|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 19 post(s) |
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 06:04:00 -
[1]
Originally by: Seleene Valerie,
If you really want to understand how a lot of folks feel in a short amount of time, I suggest you read this as it sums up a lot of player feelings:
Originally by: Jade Constantine Sure when you have been playing Eve as long as we have you learn to take the rough with the smooth but you do so with the general feeling that CCP developers understand and ôgetö what makes Eve great û and thatÆs the problem now. This internal newsletter (if real) shows that one of the leading developers does not ôget eveö does not care about eve, and simply sees eve as a cash cow to be milked ferociously to fund other projects. This is about keeping the golden goose of eve subscriptions (on a drip feed if necessary) while chasing and grubbing every little loose cent he can from the player base.
Let me give you a couple of examples of how this can and does (and has already) impacted our enjoyment of this game:
1. The Captains Quarters û itÆs not gameplay its a display cabinet for vanity items. And the price of this display cabinet for you and I is that multi-client performance in stations is now terrible û if you have a bad graphic card itÆs a jerk fest û if you have a decent graphics card itÆs heat-fest. I can run 3-4 clients with CQÆs turned on û I can run it smoothly û but do I want to? Hell no because my Gtx 580 sounds like its melting my motherboard now! So I need to turn off the CQÆs on multiple accounts and as a result have more limited functionality on those accounts and an ugly wallpaper. No more station environment, no more clicking on my ship to open cargo hold, no more dragging ship to the hanger to board it. The delivery of the CQ vanity item display case has impacted my gameplay.
CCP could have made it optional and given us the option of keeping the old hanger view and added a ôdisembark shipö option to the UI but ôoh noö to do that would have meant we werenÆt being forced to look the vanity display case that marketing insisted must be front and centre if weÆre to even think about buying these ridiculously overpriced items from the Noble store.
2. If you read the newsletter youÆll see reference to saved fitting slots û and I donÆt know about you Verone but in JF weÆve run out of saved corp ship fittings. We want CCP to up the limit but is that really going to happen while the ôbiz-devsö talk honeyed words about how to squeeze extra income from players for such ôminor upgrades.ö? How long till we pay aurum for extra corp standing slots? For wardec options? For a usable corp management screen?
3. And who develops these vanity items? Yes thats right its Eve artists and developers whose salary we pay with our subscriptions. Given the choice wouldnÆt you rather have engine trails and flashy cyno effect for all players rather than a bunch of overpriced tat in the Aur store for a fleeced few?
Because that is precisely the compromise being made here -> CCP using our subs money to pay for vanity item production they want to sell back to us for greedy prices and it is something you SHOULD get mad about.
So hereÆs the thing.
The time to fight for the game we love is not in six months time when these concepts have bedded down and CCP is feeling bold enough to start selling Noble Faction ammo and +9 implants. The time to fight is now. Because this newsletter embodies everything that many of us feared but didnÆt want to believe CCP were becoming capable of. It is a massive betrayal of the compact we shared as players and developers of this game and indicates that CCP is preparing to leap down a very dark and deep path of self-immolation in the months to come.
I donÆt want to see Eve Online die Verone. That sounds dramatic I know, but gameworlds die when the dreams and visions are extinguished and that can happen through a succession of bad ideas foisted on a community by people who really donÆt have much of a clue in business.
This
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 06:42:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Nuhm DeAra
Originally by: Bloodpetal
Originally by: Nuhm DeAra
Originally by: Pherick Sjang I'm actually impressed, CCP. You have achieved what we all thought was impossible: you have unified the EVE playerbase. Against you.
Please do not think that you are speaking for the playerbase. That's about as ignorant as most of the animalistic rage in this thread and I unify with none of the mouth-breathing, foaming-at-the-mouth, pitchfork holders.
Honestly, if you read most of it, very little of it is "Rage".
A lot of quote-copying and straight up down from the heart responses.
I haven't seen many HOIREJW:REJWLKREWJ SCCP SUCKS posts. Feel free to cite the instances, and then compare with the other 66 pages of posts and growing at about a rate of 10 per minute. I'll do another check on average post amount in the morning, but Europe is just waking up to all this.
This entire thread is mostly an atrocity. You're complaining to regular human beings, not gods, and demanding that they give you what you want or you'll stamp and shake your fists until you finally cancel your subscription.
There are good points. But most of you should be ashamed of yourselves.
Finally cancel our accounts? I assure you some of us already have. I like that you berate people for being openly (sometimes vehemently) angry with a company who openly lied and tried to pull a bait and switch on the people they've repeatedly promised would not be subjected to MT of any kind. Emotion provokes strong reactions for lots of people, it's human nature. Get over it.
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 06:47:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Nocte Katelo
Originally by: Pat Morrison
Originally by: Axemaster This is terrible and pathetic on every level.
Explain to us when you allowed money bagging fools into the company.
Then tell us when they will be leaving.
Otherwise things will most likely continue on their current path to destruction.
They're running the place. Joseph Gallo, former Citigroup managing director, is now the CFO, and is responsible for the strategic initiatives of the company.
Wow...a former Citigrouper...I suppose he may be useful in seeking some sort of state sponsored bailout for CCP when the subscription levels bottom out, eh?
You know it! Hot damn, gotta love bailouts!
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 07:30:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Miklas Laces - make a public statement that game-changing items (ships, skills, standings) will never be sold through the virtual store
Sorry but this is not enough, they've lied to us twice about this MT crap. Once last year when they said MT would not be coming, then again when they said MT would be vanity only. Why in god's name would you ever trust another word out of their mouth?
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 07:43:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Voltaire Leriel Though the content of this memo is rather disturbing, the most shocking thing for me is the tone of it.
It's extremely patronizing. Does CCP really see us as some kind of untapped cash reservoir that they need to exploit at all costs?
Are we just sheep with wallets, morons waiting to be duped out of our hard-earned cash for a piece of virtual cloth that costs as much or more than a real piece of cloth?
I think they severely underestimate the intelligence level of their playerbase, just how stupid do they think we are?
I've been getting a bad feeling about CCP for a while now... Every time I see a dev on the alliance tourney panel who doesn't know EVE from a hole in the ground.
I used to look up to CCP as one of the warmer and more understanding companies in the game industry. But I have lost a lot of respect for it today.
You guys don't know your game anymore, you don't play it anymore, you don't know your playerbase and you certainly don't know me or why I like or play this game, even though you have met me at several FanFests.
I have played since beta, I've never unsubbed my account, and I feel substantially betrayed.
CCP sums up it's subscribers wants/concerns with :lolcustomers: or :playersdontdodesign: internally, should be no surprise at this point.
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 08:01:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Android Mindslave
Originally by: Hai Boiz I'd just like to say thank you, CCP Pann, for having the courage to step out in front of this unruly mob.
I look forward to this blowing over and getting settled into my new captain's quarters. It's a little sparse right now, but I think I will enjoy sprucing it up as new items become available in that special shop.
This is going to be so much fun as new things come into stations. I can't wait for the day I proudly cut the ribbon on my very own salon. Half price for all CCP characters on the full makeover.
See you then :)
I think you are missing the part where all the rage is about CCP getting ready to sell pay to win magic spaceship bullets in their store inside a game where you already have to pay a sub to play.
LOL, but the CQ is :AWESOME:
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 08:07:00 -
[7]
Originally by: *****knuts I have the upmost faith that CCP will continue to do whats best for them and their investors. As a business should.
It's just a shame it doesn't tie in with what the customer want.
I, too, have the utmost faith in CCP to try and **** us with MT.
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 09:03:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Drecon Thor Honestly, don't you think that a bunch of crack dealers trying to figure out how to maximize crack profits would sound exactly the way that documanet sounds?
'we better not give them TOO much crack all at once, they will get all strung out, lets make sure we parcel it out slow so they don't notice it's happening until they're sucking d1ck for more money to buy crack'
mhmmm
Apt comparison imo
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 09:14:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Isis Soryu on 24/06/2011 09:14:00
Originally by: Sahvi Morvaalis Edited by: Sahvi Morvaalis on 24/06/2011 09:11:33
Originally by: Elondris Singh
Originally by: DeadDuck The 1MÇ question is...
CCP is all this decided yet or not ? Can you please tell us in advance if all the whining in here is worth it, and actually try to do something about all the Player base concerns or your going forward anyway ?
Please answer the question so I can decide if I keep paying the subscriptions or not.
TY
Manifest has said that the Aurum cycle is here to stay. I hope it is deeply reconsidered, however.
Yes, but wasn't it he who stated last year that it would never exist in the first place?
it was CCP Shadow see sig
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 09:26:00 -
[10]
Originally by: El'Niaga
Originally by: Hoya en Marland lol they won't make CQ optional you ppl can forget about it - they didn't spend years developing... something... to be only a mere checkbox in your game settings
You think they spent years on CQ...oh Lord what a maroon. At best this was 6 months of coding.
Given performance so far I doubt their engine can handle interaction between players with their avatars. The system is far to taxing. Remember your just loading your own quarters and your own avatar now and even good machines are risking overheating. Add more polygons to the equation and you'll melt some.
Oh no no no, don't forget about the first iteration they scrapped after Apocrypha! They had that **** at fanfest remember?
|
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 09:58:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Mitchello
Originally by: Seleene
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Hey Abathur, how's that freedom working out for you?
Aside from watching a game I love getting taken down the road to Crazyville, the view is just fine from where I'm sitting. I'm not talking about just Incarna or MT or whatever; I mean the whole package of miscommunication and poor decision making that has taken place in the past week...
I don't envy the task of CCP in the coming days but, in all honesty, they did it to themselves. Nearly everything that's happened in the past 72 hours could have been done better if CCP had taken a different approach to their messaging.
This thread that 'Pann' started... I can understand why it was done, but she's the wrong person for this particular damage control job. I may be a year removed but I still know how CCP as a corporate culture functions and that there is no such divide as she is trying to suggest from company intentions and even policies. I've got half a dozen old Fearless newsletters that read just like this new one and I've seen first hand what happens when the forums catch fire.
This, however, surpasses anything I've seen previously from either side (players or devs). Too many mixed messages and bad ideas have happened all at once and it's created a perfect storm for people to rage about any and everything. It's all I can do to even keep up with the threads, but I'm trying to read as much as I can so I can keep a measure of how the winds are blowing.
I'm going to start a thread on the CSM forums specifically aimed at this 'new effort' and ask how we can 'help' if only to see who responds and what they have to say. If CCP wants to drive on without using the CSM for the purposes they said they wanted to time and again... well, I'll certainly keep everyone updated as best I can.
Probably an idea to repost this, otherwise it'll get lost in the thread.
Needs to be quoted
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 10:04:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Rex Liberium
Originally by: Fascimilita You do realise that you can't just sweep this under the rug and hope it blows over, right? That you've been caught trying to pull a fast one on your sole group of customers, as in, the only people keeping the lights on and your mortgages paid? You're running out of time to get the deciders in here to offer their grovelling apologies and commit, in no uncertain terms, to limited and vanity-only microtransactions throughout eve; fail to do that or try to brush it aside, and you're going to face a catastrophic drop in subscriber numbers to a level that won't begin to support a 600 man enterprise. Inaction is suicide.
Quote: A reputation for a thousand years may depend upon the conduct of a single moment.
Ernest Bramah
Wise words.
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 10:21:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Svennig
Originally by: Alain Ichinumi
Unhappy about the CaptainÆs Quarters are just whiners. It's just a cosmetic change, gameplay hasn't been affected in any way.
It's hard to imagine that of 10 million sperm, you were the fastest.
Try right clicking your ship to open cargo bays or drone bays, you can't. Try dragging and dropping a ship, you can't. Try using the terrible "floaty in space" ship bay interfaces to get to fuel or ship maintenance on capitals, you can't. Try playing more than 1 clients at a time without it being a serious degredation in quality, you can't. Try playing more than 2 clients at a time without it being unbearable, you can't. Try understanding the error messages you get now. You need to be in a pod to use the industrial services? I'm standing in the ****ing station. You want me to activate a ship, what for?!
Nice burn!
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 10:28:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Isis Soryu on 24/06/2011 10:29:32 Incase anyone thinks that the Fearless newsletter doesn't reflect policy I offer this quote from Seleene (formerly CCP Abathur)
Originally by: "Seleene" This thread that 'Pann' started... I can understand why it was done, but she's the wrong person for this particular damage control job. I may be a year removed but I still know how CCP as a corporate culture functions and that there is no such divide as she is trying to suggest from company intentions and even policies. I've got half a dozen old Fearless newsletters that read just like this new one and I've seen first hand what happens when the forums catch fire.
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 10:36:00 -
[15]
Originally by: oniplE We all know CCP and how they communicate, we don't need the answers, we already know what they're going to say. The following devblogs are upcoming:
1) Aurum prices are not final and will be lowered if necessary.
2) The internal memo is not to be taken seriously: its purpose is to incite discussion among employees and none of the disturbing plans inside are actually plans. No solid promises will be made, there will not be a "We will never sell non-vanity items for Dollars" statement. A typical CCP devblog that evades the issue at hand, but does calm most of the people down. Crisis averted.
Then there will be a series of non-issue blogs that smother the discussion about the first two dev blogs: 3) Incarna performance will be looked into. 4) Some devblog on the coming iterations on CQ features 5) "We do have plan for Spaceships-Online": some token plans for features are shown.
At the very best, and to be honost I think the chances are slim, Captain's Quarters will be made optional and the original Hangar view will be restored. This is the only real change you can hope for.
This is what I expect honestly.
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 10:56:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Kali Doom
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
Originally by: Glyken Touchon re-posting from another of my posts as this thread seems to be getting Dev attention.
ROFL!
Wow.... Big SQL query just run on the forums, looped the CPU for at least 30sec and thread moves back a bunch of posts.
Seems they are just running queries with mixes of keywords.
So I wonder what they deleted?
Haha f-ck them. Thread isn't going away.
Quote: Rotosequence @HilmarVeigar I'd desperately love to see this promise made to all players of EVE Online. [url]bit.ly/ifOOE |
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 11:03:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Isis Soryu on 24/06/2011 11:06:18 Edited by: Isis Soryu on 24/06/2011 11:03:11
Originally by: Sur Jamkar
Originally by: ovenproofjet
Quote: The developers of this company will always play the games that they build here. Without being fully immersed in the player experience, perspective, and community, it is impossible to build, maintain, and expand online worlds with any degree of competency. And while that does expose us to some degree of risk, the rewards are incalculably higher.
CCP Hilmar once said this, in the wake of th t20 scandal. Do you still stay true to this CCP?
They forgot where they came from.
Dude he is so god damned delusional it isn't even funny. He can't even see the difference between plex and MT.
Quote: Rotosequence @HilmarVeigar I'd desperately love to see this promise made to all players of EVE Online. bit.ly/ifOOEU #tweetfleet
16 Jun in reply to @Rotosequence ↑ Hilmar Veigar @HilmarVeigar @Rotosequence Should we then remove PLEX? 16 Jun via web
Quote: Rotosequence @HilmarVeigar I'd desperately love to see this promise made to all players of EVE Online. bit.ly/ifOOE |
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 11:10:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tehlana Riolis
Originally by: Drunken Wolf AUR is fatal for EVE.
It will kill this game.
Game is pretty much dead at this point. It has been for several years now , we just now notice it is in terminal faze . Thanks to ÇÇP.
Yep, they can't see the difference between PLEX and MT so full steam ahead.
Quote: Rotosequence @HilmarVeigar I'd desperately love to see this promise made to all players of EVE Online. bit.ly/ifOOEU #tweetfleet
16 Jun in reply to @Rotosequence ↑ Hilmar Veigar @HilmarVeigar @Rotosequence Should we then remove PLEX? 16 Jun via web
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 11:33:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Sister Bliss Firstly, stop thinking this is a small issue associated with Aurum, MT, Captains Quarters and such. While each of those topics is indeed an issue to be debated in their own right, the broader issue is much larger and dwarfs these entirely.
As a long term paying customer, I have seen virtually no progress towards addressing key broken mechanics and unfinshed expansions over the past 2 years! Instead we continue to pay for low value, peripheral expansions that do nothing significant to enhance the game, and only adds more clutter and unfinished content.
All of these concerns were raised by the playerbase in the 18 months thread fiasco if not before then in many cases. Recently you've announced you are just starting to look at 0.0 and other gameplay aspects. So if we look at this as an example, and with your delivery record, I would be surprised to see any meaningful expansion to Eve within the next 1.5 years that goes anywhere near addressing player expectations.
In total, this represents an almost 4 year gap between you listening to and responding to your customers comments and feedback. 4 YEARS!
FOUR YEARS!
It's clear that your focus is on bringing in new players, but without fixing the core mechanics which keeps players here long term, you're just treading water. The vision and creativity which we saw and belived in years ago has long since faded and died. Today even the smallest of fixes is met with cheer given how low everyones expecations have settled (this alone should make you very concerned).
As an example, you could fix the Technetium issue over a single weekend if you actually got off your ass instead of ****ing about discussing how to finance other titles and spending years working on this Incarna disgrace. Get your ****ing priorities straight.
Excellent Post
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 11:46:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Lirael Dyrim Have CCP made any formal response yet besides CCP "Meatshield" Pan and CCP Manifest's slightly glib comments?
This was at 45 pages when I went to sleep, heh.
Nope
|
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 11:49:00 -
[21]
Originally by: DeBingJos Helicity Boson on Twitter: Huzzah! I have been permabanned from EVE-online! #tweetfleet
WHAT THE ****
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 11:57:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Lord Cath So the best response to our concerns was to ban someone on ******ed grounds ?????
ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR FRIGGING MIND CCP ????
WHAT THE ****! You guys are really pathetic. How ****ing low do you have to sink before you hit bottom. **** you guys seriously and **** your soon to be dead game.
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:08:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Nathan Jameson Banning Helicity was not the best choice, regardless of how abrasive CCP may have found him to be.
Now the disgruntled player base has an icon to rally behind.
They're ****ing morons. Come on a feed us your bull**** Devblog so you can try and spin this ****fest for us.
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:17:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium
Originally by: DeBingJos
Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium
Originally by: DeBingJos Helicity Boson on Twitter: Huzzah! I have been permabanned from EVE-online! #tweetfleet
What did she get perma-banned for?
http://pastebin.com/NtRB9bin
Ah well, if it is true that he threatened someone then the ban was appropriate. This does not invalidate the truth of his criticism however.
So you consider the troll DIAF as a threat? That's essentially what he did. I've done worse for 2 days now and I'm not banned. (yet)
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:21:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Isis Soryu on 24/06/2011 12:21:13
Originally by: Dierdra Vaal Edited by: Dierdra Vaal on 24/06/2011 12:19:08 <snip> As a recurring member of the CSM, whose duty it is to represent the players (something I took very seriously), I went to CCP to discuss the issue of microtransactions. In fact, this topic was discussed several times on CSM summits (both in October and in December). We were assured that microtransactions would be vanity items only.
I was told, to my face, that CCP would not sell anything in their virtual goods store that would not be a vanity item (vanity items being useless fluff, not giving any benefits). Now I read in your newsletter that one of your main game designers is openly argueing to break this promise. I take that as a personal insult and a clear sign of disrespect towards the Eve community as a whole. Shame on you for even considering to break your word!
I'm still subscribed, the but moment CCP will offer anything other than vanity items for PLEX/AURUM/etc is the moment I will cancel my accounts. In going for the 'hobbyist gamer' (casual gamers, even though eve isn't that casual gamer friendly), you seem to have forgotten a large part of your player base. The part that has shaped Eve over the years: the hardcore gamers. We don't come here as a hobby to experience an ultimate sci-fi simulator. We pay a subscription for an all-access pass to this crazy dystopian universe, where what you do, what you become and what you achieve comes down only to your skills and your effort. And because of that, our actions are meaningful.
By extending the virtual goods sales beyond vanity items you directly attack one of the things that seperates Eve from all the other MMOs out there: that actions are meaningful. If I can just buy faction standing, what meaning is there in doing missions for faction standings? What meaning is there in finally achieving 6.0 standing (for POSs) or 9.0 standing (for COSMOS missions)? And from what I read, that's not even the end of it!
Some people might enjoy spending more money 'on their hobby' like it was golf (an analogy that is inherently flawed, which I'll explain below), but due to the dystopian, merciless nature of Eve you've bred a community that exists for a large part out of hardcore players. People who see Eve as a serious business proving ground - not as a lighthearted diversion. These are the people who have allowed you to get to where you are today. These are the people who stuck by you over the past 8 years - even if they do call themselves "bittervets". To turn your back on those people is at best poor form, and at worst commercial suicide. Because Star Wars Galaxies has shown you can't just trade in one group of customers for another.
Why golf is not the same as eve Specifically, buying golfclubs isn't the same as buying items in Eve. The equivalent would be if you could pay $100 to get one swing/strike/whatever it's called removed from your record. Instead of making a hole in 5, you could pay $400 and get it listed as a hole in one! Suddenly, your golf stats won't depend on how good you are, but simply on how much money you're willing to spend. Try to suggest that to golfers and see how they like it.
In Eve, just flying a spaceship isn't all there is to the gameplay. The effort to GET that spaceship is part of the game. The fact that it isn't easy to obtain certain things, achieve certain things or do certain things is exactly what makes these things meaningful. Meaningful to me AND to others, who can see what I have achieved. And now some game designer would like to take that away? Bad move CCP.
This illustrates it well: http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h334/adunh/MoonSpeech.png
Best Post
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:27:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Isis Soryu on 24/06/2011 12:28:08
Originally by: Dierdra Vaal I feel sad that this has happened - and sad that I need to write this post (not just because it'll probably get buried under 9000 other posts). However, I hope this will be read because I am trying to make a reasonable argument here - not a raging flame post.
As a recurring member of the CSM, whose duty it is to represent the players (something I took very seriously), I went to CCP to discuss the issue of microtransactions. In fact, this topic was discussed several times on CSM summits (both in October and in December). We were assured that microtransactions would be vanity items only.
I was told, to my face, that CCP would not sell anything in their virtual goods store that would not be a vanity item (vanity items being useless fluff, not giving any benefits). Now I read in your newsletter that one of your main game designers is openly argueing to break this promise. I take that as a personal insult and a clear sign of disrespect towards the Eve community as a whole. Shame on you for even considering to break your word!
I'm still subscribed, the but moment CCP will offer anything other than vanity items for PLEX/AURUM/etc is the moment I will cancel my accounts. In going for the 'hobbyist gamer' (casual gamers, even though eve isn't that casual gamer friendly), you seem to have forgotten a large part of your player base. The part that has shaped Eve over the years: the hardcore gamers. We don't come here as a hobby to experience an ultimate sci-fi simulator. We pay a subscription for an all-access pass to this crazy dystopian universe, where what you do, what you become and what you achieve comes down only to your skills, dedication and your effort. And because of that, our actions are meaningful.
By extending the virtual goods sales beyond vanity items you directly attack one of the things that seperates Eve from all the other MMOs out there: that actions are meaningful. If I can just buy faction standing, what meaning is there in doing missions for faction standings? What meaning is there in finally achieving 6.0 standing (for POSs) or 9.0 standing (for COSMOS missions)? And from what I read, that's not even the end of it!
Some people might enjoy spending more money 'on their hobby' like it was golf (an analogy that is inherently flawed, which I'll explain below), but due to the dystopian, merciless nature of Eve you've bred a community that exists for a large part out of hardcore players. People who see Eve as a serious business proving ground - not as a lighthearted diversion. These are the people who have allowed you to get to where you are today. These are the people who stuck by you over the past 8 years - even if they do call themselves "bittervets". To turn your back on those people is at best poor form, and at worst commercial suicide. Because Star Wars Galaxies has shown you can't just trade in one group of customers for another.
Why golf is not the same as eve Specifically, buying golfclubs isn't the same as buying items in Eve. The equivalent would be if you could pay $100 to get one swing/strike/whatever it's called removed from your record. Instead of making a hole in 5, you could pay $400 and get it listed as a hole in one! Suddenly, your golf stats won't depend on how good you are, but simply on how much money you're willing to spend. Try to suggest that to golfers and see how they like it.
In Eve, just flying a spaceship isn't all there is to the gameplay. The effort to GET that spaceship is part of the game. The fact that it isn't easy to obtain certain things, achieve certain things or do certain things is exactly what makes these things meaningful. Meaningful to me AND to others, who can see what I have achieved. And now some game designer would like to take that away? Bad move CCP.
This illustrates it well:
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:32:00 -
[27]
Originally by: I'm Down
Originally by: xeitgeist
The person who posted CCP's leaked documents has been permanently banned on all accounts. Let this be an lesson to all of you.
It violates the EULA... no really, not kidding it does.
CCP can DIAF
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:38:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Jaroslav Unwanted
Originally by: Aurora148
Originally by: xeitgeist
The person who posted CCP's leaked documents has been permanently banned on all accounts. Let this be an lesson to all of you.
he was banned for personal threats towards CCP employees in his petition
here: his GM reply
Pretty much. Why i understand the whole "Martyr thing" It was well deserved by my opinion. Or they can un-bann him and send police to arrest him and send to jail. Since i am quite sure that such behavior is not tolerated in modern society.
Haha what internet do you live on?
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:40:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Isis Soryu on 24/06/2011 12:40:37
Originally by: Carmine Lady
Originally by: Alexingeras 111 pages and still no proper answer from CCP. Fail damage control is fail.
correction 112 nearly 113
Don't worry we're close to a lock on this thread methinks.
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:43:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
Originally by: Republica Winder
Originally by: xeitgeist
The person who posted CCP's leaked documents has been permanently banned on all accounts. Let this be an lesson to all of you.
This has always been CCP's modus operendi. Did T20 get fired? NO, K got banned. Will Soundwave be fired? NO, the person who let us know what CCP was doing behind our backs gets banned.
You know, with Hulkageddon, Helicity has done more to bring content to EVE than THE LAST TWO YEARS WORTH OF EXPANSIONS! You should be ashamed, CCP. But you aren't, you're greed is showing.
Hulkageddon distracted half the userbase with "fun" and saved CCPs ass when their usual gameplay was broken... was it around the :18months: thing?
This. Come on CCP where is this bull**** devblog full of spin?
|
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:45:00 -
[31]
Originally by: neuroticdax
Originally by: Marcus Vorenius A humble suggestion to my fellow pitchfork-wielding peasants:
There are a lot of old timers coming out of the woodwork and posting their opinions and there are some very good posts in here that we want CCP management to read - spamming in this thread is counter productive.
second
It doesn't matter, they're just going to lie to us some more.
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:47:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Istyn CCP Herpherp (the CEO), deleted his post on twitter in reply to this thread where he asked if they should also remove PLEX from the game. gg.
Imagine that. Keep shoveling the deception CCP, I love it.
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:49:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Dierdra Vaal I feel sad that this has happened - and sad that I need to write this post (not just because it'll probably get buried under 9000 other posts). However, I hope this will be read because I am trying to make a reasonable argument here - not a raging flame post.
As a recurring member of the CSM, whose duty it is to represent the players (something I took very seriously), I went to CCP to discuss the issue of microtransactions. In fact, this topic was discussed several times on CSM summits (both in October and in December). We were assured that microtransactions would be vanity items only.
I was told, to my face, that CCP would not sell anything in their virtual goods store that would not be a vanity item (vanity items being useless fluff, not giving any benefits). Now I read in your newsletter that one of your main game designers is openly argueing to break this promise. I take that as a personal insult and a clear sign of disrespect towards the Eve community as a whole. Shame on you for even considering to break your word!
I'm still subscribed, the but moment CCP will offer anything other than vanity items for PLEX/AURUM/etc is the moment I will cancel my accounts. In going for the 'hobbyist gamer' (casual gamers, even though eve isn't that casual gamer friendly), you seem to have forgotten a large part of your player base. The part that has shaped Eve over the years: the hardcore gamers. We don't come here as a hobby to experience an ultimate sci-fi simulator. We pay a subscription for an all-access pass to this crazy dystopian universe, where what you do, what you become and what you achieve comes down only to your skills, dedication and your effort. And because of that, our actions are meaningful.
By extending the virtual goods sales beyond vanity items you directly attack one of the things that seperates Eve from all the other MMOs out there: that actions are meaningful. If I can just buy faction standing, what meaning is there in doing missions for faction standings? What meaning is there in finally achieving 6.0 standing (for POSs) or 9.0 standing (for COSMOS missions)? And from what I read, that's not even the end of it!
Some people might enjoy spending more money 'on their hobby' like it was golf (an analogy that is inherently flawed, which I'll explain below), but due to the dystopian, merciless nature of Eve you've bred a community that exists for a large part out of hardcore players. People who see Eve as a serious business proving ground - not as a lighthearted diversion. These are the people who have allowed you to get to where you are today. These are the people who stuck by you over the past 8 years - even if they do call themselves "bittervets". To turn your back on those people is at best poor form, and at worst commercial suicide. Because Star Wars Galaxies has shown you can't just trade in one group of customers for another.
Why golf is not the same as eve Specifically, buying golfclubs isn't the same as buying items in Eve. The equivalent would be if you could pay $100 to get one swing/strike/whatever it's called removed from your record. Instead of making a hole in 5, you could pay $400 and get it listed as a hole in one! Suddenly, your golf stats won't depend on how good you are, but simply on how much money you're willing to spend. Try to suggest that to golfers and see how they like it.
In Eve, just flying a spaceship isn't all there is to the gameplay. The effort to GET that spaceship is part of the game. The fact that it isn't easy to obtain certain things, achieve certain things or do certain things is exactly what makes these things meaningful. Meaningful to me AND to others, who can see what I have achieved. And now some game designer would like to take that away? Bad move CCP.
This illustrates it well:
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:51:00 -
[34]
Originally by: BlackSunMiner
waits for ban.
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 13:03:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Karol Kei
Originally by: Istyn CCP Herpherp (the CEO), deleted his post on twitter in reply to this thread where he asked if they should also remove PLEX from the game. gg.
I sincerely hope that as a CEO of a middle sized company he understands that there is all the difference between:
- Selling PLEX for ISK to a dynamic and limited market with limited supply and demand and prices adjusting accordingly
- Buying items directly from unlimited supply from the devs with fixed prices
As well as:
- Using PLEX to get ISK to buy ingame items that have been and indeed can be manufactured in game
- Using PLEX to buy items that cannot be manufactured in the game that have ingame benefits
Buying directly from CCP removes the mechanisms that make the PLEX trading as it is tolerable. I will not speak for anyone else, but I personally can tolerate it as far as it is vanity items only.
Make no mistake though, CCP, I cannot and will not tolerate it if it extends to items with benefits.
Furthermore, with this action you are robbing the subscription fees of ours that have been and would be used to develop these items. They belong to the market as BPO's to further enhance the game. That is what we are paying you for.
CCP Soundwave should be repositioned.
Also 2003 player here. Please don't stop posting to this thread. Volume is the only thing CCP might listen to, although I doubt that they will.
He and most of the people in CCP are totally out of touch. So much so it's almost laughable, no wait it is laughable.
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 13:19:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Dierdra Vaal I feel sad that this has happened - and sad that I need to write this post (not just because it'll probably get buried under 9000 other posts). However, I hope this will be read because I am trying to make a reasonable argument here - not a raging flame post.
As a recurring member of the CSM, whose duty it is to represent the players (something I took very seriously), I went to CCP to discuss the issue of microtransactions. In fact, this topic was discussed several times on CSM summits (both in October and in December). We were assured that microtransactions would be vanity items only.
I was told, to my face, that CCP would not sell anything in their virtual goods store that would not be a vanity item (vanity items being useless fluff, not giving any benefits). Now I read in your newsletter that one of your main game designers is openly argueing to break this promise. I take that as a personal insult and a clear sign of disrespect towards the Eve community as a whole. Shame on you for even considering to break your word!
I'm still subscribed, the but moment CCP will offer anything other than vanity items for PLEX/AURUM/etc is the moment I will cancel my accounts. In going for the 'hobbyist gamer' (casual gamers, even though eve isn't that casual gamer friendly), you seem to have forgotten a large part of your player base. The part that has shaped Eve over the years: the hardcore gamers. We don't come here as a hobby to experience an ultimate sci-fi simulator. We pay a subscription for an all-access pass to this crazy dystopian universe, where what you do, what you become and what you achieve comes down only to your skills, dedication and your effort. And because of that, our actions are meaningful.
By extending the virtual goods sales beyond vanity items you directly attack one of the things that seperates Eve from all the other MMOs out there: that actions are meaningful. If I can just buy faction standing, what meaning is there in doing missions for faction standings? What meaning is there in finally achieving 6.0 standing (for POSs) or 9.0 standing (for COSMOS missions)? And from what I read, that's not even the end of it!
Some people might enjoy spending more money 'on their hobby' like it was golf (an analogy that is inherently flawed, which I'll explain below), but due to the dystopian, merciless nature of Eve you've bred a community that exists for a large part out of hardcore players. People who see Eve as a serious business proving ground - not as a lighthearted diversion. These are the people who have allowed you to get to where you are today. These are the people who stuck by you over the past 8 years - even if they do call themselves "bittervets". To turn your back on those people is at best poor form, and at worst commercial suicide. Because Star Wars Galaxies has shown you can't just trade in one group of customers for another.
Why golf is not the same as eve Specifically, buying golfclubs isn't the same as buying items in Eve. The equivalent would be if you could pay $100 to get one swing/strike/whatever it's called removed from your record. Instead of making a hole in 5, you could pay $400 and get it listed as a hole in one! Suddenly, your golf stats won't depend on how good you are, but simply on how much money you're willing to spend. Try to suggest that to golfers and see how they like it.
In Eve, just flying a spaceship isn't all there is to the gameplay. The effort to GET that spaceship is part of the game. The fact that it isn't easy to obtain certain things, achieve certain things or do certain things is exactly what makes these things meaningful. Meaningful to me AND to others, who can see what I have achieved. And now some game designer would like to take that away? Bad move CCP.
This illustrates it well:
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 13:31:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Sloshyblooms
Originally by: Tippia You no longer have the confidence of the community. You have managed to contradict and suppress yourself into a position of zero trustworthiness. This is not something you can ôPRö yourselves out of ù it requires a drastic change in organisational culture (good luck), a drastic change in communications strategy (good luck), and, yes, quite possibly killing some of your darlings (tough luck).
Well said and QFT.
This is a good post.
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 13:33:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Dierdra Vaal I feel sad that this has happened - and sad that I need to write this post (not just because it'll probably get buried under 9000 other posts). However, I hope this will be read because I am trying to make a reasonable argument here - not a raging flame post.
As a recurring member of the CSM, whose duty it is to represent the players (something I took very seriously), I went to CCP to discuss the issue of microtransactions. In fact, this topic was discussed several times on CSM summits (both in October and in December). We were assured that microtransactions would be vanity items only.
I was told, to my face, that CCP would not sell anything in their virtual goods store that would not be a vanity item (vanity items being useless fluff, not giving any benefits). Now I read in your newsletter that one of your main game designers is openly argueing to break this promise. I take that as a personal insult and a clear sign of disrespect towards the Eve community as a whole. Shame on you for even considering to break your word!
I'm still subscribed, the but moment CCP will offer anything other than vanity items for PLEX/AURUM/etc is the moment I will cancel my accounts. In going for the 'hobbyist gamer' (casual gamers, even though eve isn't that casual gamer friendly), you seem to have forgotten a large part of your player base. The part that has shaped Eve over the years: the hardcore gamers. We don't come here as a hobby to experience an ultimate sci-fi simulator. We pay a subscription for an all-access pass to this crazy dystopian universe, where what you do, what you become and what you achieve comes down only to your skills, dedication and your effort. And because of that, our actions are meaningful.
By extending the virtual goods sales beyond vanity items you directly attack one of the things that seperates Eve from all the other MMOs out there: that actions are meaningful. If I can just buy faction standing, what meaning is there in doing missions for faction standings? What meaning is there in finally achieving 6.0 standing (for POSs) or 9.0 standing (for COSMOS missions)? And from what I read, that's not even the end of it!
Some people might enjoy spending more money 'on their hobby' like it was golf (an analogy that is inherently flawed, which I'll explain below), but due to the dystopian, merciless nature of Eve you've bred a community that exists for a large part out of hardcore players. People who see Eve as a serious business proving ground - not as a lighthearted diversion. These are the people who have allowed you to get to where you are today. These are the people who stuck by you over the past 8 years - even if they do call themselves "bittervets". To turn your back on those people is at best poor form, and at worst commercial suicide. Because Star Wars Galaxies has shown you can't just trade in one group of customers for another.
Why golf is not the same as eve Specifically, buying golfclubs isn't the same as buying items in Eve. The equivalent would be if you could pay $100 to get one swing/strike/whatever it's called removed from your record. Instead of making a hole in 5, you could pay $400 and get it listed as a hole in one! Suddenly, your golf stats won't depend on how good you are, but simply on how much money you're willing to spend. Try to suggest that to golfers and see how they like it.
In Eve, just flying a spaceship isn't all there is to the gameplay. The effort to GET that spaceship is part of the game. The fact that it isn't easy to obtain certain things, achieve certain things or do certain things is exactly what makes these things meaningful. Meaningful to me AND to others, who can see what I have achieved. And now some game designer would like to take that away? Bad move CCP.
This illustrates it well:
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 13:41:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Isis Soryu on 24/06/2011 13:41:50
Originally by: Jin Leegai Maybe we should try not to resort to personal attacks, death threats, and memes.
It does not help our side of the argument at all.
We were promised our spin devblog today and here we are over half way through CCP's workday and not ****. How long do you think ****ed off players who act like like lunatics when things don't go this wrong will be civil?
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 13:50:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Vandrion
Originally by: Vandrion Qouted from the Beginnings Blog on the Dust514 site:
"DUST 514 will, as EVE Online does, have a dynamic virtual economy and market that offers the tools that will give you a competitive edge, when used skillfully. Players are able to purchase different gear to equip before deploying into battle, using InterStellar Kredits (ISK), the in-game earned currency of the EVE universe, or through real money currency, called Aurum (AUR). This provides players with flexibility and adaptability in how they approach a combat scenario. Certain items are only available through ISK transactions, while others are only available through AUR. These are then traded freely on a player-driven secondary marketplace."
So... CCP is including AUR in DUST which further ties it into Eve and explains why CCP isn't listening to the feedback from the players.
http://www.dust514.com/en/news/?article=1980
"RPS: So, if IÆm an EVE player, how is my game going to change after DUST is released?
Torfi: Well, you have the ability to be more strategic when you are conquering planets and solar systems, in nulsec. Those are the main touchpoints. Highsec carebears need not worry. The same for lowsec. The main touchpoint upon the launch of DUST, will be in nulsec, will be in sovereignty, will be in inflicting damage and destruction and death upon your enemies, destroying their infrastructure and their means to survive, either by means or scorched earth or by stealing their installations on the surfaces of planets. There will be more going on on the surfaces of planets. WeÆve introduced mechanics allowing people to manufacture goods on the planets, but planets will play a more pivotal role in sovereignty mechanics further down the line."
Snippet of the RPS interview on Dust 514
So not only will the dust players spend RL cash to buy an advantage in their game, they will be using that RL cash purchase to buy an advantage in OUR sov warfare.
With the roll out of Dust 514 CCP is going to allow MT to have game altering effects. However insignificant it may appear it IS going to happen.
CCP has invested too much into their new baby to allow us to change their mind.........
WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO ANSWER THE MT QUESTION CCP?????? Man up and do it so we don't waste anymore of our money!
LOOK TO THE FUTURE PEOPLE!
Vanity MT is the first step to acclimating the players to what is coming. CCP is going to sit back and make the promise not to do any MT other then vanity (A blatant lie). When Dust rolls out and the first WTFBBQ Insta Dread Popper gun gets bought from their money store for $4.95 and pops a dread fleet the crap will hit the fan again..... What is after that????? CCP statement:
To bring Eve more inline with DUST and to make it a more even playing field we will be adding items to the money store that you can purchase with your Tribble Tokens. These items will give special bonuses to ship shielding and ground based damaged systems. BLAH BLAH BLAH
It breaks my heart to type anymore about what is planned for the future of Eve......
More like $495.00 am I right?
|
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 13:54:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Raivi
Originally by: Zverofaust
Think this sums it up nicely.
Worth repeating so devs in the thread will notice. Documents like that that cut through the trolling and white noise are going to be very valuable in the hours ahead.
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 13:56:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Vim Helicity organizing the forumwarriorsunitedmobile and using alts etc to further inflame the discussion? Making alot of trouble where little should have been had? Keep a permaban on that no good purulent wound on a donkeys dug. If the warriorbrigade had not risen to free helicity of a simple forum ban, CCP could probably have comeout with an explanation much faster. Now they got threadnaughted by alts with only one agenda: Our buddie is butthurt and rallying us. Because a lowly forum moderater banned her. The forum ban of helicity would have been lifted by now if helicity hadnt massed her armies to cause ccp grief, nerdrage much. Now heli is permabanned. Yeah I would have done that to.
If you honest to god think this rage has anything to do with Helicity's ban you're a new kind of special.
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 14:39:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Isis Soryu on 24/06/2011 14:39:52
Quote: ArnarHrafn Arnar Hrafn Gylfason is writing words #eveonline #tweetfleet 18 minutes ago
Spinblog incoming
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 14:42:00 -
[44]
Originally by: El'Niaga So like its past tea time now, and still you haven't gotten this response out?
Don't worry the spinblog is almost here!
Quote:
Edited by: Isis Soryu on 24/06/2011 14:39:52
Quote: ArnarHrafn Arnar Hrafn Gylfason is writing words #eveonline #tweetfleet 18 minutes ago
Spinblog incoming
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:19:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Isis Soryu on 24/06/2011 15:19:38 Edited by: Isis Soryu on 24/06/2011 15:19:21
Originally by: Ghost Nightmare Where is this response theyve been talking about then?
Their spinblog is coming
Quote: ArnarHrafn Arnar Hrafn Gylfason is writing words #eveonline #tweetfleet 58 minutes ago
Spinblog incoming
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:22:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Isis Soryu on 24/06/2011 15:22:32
Originally by: Mehrdad Kor-Azor
Originally by: Olaf Rasmussen Dont go all "Well MT is good, if its only vanity and its awwright"
AURUM and all assosiated bull**** needs to disappear. No compromises anymore.
So true. MT is a slippery slope, always has been.
This
Quote: ArnarHrafn Arnar Hrafn Gylfason is writing words #eveonline #tweetfleet 60 minutes ago
Spinblog incoming
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:26:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Reed Tiburon
Originally by: Macon Squaredealer Where the hell is the "NO, we will never even consider moving beyond VANITY AUR items" ??? How hard is that to say?
They won't say that, not in a million years. What they will say is:
- this newsletter was a brainstorming session
- They cannot promise anything about the future
- They're very sorry (that they're not sorry)
- It was a draft
- They will iterate on it
Quote: ArnarHrafn Arnar Hrafn Gylfason is writing words #eveonline #tweetfleet 60 minutes ago
Spinblog incoming
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:28:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Ranka Mei I thought we were gonna get an official reply today?
We are. Soon(tm)
Quote: ArnarHrafn Arnar Hrafn Gylfason is writing words #eveonline #tweetfleet 60 minutes ago
Spinblog incoming
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:44:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Sarina Berghil
Originally by: Marcus Vorenius
Originally by: Nikodiemus FRIENDS! There is a reason for this horrible incident and lack of communication and salesmanship.
CCP Hiring New Chief Marketing Officer
Someone should apply since CSM is obviously bull**** and kill the lies from within.
Was there a Chief Marketing Officer before? Normally Sales & Marketing reports to the CFO - this just proves that CCP new business plan is already being implemented ... or that they realised the current CFO is an incompetent money grabbing coward.
I couldn't help to notice this little snip from the job details:
Quote:
... leading thought innovation in marketing to the point of inspiring development rather than be framed by it.
When marketeers start to make game design decisions, its time to leave the sinking ship.
QFT x 10000
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:21:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Isis Soryu on 24/06/2011 16:21:32
Originally by: Ranka Mei Edited by: Ranka Mei on 24/06/2011 16:18:42
Originally by: Mechael
1. The "CCP employer" expressing his "opinion" is a lead game designer.
That has already removed visibility of faction standings so they can sell them. That has already moved fittings server side and limited you to 50 so they can sell you more.
Oh, THAT's why they removed visibility of faction standings... so they can sell them.
But this is not CCP actually implementing these plans or anything. /sarcasm
And the message is in the open, how long before the Faction Towers are back for Aur?
|
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:33:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Rixiu
Originally by: FIliphys In all seriousness, its good to see that CCP isn't just completely ignoring the situation.
Because they totally aren't :P
We'll soon see poor CCP Zulu be thrown in front of the bus while the fat executives do nothing.
Was it ever really going to be any other way?
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:50:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Jaroslav Unwanted
Just because someone got different opinion ? Really ??
Well you can try to explain why. Instead of it. It would be actually far more productive.
Nerves are frayed, some are tired, many have done the explanation many times and are simply tired of doing it. Doubt they meant anything personal by it.
The main over riding issue is that micro-transaction items require virtually no input from the sandbox to create. For example, a ship magically created removes all the potential game play that the production of that ship would have required from the sandbox.
This removal of game play, of value, is taken from the noob miner to the 0.0 miner, to the can flipper to the hot dropper and his 23 SuperCap friends out on a Sunday afternoon drive. Each micro-transaction created item takes a tiny bit from everyone, as more and more MT items are created, those tiny bits add up until the sandbox has no meaning.
Purely cosmetic vanity items, although they could have an impact on certain aspects of the sandbox, they have a far less value at a mechanical level, and thus, have far less mechanical impact on the sandbox.
Although some argue PLEX is a micro-transaction, this is demonstrably false. The ISK for which that PLEX is sold, was collected by someone in the game doing whatever it is they do. Thy put forth an effort and got a reward of ISK. They then trade that ISK for a PLEX. The guy who sold the PLEX now has the ISK, and the other guy has the PLEX. Nothing was added or removed from the sandbox, except the need for one or both of them to break the EULA. CCP profits and the players profit from PLEX.
The only ones who profit from MTs are CCP, and they do so not only at the expense of the $Cash spender, but of everyone in the game that now no longer has the opportunity to participate in the creation of the MT created items.
MTs are theft.
QFT
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:54:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Yo****aka Moromuo
Originally by: Reptail Rabble
This, quite effectively, sums up most of the content of this thread. Between all of the obscenely large and colored text, gratuitous line breaks, and the people who attack even the slightest bit of politeness offered by a CCP employee, this thread has gone far off its intended direction.
Better to have it locked at this point, until people realize what a request for parley is.
And that request has been denied by a lot of rage? What did they expect?
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:56:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Bloodpetal
It's to divert your eyes to the NeX! hahaha
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:59:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Myz Toyou Reinforced 0.0 system for epic battles: Sevenbazillion AUR
It's more likely than you think.
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:02:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Erinni Tisifone i wanto the mounts to walkin my CQ!!!!! NOW!!! 1.000.000 AUR is enought?? http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=891
You sure as hell need them with how slow you walk!
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:06:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Eladaris Edited by: Eladaris on 24/06/2011 17:05:41
Originally by: CCP Pann Edited by: CCP Pann on 24/06/2011 00:50:29 Hi, everyone
Some of you who have been around for a while may remember me. I was the original community manager for EVE. These days, I oversee the PR and Community teams. While most of what I do happens behind the curtains, I am still aware of whatÆs going on front and center. I would be lying if I said that whatÆs happening now didnÆt make me sad, but IÆm not here to ask for your sympathy. To be perfectly honest, IÆm here to buy time while we try to sort things out. No sense in lying about it so I'll call a spade a spade.
ItÆs clear that many of you are <understatement alert> angry </alert>. ThereÆs a lot happening, things are changing quickly and we havenÆt been as forthcoming as you were used to in the past. IÆm willing to step out front and take a lot of heat for that since I was the one who made the decision to hold off on responding for a while to see if things cooled down once the new wore off. I was wrong to do that and I apologize. We should have said something much sooner. We should have done more to address your concerns and be forthcoming, even if we werenÆt going to be able to immediately give you all of the answers you were looking for or the answer your questions in ways that will instantly turn those frowns upside down. To be even more candid, I cannot answer all of your questions, either, but I am working with the people who can to start getting those answers for you. Again, I know weÆre doing this past the expiration date of your patience but I hope youÆll bear with me. I know that, with very few exceptions, most of you donÆt know me from Adam. I havenÆt earned your trust or respect; therefore I have no right to ask anything of you û but I am going to try, anyway. Can I please count on at least some of you to help bring the pitchforks and torches down a few notches?
Like I said, I wonÆt be able to answer all of your questions tonight, but I promise weÆll start getting some info out tomorrow. As I see it, the chief complaint is regarding the high cost of goods in the Noble Market. Second, many people are unhappy about the CaptainÆs Quarters. Third, there are some performance issues with Incarna. I would appreciate it if you would confirm my observations or tell me what IÆm missing, but I do ask that you do it in a productive way. I will remove posts without prejudice if they are counterproductive to the conversation I hope to have with you.
If youÆve read this much, thanks for staying with me. If you have something to say, IÆd like very much to hear it.
Humbly yours, ~P~
*edited to fix a "doh!" typo
Posted - 24/06/2011 00:30:00
I'm fairly certain a conversation requires two to tango. Other than letting us know that A) the newsletter was real, and B) AUR and MT is never going away from Eve we haven't seen much feedback.
And now it's after 5pm your time right? So we get to stew in our own juices until Monday? Yes, we appreciate that you popped on at 12:30am to start this thread... but surely a few simple words could get folks to settle a bit?
HAHA, if they do, it'll be the biggest mistake yet.
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:32:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Riflin' Betty Liang Nuren is now also banned.
I can only assume Akita T is next.
We're out of the fight capsuleers, stay strong.
I salute you all o7
-Helicity
What the ****? What for?
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:35:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Reed Tiburon
Originally by: Riflin' Betty Liang Nuren is now also banned.
I can only assume Akita T is next.
We're out of the fight capsuleers, stay strong.
I salute you all o7
-Helicity
Are you kidding me? Ridiculous.
Keep digging that hole, CCP. I hear that's the best way to get out.
This is ****ing pathetic. ****
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:41:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Ancy Denaries As far as I am aware, Helicity got a WELL DESERVED ban for being a complete jackass and suggesting suicide to a CCP member.
And what the **** did Liang do? He's always been a good poster.
|
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:45:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Mamayev Kurgan It's against the rules to discuss forum bans.. so I won't ...
I'm sure liang did NOT get banned for NOT calling a spade a spade
**** them, they ban to censor the people who were openly critical first. They can eat ****. I'll discuss it all I want.
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:48:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Ender sup It's not about the lies anymore, it's about what you plan on doing next ccp.
Originally by: BLITZZ55 DID I HEAR CORRECT SHIP COULD BE SOLD FOR PLEXE AND SKILL POINTS TOO WHAT MADNESS IS THIS!!!!
DONT DO IT CCP DONT RUIN THIS GREAT GAME I LOVE EVE , I LOVE YOU GUYS DONT MAKE ME HAVE TO LEAVE BECAUSE YOUR GOING TO DUMB IT DOWN AND RUIN THE GAME!!!!!!
Well ccp is in the "selling time" market so yes it's coming.
What they do next is ban ban ban
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:51:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Velicitia
Originally by: diaufop Edited by: diaufop on 24/06/2011 17:35:59
Originally by: Riflin' Betty Liang Nuren is now also banned.
I can only assume Akita T is next.
We're out of the fight capsuleers, stay strong.
I salute you all o7
-Helicity
might as well ban us all then...
A-****ing-men
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:56:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Tali Ambraelle I honestly hope they do ban you all so they can get back to adding to the game. I want to see new CQ's some time soon.
Oh and yes, I AM willing to pay AUR for them :)
Keep white-knighting idiot.
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:58:00 -
[65]
Originally by: tortangularaski Shi IS this where we buy drakes?
with Aurum? Yes 18000 please.
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 18:38:00 -
[66]
Originally by: The Mittani I'm late to the threadnaught because I was out drinking last night and then sleeping it off. Whoops.
Points:
*Making martyrs out of Helicity and Liang is an act of comic incompetence, mid-PR-disaster.
*Greed is Good is a typical example of CCP's absolutely awful messaging. The contents itself are fairly innocuous; the one guy mentioning selling ammo is just some mook, not a producer of consequence. All the same, they might as well have had an internal newsletter called "I WANT TO **** MY CUSTOMERS" as far as the messaging impact is concerned.
The timing of GiG leaking with the NeX opening is masterful on the part of the leakers and awful for CCP.
*I don't care about NeX prices. They can charge hundreds of dollars for sparkleponies and monocles and I don't give a rat's ass - I'm here for the spaceships.
My concerns are keeping microtransactions away from the combat gameplay and fighting for balance and an improved spaceship-on-spaceship experience. Lag, supercapital imbalance, iterative ship balance, all of these things matter far more to me than a store with clothes for a space barbie.
Something I can finally agree with The Mittens about, this must be hell.
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:15:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Captain Travaras Edited by: Captain Travaras on 24/06/2011 19:13:48 to those that have not yet seen it, the protest in Jita is amazing
here is the link for a live stream
http://www.justin.tv/deamosseraph#/w/1380742320
It's a nice sight for sure. Kinda wish they could crash the node.
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:44:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Reed Tiburon
Originally by: shilpi We want Answers and we want them Now!!!!!
And unban the players you are banning just because they are raising this issue on the player's behalf
In before the ban.
Lol still haven't banned me yet, am surprised.
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 20:09:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
Originally by: Garreth Vlox
....them banning ppl in local isnt making them any friends either, kinda like macing a crowd all it does is **** them off.
That's what makes it so good to watch!
Are they really ****ing banning people in local? HAHAHA, HOW IDIOTIC ARE THESE *******S?
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 20:14:00 -
[70]
Quote: CCP Fallout Arnar's blog should be ready and published in about an hour, but that is an estimate. 51 seconds ago
Why we aren't hearing from Hilmar him ****ing self is beyond me.
|
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 20:21:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Tea Ester Elliot
Originally by: Isis Soryu
Quote: CCP Fallout Arnar's blog should be ready and published in about an hour, but that is an estimate. 51 seconds ago
Why we aren't hearing from Hilmar him ****ing self is beyond me.
CBA to post during minor forum upsets, tbh.
Well until he can be bothered to address his customers, I can't be bothered to give any credence to his spinblog doctor Zulu or bothered to pay his fat ass salary with anymore of my cash.
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 20:25:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Zanziba'ar I don't see what peoples problem is. Who cares if CCP haven't told us everything They have made an amazing game Get over it.
Eat me ****face.
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 20:28:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Mittava Ankara Jorma
Originally by: CCP Manifest
CCP Zulu will be finishing and publishing his dev blog in around an hour, but less. We will start a comment thread, as always.
Please call him on the phone and make sure it contains a loud and clear answer to the one relevant question: Will AUR be used for anything other than vanity items? If it doesn't it's a waste of my time and at this point I do take it personally, after reading what your collegues think of me and my fellow gamers.
Screw that, call his ass and tell him to send Hilmar cause I don't give a **** what Zulu has to say.
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 20:36:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Velicitia
Originally by: 50freefly I personally think we should just revert back to summer 2007 eve. That includes a full rollback, meaning a deletion of all accounts created after that date.
/me looks at "born on" date...
\/ I make the cut!
My main makes the cut but none of my alts do.
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 20:52:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Qwyp
Originally by: Lithia Tsanov Wow... Just wow.
I'm gone "the second" people can pay cash for IG items.
Are you a tard?
you can buy anything in Eve for cash, always have... buy plex for cash sell for isk and buy whatever you want.
i've been buying ships, modules, officer lewtz for cash for many years
Apparently you're the tard.
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 20:56:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Lykouleon
Originally by: CCP Manifest
CCP Zulu will be finishing and publishing his dev blog in around an hour, but less. We will start a comment thread, as always.
I don't like saying this...but having CCP Zulu address this is not the wisest choice. His ideas and blogs typically do not go over well with the community.
I await with baited breath, but I expect that this blog isn't going to be what the community wants by a long shot.
Agreed, we should be hearing from Hilmar.
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 21:00:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Isis Soryu on 24/06/2011 21:00:44 http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=932
ARE YOU ****ING KIDDING ME?
|
Isis Soryu
Caldari Universitas Interimo Research
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 21:03:00 -
[78]
**** THIS **** I'M OUT
|
|
|
|