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Fiddles McGiggles
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Posted - 2011.06.09 14:43:00 -
[1]
If you start thinking of botting as a plague, disease, or infestation you'll understand that killing off the weakest botters (the ones that get caught) solves nothing. Why? Plagues, diseases and infestations all have some kind of "cure." Mainly: Pesticides and antibiotics. But do pesticides and antibiotics really fix the problem? In the short term of course they do. And in a few rare cases they have altogether destroyed a population of bacteria or pest. But in the long run there is a never ending battle to come up with stronger "cures". What pesticides and antibiotics do is kill of the weakest part of a population, maybe 95-99% of the weakest members of a given population. What is left is 1-5% of the strongest most resistant strain of that population. This is (un)natural selection. When that strain reproduces you have an entire population immune to the original cure. This begins the cycle going on today with antibiotics/disease and pesticides/pests.
Botting is a serious plague for all MMOs . And the typical solution is the ban hammer. Figure out how a bot works, or who is botting and ban a massive amount of them. Does this get rid of the persons behind the computer willing and able to use a macro to gain an unfair advantage over players that actually play? Those people will always exist. So banning that person only causes them to come up with more innovative ways to bot. And we see a cycle going on today with bans/botters. ItÆs the same in every MMO.
Banning wonÆt ever work to solve the problem. ItÆs only a quick fix until the next bot is developed. To solve a problem with out drastically changing the structure of an MMO you need to be equally innovative. Make an environment that doesnÆt foster botting. Incorporate botting into the game somehow. ThereÆs a lot of innovative ideas in these forums alone.
Banning botters just makes better botters. Stop doing it.
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Scorpii Orion
Scorpii Orion Corp
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Posted - 2011.06.09 14:46:00 -
[2]
Yeah, too much boring grinding in EVE for ISK. Not a wonder why there are so many bots around..
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
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Posted - 2011.06.09 14:47:00 -
[3]
The Red Sox beat the Yankees for the second day in a row, and the Bruins beat Vancouver 4-0 to tie the series at 2 apiece. Good day for Boston sports.
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Reeper 2435
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Posted - 2011.06.09 14:47:00 -
[4]
So... how long is your main banned for?? Threads like this only get started by those who are caught or complete morons. And since you have proven you can read and write, you're no moron. So, what ya do?
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Irulan Corinno
Caldari 714th SQN - Snowflakes
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Posted - 2011.06.09 14:47:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Irulan Corinno on 09/06/2011 14:47:12
Agreed, rogue drones should be banned from EVE!!
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Kerrisone
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Posted - 2011.06.09 14:49:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Fiddles McGiggles If you start thinking of botting as a plague, disease, or infestation you'll understand that killing off the weakest botters (the ones that get caught) solves nothing. Why? Plagues, diseases and infestations all have some kind of "cure." Mainly: Pesticides and antibiotics. But do pesticides and antibiotics really fix the problem? In the short term of course they do. And in a few rare cases they have altogether destroyed a population of bacteria or pest. But in the long run there is a never ending battle to come up with stronger "cures". What pesticides and antibiotics do is kill of the weakest part of a population, maybe 95-99% of the weakest members of a given population. What is left is 1-5% of the strongest most resistant strain of that population. This is (un)natural selection. When that strain reproduces you have an entire population immune to the original cure. This begins the cycle going on today with antibiotics/disease and pesticides/pests.
Botting is a serious plague for all MMOs . And the typical solution is the ban hammer. Figure out how a bot works, or who is botting and ban a massive amount of them. Does this get rid of the persons behind the computer willing and able to use a macro to gain an unfair advantage over players that actually play? Those people will always exist. So banning that person only causes them to come up with more innovative ways to bot. And we see a cycle going on today with bans/botters. ItÆs the same in every MMO.
Banning wonÆt ever work to solve the problem. ItÆs only a quick fix until the next bot is developed. To solve a problem with out drastically changing the structure of an MMO you need to be equally innovative. Make an environment that doesnÆt foster botting. Incorporate botting into the game somehow. ThereÆs a lot of innovative ideas in these forums alone.
Banning botters just makes better botters. Stop doing it.
All that BS to advocate making botting part of accepted gameplay?
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Fiddles McGiggles
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Posted - 2011.06.09 14:57:00 -
[7]
Quote: All that BS to advocate making botting part of accepted gameplay?
Kind of like it's now accepted to pay real money for ISK.
It really has no bearing if you think I'm botter or not, banning doesn't get rid of the person or the persons computer that gives them the ability to bot. It just makes them a smarter botter. That's a failure.
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.06.09 15:02:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Fiddles McGiggles It really has no bearing if you think I'm botter or not, banning doesn't get rid of the person or the persons computer that gives them the ability to bot. It just makes them a smarter botter. That's a failure.
It obviously DOES have an effect otherwise you wouldn't be posting.
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
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Posted - 2011.06.09 15:11:00 -
[9]
When you plug your computer to internet, you have accepted the security risk involved. When you write your credit card number to some form in internet you have again accepted the security risks involved. When some security breach takes place, you deny everything and point finger to someone else. ------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :) |
Fiddles McGiggles
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Posted - 2011.06.09 15:15:00 -
[10]
You're 100% correct. Silly me trying to educate the "WHY ISN'T CCP DOING ANYTHING ABOUT BOTS" crowd.
Let's just talk about DUST.
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Lady Spank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.06.09 15:21:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Fiddles McGiggles You're 100% correct. Silly me trying to educate the "WHY ISN'T CCP DOING ANYTHING ABOUT BOTS" crowd.
Let's just talk about DUST.
Educate my butt. You are clueless and your 'make macros legal' stupid sentiment isn't worth much more than derision.
~~~
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mia mia
Caldari Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.06.09 15:30:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Fiddles McGiggles Banning botters just makes better botters. Stop doing it.
What you say is 100% accurate, but what is a viable solution. It's easy to wave your arms and say, "this is bad." It's entirely another thing to come up with a solution that has a positive return on investment (this includes not ****ing off your current subscribers).
Full eradication is probably impossible. I mean that literally. Is a simple reduction in bots acceptable? What price are we willing to pay for that reduction. This is a much harder question than people realize. Perhaps that's why macros, botting and RL gold farming are constants across industries (gaming, advertising, etc.).
What would you be willing to put up with for a percentage decrease in bots? That question always brings interesting arguments.
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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.09 15:31:00 -
[13]
So because botters improve their bots it is pointless to even try to remove them?
The most stupid argument ever heard and it clearly comes from a bot user. I hope CCP permabans your sorry ass back to the nearest AsiagrinderÖ!
Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
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Terrante
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.09 15:31:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Fiddles McGiggles If you start thinking of botting as a plague, disease, or infestation you'll understand that killing off the weakest botters (the ones that get caught) solves nothing. Why? Plagues, diseases and infestations all have some kind of "cure." Mainly: Pesticides and antibiotics. But do pesticides and antibiotics really fix the problem? In the short term of course they do. And in a few rare cases they have altogether destroyed a population of bacteria or pest. But in the long run there is a never ending battle to come up with stronger "cures". What pesticides and antibiotics do is kill of the weakest part of a population, maybe 95-99% of the weakest members of a given population. What is left is 1-5% of the strongest most resistant strain of that population. This is (un)natural selection. When that strain reproduces you have an entire population immune to the original cure. This begins the cycle going on today with antibiotics/disease and pesticides/pests.
Botting is a serious plague for all MMOs . And the typical solution is the ban hammer. Figure out how a bot works, or who is botting and ban a massive amount of them. Does this get rid of the persons behind the computer willing and able to use a macro to gain an unfair advantage over players that actually play? Those people will always exist. So banning that person only causes them to come up with more innovative ways to bot. And we see a cycle going on today with bans/botters. ItÆs the same in every MMO.
Banning wonÆt ever work to solve the problem. ItÆs only a quick fix until the next bot is developed. To solve a problem with out drastically changing the structure of an MMO you need to be equally innovative. Make an environment that doesnÆt foster botting. Incorporate botting into the game somehow. ThereÆs a lot of innovative ideas in these forums alone.
Banning botters just makes better botters. Stop doing it.
The same arguement can be used for every type of criminal activity (scamming, insider trading etc...), which basically means that the laws are not worth applying, because they do not stop criminals?
This is your argument??
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Terrante
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.09 15:35:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Scorpii Orion Yeah, too much boring grinding in EVE for ISK. Not a wonder why there are so many bots around..
Go play something else if you don't like the game. Does not justify going against the EULA, just because the game is to boring for you.
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Atticus Fynch
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.06.09 15:35:00 -
[16]
I agree, dont ban them...leave them to us.
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Spurty
Caldari V0LTA VOLTA Corp
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Posted - 2011.06.09 15:41:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ingvar Angst The Red Sox beat the Yankees for the second day in a row, and the Bruins beat Vancouver 4-0 to tie the series at 2 apiece. Good day for Boston sports.
HI 5 o/\o
as for OP, great attitude! Oh wait a mo, that's terrible thinking going on in your head at the moment.
Did my post force you to resort to a meme as a reply? Congrats, you're a moron.
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.09 15:46:00 -
[18]
0/10 troll.
You say it is the worst possible solution and then fail to compare or contrast it to anything.
You utterly fail. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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Xessej
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Posted - 2011.06.09 15:49:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Xessej on 09/06/2011 15:49:57 The op misunderstands evolution as it occurs when a pathogen is exposed to an antibiotic. It is not strictly the "strongest" that survives. It is the mutant that for some reason is not susceptible. However that mutant almost always pays a significant price for that mutation. That is why a course of anyibiotics can cure an illness. The drug kills almost all of the bacteria in question and the body's own immune system deals with the left over weaklings. The problem comes up when those weaklings with a useful resistance mutation are allowed to mingle with "normal" bacteria. Bacteria transfer genetic material fairly indiscrimately and it may occur that the gene for resistance gets transfered to a healthy strong bacteria and that's where stuff like MRSA comes from.
This analogizes quite well to what CCP does to botters. Squash every one they catch and the people behind them are busy writing new bots so there it is hard for the bots to thrive since they have to switch software on a continuous basis which keeps the bots "weak."
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2011.06.09 17:24:00 -
[20]
You are correct. We can never get rid of all bots as we can never get rid of all bacteria or viruses.
Okay, let's use radiotion to kill off your bone marrow, destroying your immune system, and send you out into the world.
You'd be dead in a day.
Just because we can't get rid of all bacteria... I mean botters, does not mean that CCP should not wage a constant war against them, keeping their numbers in check, and preventing them from flat our destroying the game.
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2011.06.09 17:28:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Scorpii Orion Yeah, too much boring grinding in EVE for ISK. Not a wonder why there are so many bots around..
If those activites do not appeal to you, then do not do them.
If you do not like mining and want it to become automated like PI, then just do PI instead of mining.
If you don't like mission running, then fly around in a pack of cheap t1 fit t1 ships killing off T2 fit T2 ships, looting and salvaging for ISK.
Or, join an allaince that funds ship repayment programs through moon goo.
Or join a mecranary corp and get paid by others to kill people.
There are TONS of things you can do in EVE that are not "grindy". Leave the "grindy" stuff to the people that do not find it boring.
Oh... wait... you were actually just trying to justify your cheating....
To bad. Cheating is cheating, and is not justifiable by saying that there are askects of teh game that do not appeal to you.
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Henry Haphorn
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.09 17:40:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Henry Haphorn on 09/06/2011 17:40:58 Wow, what a nice way to say "please allow botting in Eve Online". Very nice attempt. Too bad your request fell on deaf ears.
EDIT: Actually, no. Not too bad. Good ridance.
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Mizar Alcor
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Posted - 2011.06.09 17:43:00 -
[23]
Originally by: LHA Tarawa Just because we can't get rid of all bacteria... I mean botters, does not mean that CCP should not wage a constant war against them, keeping their numbers in check, and preventing them from flat our destroying the game.
^^This^^
The whole "If you cannot stop them, Do not bother trying" argument is soooooo tired, and flat out ignorant. Yes OP its obvious you got caught, but thats beside the point. CCP doesn't want you anymore, alot of players do not want you in the game as well. So you go buy that shiney new account and wait for the next BanHammer to waste your money and your time.
If you applied your wisdom to WW2 we would all be ruled by ****s now...
Have fun being Mad |
Katra Novac
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Posted - 2011.06.09 17:52:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Katra Novac on 09/06/2011 17:55:46
Originally by: Fiddles McGiggles
Quote: All that BS to advocate making botting part of accepted gameplay?
Kind of like it's now accepted to pay real money for ISK.
It really has no bearing if you think I'm botter or not, banning doesn't get rid of the person or the persons computer that gives them the ability to bot. It just makes them a smarter botter. That's a failure.
Smarter botters is not a failure, the failure would be to just let it happen without trying to stop them.
CCP fighting botters is a good thing and they should continue that fight, the more they hurt botters the better.
Virus, trojan program writers write more sophisticated programs over time and so do the virus checkers. It's the way it is, it does not mean that the virus checker program writers should just give up.
Botters ruin the game so why should CCP not try to combat those that use them.
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Blacksquirrel
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Posted - 2011.06.09 17:53:00 -
[25]
One shouldnt stop robbers or thieves. I mean there's always going to be another one. Given this fact please leave your keys in the car, and your house unlocked. It's your fault anyway for having nice stuff. Now once your stuff is taken BAM! Problem solved now no more robbers or thieves taking your ****.
Furthermore implementing security measures around your house only makes the good ones more curious, thus inviting more trouble... Once again dont take action as someone else might take their place later.
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Terrante
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.09 17:56:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Blacksquirrel One shouldnt stop robbers or thieves. I mean there's always going to be another one. Given this fact please leave your keys in the car, and your house unlocked. It's your fault anyway for having nice stuff. Now once your stuff is taken BAM! Problem solved now no more robbers or thieves taking your ****.
Furthermore implementing security measures around your house only makes the good ones more curious, thus inviting more trouble... Once again dont take action as someone else might take their place later.
What planet do you live on??
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Burn Jita Down
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Posted - 2011.06.09 17:58:00 -
[27]
I've come across a lot of people in game over the years who openly bot. They all find stupid little ways to justify their blatant cheating and sound a lot like OP.
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Blacksquirrel
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Posted - 2011.06.09 18:01:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Terrante
Originally by: Blacksquirrel One shouldnt stop robbers or thieves. I mean there's always going to be another one. Given this fact please leave your keys in the car, and your house unlocked. It's your fault anyway for having nice stuff. Now once your stuff is taken BAM! Problem solved now no more robbers or thieves taking your ****.
Furthermore implementing security measures around your house only makes the good ones more curious, thus inviting more trouble... Once again dont take action as someone else might take their place later.
What planet do you live on??
One in which jokes are not gotten and sarcasm is misunderstood for being literal.
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.06.09 19:46:00 -
[29]
Alter the EULA so that CCP has legal basis to sue you if they find you botting or RMTing. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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Kerrisone
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Posted - 2011.06.09 20:10:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Alter the EULA so that CCP has legal basis to sue you if they find you botting or RMTing.
/thread
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