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Little Mittens
Free Speech
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.12 11:19:00 -
[31] - Quote
Tanith YarnDemon wrote:You're mentioning two fairly small regions. You mean like Amarr was bought out by AMARRtrade, also a small region? Nah, I don't think there's any concerted effort...
|

Trappo
Imperial Pharmacy
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.12 14:10:00 -
[32] - Quote
TASHMURKONtrademan bought one from me, cheers |

Kaikka Carel
White syndicate Wormhole Holders
75
|
Posted - 2012.09.12 14:21:00 -
[33] - Quote
My buddy just said that the cheapest sell order is 576kk while I just bought one for 519kk 9 jumps away from the Jita. |

Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
252
|
Posted - 2012.09.12 14:42:00 -
[34] - Quote
There has been plans for operation like this.
Someone is making some profits  |

Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
985
|
Posted - 2012.09.12 15:21:00 -
[35] - Quote
The volume in Forge is actually low. That indicates that the price rise is more due to low supply, rather than high demand. Players are not creating (via use of RL cash) and selling sufficient PLEX to meet current demand.
There are huge stockpiles of PLEX in the game collected by investors over the years. One wonders what will happen to the PLEX when they decide its time to cash out. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |

Javajunky
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
36
|
Posted - 2012.09.12 15:36:00 -
[36] - Quote
I'll give CCP the cash for the accounts rather than give the manipulator the ISk. Just because I can easliy afford it.
But I assure you CCP will step in...
People seem to forget CCP is a business and its investors want stability and or growth in the business. This is especially important now that it just obtained additional "private funding" and DUST 514 is just around the corner. CCP doesn't want the drama.
Options:
10,000 plex sitting on the sideline from bannet bot accounts
Banning the manipulators entirely, just because the EULA will let them
Just seeding PLEX at a lower fixed Price permanently (maybe 300M each - ouchies manipulators)
CCP can easily remove Manipulators equation at anytime and there will be nothing they can do about it. You can mess with the mechancis and manipulate the price of an in game product any time thats an in-game mechanic. PLEX is a delicate threshold, item, the second you start impairing subscription numbers, you're crossing a line.
CCP answers to its investors, that is how a businesses work.
This will work itself out, I'm going to break out the popcorn - should be a good show. Manipulator tears incoming. |

Huttan Funaila
222 EVE 2 2 2
13
|
Posted - 2012.09.12 15:51:00 -
[37] - Quote
Javajunky wrote: Just seeding PLEX at a lower fixed Price ... This will kill off CCP's ability to sell PLEX, as there would be little to no reason for players to purchase PLEX from other players, and with that part of the equation killed off, there is no point purchasing PLEX with RL money, thus killing off a source of income for CCP.
My tinfoil hat suspicion is that enough RMT botrings got busted that this is the result. |

Idris Helion
University of Caille Gallente Federation
70
|
Posted - 2012.09.12 15:52:00 -
[38] - Quote
Unused PLEX sitting in piles in player hangars hurts CCP's bottom line because it complicates their accounting in real life. They know how many unredeemed PLEX are in the game, but not when they are actually going to be used for game-time (which is the whole point of PLEX, don't forget). The idea behind PLEX was that it provided a sanctioned way to do RM trading -- richer players would buy PLEX with cash, convert the PLEX to ISK, and spend, spend, spend. Poorer players could grind ISK and buy PLEX, then redeem the PLEX for game-time. It worked pretty well for awhile, but the system seems to be breaking down.
The cost of a PLEX is now higher than a monthly sub (by about 25%). Even poorer players have to look at the mechanics involved for grinding ISK for PLEX vs just paying for a sub -- 520M ISK may not be much money to the monocled elite, but it's hours and hours of dreadful grinding for many players. Speculators may be to blame for some of the recent spiking, but I think some of it is also simply due to a shrinking supply of PLEX on the market. Only CCP knows for sure since they can tell how much unredeemed PLEX is still in the game.
A possible solution would be to put an expiration date on the use of a PLEX. Three months, six months, a year, something like that: if you don't use it, it expires and is worth nothing. That would prevent speculators from hoarding PLEX for long periods of time, and would allow CCP some finer-grained control over the situation without intervening in the market. |

Jori McKie
Friends Of Harassment
29
|
Posted - 2012.09.12 16:15:00 -
[39] - Quote
There might be point when CCP intervenes but i doubt it will be before we see much higher Plex prices.
This is just for the dudes who are crying it's to expansive, it costs to much time to grind party. Right now at lets say 600m per Plex, you need with
- absolute stupid L4 mission grinding with no idea how to use LP, a Drake 20m/h => 30h (that's 2h for 15days) very painful but doable, still remember you can play this game for "free" after and just used your free time
- knowing how to grind L4 mission and use LP with no idea of the market to convert into ISK, a BS 60m/h => 10h (that's 2h for 5days) not really that hard
- knowing how to perfectly grind L4 mission and use LP with good knowledge of the market to convert into ISK, a damage fitted BS 120m/h => 5h (that's 2h for 2.5days) easy going
Now lets say a Plex costs 1b - absolute stupid L4 mission grinding with no idea how to use LP, a Drake 20m/h => 50h (that's 2h for 25days) that is only doable for a very dediacted mission runner
- knowing how to grind L4 mission and use LP with no idea of the market to convert into ISK, a BS 60m/h => 16.6h (that's 2h for 8.3days) still not really that hard
- knowing how to perfectly grind L4 mission and use LP with good knowledge of the market to convert into ISK, a damage fitted BS 120m/h => 8.3h (that's 2h for 4.15days) still easy going
No to mention all the other better methods of earning ISK in EVE. It is still to easy to get ISK in EVE and i think the Plex price is reflecting that. |

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
346
|
Posted - 2012.09.12 16:45:00 -
[40] - Quote
Jori McKie wrote:There might be point when CCP intervenes but i doubt it will be before we see much higher Plex prices.
This is just for the dudes who are crying it's to expansive, it costs to much time to grind party. Right now at lets say 600m per Plex, you need with - absolute stupid L4 mission grinding with no idea how to use LP, a Drake 20m/h => 30h (that's 2h for 15days) very painful but doable, still remember you can play this game for "free" after and just used your free time (snip blah blah blah L4missions whine blah blah)
Oh come on stop talking about blaming L4 missions veteran mains with 8 day old speed tanked alts are making 20+ billion a month in FW Winmitar complexes. They went tier 5 again last weekend & we're seeing the PLEX spkie brcause of it. The PvE designers need to take a class which explains the definition of a Monty Haul campaign. At least with Incursions you had to have 3 month's plus o trianing to get in a legion or logistic then had to find a fleet and incursions paid what 1/4 what these speedtank alts are making a month? -á"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people-ávery angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." - D. Adams |

Jori McKie
Friends Of Harassment
29
|
Posted - 2012.09.12 17:14:00 -
[41] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote: Oh come on stop talking about blaming L4 missions veteran mains with 8 day old speed tanked alts are making 20+ billion a month in FW Winmitar complexes. They went tier 5 again last weekend & we're seeing the PLEX spkie brcause of it. The PvE designers need to take a class which explains the definition of a Monty Haul campaign. At least with Incursions you had to have 3 month's plus o trianing to get in a legion or logistic then had to find a fleet and incursions paid what 1/4 what these speedtank alts are making a month?
Jori McKie wrote: No to mention all the other better methods of earning ISK in EVE. It is still to easy to get ISK in EVE and i think the Plex price is reflecting that.
You should better read to the end of my post. |

Vladimir Vladimirovitch Putain
Remanaquie Federation
15
|
Posted - 2012.09.12 17:24:00 -
[42] - Quote
Amarrius Ibn Pontificus wrote:ESSENCEtrademan boughtout all plex in essense region. GENESIStrademan boughtout all plex in genesis region.
Feel free to continue the list while claiming there's no manipulation going on.
Oh I'm sorry, was this meant to be a secret?
I'd bet CCP's central bank will fix this before the week-end and manipulater tears will flood these forums.
On a side note, stop blaming Goons for all you dislike about this game. It's gotten old ages ago. If yer unhappy just stop playing,ya know.... do yerself the favor.
Confirming that EVERYSHOREtrademan bought all PLEXes for sale under 600 million in.... You got it! In the Everyshore region. |

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
346
|
Posted - 2012.09.12 17:29:00 -
[43] - Quote
Here is a graphic of what is happening to the Implant prices thanks to T5 ISK reductions in the LP STORES: http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6657/minpigfarm.gif
If another faction goes Tier 5 this week expect 700 minllion ISK PLEX as the speculators go crazy too -á"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people-ávery angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." - D. Adams |

Javajunky
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
37
|
Posted - 2012.09.12 17:56:00 -
[44] - Quote
Huttan Funaila wrote:Javajunky wrote: Just seeding PLEX at a lower fixed Price ... This will kill off CCP's ability to sell PLEX, as there would be little to no reason for players to purchase PLEX from other players, and with that part of the equation killed off, there is no point purchasing PLEX with RL money, thus killing off a source of income for CCP. My tinfoil hat suspicion is that enough RMT botrings got busted that this is the result.
While I think your latter comment has some merit in the overall equation, it's a manipulation run by virtue of the fact people have been reporting who's been buying what. There are people with trillions upon trillions of ISK at thier dipsosal and the a trillion ISK at 520M each allows one to gobble up about 1900 PLEX
The proposed option is simply one of many options I don't believe it would kill off the PLEX for ISK market, all this would do would create a price celing. Just spitballing really but I'm fairly certain CCP will jump at a remedy just like they did with OTEC.
|

Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
155
|
Posted - 2012.09.12 19:35:00 -
[45] - Quote
Now would be a really good time for a PLEX sale.
I am sure there are many players with itchy palpal accounts that will be cashing in very soon.
Only question is what will come first. the market crash or the PLEX sale?
O^O almost missed it. It's already dropping.
SELL SELL SELL..... |

Smarcus Smokus
Donkey Punch Pioneers Sticky Green Acres
10
|
Posted - 2012.09.12 19:42:00 -
[46] - Quote
Isn't this just another result of winmatier 5? It happened shortly before this thread was started. |

Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
155
|
Posted - 2012.09.12 19:55:00 -
[47] - Quote
If you really stop to think about it.
PLEX prices even at +575,000,000 isk is not really out of line considering the inflation the EVE economy has experienced recently.
For as long as I can remember, aside from a few temp fluctuations, PLEX price has always been about half the cost of a freighter.
When PLEX was selling for just over 300 mil each a freighter was worth a little over 600 mil.
freighters right now are sitting between 1.2 and 1.5 bil. So PLEX could be sitting at 600-750 mil before things level out.
never thought I would ever see PLEX that high.
Edit, Make that over 1.6 bil for a freighter right now in Jita. Even buy orders are at 1.5-1.6 bil.
how the hell did that happen? I thought 1.2 bil for a freighter was crazy high. |

Vladimir Vladimirovitch Putain
Remanaquie Federation
16
|
Posted - 2012.09.12 20:03:00 -
[48] - Quote
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:If you really stop to think about it.
PLEX prices even at +575,000,000 isk is not really out of line considering the inflation the EVE economy has experienced recently.
For as long as I can remember, aside from a few temp fluctuations, PLEX price has always been about half the cost of a freighter.
When PLEX was selling for just over 300 mil each a freighter was worth a little over 600 mil.
freighters right now are sitting between 1.2 and 1.5 bil. So PLEX could be sitting at 600-750 mil before things level out.
never thought I would ever see PLEX that high.
Edit, Make that over 1.6 bil for a freighter right now in Jita. Even buy orders are at 1.5-1.6 bil.
how the hell did that happen? I thought 1.2 bil for a freighter was crazy high.
Freighters are a terrible example. Also, there's no inflation so much as there's a speculative bubble. In freighters in particular but on all mineral prices in general too. All of which is totally unrelated to plex. |

Malchristus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.12 20:08:00 -
[49] - Quote
Why is everyone assuming that CCP will step in on behalf and will lower the value of PLEX?
Why is nobody thinking the obvious ....... CCP are BEHIND the escalation of PLEX prices.
Check history of plex prices. CCP has a PLEX "Sale" and reduces the RL cost of PLEX for a limited time. Let's say 100 idiots buy the 30 plex or whatever number it is and then the rest buy the smaller packages. These players are obviously not buying them for game time as it would be cheaper to just sub. So that's a minimum of 3,000 plex floated onto the market immediately. Supply is exceeding now demand and the price goes down on any market under these conditions right? Wrong!
Prior to, during and in a lot of cases just after (like this one) a money for plex sale the price of plex has rocketed. Not once not twice every single time!
Why? Pretty obvious .... it's a cash injection to CCP but who in their right mind is going to buy plex at 400 million isk when they have seen the price at 500 per? They wouldn't so the market needs manipulating by the developer to push the price high to get those people buying. Unfortunately they started the Catch 22 and now it is out of control. It wasn't that long ago plex were 330 mill (plex "sales" weren't as often or as advertised as heavily as they are now. Coincidence I think not!) but by actually stepping in and raising by buying the price has to keep going up because the sales will not work on the next occasion unless the isk price per plex is at least as good as it was before. People will simply wait until the next sale or the one after indefinitely.
There will be naysayers and trolls on this but give it some thought and do some research on plex price history and it really works out. The biggest problem with artificially controlling what is supposed to be a free market is that you have to trust that the coders and people in charge are competent enough to be able to stabilise the market again after the sale ............. oh wait we are talking about the same guys who tried to sneak MT through the backdoor, took 6 months to get incursions right then had to redress them because people were earning too much isk, rewrote our boot.ini and managed to publish an official video of the remodeled Drake with 8 launchers on it. Forget the competency bit. |

Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
155
|
Posted - 2012.09.12 20:37:00 -
[50] - Quote
well PLEX supplies in Jita are rising and the 0.01 isking is driving prices down.
I think I saw it hit a high of 574 mil lowest sell. now there are almost 40 under 570 mil
20.37 Well over 40 now with prices dropping fast.
Glad I cashed out at 572 mil.
20.42 over 50 under 570 mil and prices still diving. several under 568 mil. |

Jeff simply
Simply Enterprises
12
|
Posted - 2012.09.12 21:14:00 -
[51] - Quote
I always wondered why CCP don't factor NPC rewards in with game inflation.
As Bugsy pointed out (even if a bit simply), prices of T1 equipment in a lot of cases has doubled in less than a year. Plex prices have increased, as has the cost of virtually everything else. The only thing that hasn't gone up is the ISK reward for NPC bounties and rewards. |

Vladimir Vladimirovitch Putain
Remanaquie Federation
16
|
Posted - 2012.09.12 21:29:00 -
[52] - Quote
Jeff simply wrote:I always wondered why CCP don't factor NPC rewards in with game inflation.
As Bugsy pointed out (even if a bit simply), prices of T1 equipment in a lot of cases has doubled in less than a year. Plex prices have increased, as has the cost of virtually everything else. The only thing that hasn't gone up is the ISK reward for NPC bounties and rewards.
That's because you can only speculate on market prices, not NPC bounties. Ahhh... see what I did there? |

Jori McKie
Friends Of Harassment
29
|
Posted - 2012.09.12 22:03:00 -
[53] - Quote
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:well PLEX supplies in Jita are rising and the 0.01 isking is driving prices down.
I think I saw it hit a high of 574 mil lowest sell. now there are almost 40 under 570 mil
20.37 Well over 40 now with prices dropping fast.
Glad I cashed out at 572 mil.
20.42 over 50 under 570 mil and prices still diving. several under 568 mil.
20.45 some bellow 565 mil and dropping really fast. supplies still rising.
looks like it is over. hope someone got rich.
The supply is still low, there are roughly only 300 Pley for sale in Jita. buy: 541m sell: 549m (about 20Plex) that is a typical spread for Plex. Coming weekend will be interesting as the volume on a Fr/Sa/So are about 3.5k, expect more volatility. |

Denal Umbra
Coffee Hub
4
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 05:07:00 -
[54] - Quote
The price on the plex will most probably drop below 500 in a few days when everyone will be desperately trying to cash out before it crashes completely. Cheap sales incoming after an artificial high ;) |

Shaalira D'arc
Quantum Cats Syndicate
492
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 06:16:00 -
[55] - Quote
I don't see why CCP would intervene. The higher PLEX prices are, the greater the incentive for people to buy them with RL money and sell them for IG isk. |

Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
23
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 11:47:00 -
[56] - Quote
Looks like I picked the wrong week to consider buying in game PLEX. GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ˝ |

Mu-Shi Ai
Ai Capital
158
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 13:35:00 -
[57] - Quote
Malchristus wrote:Why is nobody thinking the obvious ....... CCP are BEHIND the escalation of PLEX prices.
Because tinfoil hats don't look good on me.
To be perfectly honest, CCP doesn't need to court criticism by working behind the scenes to inflate PLEX prices. Every single account in this game gets paid for one way or another, plus whatever surplus of PLEX exist at any time in the game due to players not being able to consume them at the precise rate at which they're being purchased.
A lot of people argue that CCP has an incentive to boost PLEX prices because the higher the amount of ISK they can be exchanged for, the more players who will supposedly want to purchase them. And yet, one could make a similar argument that CCP has an interest in keeping PLEX prices stable, and tamping down on market volatility, because players will be more likely to purchase PLEX when they feel like they basically know what they'll be able to get for them at any given time. A spike to 700m may show CCP a bump in PLEX sales, but when the price goes back down below 500m, all those people are just going to be waiting for the next spike before they buy again. CCP wouldn't really end up ahead, they'd just be messing with the pattern of PLEX purchases, creating new bumps and dips. Which doesn't serve them at all, if they like revenue streaming in on a consistent, predictable basis.
And like I said before, with all the tinfoil hattery that already goes on in EVE, the last thing CCP needs is people getting up in arms over them inflating PLEX prices. Doing so would hit at the core audience of the game, you know, those who are most likely to **** and moan and threaten to boycott/riot over it, like they did over microtransactions. Those are players that CCP can't afford to lose, because they form the backbone and identity of EVE Online. Why do you think CCP openly intervenes to stabilize PLEX prices in the first place? It's to retain those people. |

forestwho
Foonfleet Investment Banking
31
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 13:48:00 -
[58] - Quote
Malchristus wrote:Why is everyone assuming that CCP will step in on behalf and will lower the value of PLEX?
Why is nobody thinking the obvious ....... CCP are BEHIND the escalation of PLEX prices.
Check history of plex prices. CCP has a PLEX "Sale" and reduces the RL cost of PLEX for a limited time. Let's say 100 idiots buy the 30 plex or whatever number it is and then the rest buy the smaller packages. These players are obviously not buying them for game time as it would be cheaper to just sub. So that's a minimum of 3,000 plex floated onto the market immediately. Supply is exceeding now demand and the price goes down on any market under these conditions right? Wrong!
Prior to, during and in a lot of cases just after (like this one) a money for plex sale the price of plex has rocketed. Not once not twice every single time!
Why? Pretty obvious .... it's a cash injection to CCP but who in their right mind is going to buy plex at 400 million isk when they have seen the price at 500 per? They wouldn't so the market needs manipulating by the developer to push the price high to get those people buying. Unfortunately they started the Catch 22 and now it is out of control. It wasn't that long ago plex were 330 mill (plex "sales" weren't as often or as advertised as heavily as they are now. Coincidence I think not!) but by actually stepping in and raising by buying the price has to keep going up because the sales will not work on the next occasion unless the isk price per plex is at least as good as it was before. People will simply wait until the next sale or the one after indefinitely.
There will be naysayers and trolls on this but give it some thought and do some research on plex price history and it really works out. The biggest problem with artificially controlling what is supposed to be a free market is that you have to trust that the coders and people in charge are competent enough to be able to stabilise the market again after the sale ............. oh wait we are talking about the same guys who tried to sneak MT through the backdoor, took 6 months to get incursions right then had to redress them because people were earning too much isk, rewrote our boot.ini and managed to publish an official video of the remodeled Drake with 8 launchers on it. Forget the competency bit. best way to get trillions of isk out of eve is by creating a bubble and let it crash
|

Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
985
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 17:52:00 -
[59] - Quote
Jeff simply wrote:I always wondered why CCP don't factor NPC rewards in with game inflation.
As Bugsy pointed out (even if a bit simply), prices of T1 equipment in a lot of cases has doubled in less than a year. Plex prices have increased, as has the cost of virtually everything else. The only thing that hasn't gone up is the ISK reward for NPC bounties and rewards.
This is actually a very good setup by CCP.
People make isk in one of two basic ways: Acquire stuff to sell to others, and from NPCs; bounties and mission rewards. The first method does not increase total ISK in the game, in fact it reduces it via taxes and fees. The second method does add ISK to the game.
Adding ISK to the game tends to drive inflation. As process rise, more players tend to use method one ( sell to players) for isk, reducing their use of method 2. This reduces ISK growth and helps control inflation.
Right now we have mineral inflation, but we also have some serious deflation in the implant market. Its not clear if overall we have inflation. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |

Malchristus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 19:48:00 -
[60] - Quote
Mu-Shi Ai wrote:Malchristus wrote:Why is nobody thinking the obvious ....... CCP are BEHIND the escalation of PLEX prices. A spike to 700m may show CCP a bump in PLEX sales, but when the price goes back down below 500m, all those people are just going to be waiting for the next spike before they buy again. CCP wouldn't really end up ahead, they'd just be messing with the pattern of PLEX purchases, creating new bumps and dips. Which doesn't serve them at all, if they like revenue streaming in on a consistent, predictable basis.
This is exactly what I said and I believe. I don't think you need a tinfoil hat you just need a reality check and to lose a bit of confidence. Those same players you are talking about with MT DID boycott the game and protest and all because CCP couldn't, between their collective brain cells, anticipate the reaction and/or the effects from it which suggests either client-base complacency, sheer lack of intelligence (my pick) or a throw sh&% at the wall and see if it sticks attitude. So back to PLEX, why shouldn't they evoke the same attitude or have the same lack of intelligence??
If you read my text properly what I'm suggesting is that the brain cell they are sharing doesn't have the foresight to see the repercussions of manipulating the market it just goes ahead and does it and then worries about it later. It's been this way for almost everything from the beginning, is now and ever shall be, AMEN!
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