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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.06.21 22:17:00 -
[1]
Long range Minmatar projectiles (artillery) received a massive boost in alpha, but no corresponding decrease in dps. This, along with the fact that projectiles use no cap and have selectable damage have made railguns obsolete since nearly every other stat is on par with rails.
Example: 720mm artillery has 2.9 times the alpha of 250mm railguns but only 1% less dps. WHAT??!!!
Since their alpha is so much greater than any other long range turret, artillery dps should be correspondingly nerfed. These should be one shot weapons systems designed to rip through active tanks. They should not perform equally well at grinding through large buffer tanks.
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Rented
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Posted - 2011.06.21 22:20:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Rented on 21/06/2011 22:20:11
I too support nerfing other random things down to the crappiness of railguns, the worst weapons in the game.
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.06.21 22:22:00 -
[3]
Artillery would still maintain their role of pure alpha machines.
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Rented
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Posted - 2011.06.21 22:27:00 -
[4]
/facepalm
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Kamikaze jihawt
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Posted - 2011.06.21 22:48:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: X Gallentius
Long range Minmatar projectiles (artillery) received a massive boost in alpha, but no corresponding decrease in dps. This, along with the fact that projectiles use no cap and have selectable damage have made railguns obsolete since nearly every other stat is on par with rails.
Example: 720mm artillery has 2.9 times the alpha of 250mm railguns but only 1% less dps. WHAT??!!!
Since their alpha is so much greater than any other long range turret, artillery dps should be correspondingly nerfed. These should be one shot weapons systems designed to rip through active tanks. They should not perform equally well at grinding through large buffer tanks.
You are an idiot, and there will be a fix for hybrids coming up in the future I believe, not sure when.
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Maraleith
Gallente
Metalstorm Inc.
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Posted - 2011.06.21 22:59:00 -
[6]
Um, you have destroyed your own argument by stating that 720mm artillery does 2.9 times the alpha of 250mm railguns but only 1% less dps. That's balanced, mate as DPS is nearly the same but alpha is the difference between the pair.
By the way, love the fact your whining about the Minnie boost that only just makes their DPS fractionally above railguns. That means for yonks their dps was less than yours.
The issue is not with railguns if dps is marginal. The real issue is that now that scrams shut down mwd's, blaster boats die in a fire before they can reach their target. That is what happened time and again in real pvp and the Alliance jokeument.
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.06.21 23:08:00 -
[7]
Very minor 1% less dps does not compare to a massive factor of 2.9 increase in alpha.
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Mars Theran
Caldari
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.22 07:01:00 -
[8]
Originally by: X Gallentius
Very minor 1% less dps does not compare to a massive factor of 2.9 increase in alpha.
So, if anything, decrease the alpha and keep the rate of fire. But then they wouldn't be 720's would they?
720/250 = 2.88 if you haven't calculated that already.
Here's how it works: Big shell, good range, lots of damage, slow reload and fire. Small shell, okay damage, fast reload and fire.
..and no, I'm not trolling you; just pointing that out in case you missed it. Doesn't make it right, but needs to be pointed out anyway. Rails suck because they shoot super fast and do no damage, wasting ammunition quite quickly while they're at it. Artillery has a sweet alpha, but is so.damn.slow.
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Amaldor Themodius
Psykotic Meat
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Posted - 2011.06.22 07:29:00 -
[9]
pretty dumb discussion thread ... artillery is balanced.you seem to be arguing all guns should do same alpha, dps etc.. dumb.. whent the rebalance of artillery occurred some time back ccp lookedat balancing all elemnts not just alpha strikes.. so the good news is everything is performing as intended..
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Juliette DuBois
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Posted - 2011.06.22 08:14:00 -
[10]
OP actually has some merit but it is more due to railguns being pretty sucky and extreme range being bit useless at the moment due to fast probing.
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.06.22 11:58:00 -
[11]
Even without probing artillery owns rails. BCs never fire outside of 150 km.
Same dps, artillery never caps out, selectable damage type, and HUGE alpha advantage. What's the downside to artillery?
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Danika Princip
Minmatar
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.06.22 12:29:00 -
[12]
Originally by: X Gallentius
Even without probing artillery owns rails. BCs never fire outside of 150 km.
Same dps, artillery never caps out, selectable damage type, and HUGE alpha advantage. What's the downside to artillery?
The incredibly slow rate of fire that gives reps plenty of chance to kick in for one thing
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
Hikivirta
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.06.22 12:46:00 -
[13]
big picture here is huge alpha on artillery which totally ****s anything without some buffer
go figure what's wrong
im pretty sure there's plenty of people who think instapopping stuff, even without bonused ship is fine, though.
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.06.22 13:07:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Danika Princip
The incredibly slow rate of fire that gives reps plenty of chance to kick in for one thing
False. Putting out same dps as rails means at best reps work equally well against both. (Artillery puts out more damage over time because it can select damage types and it takes a long time for an insignificant 1% dps advantage to overcome damage from alpha shot - usually longer than it takes for rail to cap out).
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.06.22 13:26:00 -
[15]
Edited by: X Gallentius on 22/06/2011 13:29:44
Originally by: Mars Theran
..and no, I'm not trolling you; just pointing that out in case you missed it. Doesn't make it right, but needs to be pointed out anyway. Rails suck because they shoot super fast and do no damage, wasting ammunition quite quickly while they're at it. Artillery has a sweet alpha, but is so.damn.slow.
It takes well over two times the number of rail boats to alpha a target than artillery boats. It should therefore take more than 1.01 as many artillery boats to grind through a buffer tank than rail boats.
Rails also suck because they run the risk of capping out. And good point about ammo reload taking time away from rail dps for longer fights as well.
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Amaldor Themodius
Psykotic Meat
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Posted - 2011.06.22 13:30:00 -
[16]
Well something has to be best and if artillery is that something then so be it... I dont see it as a point to whine over (and Im not neccessarily certain it is the best).. In every class of module in the game there is a best item and a worst item dependant on what you are trying to do. The way artillery works in game now is a feature that makes it distinctive from other weapon types. High alpha slow cycle time and pretty poor tracking its not over powered. If you find yourself dying continuously to artillery vessels then its more than likely pilot error. IE putting yourself in the presence of a hostile gang with poor intel, or a failure to establish transversal, or getting tackled / imobilised or just plain old fail fittings on the vessel u r flying.
Certainly i do agree Galente need some love as the game balance over time has left them deprived in some areas specifically rails, blasters and some of their ships / bonuses. If the intent of the topic was to highlight that then perhaps the topic should have been GALENTE LOVE WANTED instead of the OMG NERF ARTY approach.
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.06.22 13:34:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Amaldor Themodius
.. In every class of module in the game there is a best item and a worst item dependant on what you are trying to do.
There is no downside to artillery compared to rails.
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Naomi Knight
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.22 13:57:00 -
[18]
imho boost hybrids+hybrid ships first then compare the 3 turret types
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Danika Princip
Minmatar
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.06.22 19:53:00 -
[19]
Originally by: X Gallentius
Edited by: X Gallentius on 22/06/2011 13:55:29
Originally by: Amaldor Themodius
.. In every class of module in the game there is a best item and a worst item dependant on what you are trying to do.
There is no downside to artillery compared to rails.
Edit: For the nitpickers - Artillery is better than railguns in 19/20 engagement scenarios.
lasers ans missiles are also better than hybrids in 19/20 engagement scenarios.
Perhaps, as the above poster already said, the answer is to buff hybrids rather than nerf everything else?
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