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EVE: The last of the sub based MMO?

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Lilianna Star SAZI Enterprises The Aslyum 112	Posted - 2012.09.14 05:40:00 - [1] - Quote From what I can tell, EVE is the only one with a steadily growing playerbase. Or is at least the largest one. With sub based MMOs being a dying breed, this is rather surprising. What might help this is the fact that EVE has built the game from the ground up to support subscriptions and, to my knowledge, no game functions with it better. This game simply wouldn't work as well being free to play or buy to play. Will EVE outlast the competition going into a world where subs for MMOs just isn't palpable? What do you think?
Ensign X 211	Posted - 2012.09.14 05:40:00 - [2] - Quote Huh?
Lilianna Star SAZI Enterprises The Aslyum 112	Posted - 2012.09.14 05:42:00 - [3] - Quote Ensign X wrote: Huh? Do you think EVE will be the last of the sub based MMOs still functioning?
rodyas Tie Fighters Inc 736	Posted - 2012.09.14 05:45:00 - [4] - Quote We will always be the dead star that orbits the WoW planet. I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me.
Lilianna Star SAZI Enterprises The Aslyum 112	Posted - 2012.09.14 05:47:00 - [5] - Quote rodyas wrote: We will always be the dead star that orbits the WoW planet. My crystal ball says they're going to change their feelings on free to play when their subs drop low enough. Then again, I got the thing at Wal-mart so I wouldn't trust it. shrug
Ambo I've Got Nothing 32	Posted - 2012.09.14 05:47:00 - [6] - Quote Actually, eve is free to play. As long as you have/make enough isk to buy a plex a month. I suspect that if it wasn't for this mechanism, subscriber nuMbers would be a fair bit lower.
Ioci Bad Girl Posse 199	Posted - 2012.09.14 05:47:00 - [7] - Quote Most 2006 and earlier MMO's are sub based. Dark Age of Camelot I think has title on oldest. I don't know that for certain though. WoW, EQ, older MMO's with deep roots in the Veteran group. EVE will be around as long as any of them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg-_HeVNYOk Save Derpy!
Lilianna Star SAZI Enterprises The Aslyum 112	Posted - 2012.09.14 05:51:00 - [8] - Quote Ambo wrote: Actually, eve is free to play. As long as you have/make enough isk to buy a plex a month. I suspect that if it wasn't for this mechanism, subscriber nuMbers would be a fair bit lower. Someone still has to pay for the PLEx though. And it's still a time investment to continue playing.
Paul Oliver Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 2209	Posted - 2012.09.14 05:55:00 - [9] - Quote Rift is a subscription based game, and I believe it's population is still rising. Thing is their are only so many people willing to pay a subscription to play a video game, thus limiting the overall growth potential for such games, which is probably why most MMOs seem to go the F2P route. "Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must undergo the fatigues of supporting it." - Thomas Paine
Lilianna Star SAZI Enterprises The Aslyum 112	Posted - 2012.09.14 05:58:00 - [10] - Quote Paul Oliver wrote: Rift is a subscription based game, and I believe it's population is still rising. Thing is their are only so many people willing to pay a subscription to play a video game, thus limiting the overall growth potential for such games, which is probably why most MMOs seem to go the F2P route. Sad to say, but RIFT's population spiked. Shame too since it was quite interesting.
Nyla Skin Maximum fun chamber 82	Posted - 2012.09.14 05:59:00 - [11] - Quote The biggest problem with free2play is that the IQ of the playerbase seems to go down dramatically and the idiocy in general chat goes up. Eve has so many players that kind of already like that here, but there are games where the change has been quite dramatic. Its kind of like if you need to go to a public toilet. As public WC's go, you would rather use one that charges 10 pence or something insignificant instead of going to one that is completely free. Because that 10p is enough to keep the drug addicts, hobos and such from making a mess of the inside. The ones that you need to pay for are much cleaner inside.
Lilianna Star SAZI Enterprises The Aslyum 112	Posted - 2012.09.14 06:04:00 - [12] - Quote Nyla Skin wrote: The biggest problem with free2play is that the IQ of the playerbase seems to go down dramatically and the idiocy in general chat goes up. Eve has so many players that kind of already like that here, but there are games where the change has been quite dramatic. Its kind of like if you need to go to a public toilet. As public WC's go, you would rather use one that charges 10 pence or something insignificant instead of going to one that is completely free. Because that 10p is enough to keep the drug addicts, hobos and such from making a mess of the inside. The ones that you need to pay for are much cleaner inside. To be fair, if there's any game that can drive off an idiot, it's EVE. "Only 9 days to get into a battleship? WOOHOO!" 9 days later "OMG I lost my battleship! Why didn't anyone tell me losses are permanent!? This game sucks. leaves" Actually, to be honest I can't imagine this game functioning as well under free to play or even buy to play because of how well subscriptions are integrated. It allows people with more money than time to catch up with their friends easily with the PLEx system. And the skill system is clearly built around subscriptions.
Jerick Ludhowe Toxic Waste Industries 150	Posted - 2012.09.14 06:05:00 - [13] - Quote CCP managed to kill the true sandbox as well as turn their game into pay to win (not as bad as other games) the moment plex hit the scene. Treating eve like a strict monthly sub game is simply misguided.
pussnheels The Fiction Factory 590	Posted - 2012.09.14 06:10:00 - [14] - Quote nothing is free to play not even F2P if youplay a F2p game eventually you wiill pay just to pass a certain level cap or you will pay to use a certain powerfull item etc etc eventually you pay more than what you pay for a sub Second F2p works fine on a MMO with 100 s of different serrvers EvE is not, introducing F2P will create a unnbalance between people willi ng to pay for their toys and people who can't afford it or are not willing to pay for it I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Lilianna Star SAZI Enterprises The Aslyum 112	Posted - 2012.09.14 06:17:00 - [15] - Quote pussnheels wrote: nothing is free to play not even F2P if youplay a F2p game eventually you wiill pay just to pass a certain level cap or you will pay to use a certain powerfull item etc etc eventually you pay more than what you pay for a sub Second F2p works fine on a MMO with 100 s of different serrvers EvE is not, introducing F2P will create a unnbalance between people willi ng to pay for their toys and people who can't afford it or are not willing to pay for it What you describe is bad free to play MMOs. Good free to play games allow playing for free to be palpable while still giving plenty of reasons to pay some money. League of Legends, while not a true MMO, has this aspect down pat and that's one of the reasons why it is so popular today.
Astroniomix Thorn Project 180	Posted - 2012.09.14 06:24:00 - [16] - Quote Lilianna Star wrote: EDIT: To elaborate on that further, the mentality that WoW built up is that you're worthless until cap level. With the current skill system, it might encourage players not to play until they have all their skills up to par. Since time is free. But if players are paying for their time, it encourages them to make better use of it and get the experience they need to flourish. You also have to keep in mind the fact that in order to PVP in WoW you have to resign yourself to getting curbstomped by total mouthbreathers for a while, and for no other reason than their gear is better than yours. EvE PVP, no amount of officer equipment can help an idiot do well.
Nyla Skin Maximum fun chamber 82	Posted - 2012.09.14 06:25:00 - [17] - Quote Jerick Ludhowe wrote: CCP managed to kill the true sandbox as well as turn their game into pay to win (not as bad as other games) the moment plex hit the scene. Treating eve like a strict monthly sub game is simply misguided. This I agree with..
Astroniomix Thorn Project 181	Posted - 2012.09.14 06:30:00 - [18] - Quote Jerick Ludhowe wrote: CCP managed to kill the true sandbox as well as turn their game into pay to win (not as bad as other games) the moment plex hit the scene. Treating eve like a strict monthly sub game is simply misguided. This statement is so untrue as to not even be funny. As I already said in my earlier post, a skilled player will beat a well geared player ALL-DAY-LONG.
Webvan State War Academy Caldari State 59	Posted - 2012.09.14 06:42:00 - [19] - Quote Ioci wrote: Dark Age of Camelot I think has title on oldest. UO's older. There is still a sub based MUD or two as well. WWII Online is still sub Ryzom is sub f2p is just not good for sandbox mmo's, and sadly this stupid f2p rage makes seeing more sandbox games even more doubtful than it already is.
Jerick Ludhowe Toxic Waste Industries 151	Posted - 2012.09.14 06:43:00 - [20] - Quote Astroniomix wrote: Jerick Ludhowe wrote: CCP managed to kill the true sandbox as well as turn their game into pay to win (not as bad as other games) the moment plex hit the scene. Treating eve like a strict monthly sub game is simply misguided. This statement is so untrue as to not even be funny. As I already said in my earlier post, a skilled player will beat a well geared player ALL-DAY-LONG. I know huge swathes of people that purchase plex to replace lost ships instead of farming or mining like players use to in the past... The options to invest real life cash to purchase a plex which is then used to obtain large amounts of in game currency is exactly pay to win, regardless of which way you want to spin it.
William Walker House Aratus Fatal Ascension 73	Posted - 2012.09.14 07:07:00 - [21] - Quote Webvan wrote: WWII Online is still sub WWII online went free to play
Astroniomix Thorn Project 186	Posted - 2012.09.14 07:14:00 - [22] - Quote Jerick Ludhowe wrote: Astroniomix wrote: Jerick Ludhowe wrote: CCP managed to kill the true sandbox as well as turn their game into pay to win (not as bad as other games) the moment plex hit the scene. Treating eve like a strict monthly sub game is simply misguided. This statement is so untrue as to not even be funny. As I already said in my earlier post, a skilled player will beat a well geared player ALL-DAY-LONG. I know huge swathes of people that purchase plex to replace lost ships instead of farming or mining like players use to in the past... The options to invest real life cash to purchase a plex which is then used to obtain large amounts of in game currency is exactly pay to win, regardless of which way you want to spin it. I guess if you define having stuff as "winning". They can't gain any tactical advantage by paying more RL iskies that I myself cannot gain from just spending in game iskies.
Paul Oliver Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 2227	Posted - 2012.09.14 07:16:00 - [23] - Quote But they can more easily afford things like gol...faction ammo and expensive ships which they have no fear of losing because they can always drop more rl money for plex and buy a new one. "Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must undergo the fatigues of supporting it." - Thomas Paine
Alphaphi Lost Society Get Off My Lawn 16	Posted - 2012.09.14 07:18:00 - [24] - Quote Jerick Ludhowe wrote: Astroniomix wrote: Jerick Ludhowe wrote: CCP managed to kill the true sandbox as well as turn their game into pay to win (not as bad as other games) the moment plex hit the scene. Treating eve like a strict monthly sub game is simply misguided. This statement is so untrue as to not even be funny. As I already said in my earlier post, a skilled player will beat a well geared player ALL-DAY-LONG. I know huge swathes of people that purchase plex to replace lost ships instead of farming or mining like players use to in the past... The options to invest real life cash to purchase a plex which is then used to obtain large amounts of in game currency is exactly pay to win, regardless of which way you want to spin it. That's not pay to win. no matter how much plex they buy, and how many ships they replace, it still won't change the fact that said player might not have proper skills trained to support the ships potential, thus leaving him to more fail and lost ships. you are not getting anything superior that non-plexing players can't get, the only thing that you are getting is your items (which all other players can obtain and use just as good with the same skills as you trained) therefore, it's not pay to win. Paul Oliver wrote: But they can more easily afford things like gol...faction ammo and expensive ships which they have no fear of losing because they can always drop more rl money for plex and buy a new one. they can afford to lose it, and replace it. which brings us back to one of the most basic rules of eve: if you can't afford to lose it, don't fly it. players who fly those ships, buying Plex or not, can usually afford to replace it. unless they are carebearing high-sec missioners that likes to pimp their vindicator out with officer fittings.
Astroniomix Thorn Project 186	Posted - 2012.09.14 07:21:00 - [25] - Quote Paul Oliver wrote: But they can more easily afford things like gol...faction ammo and expensive ships which they have no fear of losing because they can always drop more rl money for plex and buy a new one. But they can't get anything that I cant by simply playing the game. My point is that it's not "pay to win" It's more like "pay extra to be slightly less inconvenienced"
Webvan State War Academy Caldari State 59	Posted - 2012.09.14 07:29:00 - [26] - Quote William Walker wrote: Webvan wrote: WWII Online is still sub WWII online went free to play Hmm? I just reactivated a month three months ago. checks oh... it's a tier trial. Ryzom did the same, you get access up to a point, then you need to sub to go further, not really the free to pay model.
Jacob Holland Weyland-Vulcan Industries Alliance not Found 61	Posted - 2012.09.14 07:44:00 - [27] - Quote Ambo wrote: Actually, eve is free to play. As long as you have/make enough isk to buy a plex a month. PLEX isn't really a F2P system. If I had to give it a name I'd probably call it a Deferred Subscription system because in buying PLEX to keep your account active you're actually getting someone else to pay your sub.
Alayna Le'line 21	Posted - 2012.09.14 08:14:00 - [28] - Quote Lilianna Star wrote: pussnheels wrote: nothing is free to play not even F2P if youplay a F2p game eventually you wiill pay just to pass a certain level cap or you will pay to use a certain powerfull item etc etc eventually you pay more than what you pay for a sub Second F2p works fine on a MMO with 100 s of different serrvers EvE is not, introducing F2P will create a unnbalance between people willi ng to pay for their toys and people who can't afford it or are not willing to pay for it What you describe is bad free to play MMOs. Good free to play games allow playing for free to be palpable while still giving plenty of reasons to pay some money. League of Legends, while not a true MMO, has this aspect down pat and that's one of the reasons why it is so popular today. Unfortunately good free to play games are the exception, not the rule. Most F2P games are glorified shareware where you can only get so far before you have to start paying (because you run out of stuff to do and have to buy new expansions/missions/whatever), can only play a limited set of races/classes (hey, EVE is free, but you can only fly Amarr up to frigates and cruisers, but for only Gé¼5 you can also fly BC and for anothter Gé¼5 you can fly battleships and for $15 you can fly Caldari too!... You get the idea) Doing F2P or even microtransactions "right" is very hard and the vast majority of games fails at it because greed takes the upper hand and the regular content suffers. One example: EverQuest 2 has a carpentry class that crafts furniture to put in people's houses (read, CQ) since Sony figured out they could make money selling furniture through the ingame shop the amount of interesting additions to the profession has been reduced to almost 0. While arguably this is just fluff it's still part of the "normal" gameplay and as such does affect players negatively. So while most people don't much care about the CQ clothing (as it's totally outside "regular" EVE gameplay) an argument could be made that selling ship skins is affecting regular EVE gameplay and as such should be off limits for RMT selling, I'm sure a long argument could be formulated either way (and I'm sure there will be once we get to that stage) Back on topic, EVE has the advantage that there is really not much content beyond what players provide, it's a lot easier to keep paying a sub when you still get the feeling that you are getting something for your money, unlike most other MMOs where you'll have run out of content to do 6 months before the next major update, making it sort of hard to justify paying the sub, quitting otoh means you most likely lose your guild, so starting again gets harder again especially if there's a monetary cost attached to starting again (need to find new guild + need to pay sub + need to buy expansion). Being F2P removes or at least lowers this monetary barrier and makes it easier for people that have quit to get back into the game once an update has been released. Ultimately though I think it's just the game model for those kinds of games that is failing as people eventually will stop coming back for the next update, so the decline of those MMOs that are/went F2P might have slowed down but imho they're still declining, just slower.
Lilianna Star SAZI Enterprises The Aslyum 114	Posted - 2012.09.14 08:23:00 - [29] - Quote Astroniomix wrote: Paul Oliver wrote: But they can more easily afford things like gol...faction ammo and expensive ships which they have no fear of losing because they can always drop more rl money for plex and buy a new one. But they can't get anything that I cant by simply playing the game. My point is that it's not "pay to win" It's more like "pay extra to be slightly less inconvenienced" Pay to save time. And when you do it, you are putting real money on the line. Spoiled kids with rich parents are the exception, not the rule. Other rich people don't have a lot of time on their hands (Typically) so this is a good way to help them catch up.
Astroniomix Thorn Project 188	Posted - 2012.09.14 08:40:00 - [30] - Quote Lilianna Star wrote: Astroniomix wrote: Paul Oliver wrote: But they can more easily afford things like gol...faction ammo and expensive ships which they have no fear of losing because they can always drop more rl money for plex and buy a new one. But they can't get anything that I cant by simply playing the game. My point is that it's not "pay to win" It's more like "pay extra to be slightly less inconvenienced" Pay to save time. And when you do it, you are putting real money on the line. Spoiled kids with rich parents are the exception, not the rule. Other rich people don't have a lot of time on their hands (Typically) so this is a good way to help them catch up. It also gives everyone else pretty loot pinatas to shoot.
Rats Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 230	Posted - 2012.09.14 08:52:00 - [31] - Quote Fremium is a rip off, you will end paying a lot more that you would with a subscription if you want to really enjoy everything, WOT is an example. They know ppl, won't blink at paying -ú1 a shot for extras, then won't realise they spent 40 quid rather than see a 40 quid charge in one hit and go no that's too expensive. Tal -áI Fought the Law, and the Law Won... -áTalon Silverhawk-á
Lilianna Star SAZI Enterprises The Aslyum 114	Posted - 2012.09.14 08:54:00 - [32] - Quote Rats wrote: Fremium is a rip off, you will end paying a lot more that you would with a subscription if you want to really enjoy everything, WOT is an example. They know ppl, won't blink at paying -ú1 a shot for extras, then won't realise they spent 40 quid rather than see a 40 quid charge in one hit and go no that's too expensive. Tal World of Tanks is a good game so I'm not complaining about the money I spent. shrug
Kult Altol Republican Industries Epsilon Fleet 75	Posted - 2012.09.14 09:57:00 - [33] - Quote This game needs a real money market place...just kidding. We see how well that is working for diablow 3 A narrow mind is a focused mind.
Rats Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 230	Posted - 2012.09.14 10:16:00 - [34] - Quote Lilianna Star wrote: Rats wrote: Fremium is a rip off, you will end paying a lot more that you would with a subscription if you want to really enjoy everything, WOT is an example. They know ppl, won't blink at paying -ú1 a shot for extras, then won't realise they spent 40 quid rather than see a 40 quid charge in one hit and go no that's too expensive. Tal World of Tanks is a good game so I'm not complaining about the money I spent. shrug WOT is a good game, doesn't take a away from the fact that Fremium is misleading and more expensive in the long run. Tal -áI Fought the Law, and the Law Won... -áTalon Silverhawk-á
Baneken Fistful of Finns Ewoks 144	Posted - 2012.09.14 11:09:00 - [35] - Quote LOTRO is also ftp and from what I looked it's FTP model seems pretty solid which is that you can buy extras separately or use the subscription model. Only thing is that I regret not putting up the money for lifetime subscription when LOTRO came out.
eddie valvetino Snuff Box 30	Posted - 2012.09.14 11:19:00 - [36] - Quote eve already is "free to play" as it is also "pay to win" ever since game time has been traded for ISK and bought or sold with RL cash. If you can pay with isk to play, when clearly that is a free to play model. and since, if your set up is "better" and therefore more expensive, all the time, guys like me can use RL cash to buy isk (which is what we do when we buy and sell plex). it's also play to win. sometimes, i wonder what game people are playing, it's called eve, but doesn't look or sound much like the game i've been playing for nearly a decade
LilRemmy Synaptic Void The Kadeshi 54	Posted - 2012.09.14 11:24:00 - [37] - Quote Do you have a blog?
eddie valvetino Snuff Box 31	Posted - 2012.09.14 11:38:00 - [38] - Quote LilRemmy wrote: Do you have a blog? hehehe... yeah the eve-online fourms
Rico Minali Sons Of 0din Dark Therapy 1037	Posted - 2012.09.14 11:54:00 - [39] - Quote Nyla Skin wrote: Jerick Ludhowe wrote: CCP managed to kill the true sandbox as well as turn their game into pay to win (not as bad as other games) the moment plex hit the scene. Treating eve like a strict monthly sub game is simply misguided. This I agree with.. Dumb. Eve has always had timecodes to buy and sell for isk. Always. It didnt arrive with plex. Also as stated earlier there are alot of people (me included) who only play due to the ability to buy gametime with isk becasue quite simply, I dont want to pay to play with RL money. Also, no I dont spend much time grinding isk for it, I mostly pvp. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 4614	Posted - 2012.09.14 12:13:00 - [40] - Quote Jerick Ludhowe wrote: CCP managed to kill the true sandbox as well as turn their game into pay to win (not as bad as other games) the moment plex hit the scene. Treating eve like a strict monthly sub game is simply misguided. Bullshit. If being able to sell PLEX for ISK somehow stops EVE from being a "sandbox" (hint: it doesn't) then EVE stopped being a sandbox the very moment the first ISK seller appeared, back in 2003. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 4614	Posted - 2012.09.14 12:19:00 - [41] - Quote eddie valvetino wrote: eve already is "free to play" as it is also "pay to win" ever since game time has been traded for ISK and bought or sold with RL cash. If you can pay with isk to play, when clearly that is a free to play model. and since, if your set up is "better" and therefore more expensive, all the time, guys like me can use RL cash to buy isk (which is what we do when we buy and sell plex). it's also play to win. sometimes, i wonder what game people are playing, it's called eve, but doesn't look or sound much like the game i've been playing for nearly a decade So you started playing before CCP legitimised GTC for ISK. When was that, exactly? Beta? Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
War Kitten Panda McLegion 1163	Posted - 2012.09.14 12:25:00 - [42] - Quote Paul Oliver wrote: But they can more easily afford things like gol...faction ammo and expensive ships which they have no fear of losing because they can always drop more rl money for plex and buy a new one. If they're losing them and replacing them with isk from PLEX they bought, then they're not paying to win, they're paying to play... and losing. "Gold ammo" that you cleverly alluded to is ammo that gives advantage over regular players, and can only be had through spending extra real money. That is "pay to win". Faction ammo is not gold ammo. Faction ships are not gold ships. I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
Tamonash en Welle Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2012.09.14 12:34:00 - [43] - Quote eddie valvetino wrote: If you can pay with isk to play, when clearly that is a free to play model. Excuse me, what other F2P game allows you to use in game currency to pay for your subscription? Do they have system where you must collect 200 bananas to be allowed to play the next month or you will not be able to play at all? And what does that have to do with the 'free to play model' where you can play the game to some extent no matter if you got bananas or not?
eddie valvetino Snuff Box 32	Posted - 2012.09.14 12:34:00 - [44] - Quote Malcanis wrote: eddie valvetino wrote: eve already is "free to play" as it is also "pay to win" ever since game time has been traded for ISK and bought or sold with RL cash. If you can pay with isk to play, when clearly that is a free to play model. and since, if your set up is "better" and therefore more expensive, all the time, guys like me can use RL cash to buy isk (which is what we do when we buy and sell plex). it's also play to win. sometimes, i wonder what game people are playing, it's called eve, but doesn't look or sound much like the game i've been playing for nearly a decade So you started playing before CCP legitimised GTC for ISK. When was that, exactly? Beta? and where did i say that? reread brother... reread. ETC, as they were before PLEX was released, a move made by CCP i believe to benefit from the trade in time codes, were in the game before i joined in 2003, even back then, debates were held on this ever forum, asking for this guy to be banned, that guy to banned, for trading ETC bought with rl cash. Back then CCP made it clear it was not an exploit. There just wasn't the level of market protection, buy and sell orders were made on the fourms, codes sent via eve-mail once cash had been paid. of course, super open to scamming, ccp brought in "secure" trading for ETCs, finally a few years back they released the market seeded PLEX. So on, I have no been playing from beta, but in 9 years, you have ALWAYS been able to "buy" isk with RL cash, though the sell of either ETC or PLEX. Might i suggest, a. you do you research before posting and b. read careful the post ppl make before posting yourself? you will look much less of s **** this way.
eddie valvetino Snuff Box 32	Posted - 2012.09.14 12:37:00 - [45] - Quote Tamonash en Welle wrote: eddie valvetino wrote: If you can pay with isk to play, when clearly that is a free to play model. Excuse me, what other F2P game allows you to use in game currency to pay for your subscription? Do they have system where you must collect 200 bananas to be allowed to play the next month or you will not be able to play at all? And what does that have to do with the 'free to play model' where you can play the game to some extent no matter if you got bananas or not? to be honest, i think my post is clear enough. the fact your IQ does not allow you to comprehend it, is no reason for me to go over it again
Tamonash en Welle Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2012.09.14 12:46:00 - [46] - Quote Ad hominem argumentation shows everybody how brilliant and valid your opion is.
Maeltstome Caldari Deep Space Ventures Intrepid Crossing 72	Posted - 2012.09.14 12:50:00 - [47] - Quote I think the reason it has lasted so long can be down to 2 things: 1. They don't have a publisher siphoning profits then shutting them down when they fail to take every one of WoW's subscribers with 3 months (meanwhile having no game content to justify why this would happen) 2. it's not copying WoW. Lets face it, WoW is the best fantasy MMORPG out there, with rift being close behind in terms of content... Dust will fill a gaping hole in the MMOFPS market - well played CCP... well played.
Yokai Mitsuhide Exiled Mining 3111	Posted - 2012.09.14 13:13:00 - [48] - Quote Jerick Ludhowe wrote: CCP managed to kill the true sandbox as well as turn their game into pay to win (not as bad as other games) the moment plex hit the scene. Treating eve like a strict monthly sub game is simply misguided. PLEX is in no way "pay to win"
Doc Severide Caldari Provisions Caldari State 158	Posted - 2012.09.14 13:44:00 - [49] - Quote Nyla Skin wrote: Because that 10p is enough to keep the drug addicts, hobos and such from making a mess of the inside. The ones that you need to pay for are much cleaner inside. I'm offended. I pay and I'm clearly a drug addict...
Vertisce Soritenshi Tactical Vendor of Services and Goods Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 1734	Posted - 2012.09.14 14:04:00 - [50] - Quote Jerick Ludhowe wrote: CCP managed to kill the true sandbox as well as turn their game into pay to win (not as bad as other games) the moment plex hit the scene. Treating eve like a strict monthly sub game is simply misguided. lol...you clearly don't understand what "pay to win" actually means. If there ever comes a time where there are items in EVE that can ONLY be obtained by spending real money for that item and that item is better than all the others of it's kind...THEN it is pay to win. Buying a PLEX and selling it for in game ISK does not make the game pay to win. You can still buy everything the PLEX seller can without spending real money to do so. In short...you are misguided to think that EVE is a pay to win game because of PLEX. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX!
Vertisce Soritenshi Tactical Vendor of Services and Goods Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 1734	Posted - 2012.09.14 14:06:00 - [51] - Quote Tamonash en Welle wrote: eddie valvetino wrote: If you can pay with isk to play, when clearly that is a free to play model. Excuse me, what other F2P game allows you to use in game currency to pay for your subscription? Tera Online. Just saying... EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX!
RomeStar Astra Research 44	Posted - 2012.09.14 14:21:00 - [52] - Quote pussnheels wrote: nothing is free to play not even F2P if youplay a F2p game eventually you wiill pay just to pass a certain level cap or you will pay to use a certain powerfull item etc etc eventually you pay more than what you pay for a sub Second F2p works fine on a MMO with 100 s of different serrvers EvE is not, introducing F2P will create a unnbalance between people willi ng to pay for their toys and people who can't afford it or are not willing to pay for it I have to disagree with oyu on this one. I play World of Tanks and its F2P I havent paid for anything in that game and it is still the most enjoyable F2P game out there I cant wait untill *** comes out. Signatured removed, CCP Phantom
Astroniomix Thorn Project 205	Posted - 2012.09.14 14:28:00 - [53] - Quote RomeStar wrote: pussnheels wrote: nothing is free to play not even F2P if youplay a F2p game eventually you wiill pay just to pass a certain level cap or you will pay to use a certain powerfull item etc etc eventually you pay more than what you pay for a sub Second F2p works fine on a MMO with 100 s of different serrvers EvE is not, introducing F2P will create a unnbalance between people willi ng to pay for their toys and people who can't afford it or are not willing to pay for it I have to disagree with oyu on this one. I play World of Tanks and its F2P I havent paid for anything in that game and it is still the most enjoyable F2P game out there I cant wait untill *** comes out. Did the forum really just censor "8.0"?
RomeStar Astra Research 44	Posted - 2012.09.14 14:39:00 - [54] - Quote Astroniomix wrote: RomeStar wrote: pussnheels wrote: nothing is free to play not even F2P if youplay a F2p game eventually you wiill pay just to pass a certain level cap or you will pay to use a certain powerfull item etc etc eventually you pay more than what you pay for a sub Second F2p works fine on a MMO with 100 s of different serrvers EvE is not, introducing F2P will create a unnbalance between people willi ng to pay for their toys and people who can't afford it or are not willing to pay for it I have to disagree with oyu on this one. I play World of Tanks and its F2P I havent paid for anything in that game and it is still the most enjoyable F2P game out there I cant wait untill *** comes out. Did the forum really just censor "8.0"? Holy cow crap batman the censored World Of Planes aka W O P Signatured removed, CCP Phantom
Casirio DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale. 12	Posted - 2012.09.14 14:46:00 - [55] - Quote F2P sucks. I hope EVE never stoops to that level. I pay for Eve because they actually have customer support and a Dev team constantly trying to improve the game. Good luck getting that with F2P.
Tamonash en Welle Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2012.09.14 14:53:00 - [56] - Quote Vertisce Soritenshi wrote: Tamonash en Welle wrote: eddie valvetino wrote: ... Excuse me, what other F2P game allows you to use in game currency to pay for your subscription? Tera Online. Just saying... Perhaps, have not tried Tera. I cannot find any information about the game claiming to be F2P on their web site here either. In fact, it initially appears that I can only try it out for free for 7 days. So, as of yet we still do not have an example of a F2P game that allow players to use in game currency to pay their subscription. Even though eddie claimed that "clearly that is a free to play model", so one would guess it should be fairly common. Though, I have tried out a F2P that indeed does allow you to pay for your subscription with in game currency (Doubloon oceans in Puzzle Pirates), but when it comes to the question whether or not you are forced to gather in game currency to pay for your subscription each month or you will not be able to play the game at all, it is a 'no' for Puzzle Pirates and 'yes' for EVE. Essentially, you cannot play EVE for "free" (at all) if you do not either have a subscription or gather enough in game currency to pay for it each month. This is not something I have seen in any of the F2P games I have tried out, and how eddie comes to the conclusion that exactly that mechanic is a clear trademark of the F2P model is what puzzled me. Apparently he does have arguments for his case, though. Shame.
Skippermonkey Tactical Knightmare 1391	Posted - 2012.09.14 15:02:00 - [57] - Quote Jerick Ludhowe wrote: I know huge swathes of people that purchase plex to replace lost ships instead of farming or mining like players use to in the past... The options to invest real life cash to purchase a plex which is then used to obtain large amounts of in game currency is exactly pay to win, regardless of which way you want to spin it. Its not pay to win, its pay-to-not-grind theres a big difference TK is recruiting
Korsiri Mousetrap Building Inc. 70	Posted - 2012.09.14 16:31:00 - [58] - Quote It isn't and I doubt it would be the last, even if it were. A lot of the "F2P" schemes simply change how the money gets to the company - you still pay for what you want, or deal with a severely limited gameplay. Either way, the company gets the cash.
Soundwave Plays Diablo Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 126	Posted - 2012.09.14 18:21:00 - [59] - Quote All the stereotyping in this thread really shows the true colors, and subsequently the intelligence level of the community.
Cpt Gobla No Bullshit Jokers Wild. 58	Posted - 2012.09.14 18:30:00 - [60] - Quote As long as it's possible to blow up officer-fit vindicators with a drake gang or even a large swarm of rifters I wouldn't ever call this game pay-to-win. A single player will always lose, no matter how expensive his ship, to a small gang of people with only 10% of the ISK invested. A 1 billion Command Ship will lose to 100 million worth of Frigates. A 10 billion faction BS will lose to 1 billion worth of BCs. A 100 billion Titan will lose to 10 billion worth of dreads. Pay as much as you want. Pimp that Vindi with dozens of PLEX. I'll just laugh when it eventually gets blown up by a Rifter gang.
pussnheels The Fiction Factory 593	Posted - 2012.09.14 18:43:00 - [61] - Quote Lilianna Star wrote: pussnheels wrote: nothing is free to play not even F2P if youplay a F2p game eventually you wiill pay just to pass a certain level cap or you will pay to use a certain powerfull item etc etc eventually you pay more than what you pay for a sub Second F2p works fine on a MMO with 100 s of different serrvers EvE is not, introducing F2P will create a unnbalance between people willi ng to pay for their toys and people who can't afford it or are not willing to pay for it What you describe is bad free to play MMOs. Good free to play games allow playing for free to be palpable while still giving plenty of reasons to pay some money. League of Legends, while not a true MMO, has this aspect down pat and that's one of the reasons why it is so popular today. i am sorry to tell you this but F2P doesn't work in a sandbox I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Lilianna Star SAZI Enterprises The Aslyum 120	Posted - 2012.09.14 19:55:00 - [62] - Quote pussnheels wrote: Lilianna Star wrote: pussnheels wrote: nothing is free to play not even F2P if youplay a F2p game eventually you wiill pay just to pass a certain level cap or you will pay to use a certain powerfull item etc etc eventually you pay more than what you pay for a sub Second F2p works fine on a MMO with 100 s of different serrvers EvE is not, introducing F2P will create a unnbalance between people willi ng to pay for their toys and people who can't afford it or are not willing to pay for it What you describe is bad free to play MMOs. Good free to play games allow playing for free to be palpable while still giving plenty of reasons to pay some money. League of Legends, while not a true MMO, has this aspect down pat and that's one of the reasons why it is so popular today. i am sorry to tell you this but F2P doesn't work in a sandbox I already said in another post that I don't think that F2P would work for EVE. Buy to play (Where you buy a copy of the game but there's no subscription) is a maybe but free to play is not the right tool for the job here.
Shizuken Venerated Stars 92	Posted - 2012.09.14 19:56:00 - [63] - Quote Jerick Ludhowe wrote: CCP managed to kill the true sandbox as well as turn their game into pay to win (not as bad as other games) the moment plex hit the scene. Treating eve like a strict monthly sub game is simply misguided. PLEX was the optimal solution to RMT. Like it or not, based on human desires RMT is an indispensible fact of MMOs. But remember too that PLEX doesn't add any money to the economy. It only moves it from on player to another. People claim all the time that PLEX ruined the game but I have yet to hear an explanation addressing the merits of that claim. A sandbox is still a sandbox, even if some kids have more toys.
Lilianna Star SAZI Enterprises The Aslyum 120	Posted - 2012.09.14 19:58:00 - [64] - Quote Shizuken wrote: Jerick Ludhowe wrote: CCP managed to kill the true sandbox as well as turn their game into pay to win (not as bad as other games) the moment plex hit the scene. Treating eve like a strict monthly sub game is simply misguided. PLEX was the optimal solution to RMT. Like it or not, based on human desires RMT is an indispensible fact of MMOs. But remember too that PLEX doesn't add any money to the economy. It only moves it from on player to another. People claim all the time that PLEX ruined the game but I have yet to hear an explanation addressing the merits of that claim. A sandbox is still a sandbox, even if some kids have more toys. Yeah, I think PLEx is quite brilliant and it doesn't really ruin anything. Just adds another aspect to the economy.
Cyprus Black Perkone Caldari State 350	Posted - 2012.09.14 22:32:00 - [65] - Quote Last of the sub based games? I don't think so. New(er) MMOs that have the winning formula will always go with the subscription model. In my opinion, any game that starts with subscriptions and shifts to F2P later on in its life is merely clinging to life. It means customers are saying "It's a decent game, but not worth X per month so I'll wait until it goes F2P". If EvE were ever to go to F2P, there could be a decent price model to do it but I wouldn't be happy. It opens the floodgates for botters and spammers as it has done for so many MMOs that went F2P. Hijinks of a highsec pirate http://cyprusblack.blogspot.com/
Tyraeil Starblade Ronin Wing 26	Posted - 2012.09.14 22:47:00 - [66] - Quote Dust 514 is CCP's experiment for F2P, we'll see how it plays out.

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