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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Glafri
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Posted - 2011.06.16 09:37:00 -
[751]
CCP,
Fire the idiot in charge of rescuing your dwindling subscription numbers while you still have a game!
Love
Glaf
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Shonion
FREE GATES HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2011.06.16 09:38:00 -
[752]
Seriously, who the hell interested in walking in station, dust and **** like that. This is an INTERNET SPACESHIP game with a good amount of other good thinks as spy, economic, build, manufacture, logistic, marketwarrior, etc not a freaken SPACESIMS.
If i would want to play FPS games, i go and play CS or anything else. If i want to clothes up a char i play SIMS. Seriously.
All player wrote applications is for only to improove that game. Some are free, some are accept donations. They spent a lot of time to improove the gameplay, and do the job, what you forgot to do.
Go and debug the game, or reballance t2 manufacturing, etc, would make better reputation. [url=http://freegates.podzone.net/kb/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=39036] [/url] |
Maya Hyde
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Posted - 2011.06.16 09:47:00 -
[753]
The EVE community has always been supporting the game with their creations ranging from software to video productions. Such things serve to spread the word about the game.
This change you are now showing to us will only serve to kill productivity. Most people have to pay for hosting their applications and this change would only screw those people over. Some if not most of those people that make EVE-related applications have no intention of making profit out of their software and are paying for their hosting so that others can use it for free. Thus voluntary donations are the natural thing to ask.
With this change, would you be satisfied if CCP was "advertised" with the following message: "Now accepting donations to cover CCP's licensing fees and hosting"?
What next, charging licensing for making a PVP video? Come on you must see that this only serves to hurt the very playerbase that plays your game.
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Epolitus
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.16 09:48:00 -
[754]
Sry but srsly this is the badest idea CCCP ever had. Please delete dev blogs and forget that u have ever offered this to the community. this will ruin severel fan projects wich came up the last few years. tbh u force people to RMT so they can upkeep their service just to pay you.
Conclusion: Badest idea evar!
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Wotlankor
Black Aces Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2011.06.16 09:50:00 -
[755]
Quote: Why charge for the license at all? The licensing fee is there to partially cover expenses from this initiative and more importantly, we need to charge a fee so that we get proper non-spoofable information about the applicant. We have kept the fee as low as possible and hope that the $99 fee is low enough to not dissuade serious developers from participating in the program.
- You already have lots of credit card information. Make the API licence avaliable for all credit card paying subsribers. This will make it cheaper and ensure your data integrity/non-spoof or whatever excuse you are making up.
- If you pay pr game codes like I do, a licence you pay for makes sence in some respect (though I think the impact will kill a lot of smaller and good intiatives) but the cost of making the creditcard payments is a lot smaller than your current sheme and achives the same.
Quote: 3) This project is not about CCP making money. Whether we charge $100 or $50 or $10 for a commercial license won't make a big difference to our balance sheet. $99 is the lowest that we estimated that we could reasonably go and still justify the cost of the service. If this is too high for app developers, this is something that could possibly be revisited.
- Then dont charge. It works fine currently. Ofc you do it to claim ownership and control. This will elad to Mr. Apple-I-want-my-own-eco-system. Stop deluding yourself or misguiding us whatever the case is. Alternatively use above solution of making API avaliable to creditcard paying customers. Please resize your signature to no more than 120 x 400 pixels and 24,000 bytes (not KBytes) - Adida |
Max Wilson
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Posted - 2011.06.16 09:52:00 -
[756]
Originally by: Kronus Heilgar
You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats
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Amaise
Raven Lords
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Posted - 2011.06.16 09:56:00 -
[757]
CCP way off the mark on this one. You should clarify the great news and statements made. I dont think your 'Biz' guys have ever been on Help Channel where a ton of new players are trying to learn the game using little to no resources available in-game. I often post links from the some of the sites mentioned to get them started off. This is how I and many countless others got started off. I dont think it can be truly appreciated how much some of some of these devs have helped grow your (CCP) game at little to no benefit to themselves. Perhaps the greatest asset eve has is its community. I cant think of any mmos ive played that even come close.
Using language like 'whingers' and '9 pages of hate' /insert various faces, shows how distanced and out of touch some of you guys have become. Most if not all of the players posting here would actually stand to 'profit' isk wise if alot of these great sites and apps were taken down in the not so distant future. The newbies and players starting off would not in any way. I am beyond certain your retention rates for new players trying out eve would be lowered significantly.
Its beyond me how a money grab(cha-ching) netting less than a 'Biz Guy' makes a year can be beneficial to this wonderful game. My advice is fire a couple of these geniuses and get some more devs or resources into much needed changes players have been asking for.
I cannot imagine the countless hours these guys have spent making the free apps everyone uses. The community and game would not be what it is without ya!
PS Hilmar you should be ashamed of yourself for your comments
peace
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Sethose Olderon
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Posted - 2011.06.16 09:57:00 -
[758]
Edited by: Sethose Olderon on 16/06/2011 10:06:03
CCP, you are making it increasingly difficult for me to support Eve and your company in general.
The micro-transaction fiasco has already made me quite irate, and this on top of it just adds gasoline to an already raging bonfire.
It's fine for you to create a licensing mechanism for the commercialization of the API and associated properties, however, donations are not commercialization or monetization. It is not fair for you to charge a licensing fee to a proprietor who chooses to allow donations, or offsets costs with ads, but does not require a fee or subscription for their service or product. The direct real world equivalent would be to charge non-profit or humanitarian organizations, and that's really low.
Sure, Eve is your property and you can choose to do with it what you will within national and international laws, but others don't have to support it, your company or Eve.
However, you can choose to justify charging persons who offer services or products, but do not charge fees or subscriptions for their offerings how ever you wish. At the end of the day though, it is just plain greedy, and you all know it.
I have already reached the point where I do not recommend Eve to my friends, family or associates based on your abhorrent and total lack of regard for your loyal and longstanding customers.
The most infuriating aspect of these situations is that you either SIMPLY REFUSE TO LISTEN or perhaps just DELIBERATELY IGNORE your subscriber base, and that is a recipe for an MMO disaster on the same or greater scale as Star Wars Galaxies. Alliance Owned Stargates
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John McCreedy
Caldari Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2011.06.16 09:58:00 -
[759]
Originally by: CCP Atlas So, what's going on in my feedback thre... HOLY CRAP, 9 pages of hate!
Anyway, thank you all for your input so far. Based on your comments, I feel I should step in to clarify a few things and address some concerns.
1) The blog represents the first draft...
At the risk of being the voice of reason in a hate thread, might I suggest that you arrange a round table event either through Skype/Teamspeak/Eve Voice/whatever or at the next Fanfest and sit down with third party developers and come up with an amicable way of introducing this? One that doesn't bite the hand that feeds you.
Across the galaxy there is only war. [center] Website Forums [ur |
Tuggboat
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.16 10:05:00 -
[760]
Has anybody thought of abandoning the semi-shareware model and just not accepting donations? All along I have refused to pay isk for services. Once I did for a month. Its not like these developers are isk poor, most have been in game for a long time. Just quit accepting isk and keep any dropped cargo containers or unsolicited trade windows on the down low. THe isk is just supposed to show some appreciation anyhow, its a pat on the back for a job well done.
Altruism boys, screw da man not each other. This is going to head toward copy protections and passwords for the api etc etc. They are the ones that want to monetize thier API streams. Don't let them. Their game would be unplayable without your apps, It sucks we know it. Its main attraction is the open end, without it I'd have been gone in 3 months cause CCP just keeps sucking. Remember these are fish farmers.
People remember Microsoft giving away development apps, I remember when they didn't/ I remember how they shut off all third party development and changed hobby type computing and hacking around to something you could only do if you were in the business cause the development tools were through the roof. A basic package to try to develop a windows app would have been 5 months rent.
They are talking a couple billion isk here of blow money, not exactly entry level but if you think that is entry level cash you don't mind spending dollars for isk anyhow.
Can you imagine learning to play eve without eft? How about all those modules, can you see trying to compare them and fit them through the eve interface? WIthout 3rd party, Eve is incomplete and dysfunctional. Without people Eve is nothing, they need to know their place. Servants of us, the masters of their fate.
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Assaj Ventress
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Posted - 2011.06.16 10:09:00 -
[761]
Originally by: CCP Atlas
1) The blog represents the first draft...
You should start most of your devblogs with a phrase like this, CCP. It will make for less whine in comments -----------------
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Selthae
Celestial Horizon Corp. Fallen Angels Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.16 10:10:00 -
[762]
Edited by: Selthae on 16/06/2011 10:10:54 Next time, watch this before manhandling your 3rdparty eco system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMU0tzLwhbE |
Max Wilson
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Posted - 2011.06.16 10:10:00 -
[763]
Quote: Will donations require a commercial license?
Yes, for donation supported websites you will require a commercial license.
Quote: Will services for in-game currency require a commercial license?
Yes, if you require any sort of payment for your services you will need a commercial license.
As it looks now, sites like dotlan would have to pay 99$ a year to CCP. This will likely be the end of a lot of awesome services.
What the **** are you guys even thinking? No one is gonna pay 99$ for a license to help you guys make your game better. No one.
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Arrs Grazznic
Poena Executive Solutions
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Posted - 2011.06.16 10:17:00 -
[764]
The Dev Blog promised "Great News". Unfortunately this was somewhat misleading. Surely the term "Monetizing Your Apps and Services" suggests allowing developers to charge real currency for their work and not just in-game ISK, however you go on to explicitly state that developers can not charge real money. If you want to charge people $99 a year for the option of being rewarded for their efforts, at least let them have the option to charge cash.
So, as the Dev Blog stands, what do you get for your $99? As far as I can see CCP are providing nothing more than exists today for free. There is no API documentation available for the people who cough up the fee, there is no additional CCP Dev access to assist with API issues, there isn't even on SLA against the availability of the API!
In principle, I'm all for changes in the EULA to allow 3rd party developers to charge money for their work, but this is not how to go about it. Your $99 licence fee should grant the developer the following:
- Ability to charge real currency for services
- Access to full API documentation
- Access to CCP Developer resources to assist with issues
- An SLA for the API
What happens at the moment is those 3rd party developers can ask for donations (either in ISK or via PayPal) or get click-through advertising money to support servers, development time, etc. This is working! Eve has a content-rich community built upon the current system. If you implement this proposal as it stands, I expect that pretty much all of the player created content and support will dry up pretty quickly and EVE will suffer greatly as a result. Basically, as many others have said:
Originally by: Kronus Heilgar
You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats
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Gurgeh Murat
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.16 10:17:00 -
[765]
THREADNOUGHT OF HATE OFF THE STARBOARD BOW!
Ive just read (really, i did, ive got time on my hands) 25 pages of posts which disagree with this Idea about 98%
Very little objection to people who will CHARGE r/l money for an app having to buy a licence. Capitalists pay the price for being capitalists, fair enough.
A lot of objection to people who try to mitigate hosting costs with ads requiring a 99$ licence. Theyre trying to provide a service without taking food off their table to do it.
Almost UNIVERSAL condemnation of requiring a 99$ licence for even just the opportunity to receive donations of IMAGINARY SPACESHIP MONEY as a tip "nice work, heres some ISK".
The consensus from developers seems that 99$ is going to be charged for a poorly documented API feature with limited application and zero tangible support or development tools. Without further development of the API it appears unfeasible that people can produce applications sufficiently advanced enough to warrant charging for their use.
Noone in the last 25 pages has disputed that the apps developed for free by fan's who love the game improves the gaming experience. In fact most postulate that WITHOUT these apps the game becomes unplayable once you progress from
"cool, ive got a ship i can fly"
to
"Ive got a pos to fuel, invention and manufacture to maintain, skills to plan/queue, ships to fit effectively and I really need to work out how to move our cap fleet from A to B"
There have been only a few speculations as to WHY our CCP overlords feel this change is neccessary. The use of the API for commercial gain seems to be accepted by the community as something that CCP should rightly charge for (I use the term Gain to mean profit, not cover costs). The only other hypotheses are to combat RMT sites by allowing CCP to serve takedown notices or to drive 3rd party apps out of business so CCP can step into the void and charge for said apps.
Chribba is sad
Summation over, my 2 cents to the devs.
Throw your "Bizdev" team (god just that term makes me want to vomit blood) into the disused herring vats at CCP HQ to ponder what they were thinking.
Dont try to pass off ass****ing fan developers as "good news"
Consider that if an app asks for donations, its only going to get them if theyre good. If theyre good, theyve added value to YOUR game, possibly by doing something CCP should have done years ago. Stop being scroogey bastards about the movement of IMAGINARY, ZERO VALUE SPACESHIP MONEY from one player to another as a thank you for enhancing YOUR GAME.
Realize that straight talking to your customer base is good. Explain your reasoning better rather than pumping out a corpspeak PR release worded in a way that indicates "this is gonna happen, were just going through the motions here. If you have good reasoning, clearly explained, who knows we might agree!
Understand that the day I have to manually work out my pos fuel requirements, paper and pen my skill queue or give myself cramps using a calculator to fit my ship because all the good apps have vanished is the day i say goodbye. I already pay to play, im not paying to make the game playable.
Originally by: Kronus Heilgar
You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats
This
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Lulzes
Amarr EVE University Ivy League
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Posted - 2011.06.16 10:17:00 -
[766]
Originally by: Decon Ko Edited by: Decon Ko on 15/06/2011 18:41:02
Originally by: Kronus Heilgar
You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats
It really needed the h2 tag, sorry.
Shame H3 doesn't work in quotes. "Nothing is so easy as to deceive one's self; for what we wish, we readily believe." á - Demosthenes |
jsaak
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Posted - 2011.06.16 10:19:00 -
[767]
Originally by: Kronus Heilgar
You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats
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Jack Coutu
Gallente Percussive Diplomacy The Phoenix. Consortium
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Posted - 2011.06.16 10:22:00 -
[768]
If you do this, it's honestly the last straw for me. I've put up with this garbage Incarna, DUST, WOD sidetrack, lack of expansions that are meaningful, lack of good devs. I won't stand for you ****ing the people who make this game playable by doing what your **** devs are too inept to do. Drop this idea entirely. You are going down a very bad road as of late and other games are starting to look very appealing to a lot of people.
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Stormchyld
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.16 10:24:00 -
[769]
Originally by: Tobin Shalim And how, exactly, is this "great news" for 3rd party devs? All it's going to do is force them to cough up even more money to CCP for something that, realistically, they don't NEED to pay for to begin with since they are currently free. This means that programs like EveMON, EveHQ, EveTycoon, etc will now be forced to charge its user base a monthly fee if they wish to use the program since the costs will trickle down to the end users of the programs themselves.
Bad CCP, with this and now MT that you swore you would never do, when did you become so money-hungry that you feel the need to nickel-and-dime your customers? Did some other company/investors buy you out or something? Because I cannot really explain what would have happened internally that would cause you to come to this point.
+1
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01two
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Posted - 2011.06.16 10:25:00 -
[770]
This.
Originally by: Gurgeh Murat I already pay to play, im not paying to make the game playable.
Originally by: Kronus Heilgar
You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats
This
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SystemAdministrator
Amarr Invision Hosting
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Posted - 2011.06.16 10:25:00 -
[771]
The Old Republic anyone? Looking rather good at the moment compared to the current trend of CPP decisions.
P.S. Yes I am MAD!
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Acac Sunflyier
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.16 10:26:00 -
[772]
Time to uninstall EveMon
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Max Wilson
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Posted - 2011.06.16 10:28:00 -
[773]
Originally by: Jack Coutu If you do this, it's honestly the last straw for me. I've put up with this garbage Incarna, DUST, WOD sidetrack, lack of expansions that are meaningful, lack of good devs. I won't stand for you ****ing the people who make this game playable by doing what your **** devs are too inept to do. Drop this idea entirely. You are going down a very bad road as of late and other games are starting to look very appealing to a lot of people.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.06.16 10:28:00 -
[774]
Quote: What next, charging licensing for making a PVP video?
Videos must already pay, it's not "next".
They are hosted on ads sponsored websites. All of them. This makes such CCP IP using contents a commercial vehicle, therefore subject to commercial license of $99.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Tergiminius
Binary Star
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Posted - 2011.06.16 10:30:00 -
[775]
Edited by: Tergiminius on 16/06/2011 10:35:33
Originally by: SystemAdministrator The Old Republic anyone? Looking rather good at the moment compared to the current trend of CPP decisions.
P.S. Yes I am MAD!
I have to agree with this: Sony acquires CCP's DUST exclusively for PS3 and introduces the "NGE" - they've done it before and we all know where that went, don't let them do it again by screwing the EVE people |
Rhonaiis
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.16 10:31:00 -
[776]
Originally by: vyseman
Originally by: Kronus Heilgar
You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats
Third party tools from fans (like EFT, evemon, dotlan, eve-central, ...), gadgets, fanarts etc. are making online games what they are. Preventing those creative minds from developing stuff for YOU and us is a big mistake.
EA games bought more shares of CCP, right?
-- Warp 9, engage! |
Bomberlocks
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2011.06.16 10:37:00 -
[777]
It's probably time that CCP looks to others for an example of how to do things: The Icelandic government is asking its citizens for advice on how to change the constitution. It's time that CCP getover themselves and started asking their customers for advice on how NOT to ruin their own company.
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SystemAdministrator
Amarr Invision Hosting
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Posted - 2011.06.16 10:37:00 -
[778]
Another thing i just realized. Where does this leave the makers of clear skies? They have a donate button on their page.
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Membaris Grim
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Posted - 2011.06.16 10:39:00 -
[779]
Edited by: Membaris Grim on 16/06/2011 10:43:17 In my opinion, CCP evolves in a negative way like Activision and other software developer.
That's not the thing that you have promised at the fanfest. This won't work, and you only will destroy free services (example: eve-central). The game-experience will suffer, and EVE will become some sort of Asian-grinder with ig-store and fees for licenses. CCP... WiS, Incarna and Dev.Track is a bunch of ****, and you should use your capacities to improve the existent game-experience but not with such a thing like WIS and Dev. licenses.
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Asura Kinkaid
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Posted - 2011.06.16 10:40:00 -
[780]
never even mind the money. any sort of licensing is by nature restrictive and at best is a hurdle for the honest and will do NOTHING to dissuade the crooks. to call it a "service" and to speak of "enabling" is yet more bull****.
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