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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 34 post(s) |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4584
|
Posted - 2012.09.12 11:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:Just a few observations. CCP Xhagen wrote:I also agree that increasing the requirements to get on the ballot is needed. The test during the last election showed that it weeded out some candidates (I cannot remember the exact number), so putting it higher with a slight change to the system should be the way to go. While increasing the requirements modestly isn't a bad thing, putting a hard limit on the number of candidates on the ballot (as some have suggested) will be trivially gamed. Who needs to stuff the ballot box when you can just stuff the ballot itself? For this reason, I would simply modestly tighten the current system that by requiring both a modest registration fee (a few PLEX)...
...which would eliminate those of us who aren't space-rich from running. Sorry bro, but I'm not paying "a few" PLEX just to offer to volunteer. If my time and effort aren't enough to qualify me, I don't see why -ú50 or -ú100 worth of gametime would be.
And before you say it, no I would not let anyone else pay those PLEX on my behalf. For reasons I hope would be obvious. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4584
|
Posted - 2012.09.12 11:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
It's a really foolish, damaging suggestion, is what I'm saying. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4584
|
Posted - 2012.09.12 12:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
Hey, who remembers the $99 API license fee thing and what the CSM said about that?
Yeah well, right back at you, bro. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4597
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Posted - 2012.09.12 18:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dierdra Vaal wrote:
As such I think the real solution is here to encourage and facilitate voting more.
Couldn't agree more. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4602
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 06:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sizeof Void wrote:CCP Xhagen wrote:Regarding platforms or having predefined areas that candidates run for: I've always wanted the CSM to be as much player driven as possible. I feel that by declaring that people have to run on gamestyles limits the CSM in manners that I cannot predict or try to compensate for in other manners.
People can run as an expert on a certain area of the game and many have done that. I want that to come from the candidates, not from CCP.
I've also mentioned it in the past and will continue to do so - it is perfectly alright for CSM people to seek advice from people who are considered experts (as long as there is no NDA violations involved). I'd say that solution is a much better one than stuffing candidates into boxes that limit their horizons. Good in theory, but this is how it is setup now and it isn't working. Under this system, it is simple enough for an organized group of players to gather enough votes to put one or more of their candidates on the CSM, with the apparent intention of pushing their specific agenda...
Yes. This is called Democracy. There is no realistic voting system that will prevent large "organised groups" from getting seats, and it's not clear to me why you'd want to disenfrancise large organised groups, either. If 10000 players want this guy elected, why shouldn't he be elected? Why should their votes mean less just because there's more of them?
The only way that you're going to prevent organisations like the CFC from getting a CSM rep is to advocate that CCP directly choose CSM reps without going through a player voting process.
What you need to understand is that the current system is pretty much the least friendly to large voting blocs, because it's not a "first past the post" system; it's a "first 14 past the post" system. That means that large voting blocs will spend a disproportionate amount of their votes on a candidate (mittens' 10,000 votes would have been enough to elect 3 candidates instead of 1). As soon as you start introducing reserved seats, then you are opening the door for the system to be more efficiently gamed, and who do you think will be most effective at doing that? What do you suggest CCP if the "Hi sec mission CSM Rep" reveals that "hahah I am a goon alt trololol" immediately after he gets elected? Do you think it is a good idea for CCP to disqualify CSMs merely based on which alliance they belong to? Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4602
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 06:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
DeadNite wrote:Perhaps adding a specific purpose to each of the positions would go a long way to making the current system work for us better. Ultimately voting, by nature, is a majority rule system so there is really no reason to not keep the actual voting mechanic the somewhat the same.
CCP could specify each slot in the counsel for a specific gameplay archetype (examples include: Null Sec, Low Sec, High Sec, Wormholes, PvE, PvP, Industry, Role Play, etc) they are looking to have represented. You can ideally have as many CSM members as you would need and could also combine similar or related gameplay archetypes into a single candidacy slot (e.g.; Low Sec, Piracy, and Factional Warfare) to keep the overall slot numbers down. Each voter will vote for each candidacy slot based on who they think will fit best. Ideally this would also funnel CSM feedback and ideas to the proper channels post election.
Example guidelines for candidacy - Candidates can only run for a single counsel slot. - Only X amount of members from the same Alliance/Corporation can be on the ballad in any given slot. - Only X amount of members from the same Alliance/Corporation can be on the counsel in any given slot. - Each candidacy slot ballad will only have a maximum of X candidates. - Candidates must prove that their knowledge, experience, and presence will add value to the counsel. (Example: Candidates must create some sort of work that could be approved by the current counsel, CCP, or a third party.) - Only the top X number of players voted in go to Iceland and the rest attend via remote conference.
With this you could have an alternate for each position based on votes. In a case where the alternate would breach any of the candidacy guidelines above (specifically but not limited to the one regarding "Only X amount of members from the same Alliance/Corporation can be on the given counsel in any given slot" and any others that are ironed out after the system is iterated on) you would move to the next person as an alternate.
This would alleviate the potential for a single bloc to "Own" the entire counsel but still give them a well deserved presence on it as most large entities have what can be considered "SMEs" in most gameplay archetypes available in EVE Online (Like it or not, the truth is that these large entities form the core of most of the emergent gameplay seen in Eve Online as well as the core of what makes Eve Online, Eve Online). This allows for the elected to represent an area that is transparent to those he is representing and also provides a focal point to the person elected.
Granted this is a very basic and raw example of what could become solid building blocks making an already great CSM system better. I purposely left it as basic and vague as possible because itGÇÖs honestly not worth anyone putting a ton of capital in until the system is selected by someone who knows what they are doing to iterate on.
How would you stop "goons" from owning every seat? Does everyone get to vote for every seat? Are you proposing that there should be restrictions on who can vote for specific seats? Will I need 5M SP in Industry to vote for the Industrial CSM? Do CCP have to vet every vote to make sure it's not actually a "powerbloc" member? Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4606
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Posted - 2012.09.13 12:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
DeadNite wrote:Malcanis wrote: How would you stop "goons" from owning every seat? Does everyone get to vote for every seat? Are you proposing that there should be restrictions on who can vote for specific seats? Will I need 5M SP in Industry to vote for the Industrial CSM? Do CCP have to vet every vote to make sure it's not actually a "powerbloc" member?
- How do you know that most of the CSM does't belong to the same bloc to begin with? - CCP. the CSM, or a third party can help with screening the candidates not the voters. The consequences of candidates screwing with the CSM can be pretty severe. - Answered previously, but yes...everyone gets to vote for every slot. - Restrictions aren't placed on the voters. Restrictions are placed on the candidates.
How do you screen a character who's in a 1-man corp and paid for with PLEX?
If everyone gets to vote for every slot, then surely the big organised voting bloc will easily win every slot with its candidate of choice. Don't forget that every alliance has at least dozens of players who maintain empire alts with (deliberately) no obvious connection to their "REAL" alliance.
All you're doing is replacing the one "14th past the post" election, which any bloc will struggle to get more than 1 place in and certainly can't get all of them, with 14 "First past the post" which will be trivially easy for the CFC to win every one. Do you seriously think that the CFC don't have some highly skilled industrialists, incursioners, missioners, etc etc within their out-of-alliance ranks?
I mean if that's what you want, fine, but you should maybe consider the consequences. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4606
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 12:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
DeadNite wrote:Malcanis wrote: How would you stop "goons" from owning every seat? Does everyone get to vote for every seat? Are you proposing that there should be restrictions on who can vote for specific seats? Will I need 5M SP in Industry to vote for the Industrial CSM? Do CCP have to vet every vote to make sure it's not actually a "powerbloc" member?
- How do you know that most of the CSM does't belong to the same bloc to begin with?
Well you tell me, mate. Which bloc are "most" of the CSM in?
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4656
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 07:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kryss Darkdust wrote:Quote:I want to achieve a fairer representation on the CSM What system could possibly be more fair than "the people with the most votes win the election"? I really don't understand the issue here, are we really going to "re-invent" the election process so that it artificially represents some sort of "demographic" of players? If that's the case why even have an election at all? Why doesn't CCP simply pick who CSM members from various demographics and get it done with? If your going to have an election, have an election. If your going to manipulate it via strange mathematical formulas to get some sort of desired result, than skip the bloody thing, and just create the result you want.
Exactly. The only real problem with the current system is that it's producing results that some people don't like. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4755
|
Posted - 2012.10.02 10:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote: Realistically all it takes is The Mittani posting to the Goons telling them to vote for 14 candidates and you know that the Goons will all vote for those 14 candidates. Do you really want a system that promotes this?
This would realistically result in goons electing zero candidates. Taking the 10,000 votes mittens got as a start, and making the very unsupported assumption that every single one of those voters would follow his voting instructions, that would result in each candidate getting 715 votes.
IIRC, the threshold to get on the CSM is double that, and ~3000 to get into the top 7. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4800
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 14:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
Let's not complicate his world with even more facts. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4869
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 18:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:Reticle wrote:Lord Zim wrote:And iirc half of those 10k votes were from hisec (or at least non-goons). vOv There's no way for you to tell who they were from, i.e. whether they were free 51-day Buddy accounts with a character still sitting in its starter corp in high sec. Any system in which a neverending flow of votes from alts wins the election regardless of how many actual humans are voting is a deeply flawed and utterly pointless system. Thus my support of the idea that game fixes be divorced from the foolishness of space politics. Let the CSM do whatever they want, elect them in whatever shoddy manner you wish, just don't make the rest of us have to rely on ANY of them for an improved game. Funnily enough CCP improve the game regardless of whether the CSM exists or not..
Yes and we definitely saw how well this worked during CCP's "too cool for school" period when they tried to blank the CSM and we got Dominion, Incursions, Tyranis and Incarna.
Then CCP started listening and we got Crucible.
So I'm going to go with: the CSM is valuable.
MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5486
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 11:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
Maelle LuzArdiden wrote:Future candidates should have a posting history on these official forums. This way we avoid totally inactive, non-community representatives from power blocks getting elected.
Yes, ~GD~ is what it is etc, but these forums are the formal means of being in touch with the player base, which in the end is what the CSM is all about.
Some current CSM members have shown excellent participation in discussions after getting elected, while those who didn't do it before, haven't done it after either.
I approve of this qualification!
MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5487
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 12:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
My mandate  MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
7271
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 14:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:I would like a system where i could have 2 votes: - one for the player i want to ellect to the CSM. - one for the player i don't want to ellect to the CSM (like a downvote)
There are 14 CSM seats. Focus your energies on seeing that the 1 guy you're interested in gets the 1% of possible votes required in order to be elected, and stop worrying about other people with different views being represented as well. Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
7729
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 10:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:rodyas wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:rodyas wrote:I do understand they could wreck the elections ... Who said anything about wrecking the election? Ah I reread your blog and I think I see what you mean. You went with the, they do care about the game route, so they don't totally have fun with the system. Just try to get one that represents them, plus maybe a few others that make it seem, they know what is best. And its not really a joke CSM. I rewrote the second to last paragraph, so perhaps it is clearer now. "Now I'm not suggesting that Goonswarm is going to stack the council with a tonne of null candidates, they can't really do that, the system is not that gameable. They're smarter than that, anyhow. They'll look at who is running and decide who they want to serve with. If they don't want Mike Azariah on the council, then Mike Azariah will not be on the council. Mynnna will be ranked first, obviously. Then I would imagine Ripard Teg, Marc Scaurus, Malcanis, Unforgiven Storm, whichever wormhole candidate they prefer, and maybe even James 315, will all be on the ranked voting list that Goons will supply to their members."
That sounds like a pretty good CSM list!  Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |
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