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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.15 11:58:00 -
[1]
 Originally by: ShahFluffers
your quotes are garbage..I've told you that before...
Okay I'll start here. As much as I would love the Idea that convincing you guys would be enough to change something in eve,it sadly wont. If the ideas that are brought to the csm and passed up to ccp don't get acknowledged then neither will mine. And to an extent I agree that this change would most likely be too much work for ccp for the small change that it would bring forth. That said my main goal in this thread was not to change anything but to simply state my opinion. Apart from that the people who would have to vote on my behalf would be the mission runner crowd which for the most part have no interest in pvp what so ever. Because while being a solution to much confusion it would do just that,offer a new opportunity for pvp in high sec while eliminating a risk free way to earn isk.
Originally by: ShahFluffers
I personally don't see an issue with ninja-salvaging (and the quotes I posted on the first page show CCP doesn't have an issue with it either). And skimming through this thread I think it's safe to say that many others here do not see it as a problem.
First off I have to say I disagree that ninja salvaging doesn't cause a problem. So being a topic that has been beaten to death I'm not too sure where to start. I think I'll start with your quotes on page one that everyone values so highly.Lets break them down and see what they actually bring to the table.
Keep in mind that I will treat what ccp says as gods word just for the sake of argument. After all it is their game.
1. CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal
"Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing."
In quote one the link doesn't work so all I have to go on is the quote itself and not what was said in the thread. And the quote says nothing other than that ccp wants it to be a mini profession and doesn't consider salvaging as theft.
2. GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu
Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage.
Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.
In quote two say the same thing basically,that its an intended game mechanic and not an exploit. I for one never said it was an exploit but that it was a bad game design. But I'll get to that later on in this post.
The key part of this quote is the bottom half.
Originally by: GM Faolchu
Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along.
"Eve is a harsh place....it's a do or die world".
What is harsh about scanning down a player who cant shoot you,and salvaging his wrecks while he tanks the mission? Nothing at all. Its free isk. Not only that but it takes nothing to train an alt which can do this,I estimate two weeks if not less. Even faster now that we have the 100% training time bonus on new characters.
Continued below...
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.15 12:01:00 -
[2]
Originally by: HeIIfire11
3. Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium
Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit.
This one is very very interesting and a major key in my argument. You quoted the part that you wanted to see but not the relevant part. One of the most used arguments are "it's not your wreck and only the loot inside is yours". I am going to kill this argument once and for all. Now again,keep I'm mind that we are taking the word of CCP as the word of god. The part you should have quoted is this...
Originally by: GM Ytterbium
The wreck ownership mechanism has recently been changed, and as such will not belong to the character doing most damage to the NPC anymore, but to the pilot who first accepted the mission.
Wow..now this brings a whole new light on the subject now doesn't it? This is a senior GM who states that the wreck does in fact belong to the pilot who accepted the mission. This along with the fact that the wreck has my corp name on it,can not be shot or tractor beamed by anyone but myself and my corp clearly proves that the wreck is in fact...mine. He doesn't say It belongs to me as long as my loot is in there,but that it is plain and simple..mine.
4. CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X
Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing.
In this quote CCP Prism x took it upon himself to get a little sarcastic.
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window.
No **** Sherlock. But he doesn't address any of the key points players bring up in this or any other thread on this subject. All he says is that "It's not stealing" which clearly contradicts what Senior GM Ytterbium stated in the quote above. As far as I know taking anything from a wreck that is mine (which we have proven to be mine) is stealing. So either they need to talk it over what it is exactly that they want,or to fix the game mechanic to reflect this choice. Like change the ownership of the wreck when looted. So until they decide what it is they want,I will call it bad game design. Simple as that. Why? Because the game mechanic doesn't reflect what they say it is intended to be.
5. CCP Incognito : Originally by: CCP Incognito
Had a chat with some designers this evening.
Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private.
They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks.
This quote confirms my statement from above and again contradicts what Senior GM Ytterbium stated in his post. It confirms my statement that the game mechanic doesn't reflect what the designers intend it to be hence its bad game design as I have said many times in this thread. Bad game design which causes confusion and these threads that keep arising on this subject.
He has spoken with the designers and they have concluded that the wreck is not mine but the loot is. Why then after the wreck is looted,does it remain unchanged? I still can't shoot it or tractor beam it as a salvager or someone not in that corp.
This again confirms a problem and a contradiction in the game design as far as salvaging goes.
Continued below...
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.15 12:14:00 -
[3]
Quoted posts above come from this thread..
Linkage
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.15 13:47:00 -
[4]
And because Tippia seems to be repeating the same thing after being proven wrong..I'll just leave this here as ammo for the "the can is yours not the wreck" argument.
"In Kali all ships (player and NPC) will spawn wrecks upon destruction. This will replace the loot can."
But that's as far as I go into this argument. Just dropping off some ammo for the op 
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.15 15:01:00 -
[5]
Originally by: salty Milk
Edited by: salty Milk on 15/06/2011 14:46:08
Something from Kali is your "proof"?
Do you know what Kali is and what happened since Kali?
EDIT:
QUITE IMPORTANT BIT AT THE TOP:
confessions of a married man
reported by CCP SoniClover | 2006.07.07 10:42:43 | Comments
Wut?
Way to go.. read around the relevant part and really think that I care lol. The only words you need to be reading are wreck, replace and can. Take it slow I'd say..you gotta crawl before you walk.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.15 20:57:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Diva Bara
Really? How exactly are noobs protected in those systems?
Hint: not at all.
By banning people who break the rules.
Originally by: HeIIfire11
And because Tippia seems to be repeating the same thing after being proven wrong..I'll just leave this here as ammo for the "the can is yours not the wreck" argument.
And none of that changes the fact that salvaging a wreck is never stealing, so regardless of what you think of it, the ownership of the wreck is 100% irrelevant.
You keep getting tripped up by a heuristic that explains what you can and cannot do to the wrecks and why. The easiest of these heuristics is "the wreck is not yours, the can inside it is" because that explains everything you need to know. Whether that model is following the exact wording of every dev statement ever doesn't matter ù the model is in line with what actually happens in game and is therefore a better representation and explanation.
No..I'll tell you what the problem is. The "miniprofession" is unfinished like every other profession in eve. The only reason this is so confusing is because they would either have to change all the wrecks to flag the salvager..or create a seperate wreck model to use in missions. Both is too much work. You keep defending them lol. Makes you look just as stupid..I don't mind. There is no can inside the wreck but you can continue to make pretend there is and ignore what I quote. Only what you quote is true right? You may also continue to think ccp is perfect and salvaging is perfectly as intended
What an idiot..I'm done with it fanboy.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.17 11:35:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: HeIIfire11
The only reason this is so confusing is because they would either have to change all the wrecks to flag the salvager..or create a seperate wreck model to use in missions.
Why would they have to do either of those? Flagging the salvager wouldn't serve the purpose of making the roles clearer ù it would in fact do the opposite. Creating separate wreck models for missions wouldn't make much sense either, since they'd still be free for all.
Quote:
You keep defending them lol.
Not really, no. I'm simply explaining how the game works.
Quote:
There is no can inside the wreck but you can continue to make pretend there is and ignore what I quote.
How is this so hard for you to understand: what you wrote is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that the wrecks are free for all. This is best explained through the model of saying "wrecks are not yours, the can inside them are". Whether that is what happens code-wise isn't important. What is important is for people to understand what they can and cannot do, and that model ù short and simple as it may be ù explains it fully.
Quote:
salvaging is perfectly as intended
Wrecks being free for all to salvage is working just as intended, yes.
Really? Fascinating! I don't need you of all people to tell me how the game works. I on the other hand am telling you what causes these countless threads of confusion and that is bad game design..same bad game design you constantly try to justify and thus make yourself look like a narrow minded fanboy. But do carry on.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.17 12:17:00 -
[8]
Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 17/06/2011 12:18:24
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: HeIIfire11
I on the other hand am telling you what causes these countless threads of confusion and that is bad game design.
àwhich doesn't help in clearing up the confusion.
You justifying it doesn't help either. And while you highjack every thread on this subject with your arrogant opinion no solution or ideas on how to make it better can be established.
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: HeIIfire11
same bad game design you constantly try to justify
No, I'm explaining it. Different thing.
You explain the bad game design...right. Look at what you're posting please.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.17 12:28:00 -
[9]
I don't understand why you argue about this. It is clear that this game is full....full of flaws.Fw is broken and unfinished, PI is broken and under constant work, the bounty system is worthless, hybrids being broken have taken Gallente out of the competition, npc ewar is broken, the rr mechanic was broken which you defended and was fixed just like I said it would be as incursion came out..there is so much unfinished work in this game and the wreck mechanics which cause confusion is one of them.
Who says these things are broken? A forum full of people complaining about them..thats who.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.17 12:58:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: HeIIfire11
You justifying it doesn't help either.
It's a good thing that I'm not doing that, then.
Quote:
And while you highjack every thread on this subject with your arrogant opinion no solution or ideas on how to make it better can be established.
Sure they can ù it's just that no-one ever wants to offer any ideas for how to solve the problems.
Quote:
You explain the bad game design...right.
No, I explain the mechanics.
Quote:
I don't understand why you argue about this.
Argue what? I'm saying that wrecks are free for all to salvage. I'm saying it because they are. There's nothing broken about that.
Quote:
there is so much unfinished work in this game and the wreck mechanics which cause confusion is one of them.
Fortunately, those mechanics can be explained very easily by saying "the wreck isn't yours, the can inside it is".
Quote:
Who says these things are broken? A forum full of people complaining about them..thats who.
There's a difference between "broken" and "not working the way I want them to"à A vast majority of the people claiming salvaging is broken is actually saying "I want that salvage to be mine without any additional work", which isn't really the same thing.
Your arguments are no longer worth quoting because they are the same worthless crap you always say "the can blah blah". The can was replaced and this was said by a dev who introduced wrecks. No Tippia your make believe can does not exist. Keep defending your perfect game and while you are at it pull apart this thread why don't you.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1529511
I will no longer read or respond to any of your posts. Those that have eyes...let them see. You are not worth another second of my time.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.17 16:35:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Tippia
Bunch of useless bull****
You really are one stupid mother ****er. One thing is sure..you have made an enemy in this game. Don't say you weren't warned.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.17 20:04:00 -
[12]
Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 17/06/2011 20:06:24
Originally by: Riedle
Originally by: HeIIfire11
Originally by: Tippia
Bunch of useless bull****
You really are one stupid mother ****er. One thing is sure..you have made an enemy in this game. Don't say you weren't warned.
I can haz your enemy too?
Because i think your argument is full of crap, you have been unable to make your point other than to say that you want it to work your way because you are used to getting your way with everything in life.
Awaiting war dec
Riedle
My point has been made perfectly clear. If you are too ******ed to read blame your mother.
Also..don't think everyone is as stupid as you. I don't post with my main you fing muppetBe carefull for what you ask. Same goes for the two above you.
Oh and Tippia you are nothing but talk..I've done my homework and if you would log on for more than 5 min a day your ass would have been mine long ago. Start playing the game or give me your main and we can have at it.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.17 20:23:00 -
[13]
Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 17/06/2011 20:28:16
Originally by: cyndrogen
the biggest misconception about eve is that lowsec is somehow more dangerous then highsec. Not really, in my experience it's actually safer, only 10% or less of the player base is in lowsec, usually the 0.4 systems leading into highsec are camped but since bubbles don't work it's really easy to slip through eve n in a shuttle. There are many opportunities in lowsec not available in highsec and it's relatively quiet.
If you want to be left alone go into deep lowsec and enjoy a virtually player free environment!
I'm serious yes.
Who said anything about being alone? I don't get ninja salvaged nor do I play alone. Why would you want to play this game alone? My argument is just in general when it comes to the salvaging mechanic.
Infact I've said it many times before..I don't even salvage. It doesn't take a genius to see it's not working right when people keep complaining about it.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.17 20:35:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: HeIIfire11
Oh and Tippia you are nothing but talk.
àand yet, you haven't been able to prove an of that talk wrong.
Quote:
I've done my homework
àand yet you think the model is wrong? Would you care to point out how? With all that homework, it shouldn't be hard to point out something that it doesn't cover.
Quote:
if you would log on for more than 5 min a day
Maybe you should do your homework.
It's all been said before..you can kiss my ass really. The key points are on the last page..reread them. Those are the reasons people start these threads. Because the only thing telling people that the wrecks are not theirs are you and ccp. The game mechanic sure doesn't.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.17 20:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: HeIIfire11
It's all been said before..you can kiss my ass really.
No thanks.
Quote:
The key points are on the last page..reread them. Those are the reasons people start these threads.
Nope. Nothing there to show that there's anything wrong with the model.
Quote:
Because the only thing telling people that the wrecks are not theirs are you and ccp. The game mechanic sure doesn't.
Hence the usefulness of the model.
Oh, and the mechanics sure hint at it since you can remove wrecks without any repercussion.
You and your model..what fing model. And the fact that you can remove a wreck that only I can shoot,tractor beam and has my corp name on it is the problem. Period.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.17 20:54:00 -
[16]
Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 17/06/2011 20:56:05
Originally by: ShahFluffers
Isn't it reasonable to assume (especially in light of the first quote) that he was referring to wrecks in the sense that the "loot" inside the wrecks would belong to the person who accepted the mission and NOT everything in the mission?
And before you say "then he should have said it like that, but he didn't, so thus I'm right" bear in mind that GMs are people too and they will usually say things in the "simplest/easiest" way possible... which unfortunately leads to confusion if people take them too literally (as you seem to).
YOu throw these quotes in every thread on this subject..I just took them apart. I take them as literally as you do. Simple as that.
Originally by: ShahFluffers
Originally by: HeIIfire11
Also..don't think everyone is as stupid as you. I don't post with my main you fing muppetBe carefull for what you ask. Same goes for the two above you.
Oh and Tippia you are nothing but talk..I've done my homework and if you would log on for more than 5 min a day your ass would have been mine long ago. Start playing the game or give me your main and we can have at it.
Ahhh bravado. You sure showed them (and me). Tell ya what... if you do want to follow through on your bark, come to the system of Auga in the Hed constellation. I'm usually on after 9pm PST.
Right..follow through on my bark and war dec someones troll alt with my mission alt..even better come looking for you and waste my time Hold your breath I'll be there soon.
As for Tippia..he wont throw his main out there and since I will be leaving this game for lack of content..I will do the best I can by liquidating around 40 bill in assets and making sure his "alt" has some fun out of it for the next few months. Either that or he will ***** up and leave the corp. Either way is fine. And that without even logging on lol.
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: HeIIfire11
You and your model..what fing model.
"The wreck isn't yours, the can inside is."
Quote:
And the fact that you can remove a wreck that only I can shoot,tractor beam and has my corp name on it is the problem.
àwhich is easily explained by "the wreck isn't yours, the can inside is."
No..there is no can.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.17 21:02:00 -
[17]
Originally by: cyndrogen
Edited by: cyndrogen on 17/06/2011 20:47:23
Originally by: HeIIfire11
Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 17/06/2011 20:28:16
Originally by: cyndrogen
the biggest misconception about eve is that lowsec is somehow more dangerous then highsec. Not really, in my experience it's actually safer, only 10% or less of the player base is in lowsec, usually the 0.4 systems leading into highsec are camped but since bubbles don't work it's really easy to slip through eve n in a shuttle. There are many opportunities in lowsec not available in highsec and it's relatively quiet.
If you want to be left alone go into deep lowsec and enjoy a virtually player free environment!
I'm serious yes.
Who said anything about being alone? I don't get ninja salvaged nor do I play alone. Why would you want to play this game alone? My argument is just in general when it comes to the salvaging mechanic.
Infact I've said it many times before..I don't even salvage. It doesn't take a genius to see it's not working right when people keep complaining about it.
The salvaging mechanic is a bit of a pain since tractor beams don't work on wrecks that do not belong to you.
So while you CAN salvage other peoples wrecks it's much slower then salvaging your own, you lose money by spending more time salvaging another persons loot when you can make more by running the mission AND salvaging yourself. It's also much easier to accept a mission then deploy probes to scan for the wrecks.
The main point is that it is risk free. It is a pvp encounter that the mission runner can't respond to.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.17 21:10:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: HeIIfire11
As for Tippia..he wont throw his main out there
Sure I will.
What are you waiting for?
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: HeIIfire11
The main point is that it is risk free. It is a pvp encounter that the mission runner can't respond to.
If it's salvaging you're talking about then it has the same risk for both participants, and the mission runner most certainly can respond to this pvp encounter.
No he can't when he's doing the mission.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.17 21:21:00 -
[19]
Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 17/06/2011 21:24:36
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: HeIIfire11
What are you waiting for?
I'm not waiting.
Quote:
No he can't when he's doing the mission.
Sure he can. Tractor, salvager, AB/MWD ù all tools of the tradeà hell, the guns will work if he wants to go for a scorched-earth kind of win.
So you're saying this is your main? If so I'm out of luck I guess because you do nothing but play forum warrior and hardly log on.
Originally by: Riedle
Careful everyone - he's an internet tough guy.
respect his authority!
lols
Not claiming the inet tough guy but I have enough isk if not more to do anything you can do in this game. There are plenty of people who want to earn isk.
Originally by: ShahFluffers
Your stuff? Can I haz? I'll even make you a deal... give me your stuff and I'll edit all my posts in this thread to say you are right and that people should support this motion (no, seriously, I would). 
As if I give a **** about your saying I'm right Get a life you aren't nearly important enough. And if you want my stuff show me some Tippia kill mails (because you and your corp are bored) and you can get payed. 
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.17 21:28:00 -
[20]
Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 17/06/2011 21:28:13
Originally by: Riedle
Careful everyone - he's an internet toughRICH guy.
respect his authority!
lols
40 bill isn't rich really but I guess to someone like you it is. And when you're rich you don't have to be tough.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.17 21:32:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: HeIIfire11
So you're saying this is your main? If so I'm out of luck I guess because you do nothing but play forum warrior and hardly log on.
Like I said: do your homework.
àincidentally, that would also have revealed to you what tools the MR has at his disposal to respond to a competing salvager. Unsurprisingly, they're the tools of a salvager.
Ahh..so you are a ***** just like I thought.
As far as th mr goes I mean fighting and not salvaging which the mr can't do without aggro.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.17 21:37:00 -
[22]
Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 17/06/2011 21:37:56
Originally by: Baaldor
Originally by: HeIIfire11
Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 17/06/2011 21:28:13
Originally by: Riedle
Careful everyone - he's an internet toughRICH guy.
respect his authority!
lols
40 bill isn't rich really but I guess to someone like you it is. And when you're rich you don't have to be tough.
Sup, I'll be your huckleberry....
Your killboard looks nice I might get back to you on that.
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: HeIIfire11
As far as th mr goes I mean fighting and not salvaging which the mr can't do without aggro.
So when you wrote "no he can't", you didn't actually read what it was you were responding to.
Goodie.
I was right about the b i t c h part though...Goodie.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.17 21:52:00 -
[23]
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Thread cleaned of some trolling and off-topic posts. Please only reply if you have something constructive and on topic to contribute to the discussion.
And the post above yours is constructive
Guess good ole Tip had enough and reported me
Baaldor I will look you guys up and if you meet my needs we can talk buisness. Will contact you in game soon. If not c&p is full of opportunities Tipp
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.17 22:10:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: HeIIfire11
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: HeIIfire11
You and your model..what fing model.
"The wreck isn't yours, the can inside is."
Quote:
And the fact that you can remove a wreck that only I can shoot,tractor beam and has my corp name on it is the problem.
àwhich is easily explained by "the wreck isn't yours, the can inside is."
No..there is no can.
àand there are no electrons whizzing around the nucleus in discrete orbits, but Bohr's model still explains the spectral lines of a helium atom.
Whether there is a can or not is completely irrelevant ù the model explains the behaviour of wrecks.
Originally by: HeIIfire11
Originally by: cyndrogen
The salvaging mechanic is a bit of a pain since tractor beams don't work on wrecks that do not belong to you.
So while you CAN salvage other peoples wrecks it's much slower then salvaging your own, you lose money by spending more time salvaging another persons loot when you can make more by running the mission AND salvaging yourself. It's also much easier to accept a mission then deploy probes to scan for the wrecks.
The main point is that it is risk free.
And the main counter-point is that both salvagers face the same risks: being slower than the other guy and not getting the swag. In this competition the mission-runner has some distinct advantages, and in terms of risk vs. effort, the ninja is far more deserving of that reward.
àand in a sense, the same can be said about loot: both parties run the risk of being too slow and not getting the reward, but with the added risk of the mission runner being blown up by the NPCs (negligible) and of the theif being blown up by the MR (negligibleà as long as the MR isn't stupid).
And either way, the mission runner most certainly can respond to the competition.
So you're just going to report me and come back with your same old lame arguments? rofl
No point in arguing with you..I wont be in this game much longer anyways.Just long enough to see you burn No turning back now..I hope for your sake that this isn't your main. If it is I will have gotten the chance to teach you something about this gamme after all...never start a forum war with your main. Unless it's all you do which might be the case knowing you
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.18 05:06:00 -
[25]
Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 18/06/2011 05:06:09
Originally by: Riedle
Look mom..I'm on the internet!!!111
No you reject..I don't wanna play with you
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.18 08:38:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Snake Scofield
Wrecks aren't yours, the can inside the wreck is.
Nope.
Originally by: GM Ytterbium
The wreck ownership mechanism has recently been changed, and as such will not belong to the character doing most damage to the NPC anymore, but to the pilot who first accepted the mission.
And nope.
Originally by: CCP SoniClover
In Kali all ships (player and NPC) will spawn wrecks upon destruction. This will replace the loot can.
I'm not sure what's so hard to understand either really.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.18 09:55:00 -
[27]
Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 18/06/2011 09:59:56
Originally by: Snake Scofield
Edited by: Snake Scofield on 18/06/2011 09:05:40
Very good. Nice quotes.
Maybe easier to say that the salvage rights to a wreck don't belong to anybody.
It doesn't matter though, it's obvious you're going to persist regardless of what anyone says. I don't care if it's changed or not, I'll just play it the way it is now.
Edit:
Actually come to think of it, why should you have any rights to anything? If there's a can sitting in space, first come first served. That's a bit more realistic and more fitting with the eve style in my opinion. Make it all up for grabs, no flagging.
The point I am making is not that it should change really..I don't want the stinking salvage tbh. People assume it belongs to them because of how it works. My point is that the game mechanic doesn't reflect what they want it to be. I know they want it free for all and they can have it. But then let everyone tractor beam wrecs, don't protect empty or full wrecks by concord, don't leave my corp name on it empty or not, make wrecks scannable and not players. These are the misleading facts that cause these threads.
Unfinished , sloppy, lazy coded and typical ccp mini profession. Nothing new.
Edit: I have..within the many huge discussions proposed many changes yes and even my favorite (flag the salvager) but what it boils down to is that it's just another unfinished bunch of crap like many other professions in eve and on top of it all in my opinion it is risk free and nothing but a griefer tool. (risk free for the ninja that is)
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.18 10:03:00 -
[28]
Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 18/06/2011 10:06:02
Honestly I'm sick of the topic. If you really are intrested in this topic read through this which contains all arguments from both sides pretty much. Here you go..have fun.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1501137&page=1
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.18 16:02:00 -
[29]
Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 18/06/2011 16:07:11
Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 18/06/2011 15:52:35
Originally by: HeIIfire11
Originally by: Snake Scofield
Wrecks aren't yours, the can inside the wreck is.
Nope.
You're missing the important part of that quote:
"Hi, I'm new to this game. à I dont see what's so hard to understand."
Do you understand why this model is so handy now? Because it explains the mechanics in full in such a way that even new players can pick it up instantly. If you want to tack on "yes, yes, the mechanics are screwed up and things aren't all that clear, but that's the gist of it" at the end, then feel free to, but the fact remains: the entire thing can be explained in that very short sentence:
The wreck isn't yours, the can inside is.
Quote:
I'm not sure what's so hard to understand either really.
It's not hard to understand. It is just completely irrelevant because it doesn't actually provide any solution to the problem of people being confused by the mechanics ù the model does. Why you are so opposed to a simple model to educate people is quite beyond meà 
Quote:
People assume it belongs to them because of how it works. My point is that the game mechanic doesn't reflect what they want it to be.
And once you slap them in the face with the model, they have a much easier time not assuming that any more. Would it be nice if the mechanics changed so they fully matched the intent, and thus gave salvagers a nice buff? Yes, of course. Until then, the best we can do is educate players and rid them of that assumption, and the model does exactly that.
The players may be new but they are not stupid. Most of the complaints about this comes from newer players thinking they are being robbed for "their" stuff. If your "model" was working right they wouldn't even think it belonged to them in the first place.
So no...it doesn't do what it's intended to do.
Edit: And the game should slap them with the model...not you. Hence my point..it's bad game design.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.18 16:49:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Tippia
]You're still confused about what the model does.
And you are still saying that it is intended to be exactly as it is when it is infact poorly coded. It was thrown together with minimal effort to change as little as possible on the wreck mechanic..thus causing confusion. This...is all I am saying, nothing more.
It is in no way an "educational tool"..you give it way too much credit.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.18 17:01:00 -
[31]
Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 18/06/2011 17:05:26
Originally by: Tippia
Again: not even you, who dislike it so much, has been able to demonstrate a game behaviour that contradicts that mode.
And with this you are dead wrong..everything I mentioned contradicts the fact that ccp wants it to be free for all. Everything but the fact that others can salvage it without getting concorded. If no one ever talked about this game anywhere and you were just thrown in and let loose to play, there is no way you would be able to tell that those mission wrecks don't belong to you..the wrecks and everything that comes with them.
You would see that only you can tractor beam them.
You would see that your corp name is on them.
You would see that only you can shoot them without getting concorded.
You would see that they are a part of your mission and that you killed it and did the work.
And you would see that because they can't be scanned down that you are the only one meant to get at them.
All the game shows you is that this is infact..your wreck. This is my point when I say it is bad game design.
Originally by: Tippia
until the game does work like that ù at which point no slapping would be needed ù the education is needed
And with this you are even agreeing with me that it is infact lacking clarity.
Edit: And you would see that you are the only one that can abandon them..and you cant abandon anything that isn't yours. There would be no need to if it were free for all. Forgot that one.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.18 17:07:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Tippia
and yet, it lets people understand what's going on.
No..you do when they come crying on the forum.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.18 17:47:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Tippia
but those might only show up in L4s, which are a bit beyond the new player's reach.
So you would think yes..then explain to me why people have 2 week old players in their lvl4 missions salvaging their wrecks. Which brings me back to another argument that a player that new has not earned the right to salvage a lvl 4 mission which in some missions can bring you up to 15 million isk. But that's another argument for itself.
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