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MT will make for a stronger Eve?

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Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2011.06.25 10:39:00 - [1] Lets face it, Eve has become dull for many players. The majority of ISK in Eve is controlled by less than 50 real life people who may have 200+ ac****s between. They control the alliances, they control the Tech, the T2 BPO's, the RMT and they control Eve. These are the meta players who influence eve. The control the price you pay for your raw materials, they control the corps you can join, the space you can fly in, they manage the wars and soverign space and they are the very people that MT will undermine. They like or not own Eve and they fear MT. A lot of people who are upset will quit and they are free to do so for CCP dont really care. They know Eve has become dull and the only way to open Eve up is Dust and MT. I suspect CCP would like to see some of these old timers quit for they are part of the problem, they have simply become too big and too powerful. MT will open up the game to new players who have some real cash. I earn 3-4 bil a month on Eve sometime more. I could spend ú150 and convert to Plex and make the same ISK. In reality that only a days pay for me in the real world. There are many out there that will migrate to Eve if they could use their own wealth to give them a helping hand. MT is only an extension of the plex system. Noob. Spends ú500 on plex. Converts to ISK. Buys Character. Or Noob. Spends ú500 on plex. Converts to Aurum. Buys Bling. Sells Bling for ISK. Buys Character. Or Noob. Spends ú500 on plex. Converts to Aurum. Buys New +9 Implant. Trains Faster. Sells Character. Or Noob. Spends ú500 on plex. Converts to Aurum. Buys New +9 Implant. Sells +9 Implant for ISK. Buys Character. What is the f'ing difference? Eve needs to evolve or it will just grind to a halt. Eve can't beat RMT so it may as well join the club and make extra cash. So all of you who think you have some god given right to tell CCP how to market their game and make cash to fund the game can go to hell. Most of you are to blame for RMT with your alliances supporting Bots and RMT in the 1st place. It was the big alliances that cheated in the T20 T2 BPO's and cheated the POS bug. Eve will be a better fresher place without you. A new generation of players will join eve that will give it a lift it deserves. So what if they can afford more, real life is just like that, its what they call a sandbox, anything can happen. I dont want you stuff I have plenty of my own. CCP, bring on the bling, T3 Ammo, +9 Implants, and I could do with more cargo space, range, cloak and Speed on my JF please. I will pay cash for it.
Rei Nakasone	Posted - 2011.06.25 10:43:00 - [2] Put simply... no, just no.
Prince Kobol	Posted - 2011.06.25 10:45:00 - [3] He is right... lets remove all mining, manfucturing, PI, Blueprints etc etc etc and just buy ships and mods from the store.. Hello New Eve Facebook Game :)
Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2011.06.25 10:47:00 - [4] Originally by: Prince Kobol He is right... lets remove all mining, manfucturing, PI, Blueprints etc etc etc and just buy ships and mods from the store.. Hello New Eve Facebook Game :) Isn't that what the alliances do at the moment?
Kara Audanie	Posted - 2011.06.25 10:47:00 - [5] Didn't you realize that when those things come out in EVE, it would crash the market and constantly ****ing it? Please read this post: http://eve.beyondreality.se/NeXCQResponse.html :\|
Prince Kobol	Posted - 2011.06.25 10:48:00 - [6] Originally by: Dibble Dabble Originally by: Prince Kobol He is right... lets remove all mining, manfucturing, PI, Blueprints etc etc etc and just buy ships and mods from the store.. Hello New Eve Facebook Game :) Isn't that what the alliances do at the moment? Erm no because the things they buy using plex HAVE BEEN CREATED IN GAME BY PLAYERS.
Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2011.06.25 10:49:00 - [7] Originally by: Kara Audanie Didn't you realize that when those things come out in EVE, it would crash the market and constantly ****ing it? Please read this post: http://eve.beyondreality.se/NeXCQResponse.html And who controls the Market? The alliances and their RMT and Bots. Yes it will hurt them, they fear MT for this very reason.
Myfanwy Heimdal Caldari Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc	Posted - 2011.06.25 10:51:00 - [8] Dear OP Okay, you've made your points. Now, let me make mine -- what would these changes to the game's economy? The game hangs on people mining, manufacturing, hauling stuff to the battlegrounds as much as it relies on the PvP combatants. For every one man behind a gun there's perhaps a dozen working in the background supplying him with the materials. This is what makes EVE. The PvP destroy stuff; the miners produce the raw materials which go through the chain to the combatants. This is how EVE works, this is why EVE is good. It is not only about PvP via gunfire; there's economic PVP which is just as brutal but more subtle which no other game has. Have you considered that this would simply change the game totally resulting in EVE being another pointless shoot 'em up game? And would you want to go there? I would rather go back to play by mail fortnightly pen and paper games playing stuff like the long lamented SuperNova II.
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.25 10:53:00 - [9] What happens within the EVE universe is our - the players' - own business. This is what you have to face with. If we now have to face players, who invest ú150 per month into EVE, then it is not a game any more, but has become a serious business. EVE is still just a game. Keep the real money out of it, and keep vanity out of it as well. Games still shall have a pedagogic value. If their maker turns an MMO into a farm for farming off players for their real cash then we can all just go to Las Vegas and play there. Why pay ATI, Nvidia and CCP when in Vegas you can get real strippers? --
Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2011.06.25 11:02:00 - [10] Originally by: Myfanwy Heimdal Dear OP Okay, you've made your points. Now, let me make mine -- what would these changes to the game's economy? The game hangs on people mining, manufacturing, hauling stuff to the battlegrounds as much as it relies on the PvP combatants. For every one man behind a gun there's perhaps a dozen working in the background supplying him with the materials. This is what makes EVE. The PvP destroy stuff; the miners produce the raw materials which go through the chain to the combatants. This is how EVE works, this is why EVE is good. It is not only about PvP via gunfire; there's economic PVP which is just as brutal but more subtle which no other game has. Have you considered that this would simply change the game totally resulting in EVE being another pointless shoot 'em up game? And would you want to go there? I would rather go back to play by mail fortnightly pen and paper games playing stuff like the long lamented SuperNova II. I understand where your coming from and any MT has to be controlled. The CCP leaked blog was quite clear in their respect for MT in that there has to be a balance, a sweet spot. Offering a titan or some super weapon that kills everything is not going to happen. Offering items that make your ship indestructable is not going to happen. However by offering small things to give you a slight edge will happen. For many players owning that officer mod or implant costing billions of ISK is only achievable by purchasing it from the market which then goes to fund the alliances and in some cases no doubt used for RMT. A similar mod or implant available from the "shop" would not fund the alliances but would fund CCP. I dont think they are going to replace the market but add to it. In turn this mod may drop in PVP thus it can be sold on the market. I dont think CCP are going to offer items for sale that are available via the market. This can be done by selling plex to get the ISK to buy it. CCP are simply offering another option but in a controlled fashion over time. This is what the alliances and RMT folk fear, that the market will change and items will be devalued and they will get less $$$$ for their ISK, which is a good thing.

Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2011.06.25 11:08:00 - [11] Originally by: Whitehound What happens within the EVE universe is our - the players' - own business. This is what you have to face with. If we now have to face players, who invest ú150 per month into EVE, then it is not a game any more, but has become a serious business. Your wrong, this is CCP's game not ours. Its grown since so much in 6 years and needs to grow more. People have been funding their game via plex for years. The hard core honest meta gamers who just PVP are happy to blow a days wage or an hours wage to fund their fun. CCP is a commercial operation, its designed to make money and it has to evolve.
Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2011.06.25 11:21:00 - [12] Originally by: Prince Kobol Originally by: Dibble Dabble Originally by: Prince Kobol He is right... lets remove all mining, manfucturing, PI, Blueprints etc etc etc and just buy ships and mods from the store.. Hello New Eve Facebook Game :) Isn't that what the alliances do at the moment? Erm no because the things they buy using plex HAVE BEEN CREATED IN GAME BY PLAYERS. Lets say you want a blinged Ishtar and the ISK cost is 10bil ISK. It has a bonus of 5% to drone damage. You buy the BPC with your Aurum. You build it with stuff from the market and build it. This has funded both CCP and the Market. You have a slight edge in combat but you cant win eve with it. You could sell it for the ISK and if it dies in PVP or PVE it may drop a nice bit of salvage bling. There are people in eve who will buy this and never fly it. They collect the rare. CCP may only issue this Blinged Ishtar for a week or make it limited to 1000 items thus adding to its appeal to collectors in much the same way folks collect other stuff.
Myfanwy Heimdal Caldari Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc	Posted - 2011.06.25 11:49:00 - [13] Okay, so the market value of the items drop. Then the demand to makes them drop. The demand for the materials drop. Planetary Interaction (PI) already runs on a shoe string and the margins are terrible. I think that most of the players who do PI do it for the experience. Deflating the market is going to kill off PI. It's going to kill off Industrialists. Just because there's a big alliance now it doesn't mean that it's indestructible. Not all PvP has to be done by combat, EVE offers us economic warfare in which large Corps can be brought down. What's the point of having a war against an Alliance if all the good stuff can get bought and replaced at the corner shop? If the players' characters are replaceable and now every item then the game becomes pointless. It's quite aburd to imagine that a player is stuck in a station with no hope of resupply from outside in a seige like situation for him to pop downstairs to find the man on the street corner who can sell him a Titan or two, all the shields and mods that he needs all from his mate, Bert, across the road in the pub. It just beggers belief. If I wanted a game where I could magic stuff out of thin air then I would be playing Dungeons and Dragons again. In EVE, at present, the stuff has to get there to where it's being sold. That's the like of Red Frog and Black Frog doing the hauling. Or it could be privateers doing blockade running but the stuff has to get there. it's these aspects of the game which makes EVE and losing these details will destroy what EVE has. I am sure that there's a hundred game out there which supplies infinite ammunition from nowhere, I know I have played a few, and they feel utterly wrong. Why EVE should go down this route I have no idea.
Atima Minmatar House of Marbles	Posted - 2011.06.25 11:50:00 - [14] /puts on tinfoil hat
Bossanova Widya	Posted - 2011.06.25 11:51:00 - [15] u make me so sick... Replace the word n00b, with brat.. should put things in perspective.. unless u trollin
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.25 11:56:00 - [16] Edited by: Whitehound on 25/06/2011 11:56:49 Originally by: Dibble Dabble Your wrong, this is CCP's game not ours. It is our game. All CCP employees are only allowed to play it without taking influence in alliance warfare. We are also paying for it and the moment it is not our game any more will we stop playing it. CCP is the maker of it, but we are their customers. We are the ones paying them to do it. Whatever it is you are trying to say does not matter to me and will not matter to them either. At best are you just an obedient and paying kid who they can feed with a few comments to make it believe that this is what it wants, when in fact you just do not know what you want. --
Nye Jaran	Posted - 2011.06.25 11:56:00 - [17] Originally by: Dibble Dabble I understand where your coming from and any MT has to be controlled. The CCP leaked blog was quite clear in their respect for MT in that there has to be a balance, a sweet spot. Offering a titan or some super weapon that kills everything is not going to happen. Offering items that make your ship indestructable is not going to happen. However by offering small things to give you a slight edge will happen. I want to compete with others based on their skill, experience, luck, and numbers. Not against their wallet.
Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2011.06.25 13:12:00 - [18] Originally by: Bossanova Widya u make me so sick... Replace the word n00b, with brat.. should put things in perspective.. unless u trollin It doesnt take a lot to make you sick. Maybe Eve isnt the game for you and I fear for you in real life. Eve isnt about skill its about ISK. There is no level playing field. The more isk you have the better your implants, ships, mods and skills. More ISK you have then you can buy a better skilled character. Unless you been living under a rock for the last several years this is what Eve has become. Skills my arse.
Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2011.06.25 13:21:00 - [19] Edited by: Dibble Dabble on 25/06/2011 13:22:12 Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 25/06/2011 11:56:49 Originally by: Dibble Dabble Your wrong, this is CCP's game not ours. It is our game. All CCP employees are only allowed to play it without taking influence in alliance warfare. We are also paying for it and the moment it is not our game any more will we stop playing it. CCP is the maker of it, but we are their customers. We are the ones paying them to do it. Whatever it is you are trying to say does not matter to me and will not matter to them either. At best are you just an obedient and paying kid who they can feed with a few comments to make it believe that this is what it wants, when in fact you just do not know what you want. I suggest you quit and go find another game. Your simply not mature enought to consider and accept change is good. You worry about your comfort zone and the status quo and eve will be a bettter place without you. I dont want your stuff either.
Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2011.06.25 13:23:00 - [20] Originally by: Atima /puts on tinfoil hat I wonder if you could buy a nice one from the shop

Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2011.06.25 13:28:00 - [21] Originally by: Myfanwy Heimdal Okay, so the market value of the items drop. Then the demand to makes them drop. The demand for the materials drop. Planetary Interaction (PI) already runs on a shoe string and the margins are terrible. I think that most of the players who do PI do it for the experience. Deflating the market is going to kill off PI. It's going to kill off Industrialists. Just because there's a big alliance now it doesn't mean that it's indestructible. Not all PvP has to be done by combat, EVE offers us economic warfare in which large Corps can be brought down. What's the point of having a war against an Alliance if all the good stuff can get bought and replaced at the corner shop? If the players' characters are replaceable and now every item then the game becomes pointless. It's quite aburd to imagine that a player is stuck in a station with no hope of resupply from outside in a seige like situation for him to pop downstairs to find the man on the street corner who can sell him a Titan or two, all the shields and mods that he needs all from his mate, Bert, across the road in the pub. It just beggers belief. If I wanted a game where I could magic stuff out of thin air then I would be playing Dungeons and Dragons again. In EVE, at present, the stuff has to get there to where it's being sold. That's the like of Red Frog and Black Frog doing the hauling. Or it could be privateers doing blockade running but the stuff has to get there. it's these aspects of the game which makes EVE and losing these details will destroy what EVE has. I am sure that there's a hundred game out there which supplies infinite ammunition from nowhere, I know I have played a few, and they feel utterly wrong. Why EVE should go down this route I have no idea. The market will adjust. If CCP box clever they would supply BPC's for items than can influence game play thus they continue to need the market to supply the raw materials. Thus a +9 implant will require some +5's and some other expensive **** to make. I dont think CCP will supply Titans. I suggest you read the actual CCP Blog that was leaked rather than pick the soundbites and juicy bits. Reading the whole blog will tell you a lot more than simply reading the headlines and panic led crap thats come out. But maybe thats too much to ask. Change is good and Eve needs to change. Dont like it then quit.
Prince Kobol	Posted - 2011.06.25 13:33:00 - [22] Originally by: Dibble Dabble Originally by: Whitehound What happens within the EVE universe is our - the players' - own business. This is what you have to face with. If we now have to face players, who invest ú150 per month into EVE, then it is not a game any more, but has become a serious business. Your wrong, this is CCP's game not ours. Its grown since so much in 6 years and needs to grow more. People have been funding their game via plex for years. The hard core honest meta gamers who just PVP are happy to blow a days wage or an hours wage to fund their fun. CCP is a commercial operation, its designed to make money and it has to evolve. yes it is CCP Games, Yes CCp is a commercial operation and yes they are design to make money. Just one problem. How does a Company make money without customers?
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.25 13:34:00 - [23] Originally by: Dibble Dabble I suggest you quit and go find another game. Your simply not mature enought to consider and accept change is good. You worry about your comfort zone and the status quo and eve will be a bettter place without you. I dont want your stuff either. That is your idea of making money? Suggest the players to quit?? "change is good" is what the Germans said in 1939, too. I suggest you dip stick put on a nice uniform and go marching up and down the street. --
Rihannsu78 Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.25 13:38:00 - [24] I agree change is good and this is a step in the right direction. Eve is evolving and we should stay behind it and help it along.
Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2011.06.25 13:42:00 - [25] Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Dibble Dabble I suggest you quit and go find another game. Your simply not mature enought to consider and accept change is good. You worry about your comfort zone and the status quo and eve will be a bettter place without you. I dont want your stuff either. That is your idea of making money? Suggest the players to quit?? "change is good" is what the Germans said in 1939, too. I suggest you dip stick put on a nice uniform and go marching up and down the street. You really are a sad person. IF your twisted mind can compare MT and my opinon with a **** then I really do hope you quit the game and get some help as I figure you need it. Real word is about change, Eve has to evolve as we did from the apes, with the possible exception of your good self.
Acac Sunflyier Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.25 13:43:00 - [26] With the over quarter million dollars in subscription losses so far, I think not.
Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2011.06.25 13:46:00 - [27] Originally by: Prince Kobol Originally by: Dibble Dabble Originally by: Whitehound What happens within the EVE universe is our - the players' - own business. This is what you have to face with. If we now have to face players, who invest ú150 per month into EVE, then it is not a game any more, but has become a serious business. Your wrong, this is CCP's game not ours. Its grown since so much in 6 years and needs to grow more. People have been funding their game via plex for years. The hard core honest meta gamers who just PVP are happy to blow a days wage or an hours wage to fund their fun. CCP is a commercial operation, its designed to make money and it has to evolve. yes it is CCP Games, Yes CCp is a commercial operation and yes they are design to make money. Just one problem. How does a Company make money without customers? I think it wants new customers as with people like you on board eve will stagnate and die. You really should embrace the future and move with the times. Adapt and move forward. Or quit.
Kinta Huron Minmatar Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.06.25 13:49:00 - [28] Eve has only become dull because there is no character skill re-spec ability.
Adunh Slavy	Posted - 2011.06.25 13:50:00 - [29] Having explained this numerous times, you get a quote from another thread, Originally by: Adunh Slavy Micro-transaction items require virtually no input from the sandbox to create. For example, a ship magically created removes all the potential game play that the production of that ship would have required from the sandbox. This removal of game play, of value, is taken from the noob miner to the 0.0 miner, to the can flipper to the hot dropper and his 23 SuperCap friends out on a Sunday afternoon drive. Each micro-transaction created item takes a tiny bit from everyone, as more and more MT items are created, those tiny bits add up until the sandbox has no meaning. Purely cosmetic vanity items, although they could have an impact on certain aspects of the sandbox, they have a far less value at a mechanical level, and thus, have far less mechanical impact on the sandbox. Although some argue PLEX is a micro-transaction, this is demonstrably false. The ISK for which that PLEX is sold, was collected by someone in the game doing whatever it is they do. Thy put forth an effort and got a reward of ISK. They then trade that ISK for a PLEX. The guy who sold the PLEX now has the ISK, and the other guy has the PLEX. Nothing was added or removed from the sandbox, except the need for one or both of them to break the EULA. CCP profits and the players profit from PLEX. The only ones who profit from MTs are CCP, and they do so not only at the expense of the $Cash spender, but of everyone in the game that now no longer has the opportunity to participate in the creation of the MT created items. MTs are theft. My faith in CCP will return SoonÖ
Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2011.06.25 13:51:00 - [30] Originally by: Acac Sunflyier With the over quarter million dollars in subscription losses so far, I think not. Of course your assuming that these players who quit a) Pay real cash to play. b) Have quit and not lied about quiting. c) Will not rejoin after making their point. d) Your simply guessing figures based on knee jerk reactions, speculation and bull****, unless of course you have access to CCP's subscription data base. Some will quit and never come back, their loss not mine. One way to fix lag.



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