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Aelius
Caldari Mnemonic Enterprises Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2011.06.08 10:17:00 -
[1]
I used to be in NBSI and BoB at some point in my EVE career, been in 0.0 for a total of 1 year in 8 years of EVE. I felt quite "unhappy" being there, to many inflated egos, too many blob wars, to much lag.
Nowadays the above still apply but now you have added to the mixture bots with money growing on every tree, hundreds of titans, russians (i'm not xenophobic but they have a completely different culture/language which make it hard to integrate)... the "all seeing" local, all this makes 0.0 unappealing to my eyes.
BUT
You have WH space... which negates blob wars thus negating lag, it emphasizes PVP tactics, small gang squads... no local, and if look at it even more income if not using bots. Yeah i know its hard to scan everyday, but when PVP happens is so much enjoyable, because the outcome is never certain. The WH mechanics provide that.
Isn't this what a PVP player in EVE looks for?! The thrill of never knowing what it's going to happen. _________________________ CSM Candidate for 2011 (soon a pretty photoshop sig) Aelius 2011 Candidacy Guide Lines |
Efraya
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.08 10:19:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Aelius I used to be in NBSI and BoB at some point in my EVE career, been in 0.0 for a total of 1 year in 8 years of EVE. I felt quite "unhappy" being there, to many inflated egos, too many blob wars, to much lag.
Nowadays the above still apply but now you have added to the mixture bots with money growing on every tree, hundreds of titans, russians (i'm not xenophobic but they have a completely different culture/language which make it hard to integrate)... the "all seeing" local, all this makes 0.0 unappealing to my eyes.
BUT
You have WH space... which negates blob wars thus negating lag, it emphasizes PVP tactics, small gang squads... no local, and if look at it even more income if not using bots. Yeah i know its hard to scan everyday, but when PVP happens is so much enjoyable, because the outcome is never certain. The WH mechanics provide that.
Isn't this what a PVP player in EVE looks for?! The thrill of never knowing what it's going to happen.
It is? Signature removed for not being EVE related. Zymurgist |
Anne Arqui
Minmatar Diamonds in the Rough Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.06.08 10:20:00 -
[3]
CCP should improve the D-scan a little though, make it a permarun radar like thing. Frantically RSI clicking isn't all that great, nor realistic.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2011.06.08 10:39:00 -
[4]
No hotdrops, no local, no supercapitals, no jump bridges. Space where scouting is an important skill and doesn't just consist of "hhhnnnnn look at local". If you're not there, you're doing Eve wrong.
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Sader Rykane
Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.06.08 11:06:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Gypsio III No hotdrops, no local, no supercapitals, no jump bridges. Space where scouting is an important skill and doesn't just consist of "hhhnnnnn look at local". If you're not there, you're doing Eve wrong.
I've clocked in well over a year of time in W-Space, yet most people would call me a carebear. That being said, I wasn't afraid of a fight it just isn't really cost effective most of the time. Running an effective w-space op takes a bit of patience, a little luck, and a lot of coordination. Which is why I haven't actually played eve since last December when I burned out =D.
W-space is where it's at; which is why it baffles me that CCP hasn't expanded on one of their best additions to the game but that's a topic for another thread.
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Eyup Mi'duck
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Posted - 2011.06.08 11:12:00 -
[6]
Nullsec is owned. Free spirits roam elsewhere these days.
Get over it! Learn from your mistake and move on. |
Mr Kidd
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Posted - 2011.06.08 11:21:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Aelius
You have WH space... which negates blob wars thus negating lag, it emphasizes PVP tactics, small gang squads... no local, and if look at it even more income if not using bots. Yeah i know its hard to scan everyday, but when PVP happens is so much enjoyable, because the outcome is never certain. The WH mechanics provide that.
Uncertainty, sure. Like the times me and a couple of my corpmates were stalking down some guys doing a sleeper site. Just as we jump them another, bigger, badder fleet made up of Rooks and Kings shows up to do the same. We didn't make it out even in our pods but the massive confusion and eventual realization of what exactly had happened was pretty cool afterwards.
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Discrodia
Gallente Symbiosis International Moose Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.08 11:26:00 -
[8]
Well, speaking as an ex-Wspace Carebear, I must say I loved my time in W-space, it's just it was terrifying as hell. Knowing that any minute you might be beset by a horde of ships from another WH or even K-space made me one paranoid person. But it did teach me a lot about teamwork and stuff like that. Not so much fun solo.
In my opinion, though, I think WH's are pretty much endgame for small PvP and PvE. All the challenges are harder, but much more rewarding (and some would argue that the PvP can be easier if you have a covops scout who can warp on top of a plexer without him seeing you on D-scan). The only problem with W-space PvP is that luck factors in a ton.
Originally by: anonymous WE JUST DID SCIENCE!
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Tayllor04
Minmatar V0LTA VOLTA Corp
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Posted - 2011.06.08 11:27:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Sader Rykane
Originally by: Gypsio III No hotdrops, no local, no supercapitals, no jump bridges. Space where scouting is an important skill and doesn't just consist of "hhhnnnnn look at local". If you're not there, you're doing Eve wrong.
I've clocked in well over a year of time in W-Space, yet most people would call me a carebear. That being said, I wasn't afraid of a fight it just isn't really cost effective most of the time. Running an effective w-space op takes a bit of patience, a little luck, and a lot of coordination. Which is why I haven't actually played eve since last December when I burned out =D.
W-space is where it's at; which is why it baffles me that CCP hasn't expanded on one of their best additions to the game but that's a topic for another thread.
Well depends, i find it easy to run a full cap esc. quad accounting :D AND I MAKE BOUT 650/800 PER SITE for 1 1/2 - 2 hours work..
That aside, I would love local to be like w-space.. its a great side to the game andif u know what your doing it dont make a diff.. because theres always usually some other person lurking around with the possibility of a fight
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Kestrix
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Posted - 2011.06.08 11:45:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Anne Arqui CCP should improve the D-scan a little though, make it a permarun radar like thing. Frantically RSI clicking isn't all that great, nor realistic.
Your doing it wrong... D-scan is not required once you know how
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Arx Eladios
THE PAROXYSM Session Changes
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Posted - 2011.06.08 11:52:00 -
[11]
Presence or absence of local has no direct correlation to the downsides of 0.0. If local ever was removed from 0.0 systems (And that is too big of a change to ever happen), there will still be just as many blobs, lag and narcissistic leaders.
Lets face it, with the amount of people in 0.0 space, perceived ISK-flow of being there and coalition politics 0.0 is never about PvP. Well it is a little more complicated than that, but it seems to follow a cycle from my observation:
1. Alliance is formed from PvP backbone corporations
2. Alliance moves to NPC 0.0 space and starts to try to wrangle some sort of control from the locals
3. Alliance impresses some coalition and gets given space (CAOD term: pet)
4. Once in true 0.0 masses of people join the alliance. These people are looking at ISK only, can't PvP, aren't willing to PvP and spend all their time in complexes/belts/anomalies. Every single alliance get at least a few macro ratting bots in this step. Alliance can swell up to incredible numbers.
5. Original PvPers just simply get bored. They are surrounded by carebears, no one attacks them due to being part of a massive coalition and only action they get is during prearranged, massive, laggy, in-other-time-zone alliance operations. And due to being surrounded by blues, it is several Titan bridges away. Add the boredom of everyone mandated to fly a specific ship and fit.
6. Original PvPers leave for a new alliance forming up or get burnt out to low sec
7. The alliance continue going as a shadow of a former self. Only reason it hasn't collapsed is that it has not been attacked due to being part of a coalition.
8. This continues until another coalition directs focused assaults on it. At this point the alliance will rely on the other alliances in the coalition to defend it, or if that is not forthcoming it will fail-cascade rapidly. Essentially the carebears do not see space as safe enough for their ISK making operations and evacuate to empire or another alliance they find.
This of course varies a bit, but the basic principle is the same: There will NEVER be non-blob PvP in 0.0. Whether there is local or not, coalitions will still be there.
Why has Wormhole Space escaped this fate? In my opinion it has nothing to do with lack of local. I believe it is a combination of hassle to enter into the wormholes and the fact that compared to moon income, it is not even worth to consider.
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Narisa Bithon
Caldari The Motley Crew Reborn
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Posted - 2011.06.08 12:41:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Arx Eladios Presence or absence of local has no direct correlation to the downsides of 0.0. If local ever was removed from 0.0 systems (And that is too big of a change to ever happen), there will still be just as many blobs, lag and narcissistic leaders.
Lets face it, with the amount of people in 0.0 space, perceived ISK-flow of being there and coalition politics 0.0 is never about PvP. Well it is a little more complicated than that, but it seems to follow a cycle from my observation:
1. Alliance is formed from PvP backbone corporations
2. Alliance moves to NPC 0.0 space and starts to try to wrangle some sort of control from the locals
3. Alliance impresses some coalition and gets given space (CAOD term: pet)
4. Once in true 0.0 masses of people join the alliance. These people are looking at ISK only, can't PvP, aren't willing to PvP and spend all their time in complexes/belts/anomalies. Every single alliance get at least a few macro ratting bots in this step. Alliance can swell up to incredible numbers.
5. Original PvPers just simply get bored. They are surrounded by carebears, no one attacks them due to being part of a massive coalition and only action they get is during prearranged, massive, laggy, in-other-time-zone alliance operations. And due to being surrounded by blues, it is several Titan bridges away. Add the boredom of everyone mandated to fly a specific ship and fit.
6. Original PvPers leave for a new alliance forming up or get burnt out to low sec
7. The alliance continue going as a shadow of a former self. Only reason it hasn't collapsed is that it has not been attacked due to being part of a coalition.
8. This continues until another coalition directs focused assaults on it. At this point the alliance will rely on the other alliances in the coalition to defend it, or if that is not forthcoming it will fail-cascade rapidly. Essentially the carebears do not see space as safe enough for their ISK making operations and evacuate to empire or another alliance they find.
This of course varies a bit, but the basic principle is the same: There will NEVER be non-blob PvP in 0.0. Whether there is local or not, coalitions will still be there.
Why has Wormhole Space escaped this fate? In my opinion it has nothing to do with lack of local. I believe it is a combination of hassle to enter into the wormholes and the fact that compared to moon income, it is not even worth to consider.
yup that pretty much sums 0.0 up
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Riedle
Minmatar Paradox Collective
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Posted - 2011.06.08 13:55:00 -
[13]
Quote:
yup that pretty much sums 0.0 up
It does for Sov. holding allainces. There are lots of other corps/alliances that hunt thee carebears and bloated alliance members down for pewpew. There are alots of small gang opportunities in null sec if you avoid the carebear trap that is sov.
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Shigeru Potatomoto
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Posted - 2011.06.08 14:09:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Anne Arqui CCP should improve the D-scan a little though, make it a permarun radar like thing. .
That would be local....
I agree on the WH stuff, it's probably what real space combat would be like (hell not knowing who and how many of the enemy are there is already what real combat is like)
I doubt CCP will change local because too many people would be horrified at the idea of losing their shiny toys and not being able to fly overpriced faction stuff as much. Every time I bring up changing local to my friends who live in nullsec they reply "no, it would make nullsec ops too difficult"
Really? Like AFK cloaking, blobs, hotdrops and alt-scouting would be totally destroyed by this. People might lose more ships
But they did at least give us an option to go without the all-seeing local, so they're kind of like a guy with a shovel slinging crap at a wall to see what sticks.
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Lifewire
TunDraGon Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.06.08 14:21:00 -
[15]
Yes, 0.0 has lost a lot of magic. Old-school small-scale battles are now found in lowsec or in corp wars in high sec. Alliance-blobbing simply makes 0.0 very uninteresting for players that like to fly solo or in gangs with maybe 5 ships. To roam in 0.0 as small pirate gang 5-6 years ago was the best thing EVE ever offered. Today you get hotdropped and blobbed at every second gate. I think: changing the time until ships can jump through to a cyno, would give a lot of magic back to 0.0. And the bigger a gang is, the more disadvantages it should get. But that's just my old-school opinion.
After playing eve since 2003 i simply think: worthless to think about it, CCP focuses on money making and not on making the game perfect: adapt or die
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Simetraz
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Posted - 2011.06.08 14:39:00 -
[16]
For a short time some of the 0.0 the alliances actually decided to do something smart.
They basically had a an agreement with each other that capitals where banned and the rule of the day was roaming gangs only. It didn't last long, but while it was around everyone had a great time.
Someday 0.0 will settle down to limited warfare again.
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Hydraka
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Posted - 2011.06.08 14:56:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Lifewire Yes, 0.0 has lost a lot of magic. Old-school small-scale battles are now found in lowsec or in corp wars in high sec. Alliance-blobbing simply makes 0.0 very uninteresting for players that like to fly solo or in gangs with maybe 5 ships. To roam in 0.0 as small pirate gang 5-6 years ago was the best thing EVE ever offered. Today you get hotdropped and blobbed at every second gate. I think: changing the time until ships can jump through to a cyno, would give a lot of magic back to 0.0. And the bigger a gang is, the more disadvantages it should get. But that's just my old-school opinion.
After playing eve since 2003 i simply think: worthless to think about it, CCP focuses on money making and not on making the game perfect: adapt or die
There¦s an alliance that now comes to lowsec to hotdrop 2 battlecruisers with 7 supercarriers.. oh wait
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Simetraz
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Posted - 2011.06.08 15:03:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Simetraz on 08/06/2011 15:04:35
Originally by: Lifewire Yes, 0.0 has lost a lot of magic. Old-school small-scale battles are now found in lowsec or in corp wars in high sec. Alliance-blobbing simply makes 0.0 very uninteresting for players that like to fly solo or in gangs with maybe 5 ships. To roam in 0.0 as small pirate gang 5-6 years ago was the best thing EVE ever offered. Today you get hotdropped and blobbed at every second gate. I think: changing the time until ships can jump through to a cyno, would give a lot of magic back to 0.0. And the bigger a gang is, the more disadvantages it should get. But that's just my old-school opinion.
After playing eve since 2003 i simply think: worthless to think about it, CCP focuses on money making and not on making the game perfect: adapt or die
As a player from 2003 you should know better then anyone that the real choices are not made by CCP but the players. Blaming CCP because players use a nuke on 5 people is going to get you know where. Then again trying to get the players to change their cheezy tactics is just as likely to not happen. Stalemate.
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Lifewire
TunDraGon Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.06.08 15:04:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Hydraka
Originally by: Lifewire Yes, 0.0 has lost a lot of magic. Old-school small-scale battles are now found in lowsec or in corp wars in high sec. Alliance-blobbing simply makes 0.0 very uninteresting for players that like to fly solo or in gangs with maybe 5 ships. To roam in 0.0 as small pirate gang 5-6 years ago was the best thing EVE ever offered. Today you get hotdropped and blobbed at every second gate. I think: changing the time until ships can jump through to a cyno, would give a lot of magic back to 0.0. And the bigger a gang is, the more disadvantages it should get. But that's just my old-school opinion.
After playing eve since 2003 i simply think: worthless to think about it, CCP focuses on money making and not on making the game perfect: adapt or die
There¦s an alliance that now comes to lowsec to hotdrop 2 battlecruisers with 7 supercarriers.. oh wait
I still might not like it...even if everyone including PL does it, or? You know, i can be in the 7th cavalry and shoot indians, but i still might not like it, nor like Custer...
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Hesperius
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Posted - 2011.06.08 15:32:00 -
[20]
W-Space is ****ing awesome.
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Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2011.06.08 15:42:00 -
[21]
No local makes wormhole space a huge pia.
And not much pvp happens there. According to EQ the most pvp per system and per capita happens in low sec. Then Null sec. Worm holes are horrible for pvp. -Cearain
Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1 |
Ana Vyr
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Posted - 2011.06.08 15:49:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Ana Vyr on 08/06/2011 15:53:29 Maybe alliances themselves are the issue. What if the biggest organization size allowed by the game mechanics was corps with population caps at say 100 members. Would that make any difference?
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Komen
Gallente The Night Crew
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Posted - 2011.06.08 15:50:00 -
[23]
I in fact joined a corp and have moved to wormhole space, and can confirm - it's awesome out here. The trick is having a good corp (easy to get wrong, I know) and being self-motivated. Really, wormholes are like some distilled essence of Eve-ness.
Also you get used to the lack of local pretty quickly. In fact, I look on it as a boon. You just move that d-scan where you used to put local, and just keep plinging that button.
Granted it would be awesome if the d-scan was an automatic thing, and it had a really cool interface, and being in a gang at different locations would allow triangulation via fleet d-scan integration...
In fact, that's an awesome idea. CCP, make it happen.
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Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2011.06.08 16:33:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Komen à Also you get used to the lack of local pretty quickly. In fact, I look on it as a boon. You just move that d-scan where you used to put local, and just keep plinging that button.
Granted it would be awesome if the d-scan was an automatic thing, ....
Sort of like local? Its a boon to have to keep plinging a button to see if there is anyone even in the system?
Its a good place to do pve and make isk but according to EQ very little pvp goes on in there û and there are good reasons for this. Lack of local means someone who wants to pvp will have to waste a high slot on a scanner. Even with a scanner allot of your time will be spent scanning for wormholes and then scanning in them.
Just go to low sec. Much more pvp.
-Cearain
Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1 |
Hesperius
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Posted - 2011.06.08 16:53:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Cearain Sort of like local? Its a boon to have to keep plinging a button to see if there is anyone even in the system?
Not like local. Local gives you too much free info.
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seany1212
Capital Construction Research
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Posted - 2011.06.08 17:24:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Cearain
Originally by: Komen à Also you get used to the lack of local pretty quickly. In fact, I look on it as a boon. You just move that d-scan where you used to put local, and just keep plinging that button.
Granted it would be awesome if the d-scan was an automatic thing, ....
Sort of like local? Its a boon to have to keep plinging a button to see if there is anyone even in the system?
Its a good place to do pve and make isk but according to EQ very little pvp goes on in there û and there are good reasons for this. Lack of local means someone who wants to pvp will have to waste a high slot on a scanner. Even with a scanner allot of your time will be spent scanning for wormholes and then scanning in them.
Just go to low sec. Much more pvp.
What? i have no idea what the EQ you're referring to is but plenty of pvp occurs in wormholes, corps and alliances are evicted just as in null sec and low sec but on a smaller scale as they're limited to single systems, there are wormhole corporations/alliances that match some lowsec counterparts for pvp kills, it comes down to there willingness to go out and look for targets, pvp happens in wormhole systems whether you're solo or in a gang, the bonus of wormholes is that the gangs are kept smaller, usually resulting in more tactical battles rather than how many ships you can throw at it. You guys make squeeky noises when you pop, and that's enough motivation as far as I'm concerned. |
Metal Icarus
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.08 17:59:00 -
[27]
I think the only reason 0.0 sucks is because only vets go there. Every single corp in 0.0 recruits only ppl with 10mil or greater sp. Which is good for them, but they know what not to risk. Add in hundreds or thousands of rookies into nullsec and suddenly frig roams just got a lot more fun.
Or you can recruit that super cap pilot.... Adding to the problem.....
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Not-Apsalar
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Posted - 2011.06.08 18:47:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Riedle
Quote:
yup that pretty much sums 0.0 up
It does for Sov. holding allainces. There are lots of other corps/alliances that hunt thee carebears and bloated alliance members down for pewpew. There are alots of small gang opportunities in null sec if you avoid the carebear trap that is sov.
QFT.
Find some NPC systems in nullsec space, move there, engage at will. Sure, you'll find some blobs running around, but they're easy to avoid. The rest of the time you're hunting sov carebears and the small fleets that come to the defense of sov carebears.
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Holy One
Quiet.Storm Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.06.08 18:49:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Metal Icarus I think the only reason 0.0 sucks is because only vets go there. Every single corp in 0.0 recruits only ppl with 10mil or greater sp. Which is good for them, but they know what not to risk. Add in hundreds or thousands of rookies into nullsec and suddenly frig roams just got a lot more fun.
Or you can recruit that super cap pilot.... Adding to the problem.....
well this is because most people are window licking idiots and just not worth the time. also, sincerely, why bother training people when 60% of them quit in 6 months or less? 10m means you've show you are committed to eve and likely to be worth the effort. even then most quit within a year.
BBQ makes me hungry for more... |
daddys helper
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Posted - 2011.06.08 19:16:00 -
[30]
I don't see it
My corp spends a lot of time living and roaming in null, sure its not easy to find good fights, but then again nothing worth doing is ever easy.
just because a blob is roaming the area is no reason to put your game on hold, theres pleanty of things to kill in null, you just need to get out of the low-sec gatecamp mindset.
no, you are not going to be able to own a gate with your 5 man gang in a hot null system, but you can sure spend a little time there and possibly catch the guys coming through because there isn't a 30 man blob on the gate or because dotlan says nobody has been killed there in the last hour.
This really dumbfounds me, I hear people *****ing about null being worthless due to the high number of mega alliances there but the reality is that when only huge alliances remain it becomes primetime for the small gang. Sure all the danger is there and then some but you honestly have about as much change of getting your ass handed to you as you do playing around in lowsec or being a pvp carebear playing stupid station duel games (the real reason pvp sucks now).
not to mention that null is carebear heaven now due to the most effective force (IE: small gangs) keeping away for fear that the ruskies will hotdrop their vagabonds in every other system.
Now I know the forums are the official place for doom and gloom but you folks need to get a grip and quit complaining that null is dead when its the fault of the pvp community that it is dead.
just like anything else, adapt or die, CCP is not going to create a small gang sandbox beyond W-space, and good as it may be at times, w-space is also a royal PITA and pretty much amounts to instanced pvp when you get lucky enough to have it happen.
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