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Thallus Tage
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Posted - 2011.06.09 03:49:00 -
[1]
Currently flying a Drake looking to move into lvl 4 missions and looking at the Gila or Raven as my next boat. So i guess this is a Gila or Raven thread... i thrown Tengu in there b/c ultimately i'd like to fly it, but i'm closest to the Gila, followed by Raven and then Tengu in terms of skills needed.
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Culmen
Caldari
Vigrior
The Dominion Empire
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Posted - 2011.06.09 03:56:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Culmen on 09/06/2011 03:58:17
I recommend the Raven over the gila.
The Gila is basically a dead end in the scheme of top tier mission ships.
Where as everything you get for the raven is immediately applicable to the the CNR and later the Golem.
The Tengu is a nice ship for mission running, but I think it only really shines over other ships as a 0.0 explorer.
It has good speed, but can't use drones to destroy frigs in the more effective setups, nor can it insta pop them on approach.
result is your mission completion time is slowed by popping interceptors with heavy missiles.
and further more why do i even need a sig? |
Dorkus Americanus
The Laugh Factory
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Posted - 2011.06.09 04:34:00 -
[3]
Go with the Raven, and if you can afford one, get a Caldari Navy Raven. They take the same skills as the standard Raven, but you get a lot more with the CNR such as an extra launcher, more shield and so on.
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James Morgan
Caldari
Rim Collection RC
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.06.09 06:02:00 -
[4]
Well if you can fly a drake then you should be more closer to flying Tengu effectively than Raven.
What I would suggest is to keep on flying drake and put skill points in Tech 2 Heavy Missile Launchers and Shield skills. You can keep on using your passive drake(with purger rigs) for running any level 4 mission while you skill up for Tengu. Just skip the raven.
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Signal11th
Versatech Co.
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Posted - 2011.06.09 07:58:00 -
[5]
Tengu I would slightly just take over any of the others, great mission ship plus you can use it for a host of other things as well.
It's pretty much the Swiss Army Knife of the EVE world.
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Equus Toomp
Caldari
A Humble Abode
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Posted - 2011.06.09 09:52:00 -
[6]
Have you considered the Nighthawk? as a missile boat user it may be a better option than the Raven.
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Scarlet des Loupes
Gallente
University of Caille
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Posted - 2011.06.09 10:00:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Equus Toomp
Have you considered the Nighthawk? as a missile boat user it may be a better option than the Raven.
Well skills-wise it's of course one of the longest to train subcapital ships.
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Thallus Tage
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Posted - 2011.06.09 10:56:00 -
[8]
Yeah, I liked the Nighhawk as well. But looking for something mission 4 capable that wont take me half a year to train for ;-P Tengu is about 70 days it's looking, and is also a tad expensive but does sound ultimately what i'd end up in. I was just looking for something that'd be a lil faster to jump in to and that was sounding like Gila or Raven on paper.
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Silas Cooper
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Posted - 2011.06.09 12:31:00 -
[9]
Gila doesn't work without proper drone skills and the Tengu doesn't use drones at all, so that's just not logical. apart from that the Gila isn't as brilliant as people make you believe. For now I'd stick to a Drake while getting into a Tengu. Drakes can do fine DPS in lvl 4 fits, if only people would stop fitting them badly. So no need to train new/different stuff.
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You can't cure stupid. |
Thallus Tage
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Posted - 2011.06.09 13:00:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Thallus Tage on 09/06/2011 13:02:26
Originally by: Silas Cooper
Edited by: Silas Cooper on 09/06/2011 12:41:38
Gila doesn't work without proper drone skills and the Tengu doesn't use drones at all, so that's just not logical. apart from that the Gila isn't as brilliant as people make you believe. For now I'd stick to a Drake while getting into a Tengu. Drakes can do fine DPS in lvl 4 fits, if only people would stop fitting them badly. So no need to train new/different stuff.
A CNR will outperform a Tengu though.
I have decent drone skills, albeit not as high as i'd like. I was headed down the gallente drone boat path before i swapped midstream to Drakes. But upon further reading on the Gila, looks like if i pursued that path i'd really want to get Drone Sentry Interfacing skill up to V to take full advantage of it... and that skill is currently at 0 :-P I focused on getting Hob & Hammerhead II's.
And I can't see myself dropping the isk on a CNR just yet. That's a lil beyond my comfortable price range for the near foreseeable future. Dont fly what you can't afford to replace right? I can afford to replace a Gila. I guess i'm more wondering how well it would perform in lvl 4's vs a Drake?
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Silas Cooper
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Posted - 2011.06.09 13:05:00 -
[11]
Yes, a PVE droneboat without T2 sentries is a bit useless. Apart from that you don't have the slots/tank to fit omnidirectionals and damage mods for your launchers, it's all a bit soso. However, the main reasons why I'm no fan is that a droneboat needs to pull in it's heavy/sentry drones if it needs to kill small orbiting stuff losing massive dps in the process, and you lose a lot of time gaining aggro before deploying drones and all that.
Gila seems great on paper but it's more for people who go "look how much tank I can wring from a cruiser!" rather than "look how fast I can do missions!".
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You can't cure stupid. |
Kesshisan
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.10 13:11:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Culmen
I recommend the Raven over the gila.
The Gila is basically a dead end in the scheme of top tier mission ships.
Where as everything you get for the raven is immediately applicable to the the CNR and later the Golem.
I entirely disagree with the bold statement. The Ishtar is the "next step" above the Gila. Furthermore, the Dominix can put out a lot more firepower than the Gila due to being able to use Sentry Drone Rigs. (Typically the Gila uses its rigs for its tank, leaving no +damage rigs for Sentry Drones.) While the Dominix is usually not a "step up" from a Gila, the Dominix is an alternate that does more damage. Oh, and even the Eos can be considered beyond the Gila.
However, I do agree with the rest of your post, and the suggestion to get the OP into a Raven because of the following statements:
The Gila is a shield tank, and the Dominix and Ishtar are armor tanks. This increases the amount of training needed to "upgrade" into the next step. Furthermore both the Dominix and Ishtar use railguns while the Gila uses missiles. That's even MORE training needed to go to the next step.
The transition from Caracal -> Drake -> Raven -> Golem/Tengu/Etc. is nice and gentle. (Almost) Everything you do on a previous ship helps your future ships. This is hardly the case if you go Vexor -> Myrmidon -> Dominix -> Gila -> Ishtar/Eos is hardly gentle. Heck, by removing the Gila from the list, you make it almost easier to go up the line.
Please realize that I am a Gila pilot. In fact I have two fully fitted and rigged Gilas right now, and will probably rig and fit out a 3rd (I have the BPC for a 3rd.) I love that ship and I do terrible wonderful things with my sleek sexy Gila.
Even being a Gila pilot I want to encourage the OP to go the Raven -> ??? route too. I just wanted to clarify that the Gila isn't a dead end. It's just more an awkward sideways jump no matter where you're coming from, and then an awkward sideways jump to go further up.
Fly interesting.
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Thallus Tage
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Posted - 2011.06.10 14:47:00 -
[13]
Cool, thanks for the input guys. Thinking Raven now ;-P
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.06.10 23:07:00 -
[14]
Not to mention that the Gila has a direct upgrade path to the Rattlesnake. Shield tanking drone/missile cruiser to shield tanking drone/missile battleship.
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[Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Lipbite
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Posted - 2011.06.12 18:26:00 -
[15]
It seems like every question was answered already - just I want to share my (sad?) story with fully trained T2 Rattlesnake with torpedos: lately I found CNR outperforms it x1.5 times in DPS using same set of skills (minus few millions SPs in drones) and I didn't have to spend 3 months training sentries / heavies / drone interfacing to 5. Sure thing Rattle can tank tremendous amount of DPS (up to 10-12 1m bounty BS rats at once + 10 support BCs/crousers/frigs) - but I've seen only 2 LVL4 missions there I really need to tank that much stuff at once (Worlds Collide and "secret" pocket in Angel Extravaganza) - everything else can be done in CNR almost twice faster.
Now I'm trying to console myself with idea those drone skills will be useful with carrier - but a) they probably won't (except for advanced drones maybe) and b) right now Advanced Weapon Upgrades for Golem (and later for dread) could be much more useful.
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Thallus Tage
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Posted - 2011.06.14 11:44:00 -
[16]
What do you guys think of bypassing the Raven/CNR route alltogether and just staying in the Raven til I'm in a Tengu?
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Signal11th
Versatech Co.
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Posted - 2011.06.14 12:19:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Thallus Tage
What do you guys think of bypassing the Raven/CNR route alltogether and just staying in the Raven til I'm in a Tengu?
Train for a Tengu you will not regret it, as well as being very useful for missions you can use it for a whole host of other things.
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Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.06.14 13:56:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Culmen
Edited by: Culmen on 09/06/2011 03:58:17
I recommend the Raven over the gila.
The Gila is basically a dead end in the scheme of top tier mission ships.
Where as everything you get for the raven is immediately applicable to the the CNR and later the Golem.
The Tengu is a nice ship for mission running, but I think it only really shines over other ships as a 0.0 explorer.
It has good speed, but can't use drones to destroy frigs in the more effective setups, nor can it insta pop them on approach.
result is your mission completion time is slowed by popping interceptors with heavy missiles.
With 2x T2 Rigors and a T2 Flare rig, the Tengu murders frigates when using T1 ammo. I usually warp in, kill all the frigates (since webbers are your greatest enemy in a tengu), then reload Furies and kill everything else.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Lidia Prince
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.14 14:12:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Lidia Prince on 14/06/2011 14:15:46
Stick with Drake, since it's more than enough for most lvl4 missions, and learn for Tengu. Made the same mistake when heard about Raven as cheap ultimate mission running boat. Because it's not.
You can buy a raven though, because there will be missions with pretty tanked BSs, but Drake with 3-4 ballistic controls pretty much covers this also.
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Sellendis
Caldari
The Ares project
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Posted - 2011.06.15 13:25:00 -
[20]
Was in same situation. Where to go from Drake.
Tested SNI, that tanks like crazy and CNR that puts some nice DPS out. So i bought a Raven and went to L4s, i tanked ok, but crappy dps compaired to Drake.
Slow and big ships, NPCs never miss, sig radius the size of Jupiter, but they can tank.
I was close to Tengu anyway, needed only L5 cruisers, so it went fast. I was amazed at the performance, with ****ty skills and only with a faction 80m shield booster it tanked everything, with more skills it went from a good mission runner to ISK printing machine.
Small sig radius, fast ship like you are flying a frigate. Craps DPS out like you wouldnt imagine. Load Furys and some precision ammo and dont look back on BS for a while till ya get bored with it and go for a change.
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Thallus Tage
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Posted - 2011.06.15 13:44:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Sellendis
Was in same situation. Where to go from Drake.
Tested SNI, that tanks like crazy and CNR that puts some nice DPS out. So i bought a Raven and went to L4s, i tanked ok, but crappy dps compaired to Drake.
Slow and big ships, NPCs never miss, sig radius the size of Jupiter, but they can tank.
I was close to Tengu anyway, needed only L5 cruisers, so it went fast. I was amazed at the performance, with ****ty skills and only with a faction 80m shield booster it tanked everything, with more skills it went from a good mission runner to ISK printing machine.
Small sig radius, fast ship like you are flying a frigate. Craps DPS out like you wouldnt imagine. Load Furys and some precision ammo and dont look back on BS for a while till ya get bored with it and go for a change.
Ok, sold. Did go with HMLs or HAMs on your Tengu?
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Sellendis
Caldari
The Ares project
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Posted - 2011.06.15 14:24:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Sellendis on 15/06/2011 14:26:32
HMLs are the way to go. Killing stuff from 100km easly. And with dis. sequencer to boost sensors, you get a bit less jamming.
When in a mission just orbit anything and kick ass and take names. Even angel exy bonus room is easy. Still, i am mostly lazy so i stay still and shoot unless they can put a dent in my 410 omny tank. Dps is around 650, without any faction stuff aside the shield booster. I still have a lot of room for improving it, but as i said i am lazy to hell. :)
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Thallus Tage
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Posted - 2011.06.15 14:34:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Sellendis
Edited by: Sellendis on 15/06/2011 14:26:32
HMLs are the way to go. Killing stuff from 100km easly. And with dis. sequencer to boost sensors, you get a bit less jamming.
When in a mission just orbit anything and kick ass and take names. Even angel exy bonus room is easy. Still, i am mostly lazy so i stay still and shoot unless they can put a dent in my 410 omny tank. Dps is around 650, without any faction stuff aside the shield booster. I still have a lot of room for improving it, but as i said i am lazy to hell. :)
Sweet, thanks! Do you by chance have that tengu fit you used when you got started? Aiming for this one at the moment...
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/34086-Tengu-PvE-Minimum-Spec.html
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Sellendis
Caldari
The Ares project
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Posted - 2011.06.15 14:49:00 -
[24]
When i started, i could barely fit the ship worth a damn. So i made a crap-fit that "worked", and improved from there. Best part is, refitted to this old starter setup and ran a few L4s, and its still kicking ass.
Take notice i was poor like crap then and thinking i could do better fits then battleclinic :)
[Tengu, Tengu]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Gist C-Type Photon Scattering Field
Cap Recharger II
Pithi C-Type Small Shield Booster
5a Prototype Shield Support I
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Core Defence Operational Solidifier I
Medium Core Defence Operational Solidifier I
Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers
I had cap problems then, and low shield skills, so i put cap rig and 2 Solidifier rigs to increase shield boost rate :) It worked.
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Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
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Posted - 2011.06.15 15:17:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 15/06/2011 15:20:22
Originally by: Sellendis
When i started, i could barely fit the ship worth a damn. So i made a crap-fit that "worked", and improved from there. Best part is, refitted to this old starter setup and ran a few L4s, and its still kicking ass.
Take notice i was poor like crap then and thinking i could do better fits then battleclinic :)
Well .. horribly careful as i am I trained up my cap skills first and for mid slots I use:
1. Afterburner - after all speed is a big part of your tank. Use the Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst subsystem for 600+ m/s
2. Small deadspace shield booster - with the subsystem bonus and 3. it's really enough
3. Shield Boost Amplifier - to increase booster amount even more
4. Invulnerability Field
5. Mission specific Passive Shield Amplifier
6. Mission specific Passive Shield Amplifier
Recommended to train at least EM Shield Compensation skill (gives bonus to passive resist) up for this setup as EM is the only big resist gap.
With this setup I can run it cap stable with AB and booster on, 500~ish dps with T1 Thunderbolts to 810 DPS with Scourge Furies (using implants). Never get below 90% shield this way, not even in AE4 bonus room.
Rigs:
* Rigor rig to increase damage on webbers and scrammers
* T2 Rate of Fire missile rig (Medium Bay Loading Accelerator II) for extra DPS
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