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DUST 514, PS3 exclusive, EVE Online, Aurum currency - a fan's letter.

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Tach Narrows Eden Security Intelligence	Posted - 2011.06.07 03:35:00 - [1] Dear population of New Eden, What is wrong with you? I would like to make some comments on the recent developments on EVE Online and it's sister console game, DUST 514 with a little digression into the reasons of CCP's decision to make it exclusively for the Playstation 3. I am not speaking on CCP's behalf, I am speaking as a fan who has enjoyed EVE Online for many years. And no, I am not affiliated with CCP in any legal/romantic/erotic way. Okay, I do love their faces and their work. It's starting to get weird, so let me approach it as serialized in the title. DUST 514 AS A console game AND AN EXCLUSIVE FOR THE PS3 Dust 514 is not the EVE-wrecker most of you believe it to be. It's a sister game of EVE Online, it complements it and completes it. It's on a console for a reason. Now, let's go on an L1 mission to find that reason. Let's just, for a second, pretend that Dust 514 is going to hit the PC platform. What the hell? It would be a STANDALONE EXPANSION PACK FOR EVE ONLINE. I swear, some of you are so dense you cannot comprehend such a simple matter. EVE Online was created for the PC. It's been with us for almost a decade, it has gathered a community, an audience of people who enjoy a full fledged space simulator/sandbox/grief-you-in-the-face experience. And CCP wants you to continue enjoying EVE Online as it is, they do not want to introduce something that would could have been easily integrated into EVE Online as an expansion pack. They want to do something different, something bold, something new. And in today's CALL OF DUTY 1000 industry, you people really have no damn respect for an innovative new approach or for a a company which that has devoted their entire existence to forwarding the dream of online spaceships, the dream you trolling, whining, unsatisfied douchebags share. They've finally got big enough for the big push, CCP is no longer only in Iceland, the team from Shangai has been hard at work delivering a satisfying DUST 514 experience for all the players who wish to give it a try. The fact they are doing more work on other fronts DOES NOT MEAN they are ignoring EVE Online. Quite the contrary. You just have to USE YOUR BRAIN. The Playstation 3 does not drive people away from the actual star here, EVE Online. That is why it is a console title, they wish to explore an another market of players who could be integrated into the New Eden experience and embellish the world for all of us. GET IT? I am a game developer myself and the thought of linking two facets of the same world on two different hardware architectures makes my skin crawl. But it's also f u c k i n g impressive. CCP has the balls to do what other companies shiver from doing. BUT WHY HAS THE XBOX 360 BEEN LEFT OUT?! WHY?! If you shut up for a moment, I'll try to simplify it for you. The XBOX 360 is technically inferior. You must be thinking inside: "OH, NO, HE DIDN'T!". Well, I did. Suck it up. It's a fact that the Playstation 3 as a hardware platform has much more juice than the Xbox 360. I am not a fanboy, I don't even own a console. It's just an objective comment. What CCP wants to do needs more juice. But that is not all, Xbox Live is very particular of what it does and does not allow. They are very skeptical about technically intense and unorthodox multiplayer approaches in general on their platform, which makes CCP's idea that many times more scary to them. Their policies won't allow for what CCP wants to do. Sony's will. Sony's had a big setback recently and they are ready to bring out the big guns and look for media attention. And the famous EVE Online's developer with a crazy new idea is a very good way to get attention. AURUM CURRENCY Shut up. Do you even read what you are given before you start trolling? AURUM WILL NOT ALLOW PLAYERS AN ADVANTAGE INGAME, THEY'LL JUST LOOK MORE BADASS. BUT THEY WILL DIE JUST THE SAME. That is all, this had to be said.
Herping yourDerp	Posted - 2011.06.07 03:37:00 - [2] PS3 is more powerful but the game was shown running on 360. meaning it was ported from 360 to PS3. your arguments are null and void.
Tach Narrows Eden Security Intelligence	Posted - 2011.06.07 03:39:00 - [3] One more thing, if someone brings up Sony's recent security failure... Think about it, many of you have been scammed in the past, when you were a beginner. You were burned once and you will not make the same mistake ever again. I don't like Sony that much, but I really appreciate what CCP is doing for the Universe we all enjoy and love. Show some support for their initiatives, try not to bash all the time. Anyways, best of luck CCP. That was my bit of common sense and fan courtesy.
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate	Posted - 2011.06.07 03:39:00 - [4] Originally by: Tach Narrows AURUM CURRENCY Shut up. Do you even read what you are given before you start trolling? AURUM WILL NOT ALLOW PLAYERS AN ADVANTAGE INGAME, THEY'LL JUST LOOK MORE BADASS. BUT THEY WILL DIE JUST THE SAME. I don't really give a **** about what you just posted; however I'm gonna go ahead and say that you are in all likelyhood wrong about the part that I quoted.
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate	Posted - 2011.06.07 03:40:00 - [5] Originally by: Herping yourDerp PS3 is more powerful but the game was shown running on 360. meaning it was ported from 360 to PS3. your arguments are null and void. You saw it being played with a 360 control; that in no way means the game was running on a 360. It was running on a computer.
Silas Cooper	Posted - 2011.06.07 03:41:00 - [6] OP's either a CCP dev alt or a moron. In case he's a troll then he put in far more effort than he'll get out of it. -- You can't cure stupid.
Tach Narrows Eden Security Intelligence	Posted - 2011.06.07 03:43:00 - [7] Edited by: Tach Narrows on 07/06/2011 03:44:16 Originally by: Herping yourDerp PS3 is more powerful but the game was shown running on 360. meaning it was ported from 360 to PS3. your arguments are null and void. You do understand that Unreal Engine 3 runs on every next generation platform and the PC? They can run it anywhere they want, but to publish it with all the freakish server interaction with the EVE Online's backend, they need a consent from Microsoft. A consent they won't get. And that's the part when Sony comes in. Are my arguments null and void or do you just lack valid information? @Silas - I have nothing against argumentative insulting, so try that.
Selinate Amarr Mocking Birds	Posted - 2011.06.07 03:43:00 - [8] Originally by: Tach Narrows AURUM CURRENCY Shut up. Do you even read what you are given before you start trolling? AURUM WILL NOT ALLOW PLAYERS AN ADVANTAGE INGAME, THEY'LL JUST LOOK MORE BADASS. BUT THEY WILL DIE JUST THE SAME. Where did you read this? Can you link something please? Because the Dust 514 website was very vague (as in, didn't say what type of items could be bought with isk or aurum at all) when I read it.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2011.06.07 03:43:00 - [9] the dev blog was quite clear. Aurum will be used to be NON vanity items in dust514. However the only different between the Aurm item and the normal item is, as you said, visual. But the aurum item would still be an offensive item that effects the game i dust. But dust 514 is free to play so it's ok. also that all AURUM items will be sellable for isk, in DUST514, by the players. Finally that players in dust514 can join eve corps. shared voice chat and all. both games will share a forum. epic drama incoming
Herping yourDerp	Posted - 2011.06.07 03:46:00 - [10] Originally by: Tach Narrows Originally by: Herping yourDerp PS3 is more powerful but the game was shown running on 360. meaning it was ported from 360 to PS3. your arguments are null and void. You do understand that Unreal Engine 3 runs on every next generation platform and the PC? They can run it anywhere they want, but to publish it with all the freakish server interaction with the EVE Online's backend, they need a consent from Microsoft. A consent they won't get. And that's the part when Sony comes in. Are my arguments null and void or do you just lack valid information? your argument was that it COULDNT run on xbox, when it clearly can. also, its unknown what MS would want to support dust, it might have been reasonable. you dont know that. it might have been as simple as " we want to approve of each update server side" or " we want to run server in between eve and the player"

Grey Stormshadow Starwreck Industries	Posted - 2011.06.07 03:47:00 - [11] Originally by: Tach Narrows AURUM CURRENCY Shut up. Do you even read what you are given before you start trolling? AURUM WILL NOT ALLOW PLAYERS AN ADVANTAGE INGAME, THEY'LL JUST LOOK MORE BADASS. BUT THEY WILL DIE JUST THE SAME. Um... This actually might not be true as AUR is used in Dust too and CCP has not stated to what kind of items AUR sales are limited there... However those items will be tradeable in market also and we don't actually know will EVE and Dust market combine in some point... So... let's leave the AUR discussion open still... ------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :)
Tach Narrows Eden Security Intelligence	Posted - 2011.06.07 03:48:00 - [12] Edited by: Tach Narrows on 07/06/2011 03:49:17 Originally by: Herping yourDerp Originally by: Tach Narrows Originally by: Herping yourDerp PS3 is more powerful but the game was shown running on 360. meaning it was ported from 360 to PS3. your arguments are null and void. You do understand that Unreal Engine 3 runs on every next generation platform and the PC? They can run it anywhere they want, but to publish it with all the freakish server interaction with the EVE Online's backend, they need a consent from Microsoft. A consent they won't get. And that's the part when Sony comes in. Are my arguments null and void or do you just lack valid information? your argument was that it COULDNT run on xbox, when it clearly can. also, its unknown what MS would want to support dust, it might have been reasonable. you dont know that. it might have been as simple as " we want to approve of each update server side" or " we want to run server in between eve and the player" It can't run on the Xbox 360 if Microsoft doesn't allow interaction beyond the very specific guidelines they provide. It's a common known fact. I can do all sorts of crap on the iPhone, but the AppStore review team will never let it on the AppStore, that's my point. And for a developer, that's a crucial point. On the topic of aurum and vanity items, the devblog is clear: Quote: So this thing is vanity items only? Yes. We will start out with a rather limited number of items initially, carefully measuring the demand and how it impacts the economy. As time progresses, we'll gradually introduce new items and revise our strategy. We've also discussed this issue in depth with the Council of Stellar Management and will both consult with them and keep them up to date every step of the way.
Selinate Amarr Mocking Birds	Posted - 2011.06.07 03:52:00 - [13] Edited by: Selinate on 07/06/2011 03:53:07 Edited by: Selinate on 07/06/2011 03:52:33 Originally by: Tach Narrows On the topic of aurum and vanity items, the devblog is clear: Quote: So this thing is vanity items only? Yes. We will start out with a rather limited number of items initially, carefully measuring the demand and how it impacts the economy. As time progresses, we'll gradually introduce new items and revise our strategy. We've also discussed this issue in depth with the Council of Stellar Management and will both consult with them and keep them up to date every step of the way. That's for Incarna.... For all you know, there might be a completely different model for Dust 514. "YouÆve asked a few things I canÆt delve too deeply into, but what I can comment on is what you said about virtual items and real money. DUST 514 will support purchases made through both in-game earned currency and real money currency." -CCP shadow answering a player on the playstation blog. In reality, you have no idea how aurum will affect this yet. However, I can say that if aurum is used in any way, shape, or form to gain an advantage, CCP will lose my subscription and never hear from me again.
Tach Narrows Eden Security Intelligence	Posted - 2011.06.07 03:57:00 - [14] Originally by: Selinate /cut Do you really believe that CCP would do such a blatant and dumb mistake? I completely agree on the repercussions of such an act, I'd do the same. But I find it unlikely that they are that much after profit. I remember Hilmar from the early days, you don't work 15 hours a day only for money. You also do it because of passion.
Selinate Amarr Mocking Birds	Posted - 2011.06.07 03:59:00 - [15] Originally by: Tach Narrows Originally by: Selinate /cut Do you really believe that CCP would do such a blatant and dumb mistake? I completely agree on the repercussions of such an act, I'd do the same. But I find it unlikely that they are that much after profit. I remember Hilmar from the early days, you don't work 15 hours a day only for money. You also do it because of passion. I would hope not. But all I can honestly say is that as of right now, I demand further explanation, and if that explanation hints at the aforementioned, then you know the rest...
Athena Machina Caldari Definitive Exploration and Excavations Drama Flakes	Posted - 2011.06.07 04:00:00 - [16] Originally by: MotherMoon Finally that players in dust514 can join eve corps. shared voice chat and all. both games will share a forum. epic drama incoming I wonder how easy it will be for DUSTies to post on the forums with their Move/Normal controllers. Or will they keep running back and forth between a PC for forums and a console for the Game.
Natalia Kovac Minmatar Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2011.06.07 04:00:00 - [17] Originally by: Tach Narrows If you shut up for a moment, I'll try to simplify it for you. The XBOX 360 is technically inferior. You must be thinking inside: "OH, NO, HE DIDN'T!". Well, I did. Suck it up. It's a fact that the Playstation 3 as a hardware platform has much more juice than the Xbox 360. I am not a fanboy, I don't even own a console. It's just an objective comment. What CCP wants to do needs more juice. N**ga what. The PS3 is like 6-7 year old hardware. A ú250 PC from PC world could probably out-perform it at this point.
Ayieka	Posted - 2011.06.07 04:02:00 - [18] beginning every argument with "shut up" doesn't really make you look any more intelligent.
Tach Narrows Eden Security Intelligence	Posted - 2011.06.07 04:02:00 - [19] Edited by: Tach Narrows on 07/06/2011 04:04:40 Edited by: Tach Narrows on 07/06/2011 04:03:22 Originally by: Natalia Kovac Originally by: Tach Narrows If you shut up for a moment, I'll try to simplify it for you. The XBOX 360 is technically inferior. You must be thinking inside: "OH, NO, HE DIDN'T!". Well, I did. Suck it up. It's a fact that the Playstation 3 as a hardware platform has much more juice than the Xbox 360. I am not a fanboy, I don't even own a console. It's just an objective comment. What CCP wants to do needs more juice. N**ga what. The PS3 is like 6-7 year old hardware. A ú250 PC from PC world could probably out-perform it at this point. It would. But EVE Online is on the PC. They don't want to make DUST 514 on the PC. CCP wants to explore the console market and connect EVE Online with a sister game. And the Playstation 3 is at the top in respect to hardware and liberal game networking. @Ayieka - I have no need to look intelligent. Whether I am or not is not for me to judge or attempt to correct. I am what I am. I've written a post of support for CCP and hope they'll keep up the good work. And the reason for me to write "Shut up." is because trolling is really becoming increasingly dumb and simply plain offensive with no facts in mind.
Mixed Signals Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.07 04:06:00 - [20] Originally by: Natalia Kovac Originally by: Tach Narrows If you shut up for a moment, I'll try to simplify it for you. The XBOX 360 is technically inferior. You must be thinking inside: "OH, NO, HE DIDN'T!". Well, I did. Suck it up. It's a fact that the Playstation 3 as a hardware platform has much more juice than the Xbox 360. I am not a fanboy, I don't even own a console. It's just an objective comment. What CCP wants to do needs more juice. N**ga what. The PS3 is like 6-7 year old hardware. A ú250 PC from PC world could probably out-perform it at this point. Yes it probably could. But PS3 components are specifically made for the PS3, and all PS3-exclusive games are made for only ONE set of hardware. What I am trying to say is that all the games built for consoles are generally far more optimized than their PC versions. Consoles are optimized and PC's just have raw power.

Fumbleface	Posted - 2011.06.07 04:10:00 - [21] Hey OP, can you explain in detail why you think that the XBOX 360 is technically inferior?
Taedrin Gallente The Green Cross Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2011.06.07 04:13:00 - [22] Originally by: Tach Narrows Edited by: Tach Narrows on 07/06/2011 03:44:16 Originally by: Herping yourDerp PS3 is more powerful but the game was shown running on 360. meaning it was ported from 360 to PS3. your arguments are null and void. You do understand that Unreal Engine 3 runs on every next generation platform and the PC? They can run it anywhere they want, but to publish it with all the freakish server interaction with the EVE Online's backend, they need a consent from Microsoft. A consent they won't get. And that's the part when Sony comes in. Are my arguments null and void or do you just lack valid information? @Silas - I have nothing against argumentative insulting, so try that. Just because a game engine/library that a game uses is cross-platform, doesn't mean that the entire game is automatically cross-platform. IE, just because I build a program using the wxWidgets toolkit doesn't mean that my program is automatically compatible with Linux. It is merely EASIER to create cross-platform games by using Unreal Engine 3, not automatic. The only way to make a program automatically cross-platform is to program against a virtual machine like Java. ---------- Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident" Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
Tach Narrows Eden Security Intelligence	Posted - 2011.06.07 04:20:00 - [23] Edited by: Tach Narrows on 07/06/2011 04:22:53 Edited by: Tach Narrows on 07/06/2011 04:22:26 Originally by: Taedrin Originally by: Tach Narrows Edited by: Tach Narrows on 07/06/2011 03:44:16 Originally by: Herping yourDerp PS3 is more powerful but the game was shown running on 360. meaning it was ported from 360 to PS3. your arguments are null and void. You do understand that Unreal Engine 3 runs on every next generation platform and the PC? They can run it anywhere they want, but to publish it with all the freakish server interaction with the EVE Online's backend, they need a consent from Microsoft. A consent they won't get. And that's the part when Sony comes in. Are my arguments null and void or do you just lack valid information? @Silas - I have nothing against argumentative insulting, so try that. Just because a game engine/library that a game uses is cross-platform, doesn't mean that the entire game is automatically cross-platform. IE, just because I build a program using the wxWidgets toolkit doesn't mean that my program is automatically compatible with Linux. It is merely EASIER to create cross-platform games by using Unreal Engine 3, not automatic. The only way to make a program automatically cross-platform is to program against a virtual machine like Java. Sorry, it's seems I haven't been clear enough. They were experimenting with both platforms. And then they discovered that Microsoft isn't too fond of the networking idea CCP had in mind. Basic technical demos CCP has provided in the past is "practically automatic", that's the way of development today. CryENGINE is employing it, so is Unreal Engine 3. Dynamic testing on all platforms. All games are cross-platform when they are based on such middleware. The only question is are they usable (UI, controller methodology and input). It's wrong to compare wxWidgets and virtual machines to game development middleware which was developed to make the transition practically "automatic". As I've already said, it just a matter of fine tuning it later. It's not hard at all to have a game based on UE3 or CryEngine 3 running on all three platforms at once in realtime. And you are correct, they did experiment with the X360 until the thingy with "We don't like you connecting two different platforms." And someone has asked me why X360 is technically inferior, well, check their specs and check the top of the line of the X360 line up and that of Playstation 3.
Othar en'gilliath OMNI Technologies	Posted - 2011.06.07 04:33:00 - [24] any troll to this is a idiot the OP is correct in all points
Mortania Minmatar No Compromise Gentlemen's Agreement	Posted - 2011.06.07 04:35:00 - [25] sigh. Can people who don't know **** stop saying the PS3 is technically superior, please. Yes, it does some things better. And the 360 does other things better. It's not obvious in any sense of word. Anyone saying otherwise is just a fanboi, plain and simple. From everything in my experience, Unreal3 runs better on the 360, likely because of the more similar architecture to PCs, but, even that is negligible. The truth of the matter is almost assuredly due to PSN versus the more closed system of Xbox Live (PS to the ignorant, you don't have to pay for Xbox Live, just for the Gold version of it, plenty of good live gaming can occur with a free silver account). Just needed to clear up some oft repeated misstatements.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.06.07 04:40:00 - [26] Edited by: Tippia on 07/06/2011 04:41:12 Just a note. While digging around in the old fanfest presentations, I found this foreboding comment about what issues they knew they were facing with the platforms themselves in connection to what they wanted to doà Apparently, MS didn't feel it was good business after all. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Othar en'gilliath OMNI Technologies	Posted - 2011.06.07 04:46:00 - [27] source =http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1523672&page=3 Originally by: CCP Fallout Originally by: Pharon Reichter So.... why did you do it ? why PS3 only ? Two reasons: we found the PS3 to be MMO-friendly, but from a game design perspective there's a whole lot of very wonderful things the console brings to the table. While we can't entirely discuss this at this particular time, we'll be speaking more about it during the week during the myriad interviews we are conducting this week at E3.
Sharon Anne Caldari	Posted - 2011.06.07 04:53:00 - [28] Not too worried about the console gaming I can see it doing stuff on a larger scale than PC, a larger player base from the nickle and dime crowd. The dusties will still need their overlords. Besides this could be what PS needs to launch the next machine. *The general epidemic of rectal-cranial inversion*
Albetta	Posted - 2011.06.07 04:56:00 - [29] Agreed OP. I for one can't wait for Dust.
Tach Narrows Eden Security Intelligence	Posted - 2011.06.07 05:00:00 - [30] Edited by: Tach Narrows on 07/06/2011 05:01:40 Originally by: Mortania sigh. Can people who don't know **** stop saying the PS3 is technically superior, please. Yes, it does some things better. And the 360 does other things better. It's not obvious in any sense of word. Anyone saying otherwise is just a fanboi, plain and simple. From everything in my experience, Unreal3 runs better on the 360, likely because of the more similar architecture to PCs, but, even that is negligible. The truth of the matter is almost assuredly due to PSN versus the more closed system of Xbox Live (PS to the ignorant, you don't have to pay for Xbox Live, just for the Gold version of it, plenty of good live gaming can occur with a free silver account). Just needed to clear up some oft repeated misstatements. By pure numbers and hardware, Playstation 3 is technically superior. There is no denying that. It's a statistical fact. An Xbox 360 can do a lot. But the Cell and the RSX can push a lot more than the TriCore and Xenos. What you are possibly referring to might be the creative input and various games for the platform (Kinect vs. Move and all that crap). But when we talk about the CPU and the GPU, it's a fact that the Playstation 3 has an upper hand. Denying it is just stupid. Lookie here The architectural similarities are of little actual impact on the performance of UE3. The two most popular APIs are, in result, identical. It's just how much the hardware can push, rendering optimizations are usually abstracted from the lowlevel API in a smart design, that's how Epic brought the Unreal Engine 3 to the OGLES powered iOS devices. You do the lowlevel stuff right (API specific rendering optimizations) and according to the design and everything else falls in line. Scene management and a lot of other rendering related things are at a higher level and aren't heavily dependent on the underlying hardware architecture and the APIs. That's the magic of good software engineering, if you don't have to rewrite it, you won't. The only topic open to discussion when porting an engine to a new platform is how you manage memory and resources, and that differs from platform to platform. X360 might look like a PC, but it's a fundamentally different architecture. PowerPC, RISC, low memory, aging GPU. But we are not here to discuss game engine design and hardware architectures. But if you'd like to, look me up ingame, while I'm trading, I wouldn't mind discussing the finer points of game engine development. But on the last part of your post, you are correct. But it's already in the original post. And as the CCP developers have pointed out by now, PS3 is far more MMO-friendly and secretly desires sexual intercourse with EVE Online.

P Stillman	Posted - 2011.06.07 05:10:00 - [31] Best Answer - Chosen by Voters Хboх 360 System Performance Custom IBM PowerPC-based CPU * 3 symmetrical cores running at 3.2 GHz each * 2 hardware threads per core; 6 hardware threads total * 1 VMX-128 vector unit per core; 3 total * 128 VMX-128 registers per hardware thread * 1 MB L2 cache CPU Game Math Performance * 9 billion dot product operations per second Custom ATI Graphics Processor * 500 MHz * 10 MB embedded DRAM * 48-way parallel floating-point dynamically-scheduled shader pipelines * Unified shader architecture Polygon Performance * 500 million triangles per second Pixel Fill Rate * 16 gigasamples per second fillrate using 4X MSAA Shader Performance * 48 billion shader operations per second Memory * 512 MB GDDR3 RAM * 700 MHz DDR * Unified memory architecture Memory Bandwidth * 22.4 GB/s memory interface bus bandwidth * 256 GB/s memory bandwidth to EDRAM * 21.6 GB/s front-side bus Overall System Floating-Point Performance * 1 TFLOP Storage * Detachable and upgradeable 20 GB hard drive * 12X dual-layer DVD-ROM * Memory unit support starting at 64 MB I/O * Support for up to 4 wireless game controllers * 3 USB 2.0 ports * 2 memory unit slots Optimized for Online * Instant, out-of-the-box access to Xbox Live features, including Xbox Live Marketplace for downloadable content, Gamer Profile for digital identity and voice chat to talk to friends while playing games, watching movies or listening to music * Built in Ethernet Port * Wi-Fi Ready: 802.11 A, B and G * Video Camera Ready Digital Media Support * Support for DVD-Video, DVD-ROM, DVD-R/RW, DVD+R/RW, CD-DA, CD-ROM, CD-R, CD-RW, WMA CD, MP3 CD, JPEG Photo CD * Stream media from portable music devices, digital cameras, Windows XP PCs * Rip music to Xbox 360 hard drive * Custom playlists in every game * Windows Media Center Extender built in * Interactive, full screen 3D visualizers HD Game Support * All games supported at 16:9, 720p and 1080i, anti-aliasing * Standard definition and high definition video output supported Audio * Multichannel surround sound output * Supports 48 KHz 16-bit audio * 320 independent decompression channels * 32-bit audio processing * Over 256 audio channels System Orientation * Stands vertically or horizontally Customizable Face Plates * Interchangeable to personalize the console PlayStation 3 Specifications and Details Product name: PLAYSTATION 3 CPU: Cell Processor * PowerPC-base Core @3.2GHz * 1 VMX vector unit per core * 512KB L2 cache * 7 x SPE @3.2GHz * 7 x 128b 128 SIMD GPRs * 7 x 256KB SRAM for SPE * * 1 of 8 SPEs reserved for redundancy total floating point performance: 218 GFLOPS GPU: RSX @550MHz * 1.8 TFLOPS floating point performance * Full HD (up to 1080p) x 2 channels * Multi-way programmable parallel floating point shader pipelines Sound: Dolby 5.1ch, DTS, LPCM, etc. (Cell-base processing) Memory: * 256MB XDR Main RAM @3.2GHz * 256MB GDDR3 VRAM @700MHz System Bandwidth: * Main RAM: 25.6GB/s * VRAM: 22.4GB/s * RSX: 20GB/s (write) + 15GB/s (read) * SB: 2.5GB/s (write) + 2.5GB/s (read) System Floating Point Performance: 2 TFLOPS Storage: * HDD * Detachable 2.5ö HDD slot x 1 I/O: * USB: Front x 4, Rear x 2 (USB2.0) * Memory Stick: standard/Duo, PRO x 1 * SD: standard/mini x 1 * CompactFlash: (Type I, II) x 1 Communication: Ethernet (10BASE-T, 100BASE-TX, 1000BASE-T) x3 (input x 1 + output x 2) Wi-Fi: IEEE 802.11 b/g Bluetooth: Bluetooth 2.0 (EDR) Controller: * Bluetooth (up to 7) * USB2.0 (wired) * Wi-Fi (PSP«) * Network (over IP) AV Output: * Screen size: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p * HDMI: HDMI out x 2 * Analog: AV MULTI OUT x 1 * Digital audio: DIGITAL OUT (OPTICAL) x 1 CD Disc media (read only): * PlayStation CD-ROM * PlayStation 2 CD-ROM * CD-DA (ROM), CD-R, CD-RW * SACD Hybrid (CD layer), SACD HD * DualDisc (audio side), DualDisc (DVD side) DVD Disc media (read only): * PlayStation 2 DVD-ROM * PLAYSTATION 3 DVD-ROM * DVD-Video: DVD-ROM, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R, DVD+RW Blu-ray Disc media (read only): * PLAYSTATION 3 BD-ROM * BD-Video: BD-ROM, BD-R, BD-RE
Zagdul Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2011.06.07 05:29:00 - [32] Originally by: Othar en'gilliath any troll to this is a idiot the OP is correct in all points p. much this. Anyone who didn't read OP and is commenting to argue is a moron.
Mortania Minmatar No Compromise Gentlemen's Agreement	Posted - 2011.06.07 05:32:00 - [33] You're not online, I'll just continue here. Yes, 360 is a powerpc, thus the powerpcs that were suggested before beta kits came out. But, unified memory is a very PC thing, which the PS3 doesn't do. It's like american cars versus european ones, on paper the US cars have WAY more horsepower than the euro cars, but the performance from european ones are just way superior. The power is just wasted. The SPUs are powerful, but management of them is often a bottleneck. The CPU is definitely more powerful in the PS3, but it's not just CPU power that matters. It's the whole package that matters. Take texture memory for example, PS3 it's pretty much locked at 256MB, but with the unified memory of the 360 allows for you to sacrifice main memory for texture memory and in theory use nearly twice that much for texture memory. Granted, if you're doing that, you're making some weird edge case game, but the flexibility of the 360's architecture allows for some things that the PS3 doesn't do well. Like I said originally, it's all pretty damned close, these boxes were released 1 year apart about 5 years ago now, they are really VERY similar in ability, as experienced by the end user.
Tach Narrows Eden Security Intelligence	Posted - 2011.06.07 05:48:00 - [34] Edited by: Tach Narrows on 07/06/2011 05:50:18 Originally by: Mortania You're not online, I'll just continue here. Yes, 360 is a powerpc, thus the powerpcs that were suggested before beta kits came out. But, unified memory is a very PC thing, which the PS3 doesn't do. It's like american cars versus european ones, on paper the US cars have WAY more horsepower than the euro cars, but the performance from european ones are just way superior. The power is just wasted. The SPUs are powerful, but management of them is often a bottleneck. The CPU is definitely more powerful in the PS3, but it's not just CPU power that matters. It's the whole package that matters. Take texture memory for example, PS3 it's pretty much locked at 256MB, but with the unified memory of the 360 allows for you to sacrifice main memory for texture memory and in theory use nearly twice that much for texture memory. Granted, if you're doing that, you're making some weird edge case game, but the flexibility of the 360's architecture allows for some things that the PS3 doesn't do well. Like I said originally, it's all pretty damned close, these boxes were released 1 year apart about 5 years ago now, they are really VERY similar in ability, as experienced by the end user. Yeah, that is true, but if you approach it carefully, there are benefits to be reaped from the specific memory separation because you can really strive for throughput when talking about video memory. They are close, as you say, on that I agree. But from what I've seen so far is that the PS3's got some very technically impressive titles coming out, whilst the Xbox 360 is somewhat stagnating (if you have something new worth mentioning, by all means). Granted, both systems have much to offer, in my belief and since I've had some experience with the Cell processor it's the PS3 that's a bit over the top. But the Xbox 360 can do a lot too, it's perhaps the unfortunate reality that the developers on Microsoft's side are not really squeezing all of its capabilities because they are not familiar enough how their baby purrs. Naughty Dog, for example, is getting a lot of juice. My biggest dislike on the X360 system is the "money, money, money" policy which disables developers from making creative stuff, they always need to impose some rule of their own. If they can't charge points for extra content, they don't like it. Also, they don't like free games. And, in the example of Dust, they don't like the connection between two platforms. They want too much control. Speaking honestly, I wouldn't mind getting any of the two consoles for a while, just to play some LA Noire.
FeralShadow NME1	Posted - 2011.06.07 06:22:00 - [35] Tach narrows You are DA ****IN MAN. I love your post. It's totally right +1000 internets to you. _______________________________________________ "If you want to taste the ground, feel free to attack." - Kenshin Himura
Asptar Monastair Minmatar Adventurers Matari Visionary Coalition	Posted - 2011.06.07 07:07:00 - [36] The XBOX vs. PS3 hardware argument is irrelevant, there has been no indication of any technical issues resulting from a port to XBOX. Your networking reason seems awfully minor, Microsoft collaborates heavily enough with CCP for EVE, i'm sure they could make some concessions for DUST. Besides it's not new technology, the XBOX live server platform was designed for this very use. Either way, CCP just cut out a significant portion of the console playerbase, and have let down a lot of fans eagerly awaiting its release on the box.
Tach Narrows Eden Security Intelligence	Posted - 2011.06.07 07:20:00 - [37] Edited by: Tach Narrows on 07/06/2011 07:21:01 Originally by: Asptar Monastair The XBOX vs. PS3 hardware argument is irrelevant, there has been no indication of any technical issues resulting from a port to XBOX. Your networking reason seems awfully minor, Microsoft collaborates heavily enough with CCP for EVE, i'm sure they could make some concessions for DUST. Besides it's not new technology, the XBOX live server platform was designed for this very use. Either way, CCP just cut out a significant portion of the console playerbase, and have let down a lot of fans eagerly awaiting its release on the box. I'd agree that the first part is not really that relevant, but could you elaborate on the second one? CCP was mostly cooperates with Nvidia, by using DirectX and being on the Windows platform, they do not necessarily collaborate with them. Do you have any evidence to your claim that their collaborate? (I honestly am not aware of such a connection) Also, CCP developers themselves have said recently that the PS3 was much more friendly to the MMO development than the X360. If you don't like the game, why do you play it?
Admiral Tolwyn	Posted - 2011.06.07 07:44:00 - [38] I agree to the OP and I have to add the following: There are so many people who sold their PS3 because of the last hacker attacks and it doesn't looks like that Sony is able to prevent it. And I think I'm absolutely right when I say that not every one of the last PS3 owner is buying the game. So there is only a very small user group who can be part but there is a much bigger group of people who really would like to be a part. The alpha was already running on the XBOX360 the only reason why it's now exclusive to PS3 and silly move is that they are getting money from Sony! There can be no other reason, no real game dev would think about using the move controller on a shooter... Even the better Kinect controller would be a fail. And the best thing is, this little group of move heroes will have an impact on EVEs market!!! Welcome to the future! It seems that CCP is really moving the wrong way now.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.06.07 07:51:00 - [39] Originally by: Admiral Tolwyn The alpha was already running on the XBOX360 the only reason why it's now exclusive to PS3 and silly move is that they are getting money from Sony! Riiightà Quote: There can be no other reason You mean aside from MS' policies for XBL that would make most of the things they want to do with Dust impossible? No, I think this has more to do with Microsoft not wanting the business than with Sony wanting it badly enough to pay for it. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Asptar Monastair Minmatar Adventurers Matari Visionary Coalition	Posted - 2011.06.07 07:56:00 - [40] Originally by: Tach Narrows Edited by: Tach Narrows on 07/06/2011 07:21:01 I'd agree that the first part is not really that relevant, but could you elaborate on the second one? CCP was mostly cooperates with Nvidia, by using DirectX and being on the Windows platform, they do not necessarily collaborate with them. Do you have any evidence to your claim that their collaborate? (I honestly am not aware of such a connection) Also, CCP developers themselves have said recently that the PS3 was much more friendly to the MMO development than the X360. The EVE database runs on MSSQL servers, it's not really a collaboration on par with NVidia's, but they do communicate. Besides if EA could pull it off 7 years ago (using their own servers with Xbox live), I doubt CCP will have any problems today. I think it has more to do with Microsoft's implementation of DLC and virtual goods which CCP doesn't agree with. So there's no real technical reason preventing DUST on Xbox, its all just about the ISK.

Cyaxares II	Posted - 2011.06.07 07:58:00 - [41] Edited by: Cyaxares II on 07/06/2011 08:01:51 Originally by: Tach Narrows By pure numbers and hardware, Playstation 3 is technically superior. There is no denying that. It's a statistical fact. An Xbox 360 can do a lot. But the Cell and the RSX can push a lot more than the TriCore and Xenos. What you are possibly referring to might be the creative input and various games for the platform (Kinect vs. Move and all that crap). Developers have been complaining for years that the cell architecture is hard to program for and that Sony's development tools suck. Sony has created a platform that might be very nice in theory but in practice features the worst sort of developer lock-in as developers would have to rewrite really large parts of the game to port to/from PS3 while taking advantage of the platform's capabilities. They want to write games that they can port to more than one architecture and they ain't gonna love the one console that is really weird and makes their job hell. Sony's motivation is that you either go PS3-exclusive or your port to the PS3 will look and perform like crap. Developers frequently choose the latter option which makes the PS3's theoretical performance pretty irrelevant. And quotes like "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that [developers] want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?" don't help to make friends with development studios...
Admiral Tolwyn	Posted - 2011.06.07 08:28:00 - [42] Originally by: Tippia Quote: There can be no other reason You mean aside from MS' policies for XBL that would make most of the things they want to do with Dust impossible? No, I think this has more to do with Microsoft not wanting the business than with Sony wanting it badly enough to pay for it. I don't think so. CCP is moving all the way from an enthusiastic project to an only money ruled company. There is nothing bad with earning money but you have to stay somewhere in the middle between listening to you users and making more profit. Things like the council are something you can put on your flag but it has nothing to with community influence. They are caring less and less about the community. And therefore they are now taking Sonys money to refinance the ongoing development. They take the money then they will see how much they can get from the players by selling items to them. Then they include this into EVE and after two years they bring out the xbox version.
Korsa Little	Posted - 2011.06.07 08:43:00 - [43] Edited by: Korsa Little on 07/06/2011 08:44:02 Originally by: Othar en'gilliath Two reasons: we found the PS3 to be MMO-friendly, but from a game design perspective there's a whole lot of very wonderful things the console brings to the table. While we can't entirely discuss this at this particular time, we'll be speaking more about it during the week during the myriad interviews we are conducting this week at E3. Adlib "cause Sony paid us a variable **load of cash!!!" What utter garbage. There is no reason it should be PS3 only based on specs of multi-player ability. It all comes down to money and as of tonight CCP will no longer get any of mine. I have been waiting for Dust for a couple of years. It had all the hallmarks of my next big thing. I will not, however, stoop to purchasing a PS3 for it. This is s slap in the face for the PCers who have kept Eve going for years. Up yours, CCP. I hope Sony gets hacked to , goes broke and takes your worthless piece of company with it. ** you. Yes, I am that passionate and furious with this decision.
Tom Gunn Caldari Defiant.. Narwhals Ate My Duck	Posted - 2011.06.07 09:10:00 - [44] Originally by: Tach Narrows And in today's CALL OF DUTY 1000 industry, you people really have no damn respect for an innovative new approach or for a a company which that has devoted their entire existence to forwarding the dream of online spaceships, the dream you trolling, whining, unsatisfied douchebags share. Dunno about you but I'd say he knows us pretty well :)
Zaranda Zora	Posted - 2011.06.07 09:33:00 - [45] If these were the new Forums i'd +1 you. Im a PC gamer by choice but with consoles I've been going with the 360. But looking at the choice from CCP's perspective I'd choose the PS3 for dust514. think of it this way, when the current consoles get replaced the PS4 is more likely to continue dust514 than the xbox 720.
knobber Jobbler Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2011.06.07 09:44:00 - [46] Originally by: Tach Narrows It can't run on the Xbox 360 if Microsoft doesn't allow interaction beyond the very specific guidelines they provide. It's a common known fact. I can do all sorts of crap on the iPhone, but the AppStore review team will never let it on the AppStore, that's my point. And for a developer, that's a crucial point. Microsoft do provide technical requirements but what that usually means is the developer didn't want to fit in with those. The 360 is quite capable at running cross platform MMO's. The exclusivity thing to PS3 is probably more down to SCEE or SCEA paying CCP to make it an exclusive.
Admiral Tolwyn	Posted - 2011.06.07 12:06:00 - [47] Originally by: Zaranda Zora But looking at the choice from CCP's perspective I'd choose the PS3 for dust514. think of it this way, when the current consoles get replaced the PS4 is more likely to continue dust514 than the xbox 720. It's completely impossible to understand your thoughts here. It is to be expected that the new consoles will bo released next year. And you think CCP will then instadrop this game instead of porting it to the next console?

CCP Spitfire C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.07 12:56:00 - [48] Originally by: Admiral Tolwyn Originally by: Zaranda Zora But looking at the choice from CCP's perspective I'd choose the PS3 for dust514. think of it this way, when the current consoles get replaced the PS4 is more likely to continue dust514 than the xbox 720. It's completely impossible to understand your thoughts here. It is to be expected that the new consoles will bo released next year. And you think CCP will then instadrop this game instead of porting it to the next console? Let's just put it like this: "If and when the PS4 launches, you just download the client for that and keep on playing " Spitfire Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online

General Domination	Posted - 2011.06.07 12:59:00 - [49] Dear Guys, that is really realted to the Engine itself, as I remeber correctly then the Unreal Engine is only optimized for PS3 and PC currently. So that could be reason, because CCP won¦t adapt it to a console that even don¦t have the peak the PS3 or a good PC have. Furthermore I am optimistic that DUST 514 will be released for PC too, because there are already a lot of codebase available for PC.
Skyla Kavatina	Posted - 2011.06.07 13:35:00 - [50] Originally by: Sader Rykane Originally by: Herping yourDerp PS3 is more powerful but the game was shown running on 360. meaning it was ported from 360 to PS3. your arguments are null and void. You saw it being played with a 360 control; that in no way means the game was running on a 360. It was running on a computer. Just for those that don't know, games for consoles are developed on a PC using the relevent SDK. Once the testing is complete in the SDK then it's compiled for the console and testing starts on the console itself. Seeing as Dust is still something like a year away it's very unlikely to have even been run on a console yet.

Besoina	Posted - 2011.06.07 14:03:00 - [51] PS3 is the best choice for any gaming platform, it's a no-brainer.
P Stillman	Posted - 2011.06.07 15:23:00 - [52] Edited by: P Stillman on 07/06/2011 15:23:28 do you guys really believe that ccp is a money grubbing corporation. Do you realize how much more money time and effort the eve cluster of servers cost to upkeep in relation to any other mmo gaming server.(there is a reason for nightly downtime) with that being said CCP charges us the standard monthly mmo fee and also has a smaller player base than other popular mmos. They also release free **ing expansions. FREE **ING EXPANSIONS. This is the company that allows players to buy in game currency with real world cash, which in turn allows any player that really wants to the opportunity to play the game for free. anyone saying that ccp is a money grubbing company that does not care about their playerbase is completely deluded.
Ethan Row	Posted - 2011.06.07 15:29:00 - [53] Well i do know one thing and call me a troll or not but i bet quite a few others will try and do this to. Make dust players lives as hard as possible. Why? Coz i can!
Karash Amerius Sutoka	Posted - 2011.06.07 16:01:00 - [54] I find it highly entertaining that "we" are arguing about the merits of Xbox vs PS3 on the EO forums. Interesting times indeed. ========================= Karash Amerius - Operative - Sutoka Fighting Broke - A Eve Online Blog =========================
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.06.07 16:06:00 - [55] Originally by: Korsa Little Adlib "cause Sony paid us a variable **load of cash!!!" What utter garbage. There is no reason it should be PS3 only based on specs of multi-player ability. Yes, that's a garbage interpretation. What he said is basically what I said above: XBL doesn't allow for the things CCP want to do with the game; PSN does. It has more to do with MS not wanting the business than with Sony throwing money at it, and it is not a matter of hardware specs, but on availability of the required services. XBL doesn't offer them; PSN does. Quote:** This is s slap in the face for the PCers who have kept Eve going for years. What do they have to do with anything? Newsflash: once you hand your money over, it's no longer your money, and CCP is free to do whatever they want with their money. What you're experiencing now is how all software development works ù use the proceeds from the old product to develop the new product. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2011.06.07 16:22:00 - [56] Originally by: CCP Spitfire Originally by: Admiral Tolwyn Originally by: Zaranda Zora But looking at the choice from CCP's perspective I'd choose the PS3 for dust514. think of it this way, when the current consoles get replaced the PS4 is more likely to continue dust514 than the xbox 720. It's completely impossible to understand your thoughts here. It is to be expected that the new consoles will bo released next year. And you think CCP will then instadrop this game instead of porting it to the next console? Let's just put it like this: "If and when the PS4 launches, you just download the client for that and keep on playing " You're naive if you think no issues will arise from people playing on the PS3 version and also on the PS4 version. You will eventually drop the PS3 client due to technical limitations / demanding resources you can no longer commit. Then people will be forced to buy the new PS4 for whatever price (Which, if the PS3 was any indication, will still be retailing for a good ú300-400 a year after launch). You can paint this any shade of pink you like, you have made a ****ing awful decision with where you want DUST's direction to go. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Not-Apsalar	Posted - 2011.06.07 16:27:00 - [57] Originally by: Blane Xero You will eventually drop the PS3 client due to technical limitations / demanding resources you can no longer commit. Then people will be forced to buy the new PS4 for whatever price (Which, if the PS3 was any indication, will still be retailing for a good ú300-400 a year after launch). You can paint this any shade of pink you like, you have made a ****ing awful decision with where you want DUST's direction to go. Err, like CCP forcing you to buy a new videocard/system with Incarna if you're not on the right Shader version that was supported out of the box for EVE 1.0?
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2011.06.07 16:28:00 - [58] Edited by: Blane Xero on 07/06/2011 16:30:14 Originally by: Not-Apsalar Originally by: Blane Xero You will eventually drop the PS3 client due to technical limitations / demanding resources you can no longer commit. Then people will be forced to buy the new PS4 for whatever price (Which, if the PS3 was any indication, will still be retailing for a good ú300-400 a year after launch). You can paint this any shade of pink you like, you have made a ****ing awful decision with where you want DUST's direction to go. Err, like CCP forcing you to buy a new videocard/system with Incarna if you're not on the right Shader version that was supported out of the box for EVE 1.0? Video cards rarely come to 400~ for a mandatory update. Wait, they never do; and comparing a console with a six to seven year lifespan with that of a videocard of a ten years ago is totally the same. Totally. CCP has developed DUST for a console with at most three years left on its lifespan. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Josefine Etrange Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.07 17:11:00 - [59] Originally by: CCP Spitfire Let's just put it like this: "If and when the PS4 launches, you just download the client for that and keep on playing " Make sure that at that time I can download the game for my wii2 as well, and I am happy. Don¦t and I am still happy, but you are losing money. Don¦t get me wrong, if it does not work for you, I am ok with that, there are plenty other games around, even when they are lacking the eve integration and cool setting ;-)
Darek Castigatus Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel	Posted - 2011.06.07 17:14:00 - [60] First off I want to say I agree fully with the points Tach made in his OP but there is something else I wanted to mention specifically to those people whining about it being a console exclusive. The way I see it is like this, CCP is simply making a sensible business decision, in this case a bid to expand into a new market. They already have a very succesful PC title so why shouldnt they use some of the renvenue to try to attract new customers and build new business opportunities in a market they dont already have a major presence in. Consoles are an obvious target for videogame developers, CCP is one of these for those of you who seem to think they should exist solely to provide you with Eve Online, and securing a partnership with sony via an exclusive launch deal makes way more sense than trying to jump through whatever hoops microsoft decided to stick in the way of an xbox release. As long as DUST isnt a complete flop then they have that foot in the door and future access to the market becomes a hell of a lot easier because they have that proven record of developement on the platform to point at. TLDR Stop being so shocked a business is acting like a business, it makes sense if you take a minute and actually use your brain for once. http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php

northwesten Amarr Trinity Corporate Services	Posted - 2011.06.07 18:39:00 - [61] I want CCP make EVE fittness game for Wii lol So they it can suppress my ego saying I am a fat F***** ------------------------------------
Gwenywell Shumuku	Posted - 2011.06.07 20:06:00 - [62] Edited by: Gwenywell Shumuku on 07/06/2011 20:06:50 @Tach narrows you sir are not as smart as you think guess why ppl feel left out on PC (or xbox)? Because EVE is the game we invest our time in, and WE WANT to walk an planets, too. Fight on planets, you know, like in space.... So what if it would be an expansion (even payed for) on PC? I would pay it. As long as i can play ALL WHAT THE EVE UNIVERS I INTERACT IN IS OPEN TO ME....alright? And no, buying a PS3 just for that is foo much for an expansion (400Ç?). Following your argument we could bring every new aspect of the game to a new platform, you know, just because we can. Yea, lets take EVE apart so that noone (short of buying all platforms) can get the full experience. good idea.
Adunh Slavy	Posted - 2011.06.07 20:08:00 - [63] Originally by: MotherMoon the dev blog was quite clear. Aurum will be used to be NON vanity items in dust514. However the only different between the Aurm item and the normal item is, as you said, visual. Have the refrence on that? The Real Space Initiative - V7
Adunh Slavy	Posted - 2011.06.07 20:15:00 - [64] Originally by: Selinate "YouÆve asked a few things I canÆt delve too deeply into, but what I can comment on is what you said about virtual items and real money. DUST 514 will support purchases made through both in-game earned currency and real money currency." -CCP shadow answering a player on the playstation blog. In reality, you have no idea how aurum will affect this yet. However, I can say that if aurum is used in any way, shape, or form to gain an advantage, CCP will lose my subscription and never hear from me again. I'm with Selinate. Here's the "scary scenario": Dust will end up using Aurum in some sort of pay to play scheme, with items, abilities, time, access to something - some little got ya that can be gained in no other way. Dust players will be looking to pod pilots to finance them - someone is going to have to shell out for a PLEX somewhere to "share the burden" with their merc buddies in an effort to save the pixel planet. Granted that PLEX can be bought off the market with ISK, BUT - It is still a driver of demand for real world cash to purchase the PLEX to get the aurum to get the "ever so insignificant DUST thing you should not worry about you big baby." The Real Space Initiative - V7
Phantom SV	Posted - 2011.06.07 20:34:00 - [65] Hi, I don't care what hardware they go on the console.. BUT, the choice of not selling DUST on a pc platform BESIDES the console is pure crap. Did SONY "bribe" you with something? Really now CCP, how can you choose to loose such a big market? I do not own and will never own a console. I find consoles being useless. Anyone these days can build a PC way powerful than any console out there and cheaper. A console is just a way to loose some money and are made for kids that can't use an OS and can't install a driver... basically not very smart ppl. Still these days I see a lot of young ones that can do pretty much on a pc. It doesn't have to be an add-on to EVE, it doesn't have to come free... and so on... I would buy it, but I don't like the ideea of buying a console too in order to play the game. I'm fine with my PC, therefore, at least as far as I can see... there are a big bunch of customers that you just lost CCP. Bad move... pathetic strategy... kind of monopolistic way of deals that are going on and on latelly in the market (see apple with their much overpriced phones that had exclusive agreements with some telco providers) On the other hand, there are out there a lot of YOU'RE customers CCP, that might not afford a console! Did you think about that? They could only afford 1, decent to good PC... is it fair for those to not be able to play the new game? I don't think so. Thanks.. and sorry for the "bad attitude" but it is frustrating when companies that looked nice and pro go in directions that are not fair to their player base, the ones that did grow this company...
Kalen C'Fean	Posted - 2011.06.07 20:35:00 - [66] Originally by: Adunh Slavy Originally by: Selinate "YouÆve asked a few things I canÆt delve too deeply into, but what I can comment on is what you said about virtual items and real money. DUST 514 will support purchases made through both in-game earned currency and real money currency." -CCP shadow answering a player on the playstation blog. In reality, you have no idea how aurum will affect this yet. However, I can say that if aurum is used in any way, shape, or form to gain an advantage, CCP will lose my subscription and never hear from me again. I'm with Selinate. Here's the "scary scenario": Dust will end up using Aurum in some sort of pay to play scheme, with items, abilities, time, access to something - some little got ya that can be gained in no other way. Dust players will be looking to pod pilots to finance them - someone is going to have to shell out for a PLEX somewhere to "share the burden" with their merc buddies in an effort to save the pixel planet. I won't say that's totally impossible, but, going by the CCP answer you've quoted, items will be bought directly using ISK, not the indirect 'ISK buys PLEX which gives you Aurum which buys you xxxxx' scenario. Indeed, I seem to recall a devblog which suggests the items bought using Aurum were themselves transferrable, and therefore sellable, in the same way PLEX is.
Libin Herobi	Posted - 2011.06.07 20:44:00 - [67] Originally by: CCP Spitfire Originally by: Admiral Tolwyn Originally by: Zaranda Zora But looking at the choice from CCP's perspective I'd choose the PS3 for dust514. think of it this way, when the current consoles get replaced the PS4 is more likely to continue dust514 than the xbox 720. It's completely impossible to understand your thoughts here. It is to be expected that the new consoles will bo released next year. And you think CCP will then instadrop this game instead of porting it to the next console? Let's just put it like this: "If and when the PS4 launches, you just download the client for that and keep on playing " The last couple of years have demonstrated quite clearly that "just download and keep playing" is well outside CCP's capabilities.
Tach Narrows Eden Security Intelligence	Posted - 2011.06.07 21:22:00 - [68] Edited by: Tach Narrows on 07/06/2011 21:22:30 Originally by: Gwenywell Shumuku Edited by: Gwenywell Shumuku on 07/06/2011 20:06:50 @Tach narrows you sir are not as smart as you think guess why ppl feel left out on PC (or xbox)? Because EVE is the game we invest our time in, and WE WANT to walk an planets, too. Fight on planets, you know, like in space.... So what if it would be an expansion (even payed for) on PC? I would pay it. As long as i can play ALL WHAT THE EVE UNIVERS I INTERACT IN IS OPEN TO ME....alright? And no, buying a PS3 just for that is foo much for an expansion (400Ç?). Following your argument we could bring every new aspect of the game to a new platform, you know, just because we can. Yea, lets take EVE apart so that noone (short of buying all platforms) can get the full experience. good idea. Yeah, I agree completely. I'd love all of that. We might even get it. But currently CCP wants and needs to explore a new market of players on the PS3. Whether I am smart or not, I have no idea. That's not the point of the discussion. I feel you, I'd like to see such things too. But there is also the question of cashflow, as would John Rourke say. Two incomes is better than one. CCP are just human, they need to eat and they wish to expand and better the game. Will they succeed, I don't know. But isn't it a little early to judge them? They haven't even failed yet. If you don't like the game, why do you play it?
knanid volatar	Posted - 2011.06.07 21:42:00 - [69] Really enjoyed this thread Tach, which is a rarity for GD (the new CAOD these days). @at all of the ragers about Dust not being on a PC. FFS they announced that it would never be on a PC 3 years ago! CCP havent changed their mind in that time so why would a bunch of incessant whiney numbskulls think they would change CCP's mind the day after they announce it at E3 to the international community? Yeah I get that you can't afford a console. Me either. Dust is designed to reach a portion of the market CCP presently cannot reach. If you have a PC (and play eve) they already have reached you. So why whine and crap up the forums with all your whineyness. Guess what 90% of the people that read your crap don't care, and never will. Whining on forums very rarely does anything except make you look like a whiner. And nobody likes a whiner.
Ranger 1 Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent	Posted - 2011.06.07 21:45:00 - [70] Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: CCP Spitfire Originally by: Admiral Tolwyn Originally by: Zaranda Zora But looking at the choice from CCP's perspective I'd choose the PS3 for dust514. think of it this way, when the current consoles get replaced the PS4 is more likely to continue dust514 than the xbox 720. It's completely impossible to understand your thoughts here. It is to be expected that the new consoles will bo released next year. And you think CCP will then instadrop this game instead of porting it to the next console? Let's just put it like this: "If and when the PS4 launches, you just download the client for that and keep on playing " You're naive if you think no issues will arise from people playing on the PS3 version and also on the PS4 version. You will eventually drop the PS3 client due to technical limitations / demanding resources you can no longer commit. Then people will be forced to buy the new PS4 for whatever price (Which, if the PS3 was any indication, will still be retailing for a good ú300-400 a year after launch). You can paint this any shade of pink you like, you have made a ****ing awful decision with where you want DUST's direction to go. Don't you feel just a tiny bit silly, telling CCP how they are incorrect about how their own software will be coded? Just a bit? Especially since your argument applies equally well to either console. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.

Siramar Thi	Posted - 2011.06.07 22:32:00 - [71] Edited by: Siramar Thi on 07/06/2011 22:32:03 Your whole post is invalid. It doesn't matter what their reasoning is. The reason people are mad is because it was SHOWN on 360, as good as PROMISED on the 360, and that's been suddenly swiped out from under us. Get with the program.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2011.06.07 22:37:00 - [72] Originally by: Blane Xero Edited by: Blane Xero on 07/06/2011 16:30:14 Originally by: Not-Apsalar Originally by: Blane Xero You will eventually drop the PS3 client due to technical limitations / demanding resources you can no longer commit. Then people will be forced to buy the new PS4 for whatever price (Which, if the PS3 was any indication, will still be retailing for a good ú300-400 a year after launch). You can paint this any shade of pink you like, you have made a ****ing awful decision with where you want DUST's direction to go. Err, like CCP forcing you to buy a new videocard/system with Incarna if you're not on the right Shader version that was supported out of the box for EVE 1.0? Video cards rarely come to 400~ for a mandatory update. Wait, they never do; and comparing a console with a six to seven year lifespan with that of a videocard of a ten years ago is totally the same. Totally. CCP has developed DUST for a console with at most three years left on its lifespan. not true the CPU and RAM requirment s have all doubled since 5 years ago. That also means a new motherboard in some cases.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2011.06.07 22:47:00 - [73] Originally by: Siramar Thi Edited by: Siramar Thi on 07/06/2011 22:32:03 Your whole post is invalid. It doesn't matter what their reasoning is. The reason people are mad is because it was SHOWN on 360, as good as PROMISED on the 360, and that's been suddenly swiped out from under us. Get with the program. it was never shown on 360. EVER. also aim your anger at Microsoft not CCP.
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous	Posted - 2011.06.07 22:52:00 - [74] Major props to the OP here. The outrage over this PS3 announcement is ridiculous. I am a Xbox 360 user, I dont own a PS3, and this in no way diminishes my excitement over Dust 514, or what it will do to the Eve universe. I am equally excited to push the button to nuke a planetside battle, as I am to push the planetside button to take out a dreadnought far above in space. It will be deliciously exciting, and once players push that button too you'll hear the trolling diminish substantially. Its easy to hate when you don't have to put the time in to make the game yourself, or when you feel entitled to a custom game tailor made to your individual whim and specification. Whiners, CCP doesn't owe you anything other than access to their games AS-IS, take it or leave it. They can make what they want, how they want it, on whatever platform they want, and y'all can pay and play, or not. They don't have to release free expansions (that everyone whines about), they COULD charge monthly fees to play Dust. If you think you could do better than CCP, go ahead and try. When you are all artists and programmers, you can run your projects how you want to, and be subjected to the same criticism and trolling.
Eugene Spencer Rodents of Unusual Size	Posted - 2011.06.07 22:52:00 - [75] Edited by: Eugene Spencer on 07/06/2011 22:53:42 Hahahaha - great post OP. Not only do I agree with what you wrote, it also made me LOL at points. Keep up the good work +1. Edit: typo ===== I have a specific comb for my beard.
Marcos Atriedian	Posted - 2011.06.07 23:03:00 - [76] To OP and CCP, I agree completly! What CCP is doing is awsome and great for our game whether you enjoy all of this or not! I have faith that you guys will get this rite!
Reicine Ceer Rodents of Unusual Size	Posted - 2011.06.07 23:03:00 - [77] Fully agree with OP too. Its time people woke up and realised that CCP aren't a bunch of idiots. They're a business. And they also happen to be making one of the best games in the world, and continually improving upon it. And not only that, they're pushing gaming further into the future than any other developer is. Consider Battlefield 3 and CoD. CoD is an arcade game, and an expensive one at that when you consider the add-on packs. Its lineage remains in the console and isn't ever going to better itself in ways beyond graphics and trinkets. Battlefield 3 has a legacy to uphold of sandbox-style warfare that has epic battles and ridiculous, memorable events that you'll bore your friends with. Both games are iterations that are only furthering the preexisting content to its next logical steps, in terms of visual quality and functionality. Where Dust514 is different is the concept, and i wish people would remember that! Linking two systems with two different gameplay styles and making one effect the other is a huge leap of faith by CCP and i applaud them for it and for what it will mean for gaming in the future. -- You're a stark example of just what is wrong with the youth of today. I wish your parents had the presence of mind to have you recycled into a nutrient soup with which to feed the elderly.
jk scowling Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2011.06.07 23:06:00 - [78] Well they had to choose one console or the other to have a single shard game world. Unlucky xboxers...and errrr wiis
Brusanan Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.07 23:16:00 - [79] Originally by: Tach Narrows Do you really believe that CCP would do such a blatant and dumb mistake? Confirming that CCP never makes blatant and dumb mistakes. Ever. ______
Burseg Sardaukar Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.07 23:19:00 - [80] Originally by: Brusanan Originally by: Tach Narrows Do you really believe that CCP would do such a blatant and dumb mistake? Confirming that CCP never makes blatant and dumb mistakes. Ever. Confirming Salid aka Brusanan never makes blatant and dumb mistakes. Ever. On a side note, I support Dust, still.

P Stillman	Posted - 2011.06.07 23:46:00 - [81] Originally by: jk scowling Well they had to choose one console or the other to have a single shard game world. Unlucky xboxers...and errrr wiis cuz ms has their head stuck up their ass
jowming	Posted - 2011.06.08 01:02:00 - [82] Edited by: jowming on 08/06/2011 01:03:01 blatant and dumb mistakes my right left cheek look at hybrid turrets they got nerfed a while back and now look what happened they now need a buff to bring them back in line with the other weapons and i understand why everyone is mad xbox is what dust 514 was going to be on way back when and now with the change to Sony some players cant even play it 'due to lack of funds to get a console or other such things' and a bunch of people are scared to even use Sonys online services for anything now with them getting hacked 2 times in the last month i mean come on cant block ports or even secure your network or whatever you left open thats a big open hole you have there if that many credit creditcards and other info got out you have some crappy security protocols that makes me never want to use my credit card with anything related Sony
Quality Poaster SEEEEE	Posted - 2011.06.08 01:16:00 - [83] Originally by: Siramar Thi Edited by: Siramar Thi on 07/06/2011 22:32:03 Your whole post is invalid. It doesn't matter what their reasoning is. The reason people are mad is because it was SHOWN on 360, as good as PROMISED on the 360, and that's been suddenly swiped out from under us. Get with the program. Life's not fair kid. Get a job.
Galdor Gallente Khatovar Industries Ltd	Posted - 2011.06.08 01:23:00 - [84] The OP is seriously wrong. I can understand stating one's opinion, but don't spout untrue and misleading opinions about the X-Box 360 and try to use those opinions to base an argument from. Does the PS3 support controller-less games? No. Does the PS3 have technology capable of '1 to 1' movement with their motion control Move? No. Does the PS3 have I.P. TV? No. Does the PS3 have voice activated UI's and/or games without a headset? No. Does the PS3 have a stable, reliable online network? No, definitely not. The X-Box 360 has all of the above, so don't try to claim the PS3 is more superior technologically when it is not, fact.
Tach Narrows Eden Security Intelligence	Posted - 2011.06.08 04:25:00 - [85] Edited by: Tach Narrows on 08/06/2011 04:36:39 Edited by: Tach Narrows on 08/06/2011 04:34:22 Quote: Does the PS3 support controller-less games? No. Having a bunch of input options is creative prowess, not one related to raw power of the system. The X360 only got the Kinect a few months back and all I've seen so far are Disney games. The only thing I was excited about was project Milo. And Peter Molyneux (whatever his surname is) failed me again, that man just promises the sky and gives you dirt. DUST 514 is a massively online shooter which draws upon raw system resources to pull through visceral visuals and satisfying shot-you-in-the-face combat gameplay, none of which requires jumping around the room. But I love the idea of Kinect, I really do. I've actually used it a few hours ago to do motion capture for animation. Hey, don't judge, we don't all have money for 60Hz high-tech capturing equipment with support for virtual cameras and advanced motion analysis. Not to mention Team Bondi's facial rig. Quote: Does the PS3 have technology capable of '1 to 1' movement with their Move motion control? No. Same point as the last one. Quote: Does the PS3 have I.P. TV? No. What does IPTV have to do with gaming? We are talking about gaming platforms, not media centers. When you are developing a game, you don't look for IPTV on a platform. Quote: Does the PS3 have voice activated UI's and/or games without a headset? No. Still, this has nothing to do with the power of a system, just a means of input. Defer back to response one. Quote: Does the PS3 have a stable, reliable online network? No, definitely not. They did a mistake, they overestimated the security of their system. But just like when you get scammed in EVE, you don't repeat the same mistake twice. Isn't it logical to assume that the PSN is now more reinforced than Xbox Live? XLive will probably be the next target for future exploits. Hopefully, Microsoft has sufficient measures in place to deflect such attempts. I mean nobody no grief, Microsoft included. There are good games on their platform and I wouldn't mind one at home, but in the most rigorous examination, you'd have to agree that the Playstation is wee-bit more powerful and more accepting of high-tech endeavours, both from the business and technical perspective. If I've learned anything from CCP over the past few years, it's that they like their creative freedom. Microsoft doesn't like freedom, it doesn't give them enough control. New Eden, not EVE Online alone, is CCP's baby and if I were in their place I'd protect it too. All I've stated in my opening post is that CCP had their reasons for going after the Playstation 3. From Microsoft's networking policies to the fact that Sony is more tolerant of the very nature of DUST 514. And yes, there was good money for an exclusive. Developers need money. You need money. Stating otherwise is hypocritical and pretentious, we've all got mouths to feed. Employees, family and in the bottom line, ourselves. And projects also need fuel. Quote: (By the way, anyone who relies on rude or degrading comments in... Did you just state THIS on EVE Online's forum? This is the breeding ground for hating, griefing and plain insults. If you don't show some teeth via sarcasm or argumentative insulting, you're bound to get torn to pieces. You do not negotiate with terrorists. I simply had the need to address the New Eden community because, in my personal opinion, they crossed the line with the topics which emerged on the date of Dust 514 reveal on Sony's E3 conference. Thanks for the response! Seriously, at least you have to courtesy to extend your arguments rather than just outright insult everyone and leave the thread. Kudos for that! If you don't like the game, why do you play it?
Copine Callmeknau Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams The KWFL Republic	Posted - 2011.06.08 06:50:00 - [86] Originally by: Fumbleface Hey OP, can you explain in detail why you think that the XBOX 360 is technically inferior? It's not something he has to 'think' about, it's not something that you can even have an opinion of. All you have to do is a straight up hardware comparison of the PS3 and x360. The CPU's are clocked the same but PS3 has more cores PS3 GPU has a higher clock speed than xbox360, 550mhz vs 500mhz. x360 GPU can utilize ~25% more shader pipelines than PS3, however these pipelines aren't dedicated for a specific use unlike the PS3 pipelines. XDR RAM on the PS3's is around 550% faster than the x360 GDDR3. The PS3 sound card is orders of magnitude better than the 360 PS3 actually has some dedicated system RAM PS3 uses blu-ray discs, for exclusive games this means high resolution textures, for multi-platform games this means uncompressed textures (faster load times, less GPU strain) PS3's come with bigger and faster HDD's The question really should be 'How could anyone in possession of hardware details think that the x360 is technically superior to the PS3' ...oh wait Stunning EVE Online Theme for PS3
forcaldari	Posted - 2011.06.10 07:06:00 - [87] Edited by: forcaldari on 10/06/2011 07:07:34 Edited by: forcaldari on 10/06/2011 07:07:15 Originally by: Tach Narrows Edited by: Tach Narrows on 08/06/2011 04:46:58 Quote: Does the PS3 have a stable, reliable online network? No, definitely not. Quote: They did a mistake, they overestimated the security of their system. But just like when you get scammed in EVE, you don't repeat the same mistake twice. Isn't it logical to assume that the PSN is now more reinforced than Xbox Live? XLive will probably be the next target for future exploits. Hopefully, Microsoft has sufficient measures in place to deflect such attempts. I mean nobody no grief, Microsoft included. There are good games on their platform and I wouldn't mind one at home, but in the most rigorous examination, you'd have to agree that the Playstation is just a wee-bit more powerful and more accepting of high-tech endeavours, both from the business and technical perspective. If I've learned anything from CCP over the past few years, it's that they like their creative freedom. Microsoft doesn't like freedom, it doesn't give them enough control. New Eden, not EVE Online alone, is CCP's baby and if I were in their place I'd protect it too. Thanks for trying, but Sony didn't beef up their security, or at least enough. It's security was breached again long after the first breach. So ya, I don't trust them.
Pierced Brosmen Priory Of The Lemon	Posted - 2011.06.10 08:21:00 - [88] Originally by: Adunh Slavy Originally by: MotherMoon the dev blog was quite clear. Aurum will be used to be NON vanity items in dust514. However the only different between the Aurm item and the normal item is, as you said, visual. Have the refrence on that? This makes perfect sense really, as it's in the nature of the business model. EVE Online: Pay-to-play style game with eighter recurring subscription, game time codes or PLEX. Payment for game time is CCP's main source of income and until recently have been only usable to extend game time (or donate to charity, but that is not part of the business model). With the additional ability to convert it to Aurum, CCP has a small additional income stream that will allow you to buy vanity items that give you no advantage in-game (although a lot of pressure from the CSM had to be applied for CCP to commit to it only being vanity items. Something a lot of people apparently seems to miss, but CCP's initial plans for microtransactions in EVE was not limited to that). Regardless of how many and how awesome looking vanity items CCP will put in the game, the income for game time will always be the main income. Though ofcourse, the more money we spend on the virtual goods store, the more interested CCP will be to develop more vanity items.... if the consept doesn't attract buyers, there is no point in allocating development time on expanding the store. Dust514: Play4Free style game that you never have to pay anything to play the game, but can get upgrades through virtual goods sales. Though you can manage with the standard items, you can get a bit better gear from the Aurum store, or from buying Aurum-items in the secondary market. So if you work hard to make in-game isk, you could in theory never have to pull out your wallet... However. Aurum being the ONLY income stream for CCP, it's only logical that items from microtransactions would be slightly (or vastly, we'll have to wait another year to find out) better, since there has to be some incentive to make players want to pull out their wallets. I don't have any reference, but I do remember (my memory is not perfect though) from what I've read/heard after the E3 announcement, CCP saying that the virtual goods store in DUST is a place to buy "better" equipment. But, they have also made sure it's gonna be balanced in a way that buying stuff for Aurum ain't gonna be the "pay to win" option.
Woody Hill	Posted - 2011.06.10 09:13:00 - [89] What happens if Dust really takes off and there are 5 times more people playing it than playing EVE. Would a situation not arise where there was basically frak all left to blow up? Also as soon as a new PI got constucted there would be 5 squads clambering to blow it up.
Rolare Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.10 09:32:00 - [90] Originally by: Woody Hill What happens if Dust really takes off and there are 5 times more people playing it than playing EVE. Would a situation not arise where there was basically frak all left to blow up? Also as soon as a new PI got constucted there would be 5 squads clambering to blow it up. Then you better get 6 squads to defend it ;)

Miss Rabblt	Posted - 2011.06.10 09:42:00 - [91] Originally by: Tach Narrows Dear population of New Eden, Shut up. fixed for you
Aodha Khan Minmatar Deviance Cartel	Posted - 2011.06.10 09:48:00 - [92] Originally by: Tach Narrows If you shut up for a moment, I'll try to simplify it for you. The XBOX 360 is technically inferior. You must be thinking inside: "OH, NO, HE DIDN'T!". Well, I did. Suck it up. It's a fact that the Playstation 3 as a hardware platform has much more juice than the Xbox 360. I am not a fanboy, I don't even own a console. It's just an objective comment. What CCP wants to do needs more juice. How about you tell us how much more "juice" the PS3 has? You cannot even quantify that and expect people to just follow your reasoning on that just because you say it has more "juice". lol Oh, and anyone with any knowledge of gaming development knows that hardware AND software play a part in how good you can make your game work and look. Power is not something that is granted - it is something to be taken.
Aodha Khan Minmatar Deviance Cartel	Posted - 2011.06.10 09:52:00 - [93] Edited by: Aodha Khan on 10/06/2011 09:53:02 Originally by: Reicine Ceer Fully agree with OP too. Its time people woke up and realised that CCP aren't a bunch of idiots. They're a business. And limiting your game to one platform is not a good business decision. Especially considering Xbox 360 games are outselling their PS3 counterparts. Power is not something that is granted - it is something to be taken.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.06.10 14:24:00 - [94] Originally by: Aodha Khan Originally by: Reicine Ceer Fully agree with OP too. Its time people woke up and realised that CCP aren't a bunch of idiots. They're a business. And limiting your game to one platform is not a good business decision. It is if MS' restrictions cut deeply into that business and/or would make your product hobbled and unattractive on both platforms. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki


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