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alright Barviainen	Posted - 2011.06.20 01:20:00 - [1] I just lost a caracal to a dram. I had it fit to kill frigs and Im wondering what I did wrong. Any help would be great thanks. Here was my fit Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Invulnerability Field I Large Shield Extender II 10MN Afterburner I Assault Missile Launcher I Assault Missile Launcher I Assault Missile Launcher I Assault Missile Launcher I Assault Missile Launcher I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I All my missile skills are 3 or 4s I had him webbed and scrammed and was trying to pick off his drones as he launched them. I killed most of his drones, but I didn't even get him into armor before he got me. I have about 11k EHP as well. Please help. Thanks.
Nogunaba Agast	Posted - 2011.06.20 01:23:00 - [2] Edited by: Nogunaba Agast on 20/06/2011 01:23:51 Originally by: alright Barviainen Assault Missile Launcher I Assault Missile Launcher I Assault Missile Launcher I Assault Missile Launcher I Assault Missile Launcher I Found your problem. Edit: BOLD
alright Barviainen	Posted - 2011.06.20 01:40:00 - [3] Thanks im training to T2 right now actually. Is that the only thing tho?
alright Barviainen	Posted - 2011.06.20 01:56:00 - [4] basically if i upgrade those to T2 should I be able to handle a dram?
Alara IonStorm	Posted - 2011.06.20 02:03:00 - [5] Originally by: alright Barviainen basically if i upgrade those to T2 should I be able to handle a dram? You might wanna add a DCU to it as well. Make sure your Missile Skills, especially the Accruacy ones are at 4 and you probably wanna cover that EM Hole. I use 2 Large Sheild Extenders a Thrm Rig an EM Rig and a CDFE Rig with a DCU. This gives me about 25kEHP accross the board and the resist rigs are dirt cheap.
Frau Klaps Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2011.06.20 03:05:00 - [6] dual webs ~~~
Bad Messenger draketrain Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.06.20 04:32:00 - [7] Originally by: Alara IonStorm Originally by: alright Barviainen basically if i upgrade those to T2 should I be able to handle a dram? You might wanna add a DCU to it as well. Make sure your Missile Skills, especially the Accruacy ones are at 4 and you probably wanna cover that EM Hole. I use 2 Large Sheild Extenders a Thrm Rig an EM Rig and a CDFE Rig with a DCU. This gives me about 25kEHP accross the board and the resist rigs are dirt cheap. You do not want to lower more your dps by putting damage control, and EM hole is not a problem, more shield gives more recharge rate and works against any damage type. Dramiels are quite problematic because it is so fast that caracal usually have no chance to kill it before it escapes webs or not. So you can make a fit that forces dramiel to go away, but making fit that manages to kill experienced dramiel pilot may be hard to do. Following fit has been tested several times in militia fights and it can kill or force most of frigates to run, only frigates i would say are impossible to kill is dual rep vengeance and jaguar with dead space shield booster. Also some other frigs with massive active tank may be problem because caracal dps is so low. [Caracal, assault missile caracal] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Warp Disruptor II Invulnerability Field II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Warrior II x2
Pharos Pharos	Posted - 2011.06.20 04:46:00 - [8] Edited by: Pharos Pharos on 20/06/2011 04:55:50 What Frau said - fit another web, upgrade launchers to best named until you have t2. And when you're fighting the dram, shoot the Dramiel, NOT the drones. For a Dram they're supplemental dps, don't bother killing them. When engaging, wait to apply dual webs until it the Dram has settled into orbit so it has minimum speed and distance to use to burn off, hit approach, OH everything, watch the Dram run or die well before you do. And the fit above might be fine for general usage, but yours is much better for frigate hunting. edit because I'm dumb
Soldarius Caldari Northstar Cabal Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2011.06.20 04:53:00 - [9] Edited by: Soldarius on 20/06/2011 04:53:39 Frau and Nobunaga speak wisely: dual webs and T2 AMLs w/ Bloodclaw Precision missiles. Also you will need a MWD, otherwise he will simply outrun you, even while scrammed and double-webbed. The precision missiles are needed to get your explosion radius down to within the signature radius of the dramiel. If the dramiel has a MWD and a warp scrambler (they almost always do), he will be able to scram you back, thus deactivating your MWD, and allowing him to outrun you again. In that case, there is little that you can do and you should just take the opportunity to disengage. In general, you have about the same applied dps as the Dramiel if you are using precision bloodclaw missiles, a flare rig, and 2x Warrior IIs. But you have twice the tank with a Large Shield Extender, a medium core defense shield extender rig, and an Anti-EM rig. Since you really must fit double webs, scram, and MWD for dramiels, your only options to swap are tank items. A quick check on EFT shows that the LSE II gives far more EHP than an invulnerability field. I also recommend you try a Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst rig. They will increase your missiles' explosion velocity, thus increasing your applied damage vs fast targets. Rigor rigs are useless here as precision missiles are already good enough in that regard. So: BCS II x2 Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II x2 LSE II 10MN MWD II ASM II x5 w/ Bloodclaw Precision missiles Medium Core Defense Shield Extender Medium Anti-EM shield blah Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst 2x Warrior II drones This fit should enable you to take out a dual-propped MSE dramiel, not to mention most other frigates and destroyers. But it will diaf against anything cruiser sized or larger. Carry some CN Bloodclaws and Bloodclaw Rage ammo if you think you might be engaging something else. Originally by: Krutoj You dont have a supercapital? buy PLEX trade it for ISK, buy supers. Just like any other mmo you can use your RL to pimp your character out (or tank for that matter).
Pharos Pharos	Posted - 2011.06.20 04:59:00 - [10] IMO, fit an AB and don't use precisions. It's a dram, you will be scrammed, so an MWD is useless. Speed hit from precisions kills, use one rigor if you're feeling it, and either way CN missiles will hit well enough. You won't be able to keep up with the dram, but with dual webs and OH AB, you'll keep them pointed long enough to kill them in many cases.
Golden Xi	Posted - 2011.06.20 09:21:00 - [11] Originally by: Pharos Pharos And when you're fighting the dram, shoot the Dramiel, NOT the drones. Hes right, and this is probabaly why you lost.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2011.06.20 12:47:00 - [12] Originally by: Soldarius bad advice Don't use Precisions. With dual web on the Dramiel, Precisions will probably do less damage than CN, and you can't afford the loss of speed if the Dramiel makes a break for it. Don't use Flare, use Rigour. You cannot have too small a missile explosion radius. I'm not overly keen on the scrambler either. With dual webs, a MWDing Dramiel will be slow enough to keep tackled if you can run your MWD too - meaning the gap between scrambler and web range, and the MWD sig bloom helps your damage application too.
alright Barviainen	Posted - 2011.06.20 12:50:00 - [13] Thanks for the help everyone. Keep the tips coming!
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2011.06.20 12:56:00 - [14] Originally by: alright Barviainen Thanks for the help everyone. Keep the tips coming! Yeah, shoot him not his drones, go dual-web, use CN Bloodclaw, remember to overheat and simply train your skills - Target Navigation Prediction and Guided Missile Precision are important ones that you might have missed. There is no tougher frigate target for an AML Caracal than a Dramiel, so don't be too disheartened that you died. Oh, did you deploy your drones? Caracal only has 10 m3, but that's up to 40 DPS more. Even badly-skilled T1 Hobgoblins - or ECM drones - will help.
alright Barviainen	Posted - 2011.06.20 12:59:00 - [15] Originally by: Gypsio III Originally by: alright Barviainen Thanks for the help everyone. Keep the tips coming! Yeah, shoot him not his drones, go dual-web, use CN Bloodclaw, remember to overheat and simply train your skills - Target Navigation Prediction and Guided Missile Precision are important ones that you might have missed. There is no tougher frigate target for an AML Caracal than a Dramiel, so don't be too disheartened that you died. Oh, did you deploy your drones? Caracal only has 10 m3, but that's up to 40 DPS more. Even badly-skilled T1 Hobgoblins - or ECM drones - will help. I did not have drones on me at the time. Kicking myself for that. They will be poorly skilled, but I'll use them next time.
Dark Pangolin Caldari Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse	Posted - 2011.06.20 18:24:00 - [16] As everyone else has said, get your missile skills up and if you can not yet use T2 launchers use the best named ones you can afford, it really makes a difference. Go after the frig not the drones. And fill that EM hole. If I had to guess he was probably attacking you with EMP ammo and EATING your shields with 0 EM resistance... Here is a sample fit; [Caracal, Not G] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I SV-2000 Assault Missile Bay, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile SV-2000 Assault Missile Bay, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile SV-2000 Assault Missile Bay, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile SV-2000 Assault Missile Bay, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile SV-2000 Assault Missile Bay, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Warrior II x2
Indeterminacy Sick Tight BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2011.06.20 18:34:00 - [17] Originally by: Frau Klaps dual webs
NoLimit Soldier	Posted - 2011.06.20 21:32:00 - [18] Any decent dram pilot will escape from most of these fits. Here is what you do, it isn't hard: Drop 1 launcher, get a medium neut. Get better launchers and go dual webs. Use a scram, not a disruptor. Use a MWD and keep it overloaded. His point will drop from the neut and you can catch back up any distance gained. Your EHP is depressing, use a DC to make sure you survive the DPS/EHP race. Use hobs, they will track him now. Proof of concept I know it sound stupid but you know what the hardest ship to kill is? The one fitted solely to kill you.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:09:00 - [19] The most inportant thing is the dual webs. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
carrottyphoid	Posted - 2011.06.21 13:42:00 - [20] Originally by: NoLimit Soldier Any decent dram pilot will escape from most of these fits. Here is what you do, it isn't hard: Drop 1 launcher, get a medium neut. Get better launchers and go dual webs. Use a scram, not a disruptor. Use a MWD and keep it overloaded. His point will drop from the neut and you can catch back up any distance gained. Your EHP is depressing, use a DC to make sure you survive the DPS/EHP race. Use hobs, they will track him now. Proof of concept I know it sound stupid but you know what the hardest ship to kill is? The one fitted solely to kill you. Yeah that and. Estimated SP: 7,624,997 vs Estimated SP: 31,883,599
NoLimit Soldier	Posted - 2011.06.21 19:30:00 - [21] Edited by: NoLimit Soldier on 21/06/2011 19:31:30 Originally by: carrottyphoid Originally by: NoLimit Soldier Any decent dram pilot will escape from most of these fits. Here is what you do, it isn't hard: Drop 1 launcher, get a medium neut. Get better launchers and go dual webs. Use a scram, not a disruptor. Use a MWD and keep it overloaded. His point will drop from the neut and you can catch back up any distance gained. Your EHP is depressing, use a DC to make sure you survive the DPS/EHP race. Use hobs, they will track him now. Proof of concept I know it sound stupid but you know what the hardest ship to kill is? The one fitted solely to kill you. Yeah that and. Estimated SP: 7,624,997 vs Estimated SP: 31,883,599 Yea because SP counts for so much at the cruiser and frigate level He was over confident and went in to kill a ship designed to kill him. If he was smart he would have tested the waters at 9k first instead of burn in at 500. SP doesn't teach that.
William Cooly Sol Enterprises	Posted - 2011.06.21 19:35:00 - [22] Now, I'm by no means a missile expert here, but aren't HAMs pretty good on a Dram if you've slowed him down enough? As in, better than AMLs? - I troll stupid people.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2011.06.21 19:49:00 - [23] Originally by: William Cooly Now, I'm by no means a missile expert here, but aren't HAMs pretty good on a Dram if you've slowed him down enough? As in, better than AMLs? No.
MikeHuntHurtz	Posted - 2011.06.21 20:08:00 - [24] huh?
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2011.06.21 20:17:00 - [25] No: HAMs are not better than standard missile against a dramiel, no matter how much you slow it down.
Spawn d'Evil	Posted - 2011.06.22 12:01:00 - [26] I might be stating the obvious but do you have Thermodynamics yet? Get it to level 4 and overheat those launchers; his GTFO ability is high so you need to pile the damage on fast.

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