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DUST 514, PS3 exclusive, EVE Online, Aurum currency - a fan's letter.

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Tach Narrows Eden Security Intelligence	Posted - 2011.06.07 03:35:00 - [1] Dear population of New Eden, What is wrong with you? I would like to make some comments on the recent developments on EVE Online and it's sister console game, DUST 514 with a little digression into the reasons of CCP's decision to make it exclusively for the Playstation 3. I am not speaking on CCP's behalf, I am speaking as a fan who has enjoyed EVE Online for many years. And no, I am not affiliated with CCP in any legal/romantic/erotic way. Okay, I do love their faces and their work. It's starting to get weird, so let me approach it as serialized in the title. DUST 514 AS A console game AND AN EXCLUSIVE FOR THE PS3 Dust 514 is not the EVE-wrecker most of you believe it to be. It's a sister game of EVE Online, it complements it and completes it. It's on a console for a reason. Now, let's go on an L1 mission to find that reason. Let's just, for a second, pretend that Dust 514 is going to hit the PC platform. What the hell? It would be a STANDALONE EXPANSION PACK FOR EVE ONLINE. I swear, some of you are so dense you cannot comprehend such a simple matter. EVE Online was created for the PC. It's been with us for almost a decade, it has gathered a community, an audience of people who enjoy a full fledged space simulator/sandbox/grief-you-in-the-face experience. And CCP wants you to continue enjoying EVE Online as it is, they do not want to introduce something that would could have been easily integrated into EVE Online as an expansion pack. They want to do something different, something bold, something new. And in today's CALL OF DUTY 1000 industry, you people really have no damn respect for an innovative new approach or for a a company which that has devoted their entire existence to forwarding the dream of online spaceships, the dream you trolling, whining, unsatisfied douchebags share. They've finally got big enough for the big push, CCP is no longer only in Iceland, the team from Shangai has been hard at work delivering a satisfying DUST 514 experience for all the players who wish to give it a try. The fact they are doing more work on other fronts DOES NOT MEAN they are ignoring EVE Online. Quite the contrary. You just have to USE YOUR BRAIN. The Playstation 3 does not drive people away from the actual star here, EVE Online. That is why it is a console title, they wish to explore an another market of players who could be integrated into the New Eden experience and embellish the world for all of us. GET IT? I am a game developer myself and the thought of linking two facets of the same world on two different hardware architectures makes my skin crawl. But it's also f u c k i n g impressive. CCP has the balls to do what other companies shiver from doing. BUT WHY HAS THE XBOX 360 BEEN LEFT OUT?! WHY?! If you shut up for a moment, I'll try to simplify it for you. The XBOX 360 is technically inferior. You must be thinking inside: "OH, NO, HE DIDN'T!". Well, I did. Suck it up. It's a fact that the Playstation 3 as a hardware platform has much more juice than the Xbox 360. I am not a fanboy, I don't even own a console. It's just an objective comment. What CCP wants to do needs more juice. But that is not all, Xbox Live is very particular of what it does and does not allow. They are very skeptical about technically intense and unorthodox multiplayer approaches in general on their platform, which makes CCP's idea that many times more scary to them. Their policies won't allow for what CCP wants to do. Sony's will. Sony's had a big setback recently and they are ready to bring out the big guns and look for media attention. And the famous EVE Online's developer with a crazy new idea is a very good way to get attention. AURUM CURRENCY Shut up. Do you even read what you are given before you start trolling? AURUM WILL NOT ALLOW PLAYERS AN ADVANTAGE INGAME, THEY'LL JUST LOOK MORE BADASS. BUT THEY WILL DIE JUST THE SAME. That is all, this had to be said.
Herping yourDerp	Posted - 2011.06.07 03:37:00 - [2] PS3 is more powerful but the game was shown running on 360. meaning it was ported from 360 to PS3. your arguments are null and void.
Tach Narrows Eden Security Intelligence	Posted - 2011.06.07 03:39:00 - [3] One more thing, if someone brings up Sony's recent security failure... Think about it, many of you have been scammed in the past, when you were a beginner. You were burned once and you will not make the same mistake ever again. I don't like Sony that much, but I really appreciate what CCP is doing for the Universe we all enjoy and love. Show some support for their initiatives, try not to bash all the time. Anyways, best of luck CCP. That was my bit of common sense and fan courtesy.
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate	Posted - 2011.06.07 03:39:00 - [4] Originally by: Tach Narrows AURUM CURRENCY Shut up. Do you even read what you are given before you start trolling? AURUM WILL NOT ALLOW PLAYERS AN ADVANTAGE INGAME, THEY'LL JUST LOOK MORE BADASS. BUT THEY WILL DIE JUST THE SAME. I don't really give a **** about what you just posted; however I'm gonna go ahead and say that you are in all likelyhood wrong about the part that I quoted.
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate	Posted - 2011.06.07 03:40:00 - [5] Originally by: Herping yourDerp PS3 is more powerful but the game was shown running on 360. meaning it was ported from 360 to PS3. your arguments are null and void. You saw it being played with a 360 control; that in no way means the game was running on a 360. It was running on a computer.
Silas Cooper	Posted - 2011.06.07 03:41:00 - [6] OP's either a CCP dev alt or a moron. In case he's a troll then he put in far more effort than he'll get out of it. -- You can't cure stupid.
Tach Narrows Eden Security Intelligence	Posted - 2011.06.07 03:43:00 - [7] Edited by: Tach Narrows on 07/06/2011 03:44:16 Originally by: Herping yourDerp PS3 is more powerful but the game was shown running on 360. meaning it was ported from 360 to PS3. your arguments are null and void. You do understand that Unreal Engine 3 runs on every next generation platform and the PC? They can run it anywhere they want, but to publish it with all the freakish server interaction with the EVE Online's backend, they need a consent from Microsoft. A consent they won't get. And that's the part when Sony comes in. Are my arguments null and void or do you just lack valid information? @Silas - I have nothing against argumentative insulting, so try that.
Selinate Amarr Mocking Birds	Posted - 2011.06.07 03:43:00 - [8] Originally by: Tach Narrows AURUM CURRENCY Shut up. Do you even read what you are given before you start trolling? AURUM WILL NOT ALLOW PLAYERS AN ADVANTAGE INGAME, THEY'LL JUST LOOK MORE BADASS. BUT THEY WILL DIE JUST THE SAME. Where did you read this? Can you link something please? Because the Dust 514 website was very vague (as in, didn't say what type of items could be bought with isk or aurum at all) when I read it.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2011.06.07 03:43:00 - [9] the dev blog was quite clear. Aurum will be used to be NON vanity items in dust514. However the only different between the Aurm item and the normal item is, as you said, visual. But the aurum item would still be an offensive item that effects the game i dust. But dust 514 is free to play so it's ok. also that all AURUM items will be sellable for isk, in DUST514, by the players. Finally that players in dust514 can join eve corps. shared voice chat and all. both games will share a forum. epic drama incoming
Herping yourDerp	Posted - 2011.06.07 03:46:00 - [10] Originally by: Tach Narrows Originally by: Herping yourDerp PS3 is more powerful but the game was shown running on 360. meaning it was ported from 360 to PS3. your arguments are null and void. You do understand that Unreal Engine 3 runs on every next generation platform and the PC? They can run it anywhere they want, but to publish it with all the freakish server interaction with the EVE Online's backend, they need a consent from Microsoft. A consent they won't get. And that's the part when Sony comes in. Are my arguments null and void or do you just lack valid information? your argument was that it COULDNT run on xbox, when it clearly can. also, its unknown what MS would want to support dust, it might have been reasonable. you dont know that. it might have been as simple as " we want to approve of each update server side" or " we want to run server in between eve and the player"

Grey Stormshadow Starwreck Industries	Posted - 2011.06.07 03:47:00 - [11] Originally by: Tach Narrows AURUM CURRENCY Shut up. Do you even read what you are given before you start trolling? AURUM WILL NOT ALLOW PLAYERS AN ADVANTAGE INGAME, THEY'LL JUST LOOK MORE BADASS. BUT THEY WILL DIE JUST THE SAME. Um... This actually might not be true as AUR is used in Dust too and CCP has not stated to what kind of items AUR sales are limited there... However those items will be tradeable in market also and we don't actually know will EVE and Dust market combine in some point... So... let's leave the AUR discussion open still... ------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :)
Tach Narrows Eden Security Intelligence	Posted - 2011.06.07 03:48:00 - [12] Edited by: Tach Narrows on 07/06/2011 03:49:17 Originally by: Herping yourDerp Originally by: Tach Narrows Originally by: Herping yourDerp PS3 is more powerful but the game was shown running on 360. meaning it was ported from 360 to PS3. your arguments are null and void. You do understand that Unreal Engine 3 runs on every next generation platform and the PC? They can run it anywhere they want, but to publish it with all the freakish server interaction with the EVE Online's backend, they need a consent from Microsoft. A consent they won't get. And that's the part when Sony comes in. Are my arguments null and void or do you just lack valid information? your argument was that it COULDNT run on xbox, when it clearly can. also, its unknown what MS would want to support dust, it might have been reasonable. you dont know that. it might have been as simple as " we want to approve of each update server side" or " we want to run server in between eve and the player" It can't run on the Xbox 360 if Microsoft doesn't allow interaction beyond the very specific guidelines they provide. It's a common known fact. I can do all sorts of crap on the iPhone, but the AppStore review team will never let it on the AppStore, that's my point. And for a developer, that's a crucial point. On the topic of aurum and vanity items, the devblog is clear: Quote: So this thing is vanity items only? Yes. We will start out with a rather limited number of items initially, carefully measuring the demand and how it impacts the economy. As time progresses, we'll gradually introduce new items and revise our strategy. We've also discussed this issue in depth with the Council of Stellar Management and will both consult with them and keep them up to date every step of the way.
Selinate Amarr Mocking Birds	Posted - 2011.06.07 03:52:00 - [13] Edited by: Selinate on 07/06/2011 03:53:07 Edited by: Selinate on 07/06/2011 03:52:33 Originally by: Tach Narrows On the topic of aurum and vanity items, the devblog is clear: Quote: So this thing is vanity items only? Yes. We will start out with a rather limited number of items initially, carefully measuring the demand and how it impacts the economy. As time progresses, we'll gradually introduce new items and revise our strategy. We've also discussed this issue in depth with the Council of Stellar Management and will both consult with them and keep them up to date every step of the way. That's for Incarna.... For all you know, there might be a completely different model for Dust 514. "YouÆve asked a few things I canÆt delve too deeply into, but what I can comment on is what you said about virtual items and real money. DUST 514 will support purchases made through both in-game earned currency and real money currency." -CCP shadow answering a player on the playstation blog. In reality, you have no idea how aurum will affect this yet. However, I can say that if aurum is used in any way, shape, or form to gain an advantage, CCP will lose my subscription and never hear from me again.
Tach Narrows Eden Security Intelligence	Posted - 2011.06.07 03:57:00 - [14] Originally by: Selinate /cut Do you really believe that CCP would do such a blatant and dumb mistake? I completely agree on the repercussions of such an act, I'd do the same. But I find it unlikely that they are that much after profit. I remember Hilmar from the early days, you don't work 15 hours a day only for money. You also do it because of passion.
Selinate Amarr Mocking Birds	Posted - 2011.06.07 03:59:00 - [15] Originally by: Tach Narrows Originally by: Selinate /cut Do you really believe that CCP would do such a blatant and dumb mistake? I completely agree on the repercussions of such an act, I'd do the same. But I find it unlikely that they are that much after profit. I remember Hilmar from the early days, you don't work 15 hours a day only for money. You also do it because of passion. I would hope not. But all I can honestly say is that as of right now, I demand further explanation, and if that explanation hints at the aforementioned, then you know the rest...
Athena Machina Caldari Definitive Exploration and Excavations Drama Flakes	Posted - 2011.06.07 04:00:00 - [16] Originally by: MotherMoon Finally that players in dust514 can join eve corps. shared voice chat and all. both games will share a forum. epic drama incoming I wonder how easy it will be for DUSTies to post on the forums with their Move/Normal controllers. Or will they keep running back and forth between a PC for forums and a console for the Game.
Natalia Kovac Minmatar Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2011.06.07 04:00:00 - [17] Originally by: Tach Narrows If you shut up for a moment, I'll try to simplify it for you. The XBOX 360 is technically inferior. You must be thinking inside: "OH, NO, HE DIDN'T!". Well, I did. Suck it up. It's a fact that the Playstation 3 as a hardware platform has much more juice than the Xbox 360. I am not a fanboy, I don't even own a console. It's just an objective comment. What CCP wants to do needs more juice. N**ga what. The PS3 is like 6-7 year old hardware. A ú250 PC from PC world could probably out-perform it at this point.
Ayieka	Posted - 2011.06.07 04:02:00 - [18] beginning every argument with "shut up" doesn't really make you look any more intelligent.
Tach Narrows Eden Security Intelligence	Posted - 2011.06.07 04:02:00 - [19] Edited by: Tach Narrows on 07/06/2011 04:04:40 Edited by: Tach Narrows on 07/06/2011 04:03:22 Originally by: Natalia Kovac Originally by: Tach Narrows If you shut up for a moment, I'll try to simplify it for you. The XBOX 360 is technically inferior. You must be thinking inside: "OH, NO, HE DIDN'T!". Well, I did. Suck it up. It's a fact that the Playstation 3 as a hardware platform has much more juice than the Xbox 360. I am not a fanboy, I don't even own a console. It's just an objective comment. What CCP wants to do needs more juice. N**ga what. The PS3 is like 6-7 year old hardware. A ú250 PC from PC world could probably out-perform it at this point. It would. But EVE Online is on the PC. They don't want to make DUST 514 on the PC. CCP wants to explore the console market and connect EVE Online with a sister game. And the Playstation 3 is at the top in respect to hardware and liberal game networking. @Ayieka - I have no need to look intelligent. Whether I am or not is not for me to judge or attempt to correct. I am what I am. I've written a post of support for CCP and hope they'll keep up the good work. And the reason for me to write "Shut up." is because trolling is really becoming increasingly dumb and simply plain offensive with no facts in mind.
Mixed Signals Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.07 04:06:00 - [20] Originally by: Natalia Kovac Originally by: Tach Narrows If you shut up for a moment, I'll try to simplify it for you. The XBOX 360 is technically inferior. You must be thinking inside: "OH, NO, HE DIDN'T!". Well, I did. Suck it up. It's a fact that the Playstation 3 as a hardware platform has much more juice than the Xbox 360. I am not a fanboy, I don't even own a console. It's just an objective comment. What CCP wants to do needs more juice. N**ga what. The PS3 is like 6-7 year old hardware. A ú250 PC from PC world could probably out-perform it at this point. Yes it probably could. But PS3 components are specifically made for the PS3, and all PS3-exclusive games are made for only ONE set of hardware. What I am trying to say is that all the games built for consoles are generally far more optimized than their PC versions. Consoles are optimized and PC's just have raw power.

Fumbleface	Posted - 2011.06.07 04:10:00 - [21] Hey OP, can you explain in detail why you think that the XBOX 360 is technically inferior?
Taedrin Gallente The Green Cross Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2011.06.07 04:13:00 - [22] Originally by: Tach Narrows Edited by: Tach Narrows on 07/06/2011 03:44:16 Originally by: Herping yourDerp PS3 is more powerful but the game was shown running on 360. meaning it was ported from 360 to PS3. your arguments are null and void. You do understand that Unreal Engine 3 runs on every next generation platform and the PC? They can run it anywhere they want, but to publish it with all the freakish server interaction with the EVE Online's backend, they need a consent from Microsoft. A consent they won't get. And that's the part when Sony comes in. Are my arguments null and void or do you just lack valid information? @Silas - I have nothing against argumentative insulting, so try that. Just because a game engine/library that a game uses is cross-platform, doesn't mean that the entire game is automatically cross-platform. IE, just because I build a program using the wxWidgets toolkit doesn't mean that my program is automatically compatible with Linux. It is merely EASIER to create cross-platform games by using Unreal Engine 3, not automatic. The only way to make a program automatically cross-platform is to program against a virtual machine like Java. ---------- Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident" Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
Tach Narrows Eden Security Intelligence	Posted - 2011.06.07 04:20:00 - [23] Edited by: Tach Narrows on 07/06/2011 04:22:53 Edited by: Tach Narrows on 07/06/2011 04:22:26 Originally by: Taedrin Originally by: Tach Narrows Edited by: Tach Narrows on 07/06/2011 03:44:16 Originally by: Herping yourDerp PS3 is more powerful but the game was shown running on 360. meaning it was ported from 360 to PS3. your arguments are null and void. You do understand that Unreal Engine 3 runs on every next generation platform and the PC? They can run it anywhere they want, but to publish it with all the freakish server interaction with the EVE Online's backend, they need a consent from Microsoft. A consent they won't get. And that's the part when Sony comes in. Are my arguments null and void or do you just lack valid information? @Silas - I have nothing against argumentative insulting, so try that. Just because a game engine/library that a game uses is cross-platform, doesn't mean that the entire game is automatically cross-platform. IE, just because I build a program using the wxWidgets toolkit doesn't mean that my program is automatically compatible with Linux. It is merely EASIER to create cross-platform games by using Unreal Engine 3, not automatic. The only way to make a program automatically cross-platform is to program against a virtual machine like Java. Sorry, it's seems I haven't been clear enough. They were experimenting with both platforms. And then they discovered that Microsoft isn't too fond of the networking idea CCP had in mind. Basic technical demos CCP has provided in the past is "practically automatic", that's the way of development today. CryENGINE is employing it, so is Unreal Engine 3. Dynamic testing on all platforms. All games are cross-platform when they are based on such middleware. The only question is are they usable (UI, controller methodology and input). It's wrong to compare wxWidgets and virtual machines to game development middleware which was developed to make the transition practically "automatic". As I've already said, it just a matter of fine tuning it later. It's not hard at all to have a game based on UE3 or CryEngine 3 running on all three platforms at once in realtime. And you are correct, they did experiment with the X360 until the thingy with "We don't like you connecting two different platforms." And someone has asked me why X360 is technically inferior, well, check their specs and check the top of the line of the X360 line up and that of Playstation 3.
Othar en'gilliath OMNI Technologies	Posted - 2011.06.07 04:33:00 - [24] any troll to this is a idiot the OP is correct in all points
Mortania Minmatar No Compromise Gentlemen's Agreement	Posted - 2011.06.07 04:35:00 - [25] sigh. Can people who don't know **** stop saying the PS3 is technically superior, please. Yes, it does some things better. And the 360 does other things better. It's not obvious in any sense of word. Anyone saying otherwise is just a fanboi, plain and simple. From everything in my experience, Unreal3 runs better on the 360, likely because of the more similar architecture to PCs, but, even that is negligible. The truth of the matter is almost assuredly due to PSN versus the more closed system of Xbox Live (PS to the ignorant, you don't have to pay for Xbox Live, just for the Gold version of it, plenty of good live gaming can occur with a free silver account). Just needed to clear up some oft repeated misstatements.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.06.07 04:40:00 - [26] Edited by: Tippia on 07/06/2011 04:41:12 Just a note. While digging around in the old fanfest presentations, I found this foreboding comment about what issues they knew they were facing with the platforms themselves in connection to what they wanted to doà Apparently, MS didn't feel it was good business after all. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Othar en'gilliath OMNI Technologies	Posted - 2011.06.07 04:46:00 - [27] source =http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1523672&page=3 Originally by: CCP Fallout Originally by: Pharon Reichter So.... why did you do it ? why PS3 only ? Two reasons: we found the PS3 to be MMO-friendly, but from a game design perspective there's a whole lot of very wonderful things the console brings to the table. While we can't entirely discuss this at this particular time, we'll be speaking more about it during the week during the myriad interviews we are conducting this week at E3.
Sharon Anne Caldari	Posted - 2011.06.07 04:53:00 - [28] Not too worried about the console gaming I can see it doing stuff on a larger scale than PC, a larger player base from the nickle and dime crowd. The dusties will still need their overlords. Besides this could be what PS needs to launch the next machine. *The general epidemic of rectal-cranial inversion*
Albetta	Posted - 2011.06.07 04:56:00 - [29] Agreed OP. I for one can't wait for Dust.
Tach Narrows Eden Security Intelligence	Posted - 2011.06.07 05:00:00 - [30] Edited by: Tach Narrows on 07/06/2011 05:01:40 Originally by: Mortania sigh. Can people who don't know **** stop saying the PS3 is technically superior, please. Yes, it does some things better. And the 360 does other things better. It's not obvious in any sense of word. Anyone saying otherwise is just a fanboi, plain and simple. From everything in my experience, Unreal3 runs better on the 360, likely because of the more similar architecture to PCs, but, even that is negligible. The truth of the matter is almost assuredly due to PSN versus the more closed system of Xbox Live (PS to the ignorant, you don't have to pay for Xbox Live, just for the Gold version of it, plenty of good live gaming can occur with a free silver account). Just needed to clear up some oft repeated misstatements. By pure numbers and hardware, Playstation 3 is technically superior. There is no denying that. It's a statistical fact. An Xbox 360 can do a lot. But the Cell and the RSX can push a lot more than the TriCore and Xenos. What you are possibly referring to might be the creative input and various games for the platform (Kinect vs. Move and all that crap). But when we talk about the CPU and the GPU, it's a fact that the Playstation 3 has an upper hand. Denying it is just stupid. Lookie here The architectural similarities are of little actual impact on the performance of UE3. The two most popular APIs are, in result, identical. It's just how much the hardware can push, rendering optimizations are usually abstracted from the lowlevel API in a smart design, that's how Epic brought the Unreal Engine 3 to the OGLES powered iOS devices. You do the lowlevel stuff right (API specific rendering optimizations) and according to the design and everything else falls in line. Scene management and a lot of other rendering related things are at a higher level and aren't heavily dependent on the underlying hardware architecture and the APIs. That's the magic of good software engineering, if you don't have to rewrite it, you won't. The only topic open to discussion when porting an engine to a new platform is how you manage memory and resources, and that differs from platform to platform. X360 might look like a PC, but it's a fundamentally different architecture. PowerPC, RISC, low memory, aging GPU. But we are not here to discuss game engine design and hardware architectures. But if you'd like to, look me up ingame, while I'm trading, I wouldn't mind discussing the finer points of game engine development. But on the last part of your post, you are correct. But it's already in the original post. And as the CCP developers have pointed out by now, PS3 is far more MMO-friendly and secretly desires sexual intercourse with EVE Online.



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