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Jane Vladmir	Posted - 2005.02.19 14:22:00 - [1] I suggest a minus be added to the WCS, such as less cap so that mwd'ers won't use them, or less agility so that indy's will reconsider them. All in favor?
Doktor Bowstein	Posted - 2005.02.19 14:25:00 - [2] Not necessary with the upcoming EW and propulsion changes I have heard the alpenhorns calling off the Shoals of Orion
JoeSomebody	Posted - 2005.02.19 17:08:00 - [3] yes, plz make gate-gankin even more "ballanced" than it already is. ____ When flying by Concord Customs Commander's Dominix I distinctly heard him saying "... world domination..."
Lorth	Posted - 2005.02.19 20:57:00 - [4] No you'll see a lot less ganks around, and more people moving in smaller packs then you do now. Simply put, the reason you were ganked, was because you had stabs on. Anyone who has done much pvp in 0.0 knows that every BS running around has about 7 stabs in the low slots. While very few of us find ganking people fun, we find getting 6 points of scramble on him and watching him warp even less fun. So, in order to actually kill someone, you brign enough people to kill him before he warps, regardless of what he has fitted in the lows. Thus the gank squad is born, simply because that the only way you can kill someone who doesn't want to fight. Remove stabs and you'll see a lot less gank squads and more 3-4 pilots roaming wolf packs, which are much more perferable for the killed and killers.
JoeSomebody	Posted - 2005.02.19 22:48:00 - [5] Originally by: Lorth Simply put, the reason you were ganked, was because you had stabs on even reading rest of it didnt help to make sense of this. ____ When flying by Concord Customs Commander's Dominix I distinctly heard him saying "... world domination..."
theRaptor	Posted - 2005.02.19 23:28:00 - [6] Originally by: Lorth So, in order to actually kill someone, you brign enough people to kill him before he warps, regardless of what he has fitted in the lows. Thus the gank squad is born, simply because that the only way you can kill someone who doesn't want to fight. You ever think of fighting someone who wanted to fight? Much more fun then ganking whatever happens to fly through your gate camp. And there are plenty of small PvP factions now, instead of the two PvP mega-alliances. --------------------------------------------------
RollinDutchMasters	Posted - 2005.02.19 23:29:00 - [7] Edited by: RollinDutchMasters on 19/02/2005 23:30:16 Originally by: JoeSomebody Originally by: Lorth Simply put, the reason you were ganked, was because you had stabs on even reading rest of it didnt help to make sense of this. Its the same principle behind logging indirectly causing more ganking. Right now, to be garunteed a kill in EVE, you need: 1) -8 Scramble (-9 for an arma) 2) Enough damage to kill any ship you encounter in roughly a minute. If you dont have one or the other of those attributes in your gang, you will lose kills to stabs/loggers. So you need a big enough gang to do both. Ergo, both WCS and the logoff mechanics are indirectly causing more ganking. Originally by: theRaptor You ever think of fighting someone who wanted to fight? Entering low security space implies that you are willing to PvP. If you whine when it happens, youre just a complete dumbass. Originally by: Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
Captain Rod	Posted - 2005.02.20 00:40:00 - [8] Not a very convincing argument lol. If people want ot try to avoid getting ganked then why not let them cram the lows with WCSs? Its not unbeatable. Like you said for a "definate" gank you need like 8 ships? Besides, not being an expert myself I still see that as bull. Insta-locking gankgeddons? A couple of them surely could drop virtually anything before it warped off? So wih the right ships present you could still whack mostthings with a mix of 5 ships I'd expect?
Artegg	Posted - 2005.02.20 00:44:00 - [9] Originally by: theRaptor You ever think of fighting someone who wanted to fight? Quote: You dont want to fight stay in 1.0-0.5
Arekuwa	Posted - 2005.02.20 02:03:00 - [10] Originally by: RollinDutchMasters Its the same principle behind logging indirectly causing more ganking. Right now, to be garunteed a kill in EVE, you need: So essentially to make it easier for you to get a guaranteed kill without anything your opponent can do about it? Have fun looking for your PvP win-button.
Weston McArthur	Posted - 2005.02.20 04:18:00 - [11] Originally by: Arekuwa Have fun looking for your PvP win-button. WTB: PvP win-button BPO.
Lorth	Posted - 2005.02.20 05:02:00 - [12] There is no pvp I win button. Though personally I believe there is a "I don't want to lose button." Its ctrl-q. Or alterantivy, with out the effort of pressing buttons filling your lows with stabs. As yes, if you have a well organised group attacking a solo pilot with 3 frigs on him you should win, always. But you don't simply because anyone not activally looking for pvp, and many who are looking for it will there low slots with stabs. You accept the risk when entering 0.0 that this is an open zone for combat. I can't tell you the number of times I have wondered around 0.0 solo looking for action only to see BS after BS after cruiser after frig warp off 'scrambled.' I don't want guaranted kills, and there is never any such thing. I want guaranted fun, and action. Avoiding combat with out any stabs fitted is already to easy to begin with. I have moved BS's through enemy allience territory, through chock-points, pretty much everywhere. And I can't rememeber any time where I have been forced to pvp when I didn't want to. Local, uber map, ships destroyed in the last hour, alts, safe spots.... Simply put if your smart, and don't want to pvp you can avoid 95% of the situtations anyways. What I don't like, is filling your lows with stabs and having no reason to fear anything save for the ganksquad you can easily see on the map. Being in 0.0 should fill you with gutrenching fear for your very existance. Death should be around nearly every corner. It should be hard to keep your wits and only the strong the quick and the smart should survive. Imagine how exciting that would be!
Lorth	Posted - 2005.02.20 05:18:00 - [13] Originally by: Arekuwa So essentially to make it easier for you to get a guaranteed kill without anything your opponent can do about it? Have fun looking for your PvP win-button. Err you could umm, reilize that low sec and 0.0 (much more so) has a high change of combat being forced apon you and equip your ship accordanly. As in to fight back. You are given every chance to do 'somthing about it' including fighting back and winning. I'd even say that you have a better chance of wining, or at least forcing your opponent to run given that you don't have to fit mods to keep your opponent in place.
Aleyna	Posted - 2005.02.20 05:52:00 - [14] Edited by: Aleyna on 20/02/2005 05:53:27 ugh... no point posting in dumb post carry on matey
Lorth	Posted - 2005.02.20 06:27:00 - [15] Originally by: Aleyna and yet another "oh please, let us kill non-combat ships faster/better/more often" as i see it, as a 0.0 dweller, its easy to find action if you want it so all those posts about "oh i cant find action in 0.0" or "its hard to find it" damn right its hard, if it was easy, then hell... you wouldnt want to play... wait i take that back (thinks of Counter Strike) as it stands, not all pilots remember to rig their WCS and this is were you come in... a friendly reminder to always pack light and carry your WCS. Also, it might be easier to find something to kill in 0.0 if you didnt camp the damn choke 24/7 and actually LOOKED <gasp> (isnt that a hard concept to graps actually looking for a kill) you might find some miners (isnt that what you like, big slow and no defense/offense) to blast. First point. 0.0 is a combat zone. You accept the fact that combat can happen at anytime by entering it. If you don't want combat then stay out, that simple. 0.0 also does become rather boring through most of the time. My typical day involves about 1 hour of waiting for somthing to happen and about 5 minutes of somthing actually happening. Take even your average fleet battle, one thats talked about for days. It ushally involves about 4 hours of preperation, while one side sits on that gate. The other studys the map, gather numbers, sends alts.... All this followed by about 1/2 and hour of actual fun. And yes I look for fights. Oh do I look. Truthfully I detest camping, really really detest it with all my heart. And lets stop using the word 'gank.' Replace it with the word fight and see what a differance it makes. I find very little fun in ganking people. 10 vs 1 is over in seconds, and involves little skill, save for the tacklers who got 12 points of scamble on the guy. To many people read a post like this and assume that I want to kill everything I see. I don't, I want a fight with everything I see. Big differance! I want a challange, I want every hostile I see to be fully capable of mounting an offence. I want the rush you get when you agree to a 1vs1 because you know the guy can fight everytime I see a red ship I want it to be hard to catch someone, and also very importantly, hard to escape someone. I want smart players to face some risk while travalling through 0.0. I want to feel an adrenilin rush when I uncloak at everygate not knowing what to expect. I want to feel excited at the prospect of getting some kills, and some deaths, in a gang of 3. I want to have a chance of dying to a equally smart opponent, when I don't want to fight. I don't want to wtfpwn everyship I see. I don't want to feel forced to bring the nessasary firepower to insta destroy a BS because he has 7 stabs on. I don't want to see an opponent I have dead to rights disappear because I couldn't kill him in a minute. I don't want to feel safe in 0.0 ever. I don't want a large portion of the ships I see warp away simply because I don't have the mid slots to scramble a stabbed out cruiser. I don't want have to gank people, it really sucks, but is better then the prevous point. Thats how I feel. If you don't agree with my points, I would suggest that you stay in empire.
Aleyna	Posted - 2005.02.20 07:38:00 - [16] haha because i dont agree with you im an empire carebear you people are freakin hilarious with ur screwed up logic you want action, join the army
Lorth	Posted - 2005.02.20 07:55:00 - [17] Edited by: Lorth on 20/02/2005 07:58:00 Originally by: Aleyna haha because i dont agree with you im an empire carebear you people are freakin hilarious with ur screwed up logic you want action, join the army No, I pay for this game, and thus have an expectation of entertainment. I find PVP and risks are what provides enjoyment for me. Why is my argument hilarious? I choose my words carefully, and intentually laid out my view points in a manner that I thought would not be misunderstood. What I said was my expectation of what the 0.0 section of space should be like. The point about disagreeing with me etc was unclear. Let me put it this way. If you unwilling to accept that 0.0 comes with the risk of unconsentual pvp then stick to empire. If you have any sort of problem with being killed then don't enter 0.0 And I feel that the risk should be higher. It should take cunning and wit to avoid pvp if you wish to do so. Not 7 stabs. Originally by: Lorth Being in 0.0 should fill you with gutrenching fear for your very existance. Death should be around nearly every corner. It should be hard to keep your wits and only the strong the quick and the smart should survive. Imagine how exciting that would be! That a better summery?
Darken Two	Posted - 2005.02.20 08:40:00 - [18] Originally by: Aleyna haha because i dont agree with you im an empire carebear you people are freakin hilarious with ur screwed up logic you want action, join the army If you have nothing to say then shut up. You are unworthy of questioning Lorth's logic when you have none of your own. Or please tell the rest of the eve community why 0.0 should be a walk in the park for you. Why dont you just DIE DIE DIE !!!!
Lord Anubis	Posted - 2005.02.20 09:09:00 - [19] Originally by: Lorth No you'll see a lot less ganks around, and more people moving in smaller packs then you do now. Simply put, the reason you were ganked, was because you had stabs on. Anyone who has done much pvp in 0.0 knows that every BS running around has about 7 stabs in the low slots. While very few of us find ganking people fun, we find getting 6 points of scramble on him and watching him warp even less fun. So, in order to actually kill someone, you brign enough people to kill him before he warps, regardless of what he has fitted in the lows. Thus the gank squad is born, simply because that the only way you can kill someone who doesn't want to fight. Remove stabs and you'll see a lot less gank squads and more 3-4 pilots roaming wolf packs, which are much more perferable for the killed and killers. LOL actully WCS were brought in the game because of gank sqauds not the other way round You cant beat Death But you can make the bastard work hard for it wtb Jerek Zuomi's Insignia
Aleyna	Posted - 2005.02.20 09:32:00 - [20] dont get me wrong, im all for risk. you say that 0.0 should take wits and whatnot to survive? great.. how bout this.. YOU use your wits and logic and find a way to take down 7 WCS. Instead of b!tching about your lack of wits (hey, sorry but you asked for it) why not come up with some strategies to take down helpless ships trying to get from point A to B? i understand the concept of 0.0, i understand the concept of looking for a fight anywhere, yes sometimes i go out looking for fights only to waste hours searching for something i can kill but you know what? thats fun enough for me and i dont come crying in the boards calling for nerf this nerf that (plz nerf missiles now!!!!) i just deal with it yes, it is your opinion that WCS have got to go. yes you are entitled to your opinion and also to share it. damn i've lost my train of thought cuz i was enjoying a moment of teamwork in eve. ps-i pay for the game too so **** off if you want to dictate as to where i should and should not play
Lorth	Posted - 2005.02.20 10:23:00 - [21] Originally by: Aleyna dont get me wrong, im all for risk. you say that 0.0 should take wits and whatnot to survive? great.. how bout this.. YOU use your wits and logic and find a way to take down 7 WCS. Instead of b!tching about your lack of wits (hey, sorry but you asked for it) why not come up with some strategies to take down helpless ships trying to get from point A to B? i understand the concept of 0.0, i understand the concept of looking for a fight anywhere, yes sometimes i go out looking for fights only to waste hours searching for something i can kill but you know what? thats fun enough for me and i dont come crying in the boards calling for nerf this nerf that (plz nerf missiles now!!!!) i just deal with it yes, it is your opinion that WCS have got to go. yes you are entitled to your opinion and also to share it. damn i've lost my train of thought cuz i was enjoying a moment of teamwork in eve. ps-i pay for the game too so ** off if you want to dictate as to where i should and should not play Its not my lack of wits thats stops me from killing a 7-8 wcs ships. Its the lack of a ship which has 9 mids slots needed to effectivly tackle a BS equiped as such. You fail to understand that concecpt yet accuse me of having a 'lack of wits.' If you are hear simply to make ill thought out flames, please refrane from posting. This discussion could do without the trolling. Originally by:** Lord Anubis LOL actully WCS were brought in the game because of gank sqauds not the other way round WCS were brought into the game simply because there was no counter measure against a scrambler. The comminality of the gank and the ganksquad stems in large part due to the difficulty of killing stabs up insta jumping ships.
Darken Two	Posted - 2005.02.20 10:29:00 - [22] Originally by: Aleyna dont get me wrong, im all for risk. you say that 0.0 should take wits and whatnot to survive? great.. how bout this.. YOU use your wits and logic and find a way to take down 7 WCS. Instead of b!tching about your lack of wits (hey, sorry but you asked for it) why not come up with some strategies to take down helpless ships trying to get from point A to B? i understand the concept of 0.0, i understand the concept of looking for a fight anywhere, yes sometimes i go out looking for fights only to waste hours searching for something i can kill but you know what? thats fun enough for me and i dont come crying in the boards calling for nerf this nerf that (plz nerf missiles now!!!!) i just deal with it yes, it is your opinion that WCS have got to go. yes you are entitled to your opinion and also to share it. damn i've lost my train of thought cuz i was enjoying a moment of teamwork in eve. ps-i pay for the game too so ** off if you want to dictate as to where i should and should not play Whoa you need to calm down before your head explodes. Noones trying to dictate where you do or dont play. Noones askin to remove WCS from teh game. The intial poster just asked that their fitting br adjusted so they are harder to fit and you dont need **loads of tacklers to take on a single ship. As far as I see it, its a fair idea, tho it could have its flaws. Instead of tellin people why you think its a bad idea, you think we should all just listen to your abuse and agree to everything you say. Now mommy might agree with you when you throw a tantrum but we adults dont. So say sumin productive or shut up. Why dont you just DIE DIE DIE !!!!
Nomeshta	Posted - 2005.02.20 10:30:00 - [23] Originally by: RollinDutchMasters Edited by: RollinDutchMasters on 19/02/2005 23:30:16 Originally by: JoeSomebody Originally by: Lorth Simply put, the reason you were ganked, was because you had stabs on even reading rest of it didnt help to make sense of this. Its the same principle behind logging indirectly causing more ganking. Right now, to be garunteed a kill in EVE, you need: 1) -8 Scramble (-9 for an arma) 2) Enough damage to kill any ship you encounter in roughly a minute. If you dont have one or the other of those attributes in your gang, you will lose kills to stabs/loggers. So you need a big enough gang to do both. Ergo, both WCS and the logoff mechanics are indirectly causing more ganking. Originally by: theRaptor You ever think of fighting someone who wanted to fight? Entering low security space implies that you are willing to PvP. If you whine when it happens, youre just a complete dumbass. I think he meant you should go fight corporations who are pvp-orientated such as BoB or m0o. - Caution: Ninja Fingers WTB: Implants
Aleyna	Posted - 2005.02.20 10:32:00 - [24] Edited by: Aleyna on 20/02/2005 10:34:10 EW not being my field, i do believe that just 1 scorp can tackle any bs. btw, this isnt trolling and im not the one lacking wits after all, im not the one trying to blow up some guy's battleship and whining cuz i couldnt do it due to lack of WS strength. as for this topic im done... too lame and quite frankly pointless due to EW revamp coming soon (tm) -- sorry, i posted before i saw darken's post... wow dude, take a chill pill step away from the PC and get a ****in life.
Lorth	Posted - 2005.02.20 10:59:00 - [25] No a scorp can not tackle any BS. Assuming it can lock a BS before it warps, and to be fair it ushally can though. 8 scramblers will effectivly tackle any ship with 7 stabs or less, so you will not tackle a geddon with any ship solo. However, you can almost never lock a cruiser in time, so you need sensor boosters. So now your down to perhaps 6 points (two boosters to ensure you at least get the lock) and you can no longer tackle anything with 6 or stabs. Meaning you've limited your self to, Ravens and other scorps. Tempests can be scrambled if you use one booster and accept not getting all the frigs. To further add insult to injury. The scorp is both very slow and does the least damage of any BS. Meaning you are not going to kill the tempest for sure because of its far greater speed will allow it to crawl out of your 20km scramble range (you started 15km assuming you were sitting on the gate) even with the worst of tanks. Both the raven and the scorp have high cpu and don't need to turn off high slots to fit stabs. Meaning they will easily kill you or out tank your damage long enough to crawl to the gate and jump. So you need a friend. Unfortunatly most people don't like flying tackling scorps. Nor would this be at all effective since many could still out range you with speed, or simply kill both of you. So you get more friends, because you need more points of tackling. So if your two show up with say 2 points of scramble each, and you have two as well (very common occurance as the tackling scorp is a rather dumb idea.) you still don't have enough to tackle a BS. So you get more friends, for no other reason then to get a single BS to stay put... Thus you have now got your self a gank squad. Which however can be seen on the map easily and will be avoided by any pilot smart enough to use the map and see theres trouble a head. So your forced to stay put and pick off the unfortunate passers by which isn't fun. So you now need to wonder around and use map lag to your advantage. But you need more tacklers to do this because your going to get spread out travelling.... So in the end you have some ten pilots roaming 0.0 looking for a fight activally searching for a blob thier size, but getting nothing but ganks, which are not a lot of fun for any of the pilots involved.
Nomeshta	Posted - 2005.02.20 11:02:00 - [26] Either that, Lorth, or you can get some mobile warp disrupters. I've heard they don't work 100% of the time so, perhaps you should be calling for them to be fixed or made easier to deploy? - Caution: Ninja Fingers WTB: Implants
Darken Two	Posted - 2005.02.20 14:51:00 - [27] Originally by: Nomeshta Either that, Lorth, or you can get some mobile warp disrupters. I've heard they don't work 100% of the time so, perhaps you should be calling for them to be fixed or made easier to deploy? Mobile warp disruptors suck. If you had two or three people in your gang, you would want to be mobile and the warp disruptor takes ages to setup or take down means you lose a warp disruptor everytime you lose a fight. Its much easier to just make a gank squad. That way you can be pretty sure you never lose the disruptor as you have enough people to make sure it doesnt get blown. Why dont you just DIE DIE DIE !!!!
Lord Anubis	Posted - 2005.02.20 14:55:00 - [28] ive been playing this game a very long time and ive yet to se a fair fight at a gate and i think i never will You cant beat Death But you can make the bastard work hard for it wtb Jerek Zuomi's Insignia
Punisher1	Posted - 2005.02.20 15:35:00 - [29] Any idea I posted about how to 'fix' warp core stabs a few weeks ago can be found Here yes, they need to be fixed. 8 wcs on a BS is danm silly.
Kaeten	Posted - 2005.02.20 16:16:00 - [30] Originally by: Jane Vladmir I suggest a minus be added to the WCS, such as less cap so that mwd'ers won't use them, or less agility so that indy's will reconsider them. All in favor? No i'm not in favor, due to the upcomming chages in ecm and the fact that the person puts a wc on taking up one of his low slots. If u want to catch them put on another scrambler. ___________________________________ Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante

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