the "one size fits all" problem that is missiles and launchers.

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Originally by: Brady

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Y'know a really simple fix would be to make missiles and torps slower, so that the small fast ships can escape em easily.

That pretty much is an agility modifier. Who's gonna shoot a torp at a frigate if the torp only does 500m/s?

What if small missiles did 1600m/s, and if cruise did only 700m/s.
This is only an example but it would make the missiles work the way they should.

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Originally by: Brady

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Y'know a really simple fix would be to make missiles and torps slower, so that the small fast ships can escape em easily.

That pretty much is an agility modifier. Who's gonna shoot a torp at a frigate if the torp only does 500m/s?

What if small missiles did 1600m/s, and if cruise did only 700m/s.
This is only an example but it would make the missiles work the way they should.

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Originally by: Hanns

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wow jim is back, is that the real jim?

if so, WB m8 missed your constructive posts about balancing etc..

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Originally by: Hanns

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just a few things that worry me for raven pilots, ok take this example, a frigate is webbed and stationary, and gets shot by a large turret, the turret will still hit it hard right because its not moving? but with the proposed missie changes, a torp will still hit the stationary frig for next to no damage?

Or if a frig is webbed by an intie, and theres a tempest 100km away, the tempest will waste the frig, but the raven will still do crapy damage, not enough to kill it the same as a apoc or tempest could.

basicly all turret battleships can fit sniper setups that can hit for full damage, but once the missile changes take affect, the raven will never be able to dea lfull damage to a smaller ship, no matter the circumstances.

this just dosent seem right.
*snip*
i have a feeling the missile changes are gonna hurt the caldari to much.

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Originally by: Face Lifter

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Heavy Missiles are pretty bad right now. They can't catch any MWDing frigs, they do about 15 dps with best launcher and skill. That's rather weak. And they don't have any special role. Even tho they can fly to 44 km, in PvP it's no use, not at their slow ass speed.

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Originally by: Sky Hunter

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Well im not that concerned about heavys cuz cruisers are always less used in pvp. Main is still frigs and BS.

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Originally by: Red Six

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Edited by: Red Six on 16/02/2005 01:07:16
Ok, dumb question and I'm not a noob by any means(not the worlds greatest pvp'er either) but why can any ship outrun a missle of any kind? That makes no sense to me. It makes even less sense that a torpedo does huge damage to a battleship but next to zero damage against frigates. The warhead does X points of damage target size should not matter.

I say double the speed of all missles and triple the speed of light missles. You'll have to adjust the flight time's to make sure we don't have light missles with 60Km range and such but that would be a simple matter to adjust.

You'll probably need to add something that makes them miss say the percentage to hit is something like this:

100% - target ships agility with skill modifiers*2 +/- 2% per size difference

Pure example numbers:

Target = Frigate (Size 1)(Agility 5 w/Pilot Skill bonus 10)
Missle = Cruise (Size 4)
To hit = 100 - 20(Agility with skills)- 6 = 74%

Target = Battleship (Size 5)(Agility 2 w/ pilot skill 4)
Missle = Light (Size 1)
To hit = 100 - 8 + 4 = 96%

Although you do have defenders and smartbombs for defense a frigate at least should be able to generate enough of a delta to generate a possible miss on a cruise missle and especially a torpedo. To give a frigate and even some of the more nimble cruisers like the Stabber a chance against torpedoes modify the formula to use 7% on the size difference but set the torpedo's size the same as the battleship.

Torpedo Example:
Target = Frigate (Size 1)(Agility 5 w/Pilot Skill bonus 10)
Missle = Torpedo (Size 5)
To hit = 100 - 20 - 28 = 52%

Target = Battleship (Size 5)(Agility 2 w/ pilot skill 4)
Missle = Torpedo (Size 5)
To hit = 100 - 8 - 0 = 92%

That gives a frigate basically a 50/50 chance against a torpedo but still maintains a high to hit percentage against battleships.

Anyhow that's my .02 ISK.

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Originally by: Ranger 1

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Its not your fault... you haven't been here for the months of discussion and trial and error on this issue.
The game engine doesn't handle missile agility well, missiles cannot be made to miss based on speed and agility of target properly. If it could, this would have been solved long ago.
All the mucking around with damage being lessened on smaller vessels is to "simulate" near misses, since we can't acutally make them happen.
And yes, we can go back to the old way where interceptors could always outrun cruise missiles (and of coures Torps), but then the missile boats were back at square one as far as never being able to hit them. Not to mention, if you make cruise missiles slower you make them even less effective at long range combat than they are now.

The proposed changes were:
1: Boost just about all missile speeds (especially cruise to enhance long range effectiveness).
2: Reduce large missile damage proportional to the sig radius and transversal velocity of the target. That way small vessels that were webbed and dead in the water, or approaching head on, take full (or nearly full) damage from the large missile. Vessels that were at top speed and actively evading or orbiting would take reduced damage to simulate them being fast and agile enough to not be hit directly.

This makes sense in a odd, workaround sort of way. And it would reduce the effectiveness of Ravens against smaller vessels while at the same time making them more of a factor against larger vessels at range. Of course they would always have the same option turret users have always had vs. smaller vessels (aside from the usual array of anti-frigate devices BS can field) and simply mount a couple of smaller sized weapons to deal specifically with frigate sized threats.

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Originally by: Selim

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Edited by: Selim on 16/02/2005 07:24:08
Something needs to be done to:

-Make missiles less powerful against smaller targets

-Make torpedos less powerful against short range ships (You can't fight one in a close range ship...)

-Make cruise missiles better for long range
a. must make sure to balance it with the tempest in terms of long range damage/range/fitting/tanking

-Make cruise launchers useful, and take cruise missiles away from siege launchers.

And maybe make missile users have to train for 6 months like turret users did to be just as good as them. Especially since missiles are weapons that you can use effectively while drunk, dead tired and blind.

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Originally by: Sky Hunter

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heh, jamming missles? thats pure great then. WHy we cant then jam turrets to miss completly even at optimal???

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