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Praxis Astra
Smiling Friends Social Club Stealth Syndicate
125
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Posted - 2012.09.11 23:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
The thing that continually delights me about EVE is how my nervous system and I to react to it as if it were RL (Real Life). I'm not alone in this. We slip between fantasy and reality when we play these games. Its so natural, its like the patter of footsteps. Its how we move through that world. Its how we move through this world.
Listen. This is important. We're onto something here. There are implications. And those kind of good things. No, no I mean it. Slow down, stop doing six things at once. You'll be a better player if you can trick yourself into remembering this. The only reason we forget is that we trick ourselves out of knowing it. Oh its a fine joke we play at together we boys and near boys and men who you'd think would know better... But that's not the point. The point is that this is knowledge that can be reclaimed.
You don't want to be a prisoner of your own device now do you?
To the people who say "its only a game." I say, well, of course. But different people have different things at stake as they play different games. Sometimes its "only" whatever it only is; the times I want to space out and relax. But most of the time I prefer to be giving whatever I'm doing my full attention, to throw myself into it as much as I can.
What is at stake is at the heart of the question of this interplay between fantasy and reality as we play our games. My own experiences might prove instructive.
I've been gaming since the mid 1970s. When playing paper and pencil Dungeons & Dragons, none of the dastardly deeds my evil characters committed ever bothered me. It wasn't "real" enough. We were robbing elves. But years later playing a science fiction based RPG, I remember actually feeling actual dismay at some of our crimes. It was too "real." At the time just a factoid about how my thoughts and emotions worked when I played games and nothing more revelatory than, say, the suspension of disbelief necessary to really get into a good novel or movie. In all honesty I would have to say that certain implications of this passed me by until June of 2011.
Because the suspension of disbelief necessary to read a novel or even watch a movie is not quite exactly precisely the same thing as the suspension of disbelief necessary to play a MMO. But its close enough to fool you even if you've done both, more often than not. Isn't that interesting? Funny too.
The difference between the two is that in an MMO you are making the story up as you go. The joys of reading or watching plays or movies simply do not include this component. That difference makes the MMO more "real." That means you will react to it, more often than not, as if it were more "real." The reason this matters is that this presents us with certain learning opportunities as well as opportunities for entertainment. That's what you can also use EVE for if you want to. To learn things you normally might not have the chance to learn though other media, including the medium of RL.
We players of EVE, who are writing and living this grand novel/movie/play/training simulation together should take note of this and use it to our advantage.
What's your take on it? Praxis Astra Master of Assassins and Punctuality http://heartsandmindsalliance.org |
Jim Era
2729
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Posted - 2012.09.11 23:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
wat |
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
920
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Posted - 2012.09.11 23:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Never go full re... ehm... Nyan |
Paul Oliver
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1864
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Posted - 2012.09.11 23:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
OP does have a point... how many of you have become so engrossed in a video game or a book or anything else that when you finally stopped you felt like you just unplugged from the matrix, then realized that it's now dark outside and five hours (or more) had passed?
It's kind of scary how easily the mind can become absorbed with these fantasy worlds. "Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must undergo the fatigues of supporting it." - Thomas Paine |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
878
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Posted - 2012.09.11 23:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
OP... I know you're excited and all... and I know the rush is awesome... but it's pill time. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
1074
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Posted - 2012.09.12 00:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
I know my hands are shaking when someone enters my bubble... or when I realize I'm in over my head and will probably loose my ship shortly... (the latter being more common than the former)
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James 315
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2712
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Posted - 2012.09.12 00:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
Praxis Astra wrote:I've been gaming since the mid 1970s. No way!
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ MinerBumping.com -½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½The daily saga of the New Order's quest to conquer all highsec by bumping miners out of range. |
Charles Baker
Estrale Frontiers Project Wildfire
289
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Posted - 2012.09.12 01:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
What garbage, closest i've got is Adrenaline jitters during combat. |
Pipa Porto
896
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Posted - 2012.09.12 01:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
I need to stop filling people's prescription bottles with pills taken from the shelf at random. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
stoicfaux
1570
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Posted - 2012.09.12 02:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
When I imagine the OP playing Eve, I see a visual of Enzyte Bob playing Eve... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghrWz7cVXv8#t=0m32s
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
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Sabrina Solette
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
98
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Posted - 2012.09.12 08:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
Slip between fantasy and reality? Well I don't, I stay firmly anchored in reality. |
ACE McFACE
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
819
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Posted - 2012.09.12 08:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sabrina Solette wrote:Slip between fantasy and reality? Well I don't, I stay firmly anchored in reality. Yes, because EVE is real "7 pages of people insulting me - aka trolling" - Lady Hofstedar What s/he (probobly he) meant: "7 pages of people disagreeing with my terrible idea - aka trolling" - Lady Hofstedar |
Xearal
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
376
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Posted - 2012.09.12 08:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
OP, welcome to a very select club of people who can actually see beyond what is, into what could be.
Yes, games aren't real, they are fantasy. But the only way to truly appreciate and enjoy them, is to toss out sensibility, toss out any notions like 'it's only a game', and jump down the rabbithole to see how deep it is. And when you climb out of it, you'll be a richer, fuller person than before.
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Sabrina Solette
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
98
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Posted - 2012.09.12 08:33:00 -
[14] - Quote
Xearal wrote:OP, welcome to a very select club of people who can actually see beyond what is, into what could be.
Yes, games aren't real, they are fantasy. But the only way to truly appreciate and enjoy them, is to toss out sensibility, toss out any notions like 'it's only a game', and jump down the rabbithole to see how deep it is. And when you climb out of it, you'll be a richer, fuller person than before.
Games are real, their programming is real enough, the interfaces are real enough. Games do not mimic reality well enough to be lost in them to fantasy, there's always markers reminding you that it's only a game.
But then reality is much better than fantasy any day of the week. As for fantasy makes you a richer fuller person, I'd say what a load of old tosh. |
Josef Djugashvilis
The Scope Gallente Federation
572
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Posted - 2012.09.12 13:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
The reality, is that I am really really bad at pvp.
The fantasy, is that I am good at pvp. You want fries with that? |
Kult Altol
Republican Industries Epsilon Fleet
66
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Posted - 2012.09.12 15:24:00 -
[16] - Quote
Here is some constructive criticism
TL;DR A narrow mind is a focused mind. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
1151
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Posted - 2012.09.12 15:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
Paul Oliver wrote:OP does have a point...
He does?
It sounded more like a long-winded, perhaps chemically enhanced, observation to me.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Xearal
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
379
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Posted - 2012.09.14 11:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sabrina Solette wrote:Xearal wrote:OP, welcome to a very select club of people who can actually see beyond what is, into what could be.
Yes, games aren't real, they are fantasy. But the only way to truly appreciate and enjoy them, is to toss out sensibility, toss out any notions like 'it's only a game', and jump down the rabbithole to see how deep it is. And when you climb out of it, you'll be a richer, fuller person than before.
Games are real, their programming is real enough, the interfaces are real enough. Games do not mimic reality well enough to be lost in them to fantasy, there's always markers reminding you that it's only a game. But then reality is much better than fantasy any day of the week. As for fantasy makes you a richer fuller person, I'd say what a load of old tosh.
I disagree, fantasy is a place where you can think of what could be, instead of what is. to jump into those depths, and experience it, teaches you not only to strive for more in reality, but also helps you learn the hows and whats you might need on achieving goals for yourself in real life.
A silly example: Eve trading is complicated, and very close to reality in many ways, learning how to analyse the market, manipulate it, work with it, and make good money doing so, would give you the nessescary mental tools to prepare you for doing the same thing in Real life commoditties brokering for instance. Yes, there are differences, but a 'veteran eve trader' would be better equipped to start doing RL commoditties brokering than somebody that simply decided, oh yeah, I'm going to do this.
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Karn Dulake
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
865
|
Posted - 2012.09.14 15:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
No other game gives me that pounding rush of adrenalin i get when i engage in soloish combat and it could swing either way.
when you are in an uncloaked ship in lowsec and all the gates are barred and the scanners are out (shake shake)
Note to OP. I cant steal from other players its just not in my nature.
But i will **** your girlfriend and punch you in the face (says the unaccountable internet warrior from the safety of his keyboard) I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion. |
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
92
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Posted - 2012.09.14 15:13:00 -
[20] - Quote
You were There. Gäó |
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Thomas Horan
EVE University Ivy League
6
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Posted - 2012.09.14 16:03:00 -
[21] - Quote
Wow why are there so many pricks on these forums? This guy took the time to write something interesting, something that you might actually have to think about to understand, something on a level above most of the normal forum-garbage and trolling, and 80% of people that respond say "Get back on your meds" or "TL;DR".
Seriously guys? I suppose many of the people who responded in this way aren't capable of comprehending anything that isn't black-and-white - it seems abstract concepts and language just goes right over your head. Maybe people are just ******* around, I sure hope so. The last thing the internet needs is another mean-hearted cesspool of a forum.
I personally think it's an interesting topic. Gaming to me is all about immersion - or to put it another way, escape. Of course, you can't lose perspective that you are still just playing a game, but the more the game sucks you into its world, the more you can connect to your avatar and relate to other characters in the game, the better. They offer a temporary refuge from the dull cubnicle-based existence many of use are confined to from 9 to 5.
MMO's are definitely unique in several ways - as you mentioned, the dialogue of the game, its politics and the big events - are not programmed or scripted in, per se. It all comes down to the interaction between players and between groups of players. For someone like me, who makes the majority of their in-game income trading, it becomes clear that you cannot easily predict what's going to happen, or how the markets are going to change, for example. There are so many human players that there are an infinite number of variables all interacting with each other at any given time.
Sometimes I do wish there was a bit more of a solid cannon of lore. For example, the Mass Effect series does an excellent job pulling you into the game-world. The locations are all unique, the different races are all interesting, and there is a backstory which influences in every way what is going to happen in the game. Since EVE relies almost completely on human players to create the story, sometimes I feel like it would be cooler if there were more developer-seeded events that would affect vast amounts of people. Incursions are an example of this. Maybe we could see more of the Jove, or political events within the different factions would have more bearing on players. Obviously this is easier said than done, but it's interesting to think about. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
1079
|
Posted - 2012.09.14 16:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
so... mad...
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IGNATIUS HOOD
Zephyr Corp Black Thorne Alliance
330
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Posted - 2012.09.14 19:12:00 -
[23] - Quote
Xearal wrote:OP, welcome to a very select club of people who can actually see beyond what is, into what could be.
Yes, games aren't real, they are fantasy. But the only way to truly appreciate and enjoy them, is to toss out sensibility, toss out any notions like 'it's only a game', and jump down the rabbithole to see how deep it is. And when you climb out of it, you'll be a richer, fuller person than before.
Could not have said it better. Heck the combat jitters I feel during PvP and the read, react, fight or flight reaction I go through sure seem pretty real. Whats odd is how its exactly the same regardless of if I'm in a T1 fit Punisher or a faction fit Legion.
Its that sensation, the feeling of true risk and matching wits against another person that keeps me excited. That and I enjoy creating, organizing, progressing, moving forward, becoming better, growing stronger, getting smarter, fighting more victoriusly and dying harder.
Ignatius Hood can be killed in this game. But you're going to have to work at it! "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."--H.L. Mencken |
IGNATIUS HOOD
Zephyr Corp Black Thorne Alliance
330
|
Posted - 2012.09.14 19:17:00 -
[24] - Quote
Thomas Horan wrote:Wow why are there so many pricks on these forums? This guy took the time to write something interesting, something that you might actually have to think about to understand, something on a level above most of the normal forum-garbage and trolling, and 80% of people that respond say "Get back on your meds" or "TL;DR".
Seriously guys? I suppose many of the people who responded in this way aren't capable of comprehending anything that isn't black-and-white - it seems abstract concepts and language just goes right over your head. Maybe people are just ******* around, I sure hope so. The last thing the internet needs is another mean-hearted cesspool of a forum.
I personally think it's an interesting topic. Gaming to me is all about immersion - or to put it another way, escape. Of course, you can't lose perspective that you are still just playing a game, but the more the game sucks you into its world, the more you can connect to your avatar and relate to other characters in the game, the better. They offer a temporary refuge from the dull cubnicle-based existence many of use are confined to from 9 to 5.
MMO's are definitely unique in several ways - as you mentioned, the dialogue of the game, its politics and the big events - are not programmed or scripted in, per se. It all comes down to the interaction between players and between groups of players. For someone like me, who makes the majority of their in-game income trading, it becomes clear that you cannot easily predict what's going to happen, or how the markets are going to change, for example. There are so many human players that there are an infinite number of variables all interacting with each other at any given time.
Sometimes I do wish there was a bit more of a solid cannon of lore. For example, the Mass Effect series does an excellent job pulling you into the game-world. The locations are all unique, the different races are all interesting, and there is a backstory which influences in every way what is going to happen in the game. Since EVE relies almost completely on human players to create the story, sometimes I feel like it would be cooler if there were more developer-seeded events that would affect vast amounts of people. Incursions are an example of this. Maybe we could see more of the Jove, or political events within the different factions would have more bearing on players. Obviously this is easier said than done, but it's interesting to think about.
People tear down as part of a never ending quest for acceptance. What they seem to be unable to grasp is that you will never truly find acceptance in life or in any of life's grand pursuits until you accept yourself as you are and not pine to be that which you can never be. Realize friends, you are a stupendous badass by simple genetics, and that is only magnified by the fact that you play the best MMO on the planet against the toughest collection of stupendous badasses ever assembled in one place. To cut out a niche in this universe, call it your own, and make what you want out of it is to be celebrated not torn down. OP's excitement should be applauded and encouraged. You were once what he is now, and someday, he will be you.
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."--H.L. Mencken |
Corwain
Tea And Sympathy Ltd. Liability Reckless Ambition
2
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Posted - 2012.09.14 19:57:00 -
[25] - Quote
The whole game is pretty trippy. The concept itself, especially when you take our reality and those of the Sleepers...
Then again reality is a lot like a dream...anyone ever read Otherland by Tad Williams? Ever seen 2012 and Eyes Wide Shut by Stanley Kubrick? Is there an underlying reality and is it this world or the world of story?
To me, my wife and a few friends and coworkers and the local music festival are my only ties to the other world.
EVE has been home for a long time...
And now I'm watching Hilary Clinton mention a fellow EVE player who got killed IRL by name. My life has truly been a dream come true, a freaking weird one.
Chizz |
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
92
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Posted - 2012.09.14 20:14:00 -
[26] - Quote
OP gets a D+. There are some good ideas in there but they lack proper organization and proper foundation. The dude is either high, or he never grajiated skool... |
Tyraeil Starblade
Ronin Wing
26
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Posted - 2012.09.14 20:17:00 -
[27] - Quote
Paul Oliver wrote:OP does have a point... how many of you have become so engrossed in a video game or a book or anything else that when you finally stopped you felt like you just unplugged from the matrix, then realized that it's now dark outside and five hours (or more) had passed?
It's kind of scary how easily the mind can become absorbed with these fantasy worlds.
A wirtual vorld within a wirtual vorld.
The Matrix, you're in it. |
Robert De'Arneth
29
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Posted - 2012.09.14 20:29:00 -
[28] - Quote
I can really feel the love in this thread!!
Good post OP!! |
Praxis Astra
Smiling Friends Social Club Stealth Syndicate
131
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Posted - 2012.09.14 22:53:00 -
[29] - Quote
The Technocrat: Management, Manipulation, Creation and Expansion of EVE Organizations
http://heartsandmindsalliance.org/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=4&id=71&Itemid=232 Praxis Astra Master of Assassins and Punctuality http://heartsandmindsalliance.org |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
552
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Posted - 2012.09.15 02:52:00 -
[30] - Quote
I don't think this game has ever had me actually ducking and weaving in my chair the way the old space sims used to. |
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