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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
1228
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Posted - 2012.09.11 12:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello all you wonderful post-ladies and post-gentlemen out there! Got another batch of ships for your perusal. This is the first set of the tech one cruisers that we're rebalancing for the Winter. CCP Ytterbium released his newest dev blog today going over the general overviews of what we're up to with ship balancing, and this forum is the place to be for the details and discussion.
These are the Support Cruisers, tech one remote repair ships designed to operate alongside or instead of the famous T2 Logistics ships.
Our goal with these ships is to continue what we're starting with the Logi Frigates and provide a complete path for new players all the way into T2 Logistics ships. With the skill requirements relaxed for barges and the ORE mining frigate coming in the winter, there's no more need for racial ships with mining bonuses. These ships are distinctly weaker than their T2 versions, but they are designed to be capable in the ways that really count for participation in a mixed T1/T2 fleet.
If we've done our job right then when a newer player shows up to your Armour Hac fleet saying "I've got an Augoror how can I help?" the FC will respond with "xxxxx is our logistics channel, the guys in there will get you set up with the cap chain and anchor", rather than "LOLN00B come back with a real ship".
Towards this goal these ships are very close to their T2 counterparts in range, speed/agility, cap chain ability, and cap stability. They should be able to hang out with the rest of your Logi crew and do their thing at reduced effectiveness.
They also rely more strongly on role bonuses than skill bonuses so that they will continue to be viable even without Cruiser 5.
The downside for their cheapness and low skill requirements will mainly be rep amount (at most 2/3 of a T2 Logi), sig radius, sensor strength and ehp/resists.
Just like the Logi frigate balance pass we're hitting the modules at the same time, reducing some fitting requirements on medium remote reps significantly:
MetatypeNamepowercpu
0Medium Remote Armor Repair System I12020
1Medium I-ax Regenerative Projector12019
2Medium Coaxial Regenerative Projector12018
3Medium 'Arup' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction12017
4Medium 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction12016
5Medium Remote Armor Repair System II13224
7Love' Medium Remote Armor Repair system I10516
11Centum C-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System18124
11Corelum C-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System13224
12Centum B-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System18724
12Corelum B-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System13224
13Centum A-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System19224
13Corelum A-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System13224
0Medium Shield Transporter I4070
1Medium Asymmetric Barrier Transpositioner I4066
2Medium Murky Shield Screen Transmitter I4063
3Medium 'Atonement' Ward Projector4056
4Medium S95A Partial Shield Transporter4060
5Medium Shield Transporter II5084
11Gistum C-Type Medium Shield Transporter5084
11Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Transporter50108
12Gistum B-Type Medium Shield Transporter5084
12Pithum B-Type Medium Shield Transporter50111
13Gistum A-Type Medium Shield Transporter5084
13Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Transporter50115
Now shipstats:
Augoror:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
15% bonus to Remote Armor Repair amount
5% reduction in Remote Armor Repair cap use
Role Bonus:
1000% bonus to the range of Remote Armor Repairers and Energy Transfers
200% bonus to Energy Transfer Array transfer amount
Slot layout: 5 H (+1), 3 M (+1), 5 L, 3 turrets
Fittings: 650 PWG (+175), 275 CPU (+50)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1000(+140) / 1650(+321) / 1550(+221)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1500(+562.5) / 300s(-35s) / 5 (+2.2015)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 210(+57) / 0.68(+0.055) / 10730000 / 6.8s (+0.5)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 20(+15) / 20(+15)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 62.5km(+20) / 385(+57) / 8(+3)
Sensor strength: 14 Radar (+3)
Signature radius: 90 (-20)
Cargo capacity: 465
Osprey:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
15% bonus to Shield Transporter boost amount
5% reduction in Shield Transporter cap use
Role Bonus:
1000% bonus to the range of Shield Transporters and Energy Transfers
200% bonus to Energy Transfer Array transfer amount
Slot layout: 5 H (+1), 5 M (+1), 3 L, 1 turret (-2), 2 launchers
Fittings: 425 PWG (-50), 440 CPU (+165)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1650(+477) / 1000(+24) / 1450(+356)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1375(+531.25) / 275s(-26.25s) / 5 (+2.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 200(+47) / 0.59(+0.085) / 11230000 / 6.2s (+0.9)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 20 / 20
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km(+12.5) / 350(+39) / 8(+3)
Sensor strength: 16 Gravimetric (+2)
Signature radius: 95 (-30)
Cargo capacity: 485
Exequror:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
15% bonus to Remote Armor Repair amount
5% reduction in Remote Armor Repair cap use
Role Bonus:
1000% bonus to the range of Remote Armor Repairers
100% bonus to Logistic Drone (both armor and shield) rep amount
Slot layout: 3 H (-1), 4 M, 6 L (+3), 3 turrets (-1)
Fittings: 610 PWG (+110), 275 CPU (+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1000(+101) / 1400(+227) / 1600(+506)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1375(+375) / 264s(-92.25s) / 5.2 (+2.4)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240(+81) / 0.61 / 11020000 / 6.3s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(+10) / 50(+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km(+7.5) / 365(+43) / 8(+3)
Sensor strength: 15 Magnetometric (+2)
Signature radius: 80 (-40)
Cargo capacity: 495 (-105)
Scythe:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
15% bonus to Shield Transporter boost amount
5% reduction in Shield Transporter cap use
Role Bonus:
1000% bonus to the range of Shield Transporters
100% bonus to Logistic Drone (both armor and shield) rep amount
Slot layout: 3 H (-2), 5 M (+2), 5 L (+2), 2 turrets (-1), 1 launcher (-1)
Fittings: 330 PWG (-95), 415 CPU (+190)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1400(+424) / 1100(+1...
Game Designer | Team Game of Drones
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
1242
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Posted - 2012.09.11 13:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
The drones are definitely something more useful for PVE and repping i between fights. We very well could replace the drone bonus with a tracking link bonus, but we'll see.
Game Designer | Team Game of Drones
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
1254
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Posted - 2012.09.11 14:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
Making sure ships aren't too overpowered is always something we have to keep in mind. Sometimes ships get bonuses that are less powerful than other bonuses could have been, and that's intentional.
That's not to say that the bonus can't be changed, but I want to make it clear that we didn't give them the rep drone bonus thinking "This will be the best bonus we could ever give these ships". It was a "This is a bonus that is useful in certain circumstances, provides a clear link to the T2 version and doesn't make these powerful ships too good".
Game Designer | Team Game of Drones
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
1278
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Posted - 2012.09.11 17:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Rayner Vanguard wrote:
I'm not sure if relying on drones to repair is a nice idea
While, they may have their use in pve, it might be not efficient for pvp
Logi will usually be primary target, which is why they have to bounce a lot to a nearby planets to avoid targeting
The other can simply bounce and back, lock the fleetmates and start repairing again
But, the drone logi? They have to get all the drones first, bounce and back, get all of your drones, targeting, wait for the drones to arrive at their target, start repairing
The logi will have the risk of being destroyed while taking the drones
What if they just bounce off and leave the drones? The enemies can simply destroy the drones and they will do that many times until the logi doesn't have anything beside the 3 remote repair in the high slot
Do not worry, these ship don't rely on drones to repair any more than current Scimitars and Oneiros' do.
Game Designer | Team Game of Drones
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
1305
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Posted - 2012.09.12 12:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Like all changes posted in this forum, everything here has more tweaking to do. We're going to continue looking at all the support cruisers between now and release, to make sure they strike the proper balance of being good enough to use without eclipsing the T2 Logis.
If we balance them down, expect it to be in areas such as fittings, resilience, sig radius and rep power rather than in rep range, speed or cap stability (which we consider to be the minimum requirements to operate in a mixed fleet alongside logistics ships).
Also please refrain from name calling in my balance threads.
Game Designer | Team Game of Drones
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
1306
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Posted - 2012.09.12 14:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
FYI I have absolutely no intention to buff T2 logistics at any point. They're really amazingly powerful as they are and do not need any buffs.
Current T2 logistics are well balanced for some aspects of the game (most obviously fleet warfare) and are probably too powerful for others (Mr. Revedhort's preferred solo play for instance). Improving solo options without either killing fun aspects of group play or making solo too easymode is definitely a goal of ours, but the solution there isn't to keep the learning cliff facing support pilots.
The biggest reason that I believe these Support Cruisers will not significantly compound the problems Logistics cause for soloers is that T1 cruisers are far far easier to kill. It's the great difficulty killing a T2 Logi combined with their repping power that really causes the most issues and if these Support Cruisers prove too powerful, survivability is one of the first areas in which I'll nerf them.
Game Designer | Team Game of Drones
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
1310
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Posted - 2012.09.12 15:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:So what do you think about a bonus for projected ECCM?
Instead of the drone bonus?
Definitely something to consider.
Harvey James wrote:
But don't these new T1 logi have more slots than the T2 logi?
if the T2 logi is too good rebalance them
even destroyers have more slots than T2 logi whats up with that?
T2 Logi, T1 Support cruisers and Destroyers all have 13 slots.
Zor'katar wrote:Has any thought been given to turning any of the revamped cruisers into explorers (scanning bonus along with utility highs and mids), or is that generally considered to be the domain of frigates (and T3)?
I think that would ideally be a role for a new ship someday rather than for one of these ships.
Game Designer | Team Game of Drones
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
1921
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Posted - 2012.10.18 16:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
Part of the reason we've been announcing these ships so early is so that we can implement changes based on feedback we receive before release. Thanks to everyone who is putting work into breaking all of these ships and sharing their feedback.
We've been seeing feedback for a while that we need to tighten up the fittings on some of the Support Cruisers and that blog illustrated one of the many examples of why. 
The basic design still appears sound, but don't expect the exact fitting numbers to stay the same between now and release.
Game Designer | Team Game of Drones
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
2030
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Posted - 2012.10.24 19:46:00 -
[9] - Quote
Some new adjustments to help manage the option of using large reps:
Lowering the CPU of all medium shield transporters by another 10% compared to the earlier proposal:
MetatypeNamepowercpu
0Medium Shield Transporter I4063
1Medium Asymmetric Barrier Transpositioner I4059
2Medium Murky Shield Screen Transmitter I4057
3Medium 'Atonement' Ward Projector4050
4Medium S95A Partial Shield Transporter4054
5Medium Shield Transporter II5076
11Gistum C-Type Medium Shield Transporter5076
11Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Transporter5097
12Gistum B-Type Medium Shield Transporter5076
12Pithum B-Type Medium Shield Transporter50100
13Gistum A-Type Medium Shield Transporter5076
13Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Transporter50104
Osprey: -30 cpu
Scythe: -20 pg, -100 cpu
OP has been updated.
As always thanks to everyone here for providing such great feedback for us.
These and all the other Cruiser, Destroyer and Missile changes are going to be on the Duality public test server this weekend! Come check them out and let us know what you think after flying them for realsies.
Game Designer | Team Game of Drones
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
2139
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Posted - 2012.11.05 20:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
To help provide some more distinction between the Support Cruisers and Logistics Cruisers we're dropping the rep amount bonus on the hulls slightly to 12.5% per level.
These changes are not in the latest Duality build yet but they'll be in the next public build after that.
Game Designer | Team Game of Drones
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
2141
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Posted - 2012.11.05 21:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
Maximus Andendare wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:To help provide some more distinction between the Support Cruisers and Logistics Cruisers we're dropping the rep amount bonus on the hulls slightly to 12.5% per level.
These changes are not in the latest Duality build yet but they'll be in the next public build after that. I thought the primary difference was that Logistics ships could use large reps vs the Support cruisers using only mediums?
Support cruisers can only comfortably use mediums, but creative use of larges is fine as long as there's a tradeoff involved.
Game Designer | Team Game of Drones
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
1351
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Posted - 2012.12.04 10:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
Unsticking, let's make some space for future threads. |
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