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When did our 15 become not enough?

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Myra2007 Millstone Industries	Posted - 2011.06.16 12:13:00 - [31] Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Hint: Keep thinking on how a growing enterprise (such as a milk company shipping its product) also grows its expenses. And it's customer base and revenue at the same time. -- Originally by: CCP Elais It was a great Frankenstein moment [...] to see the forum [...] come alive.
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2011.06.16 12:17:00 - [32] Originally by: Myra2007 Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Hint: Keep thinking on how a growing enterprise (such as a milk company shipping its product) also grows its expenses. And it's customer base and revenue at the same time. :facepalm: I thought we were making progress. Back to the milk company... Also growing its customer base and revenue at the same time . Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.16 12:24:00 - [33] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 16/06/2011 12:26:47 Edited by: Rodj Blake on 16/06/2011 12:24:41 Originally by: Sunji Togenada Originally by: Rodj Blake And did you know that despite that Eve is still has one of the most expensive subscriptions out there? Compared to what, exactly? Runescape? Did WoW start charging $9.95 a month when everybody but me was looking? Is this what SW:TOR is charging? Less? Seriously, what other MMO is this constantly repeated weasel-words "EVE IS EXPENSIVE" argument talking about because I am missing out on great deals Yes, you are missing out on some good deals. Here's some examples. Monthly subscription fees: City of Heroes - ú8.99/month Runescape - ú3.50/month Sony Station Access (gives access to SWG, DCUO, PotBS, EQ, EQII, Vanguard, Planetside) ú18.75/month Now, arguably Eve is better than those games and well worth the Ç15 (equivalent to around $21) a month Europeans get charged for it, but if microtransactions get added on as well... Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Ala Adoulin	Posted - 2011.06.16 12:26:00 - [34] Originally by: Scanner717 Compared to what, exactly? Runescape? Did WoW start charging $9.95 a month when everybody but me was looking? Is this what SW:TOR is charging? Less? Seriously, what other MMO is this constantly repeated weasel-words "EVE IS EXPENSIVE" argument talking about because I am missing out on great deals From what I have been told the euro players pay more because of exchange rate silliness. So they pay something like 20 USD. .....and Wow charge ú30 for expansions that give about 10 hours extra play.
Brooks Puuntai Minmatar Solar Nexus. -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2011.06.16 12:33:00 - [35] Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Great! You seem to have finally engaged your brain a bit. Now see if you can figure out why the OP's a cynical troll. Hint: Keep thinking on how a growing enterprise (such as a milk company shipping its product) also grows its expenses. Kind of a bad analogy when it comes to the OPs comment. To reference to the OPs comment to your milk analogy would be if the milk company charged the same price they did for milk but gave you the option to pay $2 more for a lid and a extra $3 for a handle. What your referencing to is inflation and competitive pricing. Where the value of the dollar/euros increases or decreases over time. So that analogy would make sense if CCP raised/lowered the price of subs to match the current value of said currency.
Kara Kugisa	Posted - 2011.06.16 12:39:00 - [36] Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 16/06/2011 12:29:11 Edited by: Rodj Blake on 16/06/2011 12:26:47 Edited by: Rodj Blake on 16/06/2011 12:24:41 Originally by: Sunji Togenada Originally by: Rodj Blake And did you know that despite that Eve is still has one of the most expensive subscriptions out there? Compared to what, exactly? Runescape? Did WoW start charging $9.95 a month when everybody but me was looking? Is this what SW:TOR is charging? Less? Seriously, what other MMO is this constantly repeated weasel-words "EVE IS EXPENSIVE" argument talking about because I am missing out on great deals Yes, you are missing out on some good deals. Here's some examples. Monthly subscription fees: City of Heroes - ú8.99/month Runescape - ú3.50/month Sony Station Access (gives access to SWG, DCUO, PotBS, EQ, EQII, Vanguard, Planetside) ú18.75/month Now, arguably Eve is better than those games and well worth the Ç15 (equivalent to around ú13 or $21) a month Europeans get charged for it, but if microtransactions get added on as well... Other games are certainly cheaper. Warcraft is ú12.99 compared to ú13.12 for Eve but when you factor in the expansions costing ú30 its even more. However whatever game you are playing, is $13.12 a month for 20 hours + entertainment actually expensive ? I pay ú20 to watch a football match that lasts 90 minutes, or ú10 to watch a movie that lasts two hours. Its all relative...
Juliette DuBois	Posted - 2011.06.16 12:42:00 - [37] Edited by: Juliette DuBois on 16/06/2011 12:42:49 What is basically boils down to is that companies that are not even expanding have to increase their profits about 3% every year simply because of monetary inflation. And as you know, CCP has expanded and started new projects so their income needs are bigger. Now, increasing your sub price constantly will probably seem bad in eyes of subscriber so MT is more appealing because you can constantly keep adding stuff that pulls money in and nobody complains about it as long as you are not too heavy-handed and greedy.
Brooks Puuntai Minmatar Solar Nexus. -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2011.06.16 12:43:00 - [38] Also realize to play wow you have a pretty decent upstart cost of original game+previous expansions. Where as with Eve no paid expansions and no upstart cost. So a slight increase in cost per month more then compensates for it.
Marchocias Snatch Victory	Posted - 2011.06.16 12:48:00 - [39] Originally by: Holy One Makes me lol all this moaning. Summer of rage everyone was screaming at CCP to get some 'credible business people to run things and stop being amateur n00bs'. Well now you got your MBAs and 'mystery' investors. Bon appetite! I think we actually asked for credible developers to run things... Why would any of us give a monkeys churf about ccp as a business, beyond not wanting it to go into receivership ? ---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it).
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.16 12:49:00 - [40] Originally by: Juliette DuBois Edited by: Juliette DuBois on 16/06/2011 12:42:49 What is basically boils down to is that companies that are not even expanding have to increase their profits about 3% every year simply because of monetary inflation. And as you know, CCP has expanded and started new projects so their income needs are bigger. Now, increasing your sub price constantly will probably seem bad in eyes of subscriber so MT is more appealing because you can constantly keep adding stuff that pulls money in and nobody complains about it as long as you are not too heavy-handed and greedy. You fail to take into account that the number of people playing Eve has increased substantially every year since it was launched. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Adunh Slavy	Posted - 2011.06.16 12:56:00 - [41] Originally by: Acac Sunflyier When did our 15 become not enough? Just a little bit before cap ships, that required another account to move them around the map were released. Or wait, maybe it was just before the security status mechanics forced people to get stuck in low sec and use another account ... Take your pick.
Kara Kugisa	Posted - 2011.06.16 12:56:00 - [42] Originally by: Marchocias Originally by: Holy One Makes me lol all this moaning. Summer of rage everyone was screaming at CCP to get some 'credible business people to run things and stop being amateur n00bs'. Well now you got your MBAs and 'mystery' investors. Bon appetite! I think we actually asked for credible developers to run things... Why would any of us give a monkeys churf about ccp as a business, beyond not wanting it to go into receivership ? One of the most naive posts of the day surely. Its not just receivership to be fearful of, without strategy and investment the game dies anyway.
Ala Adoulin	Posted - 2011.06.16 12:59:00 - [43] Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: Juliette DuBois Edited by: Juliette DuBois on 16/06/2011 12:42:49 What is basically boils down to is that companies that are not even expanding have to increase their profits about 3% every year simply because of monetary inflation. And as you know, CCP has expanded and started new projects so their income needs are bigger. Now, increasing your sub price constantly will probably seem bad in eyes of subscriber so MT is more appealing because you can constantly keep adding stuff that pulls money in and nobody complains about it as long as you are not too heavy-handed and greedy. You fail to take into account that the number of people playing Eve has increased substantially every year since it was launched. Yet the budgets and projections to run the game were no doubt not based on 4,500 subscribers paying ú8 like there were when I first played. There may be more players now, but Im sure the income back then was no where near what was required to sustain the game.
trolburt	Posted - 2011.06.16 13:00:00 - [44] At first I assumed CCP must have taken on a bunch of debt to make Dust and WOD. But it turns out it is CCP's owners that have huge unpayable debts. See this thread http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1364142/page/1 So, yeah, looks like CCP is going to be nickle and diming from now on. I'll pretty much everyone at CCP hates it as much as we do, but they can't say anything.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.16 13:08:00 - [45] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 16/06/2011 13:08:43 Originally by: Ala Adoulin Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: Juliette DuBois Edited by: Juliette DuBois on 16/06/2011 12:42:49 What is basically boils down to is that companies that are not even expanding have to increase their profits about 3% every year simply because of monetary inflation. And as you know, CCP has expanded and started new projects so their income needs are bigger. Now, increasing your sub price constantly will probably seem bad in eyes of subscriber so MT is more appealing because you can constantly keep adding stuff that pulls money in and nobody complains about it as long as you are not too heavy-handed and greedy. You fail to take into account that the number of people playing Eve has increased substantially every year since it was launched. Yet the budgets and projections to run the game were no doubt not based on 4,500 subscribers paying ú8 like there were when I first played. There may be more players now, but Im sure the income back then was no where near what was required to sustain the game. CCP managed to pay off the initial development costs several years ago, which implies that you have no clue about CCP's financial projections. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Ris Dnalor Minmatar Fleet of Doom RaVeN Federation	Posted - 2011.06.16 13:11:00 - [46] Originally by: Acac Sunflyier Wasn't there a time when you didn't have micro transactions yet could still develop expansions and maintain the game? Did something change that you need more money for the same thing? I miss the old days... Worlds of Darkness and Dust514 are expensive to develop is my guess.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.16 13:11:00 - [47] Originally by: trolburt At first I assumed CCP must have taken on a bunch of debt to make Dust and WOD. But it turns out it is CCP's owners that have huge unpayable debts. See this thread http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1364142/page/1 So, yeah, looks like CCP is going to be nickle and diming from now on. I'll pretty much everyone at CCP hates it as much as we do, but they can't say anything. That would explain a lot. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Savage Angel	Posted - 2011.06.16 13:29:00 - [48] How many other things still cost the same as they did years ago? Do you think they can go on forever producing content for 2003 prices? At least they are making the additional costs optional, for now.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.16 13:36:00 - [49] Originally by: Savage Angel How many other things still cost the same as they did years ago? Do you think they can go on forever producing content for 2003 prices? At least they are making the additional costs optional, for now. The cost of a new PC is lower than it was eight years ago. DVDs, CDs etc are all cheaper than they were eight years ago. Buying a house costs less than it did eight years ago in a lot of places. There's quite a few things that cost less than they did eight years ago. Also, whilst Eve's subscription cost may have remained the same, CCP's income has increased dramatically. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Creepy Goat Collateral.	Posted - 2011.06.16 13:44:00 - [50] Y'all forgetting what that dev said during the brief interview on AT at the weekend. Subscription based games are becoming less popular, and games like World Of Tanks and League Of Legends (free to play, microtransaction based) are becoming more popular. He specifically said that if EvE wants to survive for the next 10 years then they need to change their business model, which implies a possibly large drop in subscription price in the next few years; the decrease in revenue to be replaced with microtransactions and more new players. ----
Janus Talmash Talmash Imports and Exports Group	Posted - 2011.06.16 13:47:00 - [51] Don't forget that their bandwidth cost per MB has gone down. Thing is, if they would come to us saying that due to inflation the sub fee, that's been static since forever, can't cover it all anymore and they'd have to increase it then it would make sense. Ofcourse many people would go against it but at least it would be honest without being sneaky about it. If presented properly I could accept that. This... money grabbing left and right, the complete lack of understanding of what EVE is and how their plans affect the game, the ingame economy and the players. It just smells like a cheap sell-out. ________ Amat victoria curam.
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2011.06.16 13:59:00 - [52] Originally by: Creepy Goat Y'all forgetting what that dev said during the brief interview on AT at the weekend. Subscription based games are becoming less popular, and games like World Of Tanks and League Of Legends (free to play, microtransaction based) are becoming more popular. He specifically said that if EvE wants to survive for the next 10 years then they need to change their business model, which implies a possibly large drop in subscription price in the next few years; the decrease in revenue to be replaced with microtransactions and more new players. You cannot really compare Eve to WoT. WoT is a shallow arena style tank shooter. In 6 months you could say "been there, done that" about nearly anything WoT has to offer. They simply don't have enough content to charge $15 for it. F2P games are usually devoid of any depth and complexity.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.16 14:03:00 - [53] Originally by: Creepy Goat Y'all forgetting what that dev said during the brief interview on AT at the weekend. Subscription based games are becoming less popular, and games like World Of Tanks and League Of Legends (free to play, microtransaction based) are becoming more popular. He specifically said that if EvE wants to survive for the next 10 years then they need to change their business model, which implies a possibly large drop in subscription price in the next few years; the decrease in revenue to be replaced with microtransactions and more new players. If Eve wants to be like most other MMOs, then I have to point out that most other MMOs have wizards and elves. I'm pretty sure that CCP could make more money by introducing them. The thing is, Eve has the reputation that it has today precisely because it's not like other MMOs. Also, whilst the micro-transaction may well work in a mainly PvE game with a bit of PvP tacked on as an afterthought, I really don't see how it can work in a competetive PvP game without seriously unbalancing things. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Maverick2011 Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.16 14:11:00 - [54] Edited by: Maverick2011 on 16/06/2011 14:16:51 WELCOME TO CAPITALISM!!! Its always about wanting more and more money. Works for us, works for them. PVPers prepare to rage a lot cause once EVE Shop starts selling boosters and better ships its all about spending 1000 bucks a month to be among the elite. Since i'm a carebear i don't care. But yea PVPers will take a huge hit with micro transactions. See what happens in Atlantica Online and get a feeling of how much PVPers have spend a month to be competitive.
Ana Vyr	Posted - 2011.06.16 14:15:00 - [55] Originally by: Saelie Actually, EVE uses a pretty standard pricing formula for subscription games, unless they or everyone else has changed it in the last couple weeks. Sure, but most other subscription games don't give you a blantant advantage if you pay for more than one account.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.16 14:16:00 - [56] Originally by: Maverick2011 WELCOME TO CAPITALISM!!! Its always about wanting more and more money. Works for us, works for them. Capitalism generally fails when it becomes a race to make the most amount of money in the shortest amount of time with no regard for the future. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Adunh Slavy	Posted - 2011.06.16 14:17:00 - [57] Originally by: Creepy Goat Y'all forgetting what that dev said during the brief interview on AT at the weekend. Subscription based games are becoming less popular, and games like World Of Tanks and League Of Legends (free to play, microtransaction based) are becoming more popular. He specifically said that if EvE wants to survive for the next 10 years then they need to change their business model, which implies a possibly large drop in subscription price in the next few years; the decrease in revenue to be replaced with microtransactions and more new players. Yeah, war is popular too, just look at how many people have died! Kill everyone, it's popular! No, it's profitable for some, and a loosing proposition for others. If there are 10 subscription based games, and 6/10 go MT, all of a sudden it is more "popular". This line of reasoning is dubious. If all there is to eat is beans, because there is no fruit, beans are popular. We all know what the end results of beans are.
Bologna Brains	Posted - 2011.06.16 14:21:00 - [58] Originally by: Ala Adoulin Originally by: Scanner717 Compared to what, exactly? Runescape? Did WoW start charging $9.95 a month when everybody but me was looking? Is this what SW:TOR is charging? Less? Seriously, what other MMO is this constantly repeated weasel-words "EVE IS EXPENSIVE" argument talking about because I am missing out on great deals From what I have been told the euro players pay more because of exchange rate silliness. So they pay something like 20 USD. .....and Wow charge ú30 for expansions that give about 10 hours extra play. You finished all the quest areas and new content in Cataclysm in 10 hours? You should call the Guinness Book of World Records.
Sanadras Riahn	Posted - 2011.06.16 14:32:00 - [59] Originally by: Bologna Brains You finished all the quest areas and new content in Cataclysm in 10 hours? You should call the Guinness Book of World Records. Even with the Cataclysm drop, there were, at most, 20 or so quests that are actually different and worth doing, instead of the same old "go out and kill x number of dudes." And if you don't raid, then once you hit 85, that's it. For as bright and shiny as they made it, Cataclysm was very shallow, content-wise. More to the topic at hand, EVE's only $14.95 for me, last I checked. Which is actually five cents cheaper than any other sub-based MMO out there that's "recent".
Doc Fury Caldari	Posted - 2011.06.16 14:38:00 - [60] Originally by: Holy One Originally by: Midge Mo'yb Originally by: Acac Sunflyier Wasn't there a time when you didn't have micro transactions yet could still develop expansions and maintain the game? Did something change that you need more money for the same thing? I miss the old days... yeah, there busy using our money to develop 2 other games we give not one ** about... The revenue from which - ~~long term~~ if not catastrophic failures** - will guarantee EVE continues to exist. FTFY The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.'

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