EVE Search - RL Monetization Effects on MD-centric meta-services/apps

All Channels

Market Discussions

RL Monetization Effects on MD-centric meta-services/apps

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 [2] :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Esan Vartesa Khanid Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2011.06.15 20:04:00 - [31] Originally by: Hexxx Yes, however, we need some kind of way to charge money (if we want to) for services that use EVE IP (i.e. API data). The current suggestion is flawed in that RL $ Donation and ISK payments shouldn't need a commericial license but we do need something to give developers more options on how to subsidize their costs...unless you're volunteering to foot my development bills. Forgive me, but there's a great distinction between developers and hobbyists. Remember that this entire business is centered on CCP getting paid by players for entertainment content. If you are creating content (any Eve-related applications are in the end added content) with the aim of being paid, even just to mitigate the cost of your time, you should be working directly for CCP. If you are creating content for the benefit of the Eve community, well good for you you generous soul, but don't expect to be compensated for your selflessness. The Microsoft/Apple model of charging developers a fee for the privilege of creating content for their platforms only works because there's a large enough market for that content. Eve Online, not so much.
Adunh Slavy	Posted - 2011.06.15 20:05:00 - [32] Originally by: Hexxx Yes, however, we need some kind of way to charge money (if we want to) for services that use EVE IP (i.e. API data). The current suggestion is flawed in that RL $ Donation and ISK payments shouldn't need a commercial license but we do need something to give developers more options on how to subsidize their costs...unless you're volunteering to foot my development bills. I admittedly am not aware of all the ins and outs of the EULA, but donations? ISK? 3rd party banner ads? None of this is within CCP's jurisdiction, much less within their ability to enforce. As for financing your work ...
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.15 20:10:00 - [33] Originally by: Adunh Slavy Originally by: Hexxx Yes, however, we need some kind of way to charge money (if we want to) for services that use EVE IP (i.e. API data). The current suggestion is flawed in that RL $ Donation and ISK payments shouldn't need a commercial license but we do need something to give developers more options on how to subsidize their costs...unless you're volunteering to foot my development bills. I admittedly am not aware of all the ins and outs of the EULA, but donations? ISK? 3rd party banner ads? None of this is within CCP's jurisdiction, much less within their ability to enforce. As for financing your work ... Just imagine how many of the 3rd party developers for free stuff (95% of all) use free hosting. ALL that free hosting comes with Google ads or similar, it's not even THEIR Google ads. Yet they are meant to pay $99 even for a FREE OPEN SOURCE app! Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.15 20:13:00 - [34] http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1528607&page=9#262 Ah, sweet, sweet sound of backpedaling ! Or was it just (YET ANOTHER) critical failure in communication skills ? Probably a bit of both if you ask me... Crisis ~~averted~~ delayed. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2011.06.15 20:14:00 - [35] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Originally by: Adunh Slavy Originally by: Hexxx Yes, however, we need some kind of way to charge money (if we want to) for services that use EVE IP (i.e. API data). The current suggestion is flawed in that RL $ Donation and ISK payments shouldn't need a commercial license but we do need something to give developers more options on how to subsidize their costs...unless you're volunteering to foot my development bills. I admittedly am not aware of all the ins and outs of the EULA, but donations? ISK? 3rd party banner ads? None of this is within CCP's jurisdiction, much less within their ability to enforce. As for financing your work ... Just imagine how many of the 3rd party developers for free stuff (95% of all) use free hosting. ALL that free hosting comes with Google ads or similar, it's not even THEIR Google ads. Yet they are meant to pay $99 even for a FREE OPEN SOURCE app! I honestly don't think that's going to survive the draft version. Meanwhile, people like me would love the option to charge for certain things we do.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.15 20:40:00 - [36] Originally by: Hexxx Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Originally by: Adunh Slavy Originally by: Hexxx Yes, however, we need some kind of way to charge money (if we want to) for services that use EVE IP (i.e. API data). The current suggestion is flawed in that RL $ Donation and ISK payments shouldn't need a commercial license but we do need something to give developers more options on how to subsidize their costs...unless you're volunteering to foot my development bills. I admittedly am not aware of all the ins and outs of the EULA, but donations? ISK? 3rd party banner ads? None of this is within CCP's jurisdiction, much less within their ability to enforce. As for financing your work ... Just imagine how many of the 3rd party developers for free stuff (95% of all) use free hosting. ALL that free hosting comes with Google ads or similar, it's not even THEIR Google ads. Yet they are meant to pay $99 even for a FREE OPEN SOURCE app! I honestly don't think that's going to survive the draft version. Meanwhile, people like me would love the option to charge for certain things we do. Hey feel free to charge USD 10k for each of your apps. I respect your desires. But I want to feel free to keep giving ALL AWAY FOR FREE TO EVERYONE as well. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2011.06.15 20:47:00 - [37] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Hey feel free to charge USD 10k for each of your apps. I respect your desires. But I want to feel free to keep giving ALL AWAY FOR FREE TO EVERYONE as well. That is actually what I thought of when I first heard of this from fanfest. A way to allow people who WANT to get paid for their work based on EVE stuff to get paid. But that's not what happened here. I think it would be easier for CCP to create a EVE App Store then it would be to try and get the community to foot the bill. If you want to get paid, you register with CCP, CCP put it on their little EVE App store and people buy the app, pay CCP, then CCP turn around and give you money. They take part of the cut. This would solve all the problems, but I highly doubt they'll actually take that route. They are too lazy to design a whole new system like that to handle it. Amarr for Life
Dretzle Omega Caldari Ozeki Corp.	Posted - 2011.06.15 20:50:00 - [38] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Hey feel free to charge USD 10k for each of your apps. I respect your desires. But I want to feel free to keep giving ALL AWAY FOR FREE TO EVERYONE as well. You can. If you want to feel free to give it all away for free, remove the donation links. If you feel that having donation links justifies the cost of having them, include them and get the commercial license. Also, as Akita linked, let's keep watching and see what we find is a reasonable level. (i.e. is it a big deal to charge you a one-time fee of $25 if you happen to get $25 every couple months in donations?) Originally by: Akita T BTW, if you see God when you're clutching for your chest due to sudden realization you have no chance to get out of this with your wallet intact tell him he still owes me money
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.15 21:43:00 - [39] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 15/06/2011 21:44:16 Originally by: Dretzle Omega Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Hey feel free to charge USD 10k for each of your apps. I respect your desires. But I want to feel free to keep giving ALL AWAY FOR FREE TO EVERYONE as well. You can. If you want to feel free to give it all away for free, remove the donation links. If you feel that having donation links justifies the cost of having them, include them and get the commercial license. Also, as Akita linked, let's keep watching and see what we find is a reasonable level. (i.e. is it a big deal to charge you a one-time fee of $25 if you happen to get $25 every couple months in donations?) Here's my reasonable level: Here's my OH SO AWESOME INCOME for 6 months. I spent 200 euros AND I AM FUCING UNEMPLOYED. I earned drumrolls* A whole 0.26 Ç! I did it for the community not for the money, ** *********** * Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
RAW23	Posted - 2011.06.15 21:50:00 - [40] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha I did it for the community not for the money, ** *********** * Came expecting impressive Italian swearing (three letter swear words? Cool!). Left disappointed.
Elise DarkStar	Posted - 2011.06.15 21:51:00 - [41] Originally by: RAW23 Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha I did it for the community not for the money, ** *********** * Came expecting impressive Italian swearing (three letter swear words? Cool!). Left disappointed. rofl hi5
cosmoray Cosmoray Holdings Corp	Posted - 2011.06.15 22:51:00 - [42] Haven't been around much and come back to this! Wierd development by CCP. One of the fun things about Eve is that people choose to develop 3rd party applications that enhance the game play of Eve. Some people did indeed do this to earn extra ISK, but a great majority did this for fun to enhance their enjoyment. Now CCP is asking these casual developers to pay for the privelidge of making external programs. Off the top of my head all casinos and certainly Eve Online Holdem (EOH) Poker will have to pay for the license. CCP are saying its fine that you earn a huge ISK fortune on your casino, we just want a piece of the pie. All third party apps that draw API data will be effected. I doubt that people will require a license for doing things like audits which charge ISK. That was just an initial dev blog idea, so VV can get back in the pram now. Her services will not be affected. Overall I think this will certainly have a negative impact on the game.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.15 23:01:00 - [43] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 15/06/2011 23:02:54 Originally by: cosmoray I doubt that people will require a license for doing things like audits which charge ISK. That was just an initial dev blog idea, so VV can get back in the pram now. Her services will not be affected. Overall I think this will certainly have a negative impact on the game. 1) I develop the application that provides for 60% of my audits graphs. It obviously uses the API. I obviously shared with everyone and for free and with me paying 200 euros a year on top of that, plus months of work creating the website. Me idiot, eh? 1a) I use JEveAssets and several other apps. They are ALL hosted on sites with Google ads and/or donations. Their developers will shut them down, next patch (ie Incarna) will screw something in the API like always and everything will just stop working, so no audits. At Incarna or the next patch, it's the same, it's just a matter of time. 2) I develop the application that indexes all my audits and makes them searchable. Same as above. 3) My audits all reside on a website with Google ads netting me a whole 0.26 in 6 months (huge, eh?) and I export them to publish them on the EvE forums. Therefore I either return to taking 2 full days writing an awful looking audit like in 2009 or close shop. I close shop. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
knanid volatar	Posted - 2011.06.15 23:02:00 - [44] Originally by: cosmoray ..... tumbleweed.jpg
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec	Posted - 2011.06.16 00:08:00 - [45] I think this development is another ups premature ejaculation from ccp. They have done this a few time in the past, but they always seem to fix things and their real intentions are usually rather good. I believe this is the best thing that has happened in the whole game community globally. Its granting the ability for the playerbase to take semiprofessional part in creating content in a game. Basically all of us have just been offered a freelance / voluntary job for ccp. When they fix the terms this will be epic. Wait till you see Jean Paul Gaultier and Rayban, and upcoming unknown designers etc create epic stuff for incarna. Or old services like Chribba etc going semi pro and not needing a day job anymore. The sky is the limit for this move. I tip my hat big time.. Tycoon wannabe go here: SCC Lounge cocktails and Dreams.
Amarr Citizen 155 Nordar Innovations.	Posted - 2011.06.16 07:16:00 - [46] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 15/06/2011 23:02:54 Originally by: cosmoray I doubt that people will require a license for doing things like audits which charge ISK. That was just an initial dev blog idea, so VV can get back in the pram now. Her services will not be affected. Overall I think this will certainly have a negative impact on the game. 1) I develop the application that provides for 60% of my audits graphs. It obviously uses the API. I obviously shared with everyone and for free and with me paying 200 euros a year on top of that, plus months of work creating the website. Me idiot, eh? 1a) I use JEveAssets and several other apps. They are ALL hosted on sites with Google ads and/or donations. Their developers will shut them down, next patch (ie Incarna) will screw something in the API like always and everything will just stop working, so no audits. At Incarna or the next patch, it's the same, it's just a matter of time. 2) I develop the application that indexes all my audits and makes them searchable. Same as above. 3) My audits all reside on a website with Google ads netting me a whole 0.26 in 6 months (huge, eh?) and I export them to publish them on the EvE forums. Therefore I either return to taking 2 full days writing an awful looking audit like in 2009 or close shop. I close shop. You mad bro? Did I do that right?
Skarii TuThess East Aridia Trading Company	Posted - 2011.06.16 07:40:00 - [47] Edited by: Skarii TuThess on 16/06/2011 07:42:00 Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 You mad bro? Did I do that right? Yes! But I think you should have said after: "amidoinitrite?" I don't think anyone has a problem with those who want to make their Eve-Apps into a business to have to pay a licence for using someone else's IP in their products. It makes sense that if you get money off the back of someone else's infrastructure and effort that they should get a cut. However charging for in game currency, or for associated low-value support (such as donations or free-ads) I think is wrong. I also am not sure that they are legally enforceable to distinguish between the free licences. Eve has continually stated that all in game items have no value, donations are entirely voluntary and therefore effectively gifts (and taxed in a totally different way), and free-ads could be argued to be supporting the website rather than the app (this last one is a bit tenuous!). But there is a further issue. Say a merc group uses their website to gather interest and prove they are professional (maybe they even have a killboard to show this off). This is an Eve related service. Could a merc now charge RL money to their clients for services given in game if they pay the $99 fee? If someone then blows up their ships preventing them from undertaking that service have they now disrupted their business? Note that even charging ISK in this "draft" would incur the $99 fee. So it may be good for you Hexxx, who has seen the $$$ signs from this that would allow you to justify spending more time onmaing your apps a higher quality because you will be financially supported, but the overall impact to the community is bad. Although there may be some demand from the community for such things (and I'm speaking as someone that would be interested in purchasingthe right app to help me with an idea I have been procrastinating over for 3 years) that would allow a higher level of development, there are also many many hobbyists that do a great job supporting the game that should be rewarded rather than penalised. So overall I agree that this could bea good thing, but not in it's current state. Oh and VV, I use Eve Income Analyzer, but I didn't donate (I feel bad now!). I'd send you some ISK, but it'd cost you $99 (plus I have a feeling you are good for ISK!)
Selene D'Celeste Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company ISK Six	Posted - 2011.06.16 12:23:00 - [48] Originally by: SencneS Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Hey feel free to charge USD 10k for each of your apps. I respect your desires. But I want to feel free to keep giving ALL AWAY FOR FREE TO EVERYONE as well. That is actually what I thought of when I first heard of this from fanfest. A way to allow people who WANT to get paid for their work based on EVE stuff to get paid. But that's not what happened here. I think it would be easier for CCP to create a EVE App Store then it would be to try and get the community to foot the bill. If you want to get paid, you register with CCP, CCP put it on their little EVE App store and people buy the app, pay CCP, then CCP turn around and give you money. They take part of the cut. This would solve all the problems, but I highly doubt they'll actually take that route. They are too lazy to design a whole new system like that to handle it. I never agree with you, but this would be a very sane approach as long as the isk/banned/donation clause was also in there as is being suggested. Oh CCP ... ______________________________
Strrog Caldari Zero Excavations	Posted - 2011.06.16 12:38:00 - [49] Originally by: Liberty Eternal Edited by: Liberty Eternal on 15/06/2011 17:00:08 Potentially there are some very large implications - most immediate few that spring to mind are; i) There will be an increase in such services and websites in general ii) There will be an increase in investments and offerings on MD of such services and websites and the big one - iii) A bank or other financial company in EVE now has an incentive not to scam, if they make more money by staying loyal to their customers than they will by stealing the isk and of course iv) A new breed of scams - possibly followed by legal action - are on the horizon. Edit: And are you able to clarify the meaning of this? Originally by: CCP Will I be able to charge real life currency for in game services? No, the commercial license does not allow you to charge real life money for any in-game services. Ehh LE I do not think I saw anything about the Law enforcement on the license... :), but that would be very good if they did implement scam prevention and some sort of security.
Strrog Caldari Zero Excavations	Posted - 2011.06.16 12:47:00 - [50] Originally by: Caleb Ayrania I think this development is another ups premature ejaculation from ccp. They have done this a few time in the past, but they always seem to fix things and their real intentions are usually rather good. I believe this is the best thing that has happened in the whole game community globally. Its granting the ability for the playerbase to take semiprofessional part in creating content in a game. Basically all of us have just been offered a freelance / voluntary job for ccp. When they fix the terms this will be epic. Wait till you see Jean Paul Gaultier and Rayban, and upcoming unknown designers etc create epic stuff for incarna. Or old services like Chribba etc going semi pro and not needing a day job anymore. The sky is the limit for this move. I tip my hat big time.. Lets start with a good example: Grendell 3rd party in-game service, which has nothing really to do with 3rd party software, will have to get a license (to pay extra $$ for something that he has already paid and that's game time plus content), this already contradicts basic EULA rules. Please correct me if I am wrong!!!
RAW23	Posted - 2011.06.16 13:06:00 - [51] Edited by: RAW23 on 16/06/2011 13:07:02 Originally by: Strrog Lets start with a good example: Grendell 3rd party in-game service, which has nothing really to do with 3rd party software, will have to get a license (to pay extra $$ for something that he has already paid and that's game time plus content), this already contradicts basic EULA rules. Please correct me if I am wrong!!! This hasn't really been made clear as we haven't been told what 'services' covers yet. It may well be that there are no issues with this but it's unclear whether things would be different for a) ingame services offered only ingame or via the forums, b) ingame services advertised through out of game websites, and c) services, such as audits, which take place out of game and make use of CCP intellectual property via the API and various apps (c type services might also fall under either a or b). I'm not actually sure that it would be easy to define and divide ingame services from out of game services given how much of eve's content actually involves at least some use of out of game elements (spreadsheets, for example). We'll have to wait and see on this question.
Strrog Caldari Zero Excavations	Posted - 2011.06.16 13:18:00 - [52] Originally by: RAW23 Edited by: RAW23 on 16/06/2011 13:07:02 Originally by: Strrog Lets start with a good example: Grendell 3rd party in-game service, which has nothing really to do with 3rd party software, will have to get a license (to pay extra $$ for something that he has already paid and that's game time plus content), this already contradicts basic EULA rules. Please correct me if I am wrong!!! This hasn't really been made clear as we haven't been told what 'services' covers yet. It may well be that there are no issues with this but it's unclear whether things would be different for a) ingame services offered only ingame or via the forums, b) ingame services advertised through out of game websites, and c) services, such as audits, which take place out of game and make use of CCP intellectual property via the API and various apps (c type services might also fall under either a or b). I'm not actually sure that it would be easy to define and divide ingame services from out of game services given how much of eve's content actually involves at least some use of out of game elements (spreadsheets, for example). We'll have to wait and see on this question. Hey RAW, my main concern technically speaking is that CCP is thinking of pretty much charging for in-game content AGAIN or on TOP of 15$(which is covered under monthly payment term), in other thread I just posteda mini example of how it actually looks like: Originally by: Vasaczk Originally by: Wyke Mossari You need to get a grip. 1) It is the Law that CCP have to protect their copyright other wise they loose it. 2) They are granting free licences to free services. 3) The $99 cost of a commercial licence is very low, if you cannot support that your business model is poor. Bingo! RL curreny has nothing to do with success of an in-game content, you are not supposed to pay CCP for having isk from players...lol. That's like WoW would be charging for having a new epic item equipped ( that you have obtained from raid) on your character lmao.. just imagine that.
Cetus Perle Rote EVE Financial Services and Insurance	Posted - 2011.06.16 15:12:00 - [53] Edited by: Cetus Perle Rote on 16/06/2011 15:13:33 I really don't think CCP is daft enough to charge a license for services rendered in exchange for ISK. If you do, you will lose a mass of customer, one of which will be me. Corporations such as Red Frog/Black Frog and EFSI come to mind regarding this. This point isn't covered in the dev blog but in my opinion things need to be spelled for various scenarios. I firmly disagree with requiring a commercial license for Ad based and donation based sites as well. Sites such as Eve Board, Eve-Central, Clear Skies, Dotlan, Evemon, Battleclinic, Eve-Kill Griefwatch And so many more. You are ruining the community by requiring such sites to submit a fee to you. Hilmar have you taken a new up a new hero in life? To bad I started playing eve after its prime. Commericial Licenses should only be required if real money is required to achieve a service. If there is a donate button on a site but you do not gain special access to services due to such donation then a commercial license should not be required. Also requiring a commercial license for advertisements? Seriously? Hosting costs money. /rant Another question that comes to mind is how will you enforce this? I speculate that the image servers, static data exports and API access is going to need soon need login information tied to your developer account with CCP. This is the only way I can effectively see a lock down regarding monetizing. Just remember CCP, these sites help your users continue their subscription.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.16 15:27:00 - [54] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 16/06/2011 15:29:42 Originally by: Skarii TuThess Oh and VV, I use Eve Income Analyzer, but I didn't donate (I feel bad now!). I'd send you some ISK, but it'd cost you $99 (plus I have a feeling you are good for ISK!) In case you did not get the latest version with API download fixes on vahrokh.com, I will enable the website for you and you can go get it. For free. Till it lasts. Originally by: Raw23 c) services, such as audits, which take place out of game and make use of CCP intellectual property via the API and various apps (c type services might also fall under either a or b Audits are dead if this goes on. I have to use 7-8 applications. NO WAY I am going to buy 7-8 $$$ SW licenses. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Cetus Perle Rote EVE Financial Services and Insurance	Posted - 2011.06.16 15:39:00 - [55] Hopefully we will see an update here soon. Chribba: @EveOnline Wow just wow, seriously CCP, I love you guys, but this just isn't the way to go. Just don't. Hilmar Veigar: @Chribba @EveOnline hi man, we have case of miscommunication here, please read the clarification by atlas Chribba: @HilmarVeigar @EveOnline thanks for taking this seriously, tools you give 3rdp-devs is a reason the community is so awesome, dont ruin that

Pages: 1 [2] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.