Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
TZeer
BURN EDEN
|
Posted - 2011.06.22 19:30:00 -
[1]
After the last patch/Incarna, unprobable ships is no longer possible. Not a big issue by itself.
But when you combine sniping tactics with the speed you get scan results, the whole tactic falls short.
Old Times: For those who remember the old scan/probe system, when you saw a probe on scan before, you knew you had 30 sec before they had a result on you. Enough to do hit and run tactics.
Now: If you know what you are doing, you will get a result on someone even before the ship itself has completely come out of warp. Which means it will be suicidal to even try. And for info, no you wont need full virtue set or max skill's to do it. Tried and tested.
So how can CCP bring back sniping as a viable tactic?
A few suggestions:
- As long as your ship has not excited warp, you should not get a warpable hit with the scan-probes, because of interference from warp. Not a fix in itself.
- Longer then 5 sec to get a result. 5 sec is simply to short.
- Add a second mechanic, one that adjusts the time it takes to scan, based on the sig radius and sensor strength. Better ratio = Longer scan time
The simplest would be just increasing the scan time. But of course differentiate between scanning for ships and scanning for plex, missions whatever. That could still be 5 sec. But getting result on a ship piloted by a player should be somewhat higher. The way it is now, sniping is not an option.
|
Prime Switch
|
Posted - 2011.06.22 19:39:00 -
[2]
I'm confused. What does scanning and probing have to do with hitting targets at range?
|
Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.06.22 23:57:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Prime Switch I'm confused. What does scanning and probing have to do with hitting targets at range?
It prober make it far too easy to warp a fleet on top of the sniper.
Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
|
Halbert Vector
|
Posted - 2011.06.23 00:16:00 -
[4]
Quote: - As long as your ship has not excited warp, you should not get a warpable hit with the scan-probes, because of interference from warp. Not a fix in itself.
Why is this not a fix? As long as warp "interfered" at the beginning of the scan cycle this would allow hit and run tactics to proceed just fine. 5 seconds to scan you down plus 5 seconds safe estimate for people managing to warp to you is ten seconds, long enough to align almost any ship with a microwarpdrive
|
TZeer
BURN EDEN
|
Posted - 2011.06.23 10:42:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Halbert Vector
Quote: - As long as your ship has not excited warp, you should not get a warpable hit with the scan-probes, because of interference from warp. Not a fix in itself.
Why is this not a fix? As long as warp "interfered" at the beginning of the scan cycle this would allow hit and run tactics to proceed just fine. 5 seconds to scan you down plus 5 seconds safe estimate for people managing to warp to you is ten seconds, long enough to align almost any ship with a microwarpdrive
I guess.
Anything is better then what we have now.
Fun side-effect of this recent change is that any ship can work as a reliable scanner against hostile ships now. No need to use a dedicated probing ship in your gang, unless you are going after unprobable setups.
|
Vengeance Thirst
|
Posted - 2011.06.23 11:16:00 -
[6]
How About you just warp to the enemy fleet at different ss's. Under the warp range like lets say 140k. than even if they do scan you they wont be able to warp in. you will have time to shot 1 or 2 frigs out while you align to the next ss on oposite side of the fleet... and so on. For this they will have to have out of grid tacklers or at least in warp range to you in position to catch you which they wont if its a surprise attack on a enemy gate camp or a passing fleet.
I Like solo snipping on enemy fleets they're many so they like to be confident on their numbers ... thous do mistakes, but best results are not on 200-250 k away shots but on the ones at 100-150 there you can use low range ammo with huge alpha and there's little chance of getting warped to from someone inside the field.
How I do it is:
1) Get a inti make ss's around the gate / station / place where enemy will/might be (on opposite sides of the target area in warp range to eachother). 1.a) Make sure you rename the ss's so you can remember where they are on the grid.( I use the sun alignment as 0 than clock wise 1.2.3.4 than Up Down for the 2 ss's at the top and bottom). 1.b) Move the book marks in bookmark folder than before the engagement open the group window so you have the bm's on your screen at all time. (saves you right click and browsing through the bm list... precious seconds)
2) When fight is on simply warp to the first bm. 2.a) Once you land on the field dont do anything before aligning to the second bm. 2.b) Once the ship starts to align immediately start targeting small frig / desy size ships. and I mean all of them. 2.c) Look in overview at speed who ever has mwd on and which way they head make decision and pop it to them.
3) At this time the others are about 50-70k away and you're fully aligned so warp to the ss2 and target those that were coming for you they should be 50 or so out of your 100k optimal so mid size ammo and so on.
From experience I can tell you that with a proper fitted ship you have the time to target and fire... hopefully kill 1 frigate at 100-150km.
4) keep playing with the ss's till you're happy with the results than warp out and dont come back in. At this point depending on fc they might try and spread out on the direction of ss's to wait for you or they have tacklers out of grid waiting for scan results.
I dont think nerfing scanning, or w/e, will give better snipping tactics. I do think people want things to be simple warp in-kill-warp out... with little or no extra effort.
Ive done the solo sniper thing for some time now and it takes preparation to do it right and thats how I like it :).
|
TZeer
BURN EDEN
|
Posted - 2011.06.23 11:49:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Vengeance Thirst How About you just warp to the enemy fleet at different ss's. Under the warp range like lets say 140k. than even if they do scan you they wont be able to warp in. you will have time to shot 1 or 2 frigs out while you align to the next ss on oposite side of the fleet... and so on. For this they will have to have out of grid tacklers or at least in warp range to you in position to catch you which they wont if its a surprise attack on a enemy gate camp or a passing fleet.
I Like solo snipping on enemy fleets they're many so they like to be confident on their numbers ... thous do mistakes, but best results are not on 200-250 k away shots but on the ones at 100-150 there you can use low range ammo with huge alpha and there's little chance of getting warped to from someone inside the field.
How I do it is:
1) Get a inti make ss's around the gate / station / place where enemy will/might be (on opposite sides of the target area in warp range to eachother). 1.a) Make sure you rename the ss's so you can remember where they are on the grid.( I use the sun alignment as 0 than clock wise 1.2.3.4 than Up Down for the 2 ss's at the top and bottom). 1.b) Move the book marks in bookmark folder than before the engagement open the group window so you have the bm's on your screen at all time. (saves you right click and browsing through the bm list... precious seconds)
2) When fight is on simply warp to the first bm. 2.a) Once you land on the field dont do anything before aligning to the second bm. 2.b) Once the ship starts to align immediately start targeting small frig / desy size ships. and I mean all of them. 2.c) Look in overview at speed who ever has mwd on and which way they head make decision and pop it to them.
3) At this time the others are about 50-70k away and you're fully aligned so warp to the ss2 and target those that were coming for you they should be 50 or so out of your 100k optimal so mid size ammo and so on.
From experience I can tell you that with a proper fitted ship you have the time to target and fire... hopefully kill 1 frigate at 100-150km.
4) keep playing with the ss's till you're happy with the results than warp out and dont come back in. At this point depending on fc they might try and spread out on the direction of ss's to wait for you or they have tacklers out of grid waiting for scan results.
I dont think nerfing scanning, or w/e, will give better snipping tactics. I do think people want things to be simple warp in-kill-warp out... with little or no extra effort.
Ive done the solo sniper thing for some time now and it takes preparation to do it right and thats how I like it :).
I can inform you that we very well know how to snipe. And what you describe can work in certain circumstances.
But it does not work on a prepared gang. When you **** off people to certain degree, they will come and try to hunt you. As they do, sniping in it's current form together with probes simply doesn't work.
I'm not asking things to be harder to probe, I'm simply asking for slightly more time so the sniper ships has a decent chance of getting out if they are on the ball.
|
TZeer
BURN EDEN
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:47:00 -
[8]
bump
|
JT Black
Amarr ALPHA REACTION
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:25:00 -
[9]
I agree with the OP
To some extent i blame CCP Soundwave who with his team decided small corps who pvp vs large groups needs further nerfs.
To that extent not only they are nerfing unprobable ships but as you could see during the AT interviews he also made the comments by saying in coversation to his commentators the the Dramiel needs nerfing as well.
Again another aid to small corps being nerfed.
Thanks again you have continued to benefit the blob mentality and to protect your mates in game who have lost ships to ppl like us.
JT
|
Feligast
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:56:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Feligast on 27/06/2011 20:56:33
Originally by: TZeer After the last patch/Incarna, unprobable ships is no longer possible. Not a big issue by itself.
But when you combine sniping tactics with the speed you get scan results, the whole tactic falls short.
Old Times: For those who remember the old scan/probe system, when you saw a probe on scan before, you knew you had 30 sec before they had a result on you. Enough to do hit and run tactics.
Now: If you know what you are doing, you will get a result on someone even before the ship itself has completely come out of warp. Which means it will be suicidal to even try. And for info, no you wont need full virtue set or max skill's to do it. Tried and tested.
So how can CCP bring back sniping as a viable tactic?
A few suggestions:
- As long as your ship has not excited warp, you should not get a warpable hit with the scan-probes, because of interference from warp. Not a fix in itself.
- Longer then 5 sec to get a result. 5 sec is simply to short.
- Add a second mechanic, one that adjusts the time it takes to scan, based on the sig radius and sensor strength. Better ratio = Longer scan time
The simplest would be just increasing the scan time. But of course differentiate between scanning for ships and scanning for plex, missions whatever. That could still be 5 sec. But getting result on a ship piloted by a player should be somewhat higher. The way it is now, sniping is not an option.
So now that it's gone from totally impossible to just highly unlikely to quickly find your "unprobable" machariels and nightmares, you come to the forums and cry? I thought BE was supposed to be pr0.
|
|
TZeer
BURN EDEN
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:10:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Feligast Edited by: Feligast on 27/06/2011 20:56:33
Originally by: TZeer After the last patch/Incarna, unprobable ships is no longer possible. Not a big issue by itself.
But when you combine sniping tactics with the speed you get scan results, the whole tactic falls short.
Old Times: For those who remember the old scan/probe system, when you saw a probe on scan before, you knew you had 30 sec before they had a result on you. Enough to do hit and run tactics.
Now: If you know what you are doing, you will get a result on someone even before the ship itself has completely come out of warp. Which means it will be suicidal to even try. And for info, no you wont need full virtue set or max skill's to do it. Tried and tested.
So how can CCP bring back sniping as a viable tactic?
A few suggestions:
- As long as your ship has not excited warp, you should not get a warpable hit with the scan-probes, because of interference from warp. Not a fix in itself.
- Longer then 5 sec to get a result. 5 sec is simply to short.
- Add a second mechanic, one that adjusts the time it takes to scan, based on the sig radius and sensor strength. Better ratio = Longer scan time
The simplest would be just increasing the scan time. But of course differentiate between scanning for ships and scanning for plex, missions whatever. That could still be 5 sec. But getting result on a ship piloted by a player should be somewhat higher. The way it is now, sniping is not an option.
So now that it's gone from totally impossible to just highly unlikely to quickly find your "unprobable" machariels and nightmares, you come to the forums and cry? I thought BE was supposed to be pr0.
That we are probable I couldnt care less of. We have been probable before without that stopping us much.
The problem is that getting a fix on the position of a sniper, if he decides to pop his head out, is way to quick. And due to that, using that tactic is the same as warping in at range and hit "selfdestruct" if there are probes in the water.
|
Draahk Chimera
Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:47:00 -
[12]
I am well aware of the reputation of BE and I have been on the reciving end, first time as early as 2005, so I would not presume I could teach BE anything about sniping tactics. But is there no way you could setup a cloaking t3 for sniping? Possibly Loki due to artillery alpha? Get a warp-in from your covops-alt, warp in cloaked, align and only then decloak and shoot?
|
TZeer
BURN EDEN
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:20:00 -
[13]
Edited by: TZeer on 28/06/2011 11:20:16
Originally by: Draahk Chimera I am well aware of the reputation of BE and I have been on the reciving end, first time as early as 2005, so I would not presume I could teach BE anything about sniping tactics. But is there no way you could setup a cloaking t3 for sniping? Possibly Loki due to artillery alpha? Get a warp-in from your covops-alt, warp in cloaked, align and only then decloak and shoot?
Remote reps and buffertanks, and not enough volleydamage.
|
Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided
|
Posted - 2011.06.29 04:48:00 -
[14]
My solution to the probing issues was to make Probes act like Drones. You launch a probe and it chases down whichever target you select for it. It flies like a drone, and follows the target in warp. But you have to warp to it like you would the cov ops pilot currently. But probes would be uncloaked, lockable, and destructible like any other drone. Faster probes are weaker with shorter scan ranges.
Probes wouldn't have any evasion or self preservation mechanics, so destroying them could be as easy as turn on the smartbomb.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~
Tiericide |
TZeer
BURN EDEN
|
Posted - 2011.07.01 11:24:00 -
[15]
bump
|
TZeer
BURN EDEN
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 11:13:00 -
[16]
bump |
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |