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For all the naysayers about lasers having recoil..

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Uninhabited Caldari Apocalypse Now.	Posted - 2011.06.21 16:44:00 - [1] Originally by: CCP Salvo I'd be amiss if I didn't at least touch on the subject of recoil. :) With the new animation system the turrets were built on, we of course were able to add recoil to nearly all the turrets. The initial thought was that laser weapons should not have recoil, but this made it quite hard to test when the turrets shifted from the "active" state into the "fire", as it was only late in the process that we could hook the firing effects up to the turrets (due to technical reasons). We needed to see the shift visually and without the effect, the recoil animation was the only option. Why not then remove it afterwards? Well, we came to like some of those recoil effects, and simply did not feel that the amount of work required to remove them outweighed our affinity for them. It seems that CCP Salvo.. sunglasses Stuck to his guns.
Zoroa Aulx-Gao	Posted - 2011.06.21 16:44:00 - [2] Inb4 space science debate.
impli Singularity. Talon Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.21 16:46:00 - [3] Originally by: Uninhabited Originally by: CCP Salvo I'd be amiss if I didn't at least touch on the subject of recoil. :) With the new animation system the turrets were built on, we of course were able to add recoil to nearly all the turrets. The initial thought was that laser weapons should not have recoil, but this made it quite hard to test when the turrets shifted from the "active" state into the "fire", as it was only late in the process that we could hook the firing effects up to the turrets (due to technical reasons). We needed to see the shift visually and without the effect, the recoil animation was the only option. Why not then remove it afterwards? Well, we came to like some of those recoil effects, and simply did not feel that the amount of work required to remove them outweighed our affinity for them. It seems that CCP Salvo.. sunglasses Stuck to his guns. I say lasers have recoil :D just to cool them down.. :P
OverlordY	Posted - 2011.06.21 16:46:00 - [4] I like the recoil, accurate or not, it goes with the game.
jfkthesecond Caldari	Posted - 2011.06.21 16:47:00 - [5] Edited by: jfkthesecond on 21/06/2011 16:55:42 Edited by: jfkthesecond on 21/06/2011 16:49:37 think of it as blowback from superheated coolant used to cool laser unit vented to space edit: grammar mistake ps lots of grammar police in here i see
Jim Luc Caldari Rule of Five Split Infinity.	Posted - 2011.06.21 16:48:00 - [6] Recoil just is more cool. Period. Explosions in space is also cool (yet not scientifically possible in a vacuum)
Mightylink Caldari New Haven Enterprises Celestial Imperative	Posted - 2011.06.21 16:48:00 - [7] Hmm... how about the turret recoils not because of force but it does it on its own to cool off faster, the recoil shifts the gun back to expend heat for a split second. I have no idea, just trying to bring order to chaos :P
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Eternal Evocations	Posted - 2011.06.21 16:49:00 - [8] Edited by: Mendolus on 21/06/2011 16:49:45 Here's an easy one, the lasers recoil to vent the insoluble gas used to cool the chamber the focus crystals are housed in, Case closed, next? Edit: WOW, at least four or five of us must have had our Einstein cornflakes this morning,
impli Singularity. Talon Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.21 16:49:00 - [9] Originally by: jfkthesecond think of it as blowback from superheated coolant used to cool laser unit vented from space agreed // there is no water cooling system .. the space is cold enuff .so it went back to cool the super upper laser down :D
Riddick Liddell	Posted - 2011.06.21 16:50:00 - [10] The recoil is from the capacitor discharge.

Abrazzar	Posted - 2011.06.21 16:52:00 - [11] Yay for piezoelectric capacitors! --------
Discrodia Gallente Symbiosis International Moose Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.21 16:52:00 - [12] Well, explosions can happen in space. Just no fire. If there's a large enough quantity of gas/explosive material/plasma it can ignite briefly and explode, just for not as long as in an atmosphere. Originally by: anonymous WE JUST DID SCIENCE!
Soden Rah Gallente EVE University Ivy League	Posted - 2011.06.21 16:52:00 - [13] Originally by: Jim Luc Recoil just is more cool. Period. Explosions in space is also cool (yet not scientifically possible in a vacuum) recoil is cooler, and at least scientifically plausible. Explosions are also cool. and absolutely possible in space/vacuum... why would you think they wouldn't be? As for OP, it's a backwards arse way of getting a cool effect but in this case the ends definitely justify the means. -------- By Grfmsv÷tn, Eyjafjallaj÷kull, Vatnaj÷kull, and Hekla itself... THIS is my sig. Support Optional CQ
Obsidian Hawk RONA Legion RONA Directorate	Posted - 2011.06.21 16:53:00 - [14] Why wouldnt they have recoil. Assume just for a moment that when you fire a laser with the activation cost of 95 GJ thats GIGA Joules (tachyon beam laser 2) , converts into 95,000,000,000 Watts per second. I don't care what anyone says but releasing that much energy out of the end of a barrel will definately cause some recoil.
Atticus Fynch Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.21 16:55:00 - [15] Originally by: Jim Luc Recoil just is more cool. Period. Explosions in space is also cool (yet not scientifically possible in a vacuum) Of course explosions are possible in space. Recently the US shot down an errant satellite while in orbit and yes, the thing exploded. Space is a vacuum with zero pressure. It's the perfect environment for explosions, so please explain your physics. _ _________ _ "You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view - until you climb into his skin and walk around in it."
Myfanwy Heimdal Caldari Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc	Posted - 2011.06.21 16:56:00 - [16] Well, it would release some form of energy for sure. And there would be one hell of a bang. And since it can't go anywhere in space then the shockwave would have to go into the ship. So, recoil could be one way of absorbing this energy before the laser turrets tear themselves off the ship.
stoicfaux Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.21 16:59:00 - [17] Never underestimate the power of Writer's Fiat and Cool Factor. ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
Atticus Fynch Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.21 17:00:00 - [18] Edited by: Atticus Fynch on 21/06/2011 17:03:22 The real question here is why do EVE lasers create visible beams? A true laser does not create a visible beam. It only becomes visible when passing thorough medium like smoke or fog. So in effect, what EVE has are not true lasers at all, but are just called that. With that argument, it is possible for this "beam" weapon to have recoil. _ _________ _ "You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view - until you climb into his skin and walk around in it."
Maplestone	Posted - 2011.06.21 17:00:00 - [19] Originally by: Zoroa Aulx-Gao Inb4 space science debate. Although photons don't have mass, they have momentum thanks to mass-energy equivilence. So a laser does have recoil, proportional to the energy released. However, lasers tend to be far more efficient at delivering damage per unit of mass/energy compared to using the kinetic energy of a slug, so the recoil would be far less than what you would intuitively expect from experience with firearms. This all said, the physics of inertia has never been Eve's strong suit - every time turning off thrusters causes a ship to slow down, I wince a little :) (That sums up everything that needs to be debated, doesn't it?)
Auferre	Posted - 2011.06.21 17:01:00 - [20] Originally by: jfkthesecond think of it as blowback from superheated coolant used to cool laser unit vented from space That works as an explanation. (Besides, I gave up on Eve physics matching real-universe physics in week two, when I stopped kvetching about constant thrust vs. constant velocity. Now I just make stuff, shoot stuff and watch the pretty lights.)

Soden Rah Gallente EVE University Ivy League	Posted - 2011.06.21 17:02:00 - [21] Originally by: Obsidian Hawk Why wouldnt they have recoil. Assume just for a moment that when you fire a laser with the activation cost of 95 GJ thats GIGA Joules (tachyon beam laser 2) , converts into 95,000,000,000 Watts per second. I don't care what anyone says but releasing that much energy out of the end of a barrel will definately cause some recoil. conversion factor is 1 newton requires 300 mega watts of laser power. -------- By Grfmsv÷tn, Eyjafjallaj÷kull, Vatnaj÷kull, and Hekla itself... THIS is my sig. Support Optional CQ
Miss Panky	Posted - 2011.06.21 17:03:00 - [22] Recoil is coooooooooooool. Science nerds are not
Soden Rah Gallente EVE University Ivy League	Posted - 2011.06.21 17:05:00 - [23] Originally by: Atticus Fynch The real question here is why do EVE lasers create visible beams? A true laser does not create a visible beam. It only becomes visible when passing thorough medium like smoke or fog. So in effect, what EVE has are not true lasers at all, but are just called that. With that argument, it is possible for this "beam" weapon to have recoil. we are flying space submarines and the light makes the water glow.... -------- By Grfmsv÷tn, Eyjafjallaj÷kull, Vatnaj÷kull, and Hekla itself... THIS is my sig. Support Optional CQ
Vauss Dutan Caldari Rock and Stone	Posted - 2011.06.21 17:06:00 - [24] Edited by: Vauss Dutan on 21/06/2011 17:07:16 .
jfkthesecond Caldari	Posted - 2011.06.21 17:08:00 - [25] Originally by: Soden Rah Originally by: Atticus Fynch The real question here is why do EVE lasers create visible beams? A true laser does not create a visible beam. It only becomes visible when passing thorough medium like smoke or fog. So in effect, what EVE has are not true lasers at all, but are just called that. With that argument, it is possible for this "beam" weapon to have recoil. we are flying space submarines and the light makes the water glow.... supported. now where is the like button?
Lara Dantreb New Horizons	Posted - 2011.06.21 17:09:00 - [26] Edited by: Lara Dantreb on 21/06/2011 17:09:55 Originally by: Obsidian Hawk Why wouldnt they have recoil. Assume just for a moment that when you fire a laser with the activation cost of 95 GJ thats GIGA Joules (tachyon beam laser 2) , converts into 95,000,000,000 Watts per second. I don't care what anyone says but releasing that much energy out of the end of a barrel will definately cause some recoil. 95 GJ of light at 0.5¦m wavelenght = 2.4x10^29 photons each photon has a proper impulsion of 10^-27 kg.m.s^-1 2.4x10^29*10^-27 = 2400 kg thrust, wich is not big but enough for recoil see solar wind or solar sail in wikipedia for details cheers
Obsidian Hawk RONA Legion RONA Directorate	Posted - 2011.06.21 17:10:00 - [27] Originally by: Atticus Fynch Edited by: Atticus Fynch on 21/06/2011 17:03:22 The real question here is why do EVE lasers create visible beams? A true laser does not create a visible beam. It only becomes visible when passing thorough medium like smoke or fog. So in effect, what EVE has are not true lasers at all, but are just called that. With that argument, it is possible for this "beam" weapon to have recoil. Well if you go with astrophysical theory that there is a lot of random 'dust' in space just all over the place, then that can explain visible lasers.
Dotanaski	Posted - 2011.06.21 17:11:00 - [28] So what does this recoil actually means, like tracking going down after each shot? \|o.o\|
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Eternal Evocations	Posted - 2011.06.21 17:12:00 - [29] Originally by: Atticus Fynch Edited by: Atticus Fynch on 21/06/2011 17:03:22 The real question here is why do EVE lasers create visible beams? A true laser does not create a visible beam. It only becomes visible when passing thorough medium like smoke or fog. So in effect, what EVE has are not true lasers at all, but are just called that. With that argument, it is possible for this "beam" weapon to have recoil. Capsule's on-board interface device interprets external data in the visible spectrum, don't you even know the slightest about the game's IP?
Atticus Fynch Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.21 17:13:00 - [30] Originally by: Obsidian Hawk Originally by: Atticus Fynch Edited by: Atticus Fynch on 21/06/2011 17:03:22 The real question here is why do EVE lasers create visible beams? A true laser does not create a visible beam. It only becomes visible when passing thorough medium like smoke or fog. So in effect, what EVE has are not true lasers at all, but are just called that. With that argument, it is possible for this "beam" weapon to have recoil. Well if you go with astrophysical theory that there is a lot of random 'dust' in space just all over the place, then that can explain visible lasers. Well then space must be really dusty to create such bright beams. Someone get the vacuum cleaner. BTW, lasers have been shot to the moon (in real life) and guess what...no beam was visible. _ _________ _ "You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view - until you climb into his skin and walk around in it."

Privateeralliance Sucks	Posted - 2011.06.21 17:15:00 - [31] It's eve online, not "recoils online"...put it in, it looks good :)
Heimdallofasgard APEX ARDENT COALITION C0NVICTED	Posted - 2011.06.21 17:15:00 - [32] Originally by: Lara Dantreb Edited by: Lara Dantreb on 21/06/2011 17:09:55 Originally by: Obsidian Hawk Why wouldnt they have recoil. Assume just for a moment that when you fire a laser with the activation cost of 95 GJ thats GIGA Joules (tachyon beam laser 2) , converts into 95,000,000,000 Watts per second. I don't care what anyone says but releasing that much energy out of the end of a barrel will definately cause some recoil. 95 GJ of light at 0.5¦m wavelenght = 2.4x10^29 photons each photon has a proper impulsion of 10^-27 kg.m.s^-1 2.4x10^29*10^-27 = 2400 kg thrust, wich is not big but enough for recoil see solar wind or solar sail in wikipedia for details cheers Indeed, Laser = Light, Light = Photons, Photons have momentum, Ejecting from end of barrel = Pushing back on the barrel. 2400kg of thrust is definitely not insignificant on a turret. especially as it's an impulsive force. -------
Maplestone	Posted - 2011.06.21 17:17:00 - [33] Originally by: Mendolus Capsule's on-board interface device interprets external data in the visible spectrum, don't you even know the slightest about the game's IP? Proof: I can turn off display of lasers in the graphics settings :)
Atticus Fynch Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.21 17:22:00 - [34] Check this out: http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/8/2010/09/telescope-laser-milky-way-100915-02.jpg This laser is visible because of the exposure setting for this shot. (Which is why the whole Milky Way is so damn bright in the background) But normally, the beam would not be visible to the naked eye. _ _________ _ "You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view - until you climb into his skin and walk around in it."
Obsidian Hawk RONA Legion RONA Directorate	Posted - 2011.06.21 17:24:00 - [35] Edited by: Obsidian Hawk on 21/06/2011 17:24:26 Originally by: Atticus Fynch Edited by: Atticus Fynch on 21/06/2011 17:15:20 Originally by: Obsidian Hawk Originally by: Atticus Fynch Edited by: Atticus Fynch on 21/06/2011 17:03:22 The real question here is why do EVE lasers create visible beams? A true laser does not create a visible beam. It only becomes visible when passing thorough medium like smoke or fog. So in effect, what EVE has are not true lasers at all, but are just called that. With that argument, it is possible for this "beam" weapon to have recoil. Well if you go with astrophysical theory that there is a lot of random 'dust' in space just all over the place, then that can explain visible lasers. Well then space must be really dusty to create such bright beams. Someone get the vacuum cleaner. BTW, lasers have been shot to the moon (in real life) and guess what...no beam was visible. Originally by: Mendolus Capsule's on-board interface device interprets external data in the visible spectrum, don't you even know the slightest about the game's IP? Then I should appear while cloaked...after all, I'm still visible in local chat, right? space is dusty definately dusty especially if we have huge dark spots where the center of the galaxy is. OH I could contend. light is a wave and not a particle. Light when tested in various way exhibits behavior reminiscent of wave emissions and not particle emissions.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Eternal Evocations	Posted - 2011.06.21 17:25:00 - [36] Originally by: Atticus Fynch Then I should appear while cloaked...after all, I'm still visible in local chat, right? They can do and say whatever they bloody well want with the game environment because it is fiction, and they wrote it, capice? It is really not that hard to understand.
Thoraxe Rig Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.21 17:37:00 - [37] Originally by: Lara Dantreb Edited by: Lara Dantreb on 21/06/2011 17:09:55 Originally by: Obsidian Hawk Why wouldnt they have recoil. Assume just for a moment that when you fire a laser with the activation cost of 95 GJ thats GIGA Joules (tachyon beam laser 2) , converts into 95,000,000,000 Watts per second. I don't care what anyone says but releasing that much energy out of the end of a barrel will definately cause some recoil. 95 GJ of light at 0.5¦m wavelenght = 2.4x10^29 photons each photon has a proper impulsion of 10^-27 kg.m.s^-1 2.4x10^29*10^-27 = 2400 kg thrust, wich is not big but enough for recoil see solar wind or solar sail in wikipedia for details cheers I... I love this. The end is in sight.
Feralloki Arnerette	Posted - 2011.06.21 18:29:00 - [38] As I read this thread, I have to believe that my physics professor is one of you on these forums. That being said, I have the answer to all your questions about recoil. It's a game. The end. (DAM I'M GOOD)
noldevin	Posted - 2011.06.21 18:43:00 - [39] Originally by: Atticus Fynch Then I should appear while cloaked...after all, I'm still visible in local chat, right? No, because cloaking devices likely jam or distort so that your ship cannot be displayed even if their electronics wanted to try it.
I Accidentally YourShip	Posted - 2011.06.21 19:14:00 - [40] Originally by: Obsidian Hawk Edited by: Obsidian Hawk on 21/06/2011 17:24:26 OH I could contend. light is a wave and not a particle. Light when tested in various way exhibits behavior reminiscent of wave emissions and not particle emissions. Incorrect, my good man, light is a particle (photon) that propagates through space as a wave. It is a particle that exhibits wave-particle duality behaviour. All electromagnetic energy is carried by photons (which are an elementary particle, a boson if you are interested) and the type of energy is based on the frequency of the wave that the photon travels in. It's hard to grasp that a photon is a particle even though it has no mass however it CAN have mass in some special cases. I believe when they slowed light down to a fraction of c it exhibited mass but don't quote me on that one.

GavinCapacitor	Posted - 2011.06.21 19:16:00 - [41] For what its worth light does have momentum, but no mass, if I recall my high school physics correctly. It why light can go light speed but solar sails still work. Also, eve is ghost submarines. Think about it. 1.) resistance - ships have max speed / engine must be on to maintain speed 2.) no collision 3.) lasers have a visible beam.
Herping yourDerp	Posted - 2011.06.21 19:17:00 - [42] fire laser. center flys back to cool in space goes back fire laser repeat.
Atticus Fynch Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.21 19:19:00 - [43] For all those saying "it's a game" you are playing this thread all wrong. It's an immersion debate about the lack of reality of EVE lasers/recoil and justifying it somehow. _ _________ _ "You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view - until you climb into his skin and walk around in it."
ry ry Heroes. Merciless.	Posted - 2011.06.21 19:21:00 - [44] if it's good enough for star 'sound travels in space' wars it's good enough for eve 'sound also travels in space' online. also, i'm your father.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Eternal Evocations	Posted - 2011.06.21 19:23:00 - [45] Originally by: GavinCapacitor lasers have a visible beam. What about 'your capsule has no windows and an on-board device translates external data to the visible light spectrum for you' do you sorry ___s not understand? Have you never heard of night vision, thermal imaging, x-ray machines? FFS there's an endless list of these devices used in the real world to help medical practitioners make sense of data they cannot 'see' in the visible light spectrum. You are floating around space in a sealed egg with no windows, of course the on-board computer is going to interpret data outside the visible spectrum in a way you can understand and make sense of it, are you all really this dense?
Malcheus	Posted - 2011.06.21 19:32:00 - [46] first off, if the recoil is to cool down the laser, can I make my lasers go up an down all the time to cool them down faster? Secondly; what's the point of recoil of something in space anyways? everything is weightless, so should the ship not fly equally fast in the other direction alltogether, instead of just the barrel of the gun? Looking at it from another perspective; the gun shoots, the barrel moves backwards. then the barrel is slowed down, at this point it transfers its energy to its base, the ship. Since the ship is weightless, this energy should be converted into a lot of forward energy for the ship in the opposite direction. Same goes for the energy transferred between the gun and the projectile, which should also be converted into movement of the ship. I'm not a physics expert, but shouldn't it work a bit like this?
Lara Dantreb New Horizons	Posted - 2011.06.21 19:39:00 - [47] Originally by: Malcheus first off, if the recoil is to cool down the laser, can I make my lasers go up an down all the time to cool them down faster? Secondly; what's the point of recoil of something in space anyways? everything is weightless, so should the ship not fly equally fast in the other direction alltogether, instead of just the barrel of the gun? Looking at it from another perspective; the gun shoots, the barrel moves backwards. then the barrel is slowed down, at this point it transfers its energy to its base, the ship. Since the ship is weightless, this energy should be converted into a lot of forward energy for the ship in the opposite direction. Same goes for the energy transferred between the gun and the projectile, which should also be converted into movement of the ship. I'm not a physics expert, but shouldn't it work a bit like this? You make a mistake between weight, mass and inertia. Thus you are wrong, sorry
E man Industries	Posted - 2011.06.21 19:42:00 - [48] this falls under the rule of coolRule of cool ______ Hello WoW players. Look at your toon, now back to me. Sadly it isn't me, but if it wasn't simplistic pre scripted linear mono dimensional game you could look like me. I'm in a Paladin
brutorans Minmatar V I R I I Merciless.	Posted - 2011.06.21 19:47:00 - [49] Originally by: Jim Luc Recoil just is more cool. Period. Explosions in space is also cool (yet not scientifically possible in a vacuum) space is not a true vacuum, there's loads of stuff out there. Explosions can occur, but your looking more toward the ignition of solid cryogenic fuel in space (see Apollo 11). Puncture a fuel cell in space with an inert round (IE a titanium sabot/splinter or structural component) fuels could mix without a source of ignition and freeze when expelled in to the hard cold of space. Run a laz0r over it or some other source of ignition (microwave, plasma etc) and you get a bang (if anything a large one due to the almost negligible levels of surrounding pressure out there. however i still think PL fleets should indicate the ingredients, calorie content and number of servings.
Maplestone	Posted - 2011.06.21 19:47:00 - [50] Originally by: Malcheus Secondly; what's the point of recoil of something in space anyways? everything is weightless, so should the ship not fly equally fast in the other direction alltogether, instead of just the barrel of the gun? Yes, but if the guns are not lined up with the ship's center of mass, a fraction of of the recoil energy would go into making it spin rather than fly back. The same logic also applies to the ship being hit - it receives on impact all the momentum that the firing ship suffered in recoil, which would knock it about too. Of course, inertial stablizer technology magically neutralizes a lot of these effects. I figure that New Eden is filled with dark matter phlogiston that drags on a lot of the grav tech.

Erim Solfara Amarr inFluX.	Posted - 2011.06.21 20:22:00 - [51] If they have left laser recoil in, I'm pretty miffed about that. So much for being the 'ultimate sci-fi simulator', when they can't even get the basics right. INB4 anyone tells me lasers DO have recoil, run the numbers, it's meaningless (hint, 640N of force from a half second 95GJ burst).
Bob TheSecond Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.21 20:27:00 - [52] INB4 Nerds debate about this for 2 pages...
Lara Dantreb New Horizons	Posted - 2011.06.21 21:02:00 - [53] Originally by: Erim Solfara If they have left laser recoil in, I'm pretty miffed about that. So much for being the 'ultimate sci-fi simulator', when they can't even get the basics right. INB4 anyone tells me lasers DO have recoil, run the numbers, it's meaningless (hint, 640N of force from a half second 95GJ burst). Lasers are used to produce ultra-cold atoms in bose-einstein condensates : their photons actually exert a force on these atoms to stop the thermic motion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultracold_atom
Erim Solfara Amarr inFluX.	Posted - 2011.06.21 21:33:00 - [54] Originally by: Lara Dantreb Originally by: Erim Solfara If they have left laser recoil in, I'm pretty miffed about that. So much for being the 'ultimate sci-fi simulator', when they can't even get the basics right. INB4 anyone tells me lasers DO have recoil, run the numbers, it's meaningless (hint, 640N of force from a half second 95GJ burst). Lasers are used to produce ultra-cold atoms in bose-einstein condensates : their photons actually exert a force on these atoms to stop the thermic motion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultracold_atom Yes, laser cooling, bose-einstein condensates, etc. Nothing to do with this topic though!
Lara Dantreb New Horizons	Posted - 2011.06.21 21:50:00 - [55] Originally by: Erim Solfara Originally by: Lara Dantreb Originally by: Erim Solfara If they have left laser recoil in, I'm pretty miffed about that. So much for being the 'ultimate sci-fi simulator', when they can't even get the basics right. INB4 anyone tells me lasers DO have recoil, run the numbers, it's meaningless (hint, 640N of force from a half second 95GJ burst). Lasers are used to produce ultra-cold atoms in bose-einstein condensates : their photons actually exert a force on these atoms to stop the thermic motion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultracold_atom Yes, laser cooling, bose-einstein condensates, etc. Nothing to do with this topic though! This topic is about lasers and recoils. Lasers actually have recoil and this topic has his ignorant troll now
Erim Solfara Amarr inFluX.	Posted - 2011.06.21 22:13:00 - [56] Originally by: Lara Dantreb Edited by: Lara Dantreb on 21/06/2011 22:05:43 Originally by: Erim Solfara Originally by: Lara Dantreb Originally by: Erim Solfara If they have left laser recoil in, I'm pretty miffed about that. So much for being the 'ultimate sci-fi simulator', when they can't even get the basics right. INB4 anyone tells me lasers DO have recoil, run the numbers, it's meaningless (hint, 640N of force from a half second 95GJ burst). Lasers are used to produce ultra-cold atoms in bose-einstein condensates : their photons actually exert a force on these atoms to stop the thermic motion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultracold_atom Yes, laser cooling, bose-einstein condensates, etc. Nothing to do with this topic though! This topic is about lasers and recoils. Lasers actually have recoil and this topic has his ignorant troll now edit : hint : Conservation of linear momentum Did you not see the part where I said lasers do have recoil, but the numbers are pretty much irrelevant? I even bothered working it out to be sure, so don't you conversation-of-linear-momentum me!
Child Pork	Posted - 2011.06.21 22:17:00 - [57] Edited by: Child Pork on 21/06/2011 22:16:47 Originally by: Atticus Fynch The real question here is why do EVE lasers create visible beams? So the game isn't totally balls?
Soden Rah Gallente EVE University Ivy League	Posted - 2011.06.21 22:24:00 - [58] Originally by: Bob TheSecond INB4 Nerds debate about this for 2 pages... nah you can't have a proper nerd rage in only two pages... last time we went for 10 -------- By Grfmsv÷tn, Eyjafjallaj÷kull, Vatnaj÷kull, and Hekla itself... THIS is my sig. Support Optional CQ
Aglais Caldari	Posted - 2011.06.21 22:24:00 - [59] Technically you shouldn't even be able to see the beams the turrets emit. I try to justify the turrets having recoil in the sense that it gives the capsuleer a potentially tactile response to having fired their gun. Or something.
De'Veldrin Minmatar Norse'Storm Battle Group Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2011.06.21 22:30:00 - [60] Originally by: Atticus Fynch Edited by: Atticus Fynch on 21/06/2011 17:03:22 The real question here is why do EVE lasers create visible beams? A true laser does not create a visible beam. It only becomes visible when passing thorough medium like smoke or fog. So in effect, what EVE has are not true lasers at all, but are just called that. With that argument, it is possible for this "beam" weapon to have recoil. No visible light lasers you say? --Vel Originally by: Blacksquirrel This is EVE. PVE can happen anywhere at anytime. Be prepared.

Lara Dantreb New Horizons	Posted - 2011.06.21 22:34:00 - [61] Edited by: Lara Dantreb on 21/06/2011 22:37:50 Originally by: Erim Solfara .../... Did you not see the part where I said lasers do have recoil, but the numbers are pretty much irrelevant? I even bothered working it out to be sure, so don't you conversation-of-linear-momentum me! Your 640N is wrong, it's 24000 N see post above. (assuming that 1 kgf = 10 N) which is much more relevant number I have fun posting in nerd topics since all other topics are rant/whine/complaints topics of unlimited boredom...
Erim Solfara Amarr inFluX.	Posted - 2011.06.21 22:46:00 - [62] I'm not sure I can be bothered for us to start showing actual calculations in this thread, your number seems grossly optimistic to me though.
Soden Rah Gallente EVE University Ivy League	Posted - 2011.06.21 23:15:00 - [63] the basic math which works for us is that appx 300MW gives 1 Newton force. so take energy consumption of laser (in Jules), multiply by efficiency factor (0.65 is a good number), divide by duration (in seconds), and then divide by 300 million, to get beam recoil force in newtons. working backwards, a 24,000N force would require 7,200 GW of laser power. With efficiency of 65% (free electron laser theoretical max) you need to put appx 11,077 GW input power. If the laser takes 95 GJ to activate then this an be achieved by having a sub second beam duration, which is physically sensible. the total impulse for a 95 GJ laser with 65% efficiency will be appx 206 N/s or a kick big enough to throw the average person backwards at about 2~4 m/s. Note that as the duration of the impulse is assumed to be sub second in duration giving an ave force acting of 24,000N, if you were holding a laser gun capable of firing that much energy you would not only be thrown backwards at several meters per sec, but most of your bones would be broken as well.... Although the 33.25 GJ of waste heat your laser is putting out would probably be a bigger concern... at those kinds of forces, its possible that the fragile mirrors might want to be cushioned, thus causing the turret to recoil, however the main structure would be able to absorb it without recoiling no problem. Cooling causing the recoil doesn't make much sense as you want to radiate away as much heat as possible and retracting the turret reduces your surface area. If your venting coolant in an open gas system (which would be much less efficient than the free electron laser I used for this example.) you would not vent it out the end of your turret for fear of damaging your optics, and destabilising your turrets aim. Its not caused by pressure contraction due to venting coolant as the outside pressure is always zero. If you are retracting it in so you can use conduction cooling then it should stay recoiled until just before firing the next shot to maximise cooling. Basically you are stuck with fragile mirrors/optics and/or it looks cool... -------- By Grfmsv÷tn, Eyjafjallaj÷kull, Vatnaj÷kull, and Hekla itself... THIS is my sig. Support Optional CQ


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