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Taking Game Server down for DDos attack.

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Daxine Myth	Posted - 2011.06.15 05:29:00 - [1] Taking the game Server down for DDos attack is stupid and there is no point in putting it back up if your just going to take it down every time it happens. It's about time CCP took game security more seriously by implementing security features into the client at the users end to distinguish between genuine requests and malicious requests. They should also put bot and script detection software amongst the EVE client to actively prevent and detect bots, Eve is becoming a game where rules do not matter anymore and people are becoming sick of CCP's soft touch against deliberate rule breaking.
Apollo Gabriel Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2011.06.15 05:31:00 - [2] Truely you have a dizzying intellect. *** Signature may appear without warning! *** Please do not feed the trolls, it builds dependency.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.06.15 05:32:00 - [3] No. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Daxine Myth	Posted - 2011.06.15 05:32:00 - [4] Edited by: Daxine Myth on 15/06/2011 05:33:15 Edited by: Daxine Myth on 15/06/2011 05:32:49 Well the CCP mentality seems to be why rebuild or implement when its just going to get exploited again? Might as well let botters bot both in game and against their servers.
Tamara Striker	Posted - 2011.06.15 05:33:00 - [5] I agree with the OP. Apollo what is that in with your corn flakes?
Oldest Sister Shaishi	Posted - 2011.06.15 05:35:00 - [6] Database was discovered and modified, better check any POS, assets and any of this thinks. My POS fresh fueled (few days ago for 21 days) with assets for many bilions was turned off and fuel was taked out. I think database was wiped or somethink like that. CCP, do somethink with this
Tamara Striker	Posted - 2011.06.15 05:36:00 - [7] If that is true about the database - hopefully a roll back happens.
Daxine Myth	Posted - 2011.06.15 05:37:00 - [8] Originally by: Oldest Sister Shaishi Database was discovered and modified, better check any POS, assets and any of this thinks. My POS fresh fueled (few days ago for 21 days) with assets for many bilions was turned off and fuel was taked out. I think database was wiped or somethink like that. CCP, do somethink with this Roll back no good as that could also have been hacked. I vote for fresh restart, Day 1 week 1. :)
Oldest Sister Shaishi	Posted - 2011.06.15 05:38:00 - [9] Sorry but if i lose somethink from POS, i will be very angry However, i destroy my CH where i was backup fuel and it dropeed.... NOTHING! Like my CH was empty! I don't know wtf but this DDOS attack do more **** then any other f....up in patching or else.
Tamara Striker	Posted - 2011.06.15 05:39:00 - [10] Edited by: Tamara Striker on 15/06/2011 05:42:08 Going to be an interesting day tomorrow - popcorn and the forums
Riyal Chode Extravaganza	Posted - 2011.06.15 05:53:00 - [11] Yeh!! ccp should be totally policing the internets!!!!!!! They should go around to all the houses with a bot installed and clean they're computers even though these peole don't play eve !! They should be able to tell if each and every server requet is legitimate !!! I pay my subs for ccp to be the internets supermens DO IT NOW CCP!!!
Tamara Striker	Posted - 2011.06.15 06:00:00 - [12] Originally by: Riyal Yeh!! ccp should be totally policing the internets!!!!!!! They should go around to all the houses with a bot installed and clean they're computers even though these peole don't play eve !! They should be able to tell if each and every server requet is legitimate !!! I pay my subs for ccp to be the internets supermens DO IT NOW CCP!!! hmm bot users only live in houses?
J Random Tax Protestants Epsilon Shimmy Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.15 06:02:00 - [13] I hate stupid people like the OP. There is nothing you, or anybody, can do to prevent a DDoS other than find the source. This is a HARD problem and well understood in Tier one network engineering. You can filter all day but so what, you just fill up the pipes with spoofed legit traffic. The real problem I have here is a reduction in service (lets say 75%) is still less a DDoS than 100% reduction by taking the servers offline. I.e. they are winning if your offline. Also a DDoS isn't a security issue so really NO REASON PERIOD to take your servers down or whine about "no PII was released or hacks" .. no **** real because DDoS isn't a security problem so why would it have been? De Oppresso Liber
Orlacc	Posted - 2011.06.15 06:04:00 - [14] Edited by: Orlacc on 15/06/2011 06:06:32 To all scrubs: The FIRST thing you do when you are hit with a denial of service attack is go offline. Maybe not 100%, but that sure doesn't hurt. A Ddos can be a precursor to introduction of code. Much like what happened to Sony and Citi.
Sedilis Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire	Posted - 2011.06.15 06:05:00 - [15] You're an idiot OP move along now
Francis Strange	Posted - 2011.06.15 06:08:00 - [16] Edited by: Francis Strange on 15/06/2011 06:14:40 A DDoS attack is very tough to overcome. The first thing to do is to contact your hosting provider or internet service provider, depending on what is under attack. They will usually be able to filter out the bulk of the traffic based on where itÆs coming from. So the OP's comment about client side security is valid.
J Random Tax Protestants Epsilon Shimmy Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.15 06:13:00 - [17] Edited by: J Random on 15/06/2011 06:16:57 Remind me to never hire you or do business with whatever company you work at Orlacc. Once again, DDoS is a core network engineering problem (i.e. transit), not a security problem. The pipe filling up doesn't affect diddly from a security perspective. Outside the availability attack it doesn't touch the layer 7 firewalls, it does touch the normalized IPS's, it doesn't touch the multifactor external authentication, it doesn't magically bypass the reverse proxies or rollback patches, it doesn't magically misconfigure your devices, nor, for that matter, it does magically create SQL injection attacks. If I am going to be clever I might spearphish or use some 1337 zero day but guess what, I'm not DDoS in that case. God I hate kids who think they are security engineers because they can run metasploit and spell the word security. And no you don't take your network down ever in the face of a DDoS unless it will cause irreversible replication issues, i.e. lets says in the middle of no-checksum EDI transfer though I can't imagine who would ever do some crap like that and if they were, do it in-band. You ignore DDoS's, hope your ISP (and his tier 2 / 1) can traceback them, hope your SLA has a DDoS burst clause in it, hope the traffic is standardized, and nullroute / filter them as far upstream as possible. De Oppresso Liber
Ruri Mizushisi	Posted - 2011.06.15 06:55:00 - [18] Edited by: Ruri Mizushisi on 15/06/2011 06:55:02 In similar vein, J Random, I wouldn't want to do anything that relied on any network over which you had authority - although since you patently don't know what you're talking about, I assume that's unlikely. A DDoS attack isn't, in and of itself, a security risk, no... assuming it's not masking something that is. When you're drowning in junk traffic, do you trust your network to filter out all the attempts to inject malicious code or brute force some passwords? Do you have absolute faith that there is no possibility that your software (or firmware) has a previously undiscovered bug from some corner case that hadn't been predicted that will tear a hole in your security? Because if you do, you're an idiot, and if you don't, you're going to hard-cut access for security's sake.
Hefill	Posted - 2011.06.15 07:26:00 - [19] Originally by: J Random Edited by: J Random on 15/06/2011 06:22:37 Edited by: J Random on 15/06/2011 06:16:57 Remind me to never hire you or do business with whatever company you work at Orlacc. Once again, DDoS is a core network engineering problem (i.e. transit), not a security problem. The pipe filling up doesn't affect diddly from a security perspective. Outside the availability attack it doesn't touch the layer 7 firewalls, it does touch the normalized IPS's, it doesn't touch the multifactor external authentication, it doesn't magically bypass the reverse proxies or rollback patches, it doesn't magically misconfigure your devices, nor, for that matter, it does magically create SQL injection attacks. If I am going to be clever I might spearphish or use some 1337 zero day but guess what, I'm not DDoS in that case. God I hate kids who think they are security engineers because they can run metasploit and spell the word security. And no you don't take your network down ever in the face of a DDoS unless it will cause irreversible replication issues, i.e. lets says in the middle of no-checksum EDI transfer though I can't imagine who would ever do some crap like that and if they were, do it in-band. You ignore DDoS's, hope your ISP (and his tier 2 / 1) can traceback them, hope your SLA has a DDoS burst clause in it, hope the traffic is standardized, and nullroute / filter them as far upstream as possible. Francis: With a DoS yes, not with a DDoS unless they are using standardized packets (i.e. so you can filter on layer 4+ instead of layer 3). We have all seen Akamai of all things globally taken down by a DDoS, source layer 3 filtering won't cut it. Also depending how clever they are (and I'm doubting they are), you just inject false routes to the ISP's. BGP route injection may be hard at tier 1's, but tier 2 and tier 3 staffs are usually incompetent and susceptible to attacks such as this. As you said DDoS is a hard problem but calling your tier 3 other than "call your tier 2 and 1 providers" ain't going to help. The problem wasnt the DDOS. the problem was if another group noticed the DDOS and decided to use it to their advantage and cause 'actual' damage. it's kind of like AIDS, gives your body a distraction so real diseases can take advantage of the weakened immune system. I for one support eve taking down their servers 100 %
J Random Tax Protestants Epsilon Shimmy Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.15 07:34:00 - [20] Of course not Ruri but I worry about those things even without a DDoS. I just don't worry about network engineering problems, that's for the network engineers to deal with. And yes I do expect my half million dollar multi-layer security stack to not fail open or fail badly. A DDoS will well saturate my pipe long before my dedicated hardware checkpoints fw1's fail or the edge Juniper M7i's. If your security solution is failing under slow onslaught of a WAN DDoS, you need to go buy yourself some real equipment. I.e. a netgear all-in-wonder box isn't a security stack or appliance. De Oppresso Liber
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.15 07:43:00 - [21] Originally by: J Random And yes I do expect my half million dollar multi-layer security stack to not fail open or fail badly. Beliefs like this may easily bite back. I am quite sure the vast majority of those who get hacked also have faith in a piece of electronics. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Galvatine Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.15 07:45:00 - [22] OP If you can so cleverly solve a DDOS attack with these methods I'm sure you can find someone who will pay you a great deal of money to do so. As some have noted, this is HARD to counter an no amount of authentication tweaks are going to make it go away. The only way I can think of getting round this is a reactive spam based system upstream of the vendor (in this case ccp). The problem with that is that its likely to generate false positives and it requires that ISPs (and others) work with each other...not very likely to happen. Oh wait, the other method is to remove the drones from the problem space, not likely either.
Internet Knight The Kobayashi Maru	Posted - 2011.06.15 07:46:00 - [23] Originally by: J Random onslaught of a WAN DDoS, you need to go buy yourself some real equipment Dragons would solve that issue quick! ---
Goddess Ishtar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.06.15 08:00:00 - [24] Originally by: Daxine Myth Taking the game Server down for DDos attack is stupid and there is no point in putting it back up if your just going to take it down every time it happens. It's about time CCP took game security more seriously by implementing security features into the client at the users end to distinguish between genuine requests and malicious requests. They should also put bot and script detection software amongst the EVE client to actively prevent and detect bots, Eve is becoming a game where rules do not matter anymore and people are becoming sick of CCP's soft touch against deliberate rule breaking. You, sir, are a bad poster who makes bad posts.
Dr Jan Itor	Posted - 2011.06.15 08:05:00 - [25] Edited by: Dr Jan Itor on 15/06/2011 08:06:05 I much rather CCP take security precautions over the "Oh well, let's cross out fingers and hope for the best" approach to network security (aka: Sony's network security configuration). I believe I will endure a couple of hours of downtime while these ****kids have their fun with DDOSing random servers.
Lin-Young Borovskova	Posted - 2011.06.15 08:23:00 - [26] Originally by: Daxine Myth Taking the game Server down for DDos attack is stupid and there is no point in putting it back up if your just going to take it down every time it happens. It's about time CCP took game security more seriously by implementing security features into the client at the users end to distinguish between genuine requests and malicious requests. They should also put bot and script detection software amongst the EVE client to actively prevent and detect bots, Eve is becoming a game where rules do not matter anymore and people are becoming sick of CCP's soft touch against deliberate rule breaking. is this the comment from some frustrated hacker? Frustration is not good, eat apples love the rabit find a girlfrind, it's a lot better than hacking masturb "Cancer killed thousands and keeps killing hundreds.Aids killed thousands and keeps killing hundreds. And human economics kill how many every day?"
Zen Sarum	Posted - 2011.06.15 08:25:00 - [27] Taking the servers/website (in fact everything down) was absolutely the right thing to do in this case. If only Sony had been so on the ball. Security of players details are of the highest priority. Denial of service attacks (DDos is hacking? lol a bunch of 12 year old could do it with scripts, which is they claim why they have done it) it is however kinda pointless against a game other then for publicity. Especially a game with loyal long term subscribers like EVE. It was done apparently for a 'lolz' we however look forward to yet more of this group of basement dwellers getting locked up like their predecessors (especially after hacking the FBI .. which lets face it is the [facepalm]stupidest thing you can do). I hope that if a real attack comes from anyone with actual skill that CCP will take the steps to prepare for it. HTFU!
trtetds Plaude	Posted - 2011.06.15 08:28:00 - [28] Edited by: trtetds Plaude on 15/06/2011 08:28:36 Do you know for a fact that it was taken down due to a Ddos attack the second time? (I mean the one in the middle of the night, not yesterday when the Ddos attack happened) Lulz didn't release any statement about that, and they normally let people know when they do stuff like that. It could have been just a normal server issue completely unrelated to the Ddos attacks.
Miilla Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage	Posted - 2011.06.15 08:29:00 - [29] Edited by: Miilla on 15/06/2011 08:35:08 DDOS attacks are usually used to cover an initial breach Remember those warm fuzzy statements that our data is safe from Sony and RSA? Months later, the real news came out. Prior examples of CCP database hacks. http://www.warcry.com/news/view/78140-EVE-Online-database-hacked-CCP-issues-statement Epic was also hacked too http://www.gamefreaks.co.nz/2011/06/14/hacked-epic-games-website-breached/ Again DDOS used to cover the breach of emails and passwords there. Lulsec never leave EMPTY HANDED.
Tommy Taylor	Posted - 2011.06.15 08:32:00 - [30] Originally by: Daxine Myth Taking the game Server down for DDos attack is stupid and there is no point in putting it back up if your just going to take it down every time it happens. It's about time CCP took game security more seriously by implementing security features into the client at the users end to distinguish between genuine requests and malicious requests. They should also put bot and script detection software amongst the EVE client to actively prevent and detect bots, Eve is becoming a game where rules do not matter anymore and people are becoming sick of CCP's soft touch against deliberate rule breaking. the servers must check the requests too, no matter if they malicious or not, and so you can ddos the servers too, your statement is senseless, you don't know anything about servers.

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DDOS attacks are usually used to cover an initial breach