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MT will make for a stronger Eve?

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Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2011.06.25 10:39:00 - [1] Lets face it, Eve has become dull for many players. The majority of ISK in Eve is controlled by less than 50 real life people who may have 200+ ac****s between. They control the alliances, they control the Tech, the T2 BPO's, the RMT and they control Eve. These are the meta players who influence eve. The control the price you pay for your raw materials, they control the corps you can join, the space you can fly in, they manage the wars and soverign space and they are the very people that MT will undermine. They like or not own Eve and they fear MT. A lot of people who are upset will quit and they are free to do so for CCP dont really care. They know Eve has become dull and the only way to open Eve up is Dust and MT. I suspect CCP would like to see some of these old timers quit for they are part of the problem, they have simply become too big and too powerful. MT will open up the game to new players who have some real cash. I earn 3-4 bil a month on Eve sometime more. I could spend ú150 and convert to Plex and make the same ISK. In reality that only a days pay for me in the real world. There are many out there that will migrate to Eve if they could use their own wealth to give them a helping hand. MT is only an extension of the plex system. Noob. Spends ú500 on plex. Converts to ISK. Buys Character. Or Noob. Spends ú500 on plex. Converts to Aurum. Buys Bling. Sells Bling for ISK. Buys Character. Or Noob. Spends ú500 on plex. Converts to Aurum. Buys New +9 Implant. Trains Faster. Sells Character. Or Noob. Spends ú500 on plex. Converts to Aurum. Buys New +9 Implant. Sells +9 Implant for ISK. Buys Character. What is the f'ing difference? Eve needs to evolve or it will just grind to a halt. Eve can't beat RMT so it may as well join the club and make extra cash. So all of you who think you have some god given right to tell CCP how to market their game and make cash to fund the game can go to hell. Most of you are to blame for RMT with your alliances supporting Bots and RMT in the 1st place. It was the big alliances that cheated in the T20 T2 BPO's and cheated the POS bug. Eve will be a better fresher place without you. A new generation of players will join eve that will give it a lift it deserves. So what if they can afford more, real life is just like that, its what they call a sandbox, anything can happen. I dont want you stuff I have plenty of my own. CCP, bring on the bling, T3 Ammo, +9 Implants, and I could do with more cargo space, range, cloak and Speed on my JF please. I will pay cash for it.
Rei Nakasone	Posted - 2011.06.25 10:43:00 - [2] Put simply... no, just no.
Prince Kobol	Posted - 2011.06.25 10:45:00 - [3] He is right... lets remove all mining, manfucturing, PI, Blueprints etc etc etc and just buy ships and mods from the store.. Hello New Eve Facebook Game :)
Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2011.06.25 10:47:00 - [4] Originally by: Prince Kobol He is right... lets remove all mining, manfucturing, PI, Blueprints etc etc etc and just buy ships and mods from the store.. Hello New Eve Facebook Game :) Isn't that what the alliances do at the moment?
Kara Audanie	Posted - 2011.06.25 10:47:00 - [5] Didn't you realize that when those things come out in EVE, it would crash the market and constantly ****ing it? Please read this post: http://eve.beyondreality.se/NeXCQResponse.html :\|
Prince Kobol	Posted - 2011.06.25 10:48:00 - [6] Originally by: Dibble Dabble Originally by: Prince Kobol He is right... lets remove all mining, manfucturing, PI, Blueprints etc etc etc and just buy ships and mods from the store.. Hello New Eve Facebook Game :) Isn't that what the alliances do at the moment? Erm no because the things they buy using plex HAVE BEEN CREATED IN GAME BY PLAYERS.
Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2011.06.25 10:49:00 - [7] Originally by: Kara Audanie Didn't you realize that when those things come out in EVE, it would crash the market and constantly ****ing it? Please read this post: http://eve.beyondreality.se/NeXCQResponse.html And who controls the Market? The alliances and their RMT and Bots. Yes it will hurt them, they fear MT for this very reason.
Myfanwy Heimdal Caldari Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc	Posted - 2011.06.25 10:51:00 - [8] Dear OP Okay, you've made your points. Now, let me make mine -- what would these changes to the game's economy? The game hangs on people mining, manufacturing, hauling stuff to the battlegrounds as much as it relies on the PvP combatants. For every one man behind a gun there's perhaps a dozen working in the background supplying him with the materials. This is what makes EVE. The PvP destroy stuff; the miners produce the raw materials which go through the chain to the combatants. This is how EVE works, this is why EVE is good. It is not only about PvP via gunfire; there's economic PVP which is just as brutal but more subtle which no other game has. Have you considered that this would simply change the game totally resulting in EVE being another pointless shoot 'em up game? And would you want to go there? I would rather go back to play by mail fortnightly pen and paper games playing stuff like the long lamented SuperNova II.
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.25 10:53:00 - [9] What happens within the EVE universe is our - the players' - own business. This is what you have to face with. If we now have to face players, who invest ú150 per month into EVE, then it is not a game any more, but has become a serious business. EVE is still just a game. Keep the real money out of it, and keep vanity out of it as well. Games still shall have a pedagogic value. If their maker turns an MMO into a farm for farming off players for their real cash then we can all just go to Las Vegas and play there. Why pay ATI, Nvidia and CCP when in Vegas you can get real strippers? --
Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2011.06.25 11:02:00 - [10] Originally by: Myfanwy Heimdal Dear OP Okay, you've made your points. Now, let me make mine -- what would these changes to the game's economy? The game hangs on people mining, manufacturing, hauling stuff to the battlegrounds as much as it relies on the PvP combatants. For every one man behind a gun there's perhaps a dozen working in the background supplying him with the materials. This is what makes EVE. The PvP destroy stuff; the miners produce the raw materials which go through the chain to the combatants. This is how EVE works, this is why EVE is good. It is not only about PvP via gunfire; there's economic PVP which is just as brutal but more subtle which no other game has. Have you considered that this would simply change the game totally resulting in EVE being another pointless shoot 'em up game? And would you want to go there? I would rather go back to play by mail fortnightly pen and paper games playing stuff like the long lamented SuperNova II. I understand where your coming from and any MT has to be controlled. The CCP leaked blog was quite clear in their respect for MT in that there has to be a balance, a sweet spot. Offering a titan or some super weapon that kills everything is not going to happen. Offering items that make your ship indestructable is not going to happen. However by offering small things to give you a slight edge will happen. For many players owning that officer mod or implant costing billions of ISK is only achievable by purchasing it from the market which then goes to fund the alliances and in some cases no doubt used for RMT. A similar mod or implant available from the "shop" would not fund the alliances but would fund CCP. I dont think they are going to replace the market but add to it. In turn this mod may drop in PVP thus it can be sold on the market. I dont think CCP are going to offer items for sale that are available via the market. This can be done by selling plex to get the ISK to buy it. CCP are simply offering another option but in a controlled fashion over time. This is what the alliances and RMT folk fear, that the market will change and items will be devalued and they will get less $$$$ for their ISK, which is a good thing.

Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2011.06.25 11:08:00 - [11] Originally by: Whitehound What happens within the EVE universe is our - the players' - own business. This is what you have to face with. If we now have to face players, who invest ú150 per month into EVE, then it is not a game any more, but has become a serious business. Your wrong, this is CCP's game not ours. Its grown since so much in 6 years and needs to grow more. People have been funding their game via plex for years. The hard core honest meta gamers who just PVP are happy to blow a days wage or an hours wage to fund their fun. CCP is a commercial operation, its designed to make money and it has to evolve.
Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2011.06.25 11:21:00 - [12] Originally by: Prince Kobol Originally by: Dibble Dabble Originally by: Prince Kobol He is right... lets remove all mining, manfucturing, PI, Blueprints etc etc etc and just buy ships and mods from the store.. Hello New Eve Facebook Game :) Isn't that what the alliances do at the moment? Erm no because the things they buy using plex HAVE BEEN CREATED IN GAME BY PLAYERS. Lets say you want a blinged Ishtar and the ISK cost is 10bil ISK. It has a bonus of 5% to drone damage. You buy the BPC with your Aurum. You build it with stuff from the market and build it. This has funded both CCP and the Market. You have a slight edge in combat but you cant win eve with it. You could sell it for the ISK and if it dies in PVP or PVE it may drop a nice bit of salvage bling. There are people in eve who will buy this and never fly it. They collect the rare. CCP may only issue this Blinged Ishtar for a week or make it limited to 1000 items thus adding to its appeal to collectors in much the same way folks collect other stuff.
Myfanwy Heimdal Caldari Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc	Posted - 2011.06.25 11:49:00 - [13] Okay, so the market value of the items drop. Then the demand to makes them drop. The demand for the materials drop. Planetary Interaction (PI) already runs on a shoe string and the margins are terrible. I think that most of the players who do PI do it for the experience. Deflating the market is going to kill off PI. It's going to kill off Industrialists. Just because there's a big alliance now it doesn't mean that it's indestructible. Not all PvP has to be done by combat, EVE offers us economic warfare in which large Corps can be brought down. What's the point of having a war against an Alliance if all the good stuff can get bought and replaced at the corner shop? If the players' characters are replaceable and now every item then the game becomes pointless. It's quite aburd to imagine that a player is stuck in a station with no hope of resupply from outside in a seige like situation for him to pop downstairs to find the man on the street corner who can sell him a Titan or two, all the shields and mods that he needs all from his mate, Bert, across the road in the pub. It just beggers belief. If I wanted a game where I could magic stuff out of thin air then I would be playing Dungeons and Dragons again. In EVE, at present, the stuff has to get there to where it's being sold. That's the like of Red Frog and Black Frog doing the hauling. Or it could be privateers doing blockade running but the stuff has to get there. it's these aspects of the game which makes EVE and losing these details will destroy what EVE has. I am sure that there's a hundred game out there which supplies infinite ammunition from nowhere, I know I have played a few, and they feel utterly wrong. Why EVE should go down this route I have no idea.
Atima Minmatar House of Marbles	Posted - 2011.06.25 11:50:00 - [14] /puts on tinfoil hat
Bossanova Widya	Posted - 2011.06.25 11:51:00 - [15] u make me so sick... Replace the word n00b, with brat.. should put things in perspective.. unless u trollin
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.25 11:56:00 - [16] Edited by: Whitehound on 25/06/2011 11:56:49 Originally by: Dibble Dabble Your wrong, this is CCP's game not ours. It is our game. All CCP employees are only allowed to play it without taking influence in alliance warfare. We are also paying for it and the moment it is not our game any more will we stop playing it. CCP is the maker of it, but we are their customers. We are the ones paying them to do it. Whatever it is you are trying to say does not matter to me and will not matter to them either. At best are you just an obedient and paying kid who they can feed with a few comments to make it believe that this is what it wants, when in fact you just do not know what you want. --
Nye Jaran	Posted - 2011.06.25 11:56:00 - [17] Originally by: Dibble Dabble I understand where your coming from and any MT has to be controlled. The CCP leaked blog was quite clear in their respect for MT in that there has to be a balance, a sweet spot. Offering a titan or some super weapon that kills everything is not going to happen. Offering items that make your ship indestructable is not going to happen. However by offering small things to give you a slight edge will happen. I want to compete with others based on their skill, experience, luck, and numbers. Not against their wallet.
Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2011.06.25 13:12:00 - [18] Originally by: Bossanova Widya u make me so sick... Replace the word n00b, with brat.. should put things in perspective.. unless u trollin It doesnt take a lot to make you sick. Maybe Eve isnt the game for you and I fear for you in real life. Eve isnt about skill its about ISK. There is no level playing field. The more isk you have the better your implants, ships, mods and skills. More ISK you have then you can buy a better skilled character. Unless you been living under a rock for the last several years this is what Eve has become. Skills my arse.
Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2011.06.25 13:21:00 - [19] Edited by: Dibble Dabble on 25/06/2011 13:22:12 Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 25/06/2011 11:56:49 Originally by: Dibble Dabble Your wrong, this is CCP's game not ours. It is our game. All CCP employees are only allowed to play it without taking influence in alliance warfare. We are also paying for it and the moment it is not our game any more will we stop playing it. CCP is the maker of it, but we are their customers. We are the ones paying them to do it. Whatever it is you are trying to say does not matter to me and will not matter to them either. At best are you just an obedient and paying kid who they can feed with a few comments to make it believe that this is what it wants, when in fact you just do not know what you want. I suggest you quit and go find another game. Your simply not mature enought to consider and accept change is good. You worry about your comfort zone and the status quo and eve will be a bettter place without you. I dont want your stuff either.
Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2011.06.25 13:23:00 - [20] Originally by: Atima /puts on tinfoil hat I wonder if you could buy a nice one from the shop

Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2011.06.25 13:28:00 - [21] Originally by: Myfanwy Heimdal Okay, so the market value of the items drop. Then the demand to makes them drop. The demand for the materials drop. Planetary Interaction (PI) already runs on a shoe string and the margins are terrible. I think that most of the players who do PI do it for the experience. Deflating the market is going to kill off PI. It's going to kill off Industrialists. Just because there's a big alliance now it doesn't mean that it's indestructible. Not all PvP has to be done by combat, EVE offers us economic warfare in which large Corps can be brought down. What's the point of having a war against an Alliance if all the good stuff can get bought and replaced at the corner shop? If the players' characters are replaceable and now every item then the game becomes pointless. It's quite aburd to imagine that a player is stuck in a station with no hope of resupply from outside in a seige like situation for him to pop downstairs to find the man on the street corner who can sell him a Titan or two, all the shields and mods that he needs all from his mate, Bert, across the road in the pub. It just beggers belief. If I wanted a game where I could magic stuff out of thin air then I would be playing Dungeons and Dragons again. In EVE, at present, the stuff has to get there to where it's being sold. That's the like of Red Frog and Black Frog doing the hauling. Or it could be privateers doing blockade running but the stuff has to get there. it's these aspects of the game which makes EVE and losing these details will destroy what EVE has. I am sure that there's a hundred game out there which supplies infinite ammunition from nowhere, I know I have played a few, and they feel utterly wrong. Why EVE should go down this route I have no idea. The market will adjust. If CCP box clever they would supply BPC's for items than can influence game play thus they continue to need the market to supply the raw materials. Thus a +9 implant will require some +5's and some other expensive **** to make. I dont think CCP will supply Titans. I suggest you read the actual CCP Blog that was leaked rather than pick the soundbites and juicy bits. Reading the whole blog will tell you a lot more than simply reading the headlines and panic led crap thats come out. But maybe thats too much to ask. Change is good and Eve needs to change. Dont like it then quit.
Prince Kobol	Posted - 2011.06.25 13:33:00 - [22] Originally by: Dibble Dabble Originally by: Whitehound What happens within the EVE universe is our - the players' - own business. This is what you have to face with. If we now have to face players, who invest ú150 per month into EVE, then it is not a game any more, but has become a serious business. Your wrong, this is CCP's game not ours. Its grown since so much in 6 years and needs to grow more. People have been funding their game via plex for years. The hard core honest meta gamers who just PVP are happy to blow a days wage or an hours wage to fund their fun. CCP is a commercial operation, its designed to make money and it has to evolve. yes it is CCP Games, Yes CCp is a commercial operation and yes they are design to make money. Just one problem. How does a Company make money without customers?
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.25 13:34:00 - [23] Originally by: Dibble Dabble I suggest you quit and go find another game. Your simply not mature enought to consider and accept change is good. You worry about your comfort zone and the status quo and eve will be a bettter place without you. I dont want your stuff either. That is your idea of making money? Suggest the players to quit?? "change is good" is what the Germans said in 1939, too. I suggest you dip stick put on a nice uniform and go marching up and down the street. --
Rihannsu78 Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.25 13:38:00 - [24] I agree change is good and this is a step in the right direction. Eve is evolving and we should stay behind it and help it along.
Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2011.06.25 13:42:00 - [25] Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Dibble Dabble I suggest you quit and go find another game. Your simply not mature enought to consider and accept change is good. You worry about your comfort zone and the status quo and eve will be a bettter place without you. I dont want your stuff either. That is your idea of making money? Suggest the players to quit?? "change is good" is what the Germans said in 1939, too. I suggest you dip stick put on a nice uniform and go marching up and down the street. You really are a sad person. IF your twisted mind can compare MT and my opinon with a **** then I really do hope you quit the game and get some help as I figure you need it. Real word is about change, Eve has to evolve as we did from the apes, with the possible exception of your good self.
Acac Sunflyier Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.25 13:43:00 - [26] With the over quarter million dollars in subscription losses so far, I think not.
Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2011.06.25 13:46:00 - [27] Originally by: Prince Kobol Originally by: Dibble Dabble Originally by: Whitehound What happens within the EVE universe is our - the players' - own business. This is what you have to face with. If we now have to face players, who invest ú150 per month into EVE, then it is not a game any more, but has become a serious business. Your wrong, this is CCP's game not ours. Its grown since so much in 6 years and needs to grow more. People have been funding their game via plex for years. The hard core honest meta gamers who just PVP are happy to blow a days wage or an hours wage to fund their fun. CCP is a commercial operation, its designed to make money and it has to evolve. yes it is CCP Games, Yes CCp is a commercial operation and yes they are design to make money. Just one problem. How does a Company make money without customers? I think it wants new customers as with people like you on board eve will stagnate and die. You really should embrace the future and move with the times. Adapt and move forward. Or quit.
Kinta Huron Minmatar Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.06.25 13:49:00 - [28] Eve has only become dull because there is no character skill re-spec ability.
Adunh Slavy	Posted - 2011.06.25 13:50:00 - [29] Having explained this numerous times, you get a quote from another thread, Originally by: Adunh Slavy Micro-transaction items require virtually no input from the sandbox to create. For example, a ship magically created removes all the potential game play that the production of that ship would have required from the sandbox. This removal of game play, of value, is taken from the noob miner to the 0.0 miner, to the can flipper to the hot dropper and his 23 SuperCap friends out on a Sunday afternoon drive. Each micro-transaction created item takes a tiny bit from everyone, as more and more MT items are created, those tiny bits add up until the sandbox has no meaning. Purely cosmetic vanity items, although they could have an impact on certain aspects of the sandbox, they have a far less value at a mechanical level, and thus, have far less mechanical impact on the sandbox. Although some argue PLEX is a micro-transaction, this is demonstrably false. The ISK for which that PLEX is sold, was collected by someone in the game doing whatever it is they do. Thy put forth an effort and got a reward of ISK. They then trade that ISK for a PLEX. The guy who sold the PLEX now has the ISK, and the other guy has the PLEX. Nothing was added or removed from the sandbox, except the need for one or both of them to break the EULA. CCP profits and the players profit from PLEX. The only ones who profit from MTs are CCP, and they do so not only at the expense of the $Cash spender, but of everyone in the game that now no longer has the opportunity to participate in the creation of the MT created items. MTs are theft. My faith in CCP will return SoonÖ
Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2011.06.25 13:51:00 - [30] Originally by: Acac Sunflyier With the over quarter million dollars in subscription losses so far, I think not. Of course your assuming that these players who quit a) Pay real cash to play. b) Have quit and not lied about quiting. c) Will not rejoin after making their point. d) Your simply guessing figures based on knee jerk reactions, speculation and bull****, unless of course you have access to CCP's subscription data base. Some will quit and never come back, their loss not mine. One way to fix lag.

Vawd Caldari Proficient Armament Solutions Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.25 13:54:00 - [31] Originally by: Dibble Dabble Originally by: Myfanwy Heimdal Change is good and Eve needs to change. Dont like it then quit. I hate progressive scum. Change is NOT good, apparently you don't pay attention to real life, which is why you want to spend your paycheck on a video game.
Shenra Twrin	Posted - 2011.06.25 13:56:00 - [32] Edited by: Shenra Twrin on 25/06/2011 13:58:40 Originally by: Acac Sunflyier With the over quarter million dollars in subscription losses so far, I think not. yeah so ? they may lose 390k $ trough subscriptions but geht like 500k for MT¦s .... Originally by: Vawd blablabla, which is why you want to spend your paycheck on a video game. why somepeople spend thier paycheck for golfing or trips in other countrys ? right they have fun soooo dont see anyproblem here u dont need to buy in Aurum shop if u dont want ....all people are like omg NOW U NEED TO PAY IN THIS SHOP
Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2011.06.25 13:57:00 - [33] Originally by: Adunh Slavy Having explained this numerous times, you get a quote from another thread, Originally by: Adunh Slavy Micro-transaction items require virtually no input from the sandbox to create. For example, a ship magically created removes all the potential game play that the production of that ship would have required from the sandbox. This removal of game play, of value, is taken from the noob miner to the 0.0 miner, to the can flipper to the hot dropper and his 23 SuperCap friends out on a Sunday afternoon drive. Each micro-transaction created item takes a tiny bit from everyone, as more and more MT items are created, those tiny bits add up until the sandbox has no meaning. Purely cosmetic vanity items, although they could have an impact on certain aspects of the sandbox, they have a far less value at a mechanical level, and thus, have far less mechanical impact on the sandbox. Although some argue PLEX is a micro-transaction, this is demonstrably false. The ISK for which that PLEX is sold, was collected by someone in the game doing whatever it is they do. Thy put forth an effort and got a reward of ISK. They then trade that ISK for a PLEX. The guy who sold the PLEX now has the ISK, and the other guy has the PLEX. Nothing was added or removed from the sandbox, except the need for one or both of them to break the EULA. CCP profits and the players profit from PLEX. The only ones who profit from MTs are CCP, and they do so not only at the expense of the $Cash spender, but of everyone in the game that now no longer has the opportunity to participate in the creation of the MT created items. MTs are theft. Its a nice quote but based on what, your fear of change maybe? If CCP are to magically create vanity items that dont affect game play then it has minimal impact on the market. I hope CCP will be sensible and rather than create an item out of thin air they create a blueprint for that item where that item has an impact on game play be it a mod, an implant, a ship or ammo. By creating the BPC they then feed the market.
Crispin McTarmac	Posted - 2011.06.25 13:57:00 - [34] It boils down to this. If you want performance-based MT to be an efective way of making money, you have to make the game such that it isn't fun if you don't real-money-buy anything. It becomes very difficult to judge how much playing the game "as intended" will cost, and if your customer doesn't know how much your product will cost it becomes difficult for them to give you money. Rule number 1 of business: make it easy for people to give you money. That being said, buying gameplay features like fitting storage or interface improvements is great and I don't know why people are opposed to this particular faucet.
Juliette DuBois	Posted - 2011.06.25 13:58:00 - [35] Losing players is both your loss as a sandbox participant and also a financial and reputation loss for CCP. Players create far more content for this game than CCP ever did. Ragers are angry and offensive and you are being angry and defensive. You are not one ounce more mature than these other people you try so hard to insult.
Adunh Slavy	Posted - 2011.06.25 13:59:00 - [36] Originally by: Shenra Twrin Originally by: Acac Sunflyier With the over quarter million dollars in subscription losses so far, I think not. yeah so ? they may lose 390k $ trough subscriptions but geht like 500k for MT¦s .... And that's why people are ****ed. $500K of MT game chaning stuff is a removeal of $500K of game play from the sand box. If it's just silly hats and pants, it may impact the price of PLEX somewhat, but that will recover over time as marketforces of marginal utility and substitution kick in. My faith in CCP will return SoonÖ
Murev Vorchilde Caldari End Game.	Posted - 2011.06.25 14:02:00 - [37] Originally by: Dibble Dabble Originally by: Acac Sunflyier With the over quarter million dollars in subscription losses so far, I think not. Of course your assuming that these players who quit a) Pay real cash to play.
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.25 14:05:00 - [38] Originally by: Dibble Dabble You really are a sad person. IF your twisted mind can compare MT and my opinon with a **** then I really do hope you quit the game and get some help as I figure you need it. Real word is about change, Eve has to evolve as we did from the apes, with the possible exception of your good self. I am not sad. I am laughing at your ignorance. You called me a kid, you gave me suggestions like I was asking for help. MT is also not your topic any longer, but you made me your new topic. If anything then your posting mentality is sad. --
Adunh Slavy	Posted - 2011.06.25 14:05:00 - [39] Originally by: Dibble Dabble Its a nice quote but based on what, your fear of change maybe? If CCP are to magically create vanity items that dont affect game play then it has minimal impact on the market. I hope CCP will be sensible and rather than create an item out of thin air they create a blueprint for that item where that item has an impact on game play be it a mod, an implant, a ship or ammo. By creating the BPC they then feed the market. What is this fear of change thing that has you so smug and blinded? It's a silly argument and does you no favors. It appears to be your attempt to personalize every argument. You do not want to play the Saul Alinksy game with me. You will loose. If they create a BPC, that steals from the sandbox. No one had to buy the BPO and research it, put up a POS or take the time to make the copies, mine the ICE to run that POS, do the PI to build that POS, do the PI to make the fuel to feed that POS, kill the rats to get the ISK to buy the BPO, mine the mins to make the ammo to kill the rats. My faith in CCP will return SoonÖ
Hyperforce99 Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.06.25 14:09:00 - [40] Reasonable priced MT items that are VANITY ONLY will make the game stronger because it will add a new constant line of income for CCP. This should be fine. 5 dollars for a monocle is reasonable, 80 dollars isn't. What will not benefit EVE is adding MT items to the store that will effect the game (as in: implants, rare ships, faction standings) THIS SHOULD NOT BE DONE! --------------------------------------------- Somewhere beyond happyness and sadness, I need to calculate what creates my own madness o/

Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2011.06.25 14:11:00 - [41] Originally by: Juliette DuBois Losing players is both your loss as a sandbox participant and also a financial and reputation loss for CCP. Players create far more content for this game than CCP ever did. Ragers are angry and offensive and you are being angry and defensive. You are not one ounce more mature than these other people you try so hard to insult. Players come and go and all games need new players to come in to refresh those that leave. Same happens in football teams, companies, politics etc. The problem we face is that the new generation demand differnt things and as such the game has to change and we either accept those changes and adapt or resign and move to a different team or company. Some of the old fools in this game want to remain the powerforce they are. Look at the CSM, same alliance puppets since day 1. Differnt faces maybe but still their own interests at heart. Would you trust them to move an organisation forward with the limited self centred agenda and block votes from their lemming members? Look at the 0.0 space. Same old crap, same old leaders, funded by RMT, Bots, slaves and egos. Look at the economy. Controlled by the very same alliances who supply the moon goo, high end minerals, salvage and officer mods. To fund RMT and their own egos. MT offers a break from this and with some luck will weaken the RMT and Bot Alliances and make Eve a better place.
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2011.06.25 14:12:00 - [42] MT on game-play items in Eve will turn Eve into WoT in space - shallow kill'em all arcade but WoT is free to play FYI. Eve still costs $15 per month.
Adunh Slavy	Posted - 2011.06.25 14:14:00 - [43] Originally by: Dibble Dabble MT offers a break from this and with some luck will weaken the RMT and Bot Alliances and make Eve a better place. Ok, demonstrably prove your assertion, let's have it. My faith in CCP will return SoonÖ
Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2011.06.25 14:26:00 - [44] Originally by: Adunh Slavy Originally by: Dibble Dabble Its a nice quote but based on what, your fear of change maybe? If CCP are to magically create vanity items that dont affect game play then it has minimal impact on the market. I hope CCP will be sensible and rather than create an item out of thin air they create a blueprint for that item where that item has an impact on game play be it a mod, an implant, a ship or ammo. By creating the BPC they then feed the market. What is this fear of change thing that has you so smug and blinded? It's a silly argument and does you no favors. It appears to be your attempt to personalize every argument. You do not want to play the Saul Alinksy game with me. You will loose. If they create a BPC, that steals from the sandbox. No one had to buy the BPO and research it, put up a POS or take the time to make the copies, mine the ICE to run that POS, do the PI to build that POS, do the PI to make the fuel to feed that POS, kill the rats to get the ISK to buy the BPO, mine the mins to make the ammo to kill the rats. I guess you need to read your Janet and John books again. Ship BPC a blinged Ishtar. You buy it from the shop for Aurum. To build you need a T2 Ishtar and some other crap from the market. Hence the cycle is maintained. T1 / T2 / Invention / Mining / POS all still needed by the market / players to provide before the player can get his Blinged Ishtar. You could convert your ISK to Plex to Aurum. Buy the BPC, Make the Ship. Sell it. Simples.
Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2011.06.25 14:31:00 - [45] Originally by: Adunh Slavy Originally by: Dibble Dabble MT offers a break from this and with some luck will weaken the RMT and Bot Alliances and make Eve a better place. Ok, demonstrably prove your assertion, let's have it. I dont know how it will impact on the game. CCP have not been so kind as to let me into their plans. Its obvious that the same applies to you and yet your so worried by something that may happen. So neither of us can prove our assertions can we? You can blindly panic about some possible change that you percive will have a negative impact on your game. If you go through life worring about what might happen then I pity you. Should the worst happen then we can quit. Remember this is not real life, computer have off buttons and they are a fail safe. Off buttons are their for a reason, me thinks you should learn how to use it.
Alaric T'Sun Minmatar Aphelion T'Sun	Posted - 2011.06.25 14:35:00 - [46] Originally by: Dibble Dabble blah ... There are many out there that will migrate to Eve if they could use their own wealth to give them a helping hand. MT is only an extension of the plex system. ... blah ... A new generation of players will join eve that will give it a lift it deserves. So what if they can afford more, real life is just like that, its what they call a sandbox, anything can happen. ... blah This is the exact same thought process that SOE went through with Galaxies. You can't presume that changing your business model will bring in new business, especially in a market like MMOs. There is a core group of people that are loyal to your business. The larger this core, the more rotating customers they bring in. For example, you're driving through Kansas and you get hungry. One restaurant, Lefties, with 10 kansas trucks outside. On the other side a restaurant called, Righties, with 1 kansas truck and nine trucks from other states. Where would you stop?
Quebber	Posted - 2011.06.25 14:39:00 - [47] I have played eve in various chars for about 5 years. Enjoyed everything from pve to pvp, been part of some great corps and alliances, fought in many huge battles. I value my time on eve, I buy on average 2 gtc's a week because if I want to pvp or set up sov or anything else I don't need to grind or want too. My time is worth more than the cost of gtc, I have been gaming since muds and before that old tec on bbs's, now 20 years later life is good for me. The time I could spend making money in game I instead walk the dog, make food, bake, watch films and most importantly when in eve I do not haveto live by the isk per hour rule. If I want to grab a moros to shoot friends for giggles with dread gurista ammo I damn well will do it. If war happens or friends need my help 40-60 pvp ships will be bought. MT will not change EVE any more than GTC's did. Incarna is fun, no one I spend time with in eve atm sees it as a bad thing and between us that is about 30 accounts not leaving, not running people who still have confidence in ccp. Fly safe people remember this is CCP's game always has been just like every mmo out there, we play in there world, ccp is better than most, I think people forget that there own self important ego doesn't exist beyond there own mind.
Adunh Slavy	Posted - 2011.06.25 14:44:00 - [48] Originally by: Dibble Dabble I guess you need to read your Janet and John books again. Ship BPC a blinged Ishtar. You buy it from the shop for Aurum. To build you need a T2 Ishtar and some other crap from the market. Hence the cycle is maintained. T1 / T2 / Invention / Mining / POS all still needed by the market / players to provide before the player can get his Blinged Ishtar. You could convert your ISK to Plex to Aurum. Buy the BPC, Make the Ship. Sell it. Simples. And that what you describe no one has a problem with. That is vanity, so long as "bling ishtar" is functionaly no different from a normal one, and all the inputs, ALL of them, were exactly the same, then fine, great, no one is overly concerned. My faith in CCP will return SoonÖ
Prince Kobol	Posted - 2011.06.25 14:48:00 - [49] Originally by: Dibble Dabble Originally by: Prince Kobol Originally by: Dibble Dabble Originally by: Whitehound What happens within the EVE universe is our - the players' - own business. This is what you have to face with. If we now have to face players, who invest ú150 per month into EVE, then it is not a game any more, but has become a serious business. Your wrong, this is CCP's game not ours. Its grown since so much in 6 years and needs to grow more. People have been funding their game via plex for years. The hard core honest meta gamers who just PVP are happy to blow a days wage or an hours wage to fund their fun. CCP is a commercial operation, its designed to make money and it has to evolve. yes it is CCP Games, Yes CCp is a commercial operation and yes they are design to make money. Just one problem. How does a Company make money without customers? I think it wants new customers as with people like you on board eve will stagnate and die. You really should embrace the future and move with the times. Adapt and move forward. Or quit. ROFL... you know nothing about me... However I will help try and understand my position without any insults :) I have said in a number of threads that I am not against MT, in fact I am actually in favour of them. As a Lotro Lifer I have seen the how having a cash store to generate extra income can help in the development of a MMO. What I am against is the introduction of non-vanity items for cash. The argument over PLEX has been done to death and I am not going to start it again here. If you do not understand how introducing non-vanity for cash in a MT store would be bad then you have no idea how Eve works. Also in regards to getting new players, being able to buy items for cash will not work with Eve. The negative effect of cash stores is that it encourages short term players, not those who are willing to invest time and effort. These kind of players like to hit max level asap, run end game content and then move on to the next F2P MMO
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.06.25 14:50:00 - [50] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 25/06/2011 14:51:41 Originally by: Whitehound EVE is still just a game. Keep the real money out of it, and keep vanity out of it as well. Too late. RL money already got in it with the introduction of PLEX. Originally by: Crispin McTarmac It boils down to this. If you want performance-based MT to be an efective way of making money, you have to make the game such that it isn't fun if you don't real-money-buy anything. Well if you have a lot of ISK and can fly big ships it's also because you payed years of subscription which is also power for RL cash.

Adunh Slavy	Posted - 2011.06.25 14:53:00 - [51] Originally by: Adunh Slavy Ok, demonstrably prove your assertion, let's have it. Originally by: Dibble Dabble I dont know how it will impact on the game. CCP have not been so kind as to let me into their plans. Its obvious that the same applies to you and yet your so worried by something that may happen. Well if you don't know, then perhaps you should stop tossing around things you can not prove and instead looking for excuses to toss out some "change is good" crap you picked up from the TV. Originally by: Dibble Dabble So neither of us can prove our assertions can we? You can blindly panic about some possible change that you percive will have a negative impact on your game. If you go through life worring about what might happen then I pity you. I can prove my assertion and I have been doing so for months in lots of threads. Hundreds of other people can also prove it, and that's why so many people are up in arms. As for your personal comments, your childish red herrings, you're loosing credibility fast. My faith in CCP will return SoonÖ
Myfanwy Heimdal Caldari Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc	Posted - 2011.06.25 14:57:00 - [52] Originally by: Adunh Slavy Originally by: Dibble Dabble I guess you need to read your Janet and John books again. Ship BPC a blinged Ishtar. You buy it from the shop for Aurum. To build you need a T2 Ishtar and some other crap from the market. Hence the cycle is maintained. T1 / T2 / Invention / Mining / POS all still needed by the market / players to provide before the player can get his Blinged Ishtar. You could convert your ISK to Plex to Aurum. Buy the BPC, Make the Ship. Sell it. Simples. And that what you describe no one has a problem with. That is vanity, so long as "bling ishtar" is functionaly no different from a normal one, and all the inputs, ALL of them, were exactly the same, then fine, great, no one is overly concerned. Agree. Totally. If nothing is magically created then there's no problem. In the above scenario the stuff has to be made by players, hauled to this Pimp My Ishtar workshop, hand over some stuff and then, lo, nothing is created. Now, this is fine and no-one complaning against RMT is against this. If the new Ishtar was better then the old Ishtar then something has to be destroyed to make it so.
Quebber	Posted - 2011.06.25 14:57:00 - [53] Even though I buy gtcs it does not make me a better pvper, even if I could buy a titan from the aurum store or some super T3 sexeh beast, if I don't know how to fly it then all I do is make another pvpers day. MT or GTC does not make eve unbalanced, it just makes my day if I shoot some idiot in a ship or jeans he got from the store :P
Myfanwy Heimdal Caldari Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc	Posted - 2011.06.25 15:03:00 - [54] Originally by: Dibble Dabble I suggest you read the actual CCP Blog that was leaked rather than pick the soundbites and juicy bits. Reading the whole blog will tell you a lot more than simply reading the headlines and panic led crap thats come out. But maybe thats too much to ask. Change is good and Eve needs to change. Dont like it then quit. I think that it would be fair to state that you don't know what I have nor what I haven't read. So you can lay off the implied insults. And, no you don't need to ask as it's already been done. Change is good? Is it always? Some is, some isn't. And, yes, if I don't like it then I will certainly quit.
Lilith Mrak	Posted - 2011.06.25 15:13:00 - [55] best troll thread ever and godwins law was invoked on the first page awesome all this talk about MT is based around assumptions if its just bling or ** that doesnt touch the market in any way its good, if its pay to win korea grinder bull its bad, we dont know this yet many people are unsubbing and quitting to wait this out and see how it evolves, if the MTs turn out to be just idiots spending money on something that no one needs and doesnt hurt anyone, people will return, if MT turns out you can get 6mil sp in 2 weeks, get faction standings to 8.0 instantly and have items created out of thin air, then they wont come back and more people will gtfo Arguing all these posts about stuff only made around assumptions and personal beliefs is not really contributing to anything. If you believe in CCP to make this good, or if you dont have a problem paying MTs just stay and play, if you're thinking it will turn out worse or if you think CCP will ** up then unsub, wait and see.
Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2011.06.25 15:14:00 - [56] Originally by: Adunh Slavy I can prove my assertion and I have been doing so for months in lots of threads. Hundreds of other people can also prove it, and that's why so many people are up in arms. As for your personal comments, your childish red herrings, you're loosing credibility fast. Bull****. You only think you can prove something but you have no evidence to back it up. You base your "proof" on soundbites, fear, assumption and speculation. When CCP have something to tell us then I am sure they will. Eve is changing and you either adapt or move on.
sniperNZSAS	Posted - 2011.06.25 15:58:00 - [57] Tall poppy syndrome. Nothing more. Dibble Dabble seems less of a representative for MT and more a rep for butt hurt nublets who cannot be bothered spending time grinding up skill sets and gaming skill. Your view that change is always good, regarding both in game and real world, is incredibly ignorant and you are in dire need of a history lesson. Players become dull in every game they play. Its simply a matter of time. If anything, MT will only shorten the lifespan of eve players. The only reason I have played this game for 2 years is because of the skill grind and constantly looking forward to the next step. If I could simply get as far as I could by trading in a plex, I would have played around in a titan for a few days and then quit eve. You are also assuming that everyone has the expendable income to waste on MT. I myself am a student. I work hard to grind my isk to buy my plex's, and am please that with isk, I am in reach of every aspect of this game. If MT reached the level to which I was excluded from performance enhancing items, I would promptly give up playing. The only up side MT would bring for me is; nub joins eve. nub, realising the grind he is in for, spends large quantities of money to buy skillpoints/ships. nub fits officer/MT performance items to a faction battleship. Nub flies out to 0.0 to begin shooting those cool red X's in the belts. nub ends up in my killmails. nub quits eve leaving behind large quantities of tears. (although this already goes on to a small extent, an MT would inevitably increase the frequency). Thats about all I can say on the matter. oh, btw Dibble, whether a pilot who has quit eve payed for his subs using $ or isk, its still a sub loss. whether I pay for my sub or use a plex, ccp has still made $ off someone. one less plex sold to me is one less plex someone is going to need to buy from ccp.
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.06.25 16:06:00 - [58] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 25/06/2011 16:06:41 Originally by: sniperNZSAS Players become dull in every game they play. Its simply a matter of time. If anything, MT will only shorten the lifespan of eve players. The only reason I have played this game for 2 years is because of the skill grind and constantly looking forward to the next step. If I could simply get as far as I could by trading in a plex, I would have played around in a titan for a few days and then quit eve. But is that neccessarily bad? Look at guildwars, people didn't stay very long on average but they had many millions of people playing it. They made a huge profit for NCSoft even if it wasn't pay to pay and only had a few MT items. Quote: You are also assuming that everyone has the expendable income to waste on MT. I myself am a student. I work hard to grind my isk to buy my plex's, and am please that with isk, I am in reach of every aspect of this game. If MT reached the level to which I was excluded from performance enhancing items, I would promptly give up playing. In time, you're able to get anything. After all you are the one advertising patience. If you don't mind waiting for 3 years to fly a supercap, why mind waiting for a year to buy a MT item? If you wait long enough you may have finished your study and have a job that may easily afford you a few extra plex a month! Quote: oh, btw Dibble, whether a pilot who has quit eve payed for his subs using $ or isk, its still a sub loss. whether I pay for my sub or use a plex, ccp has still made $ off someone. one less plex sold to me is one less plex someone is going to need to buy from ccp. True. They rather have people spending plex on AUR MT items than gametime I guess.
Adunh Slavy	Posted - 2011.06.25 16:20:00 - [59] Originally by: Dibble Dabble Originally by: Adunh Slavy I can prove my assertion and I have been doing so for months in lots of threads. Hundreds of other people can also prove it, and that's why so many people are up in arms. As for your personal comments, your childish red herrings, you're loosing credibility fast. Bull****. You only think you can prove something but you have no evidence to back it up. You base your "proof" on soundbites, fear, assumption and speculation. When CCP have something to tell us then I am sure they will. Eve is changing and you either adapt or move on. You your self demonstrated an MT transaction that preserves the sandbox in post number 44. You are screaming at your own brick wall. Wake up. My faith in CCP will return SoonÖ
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.25 16:30:00 - [60] Originally by: Jennifer Starling Too late. RL money already got in it with the introduction of PLEX. If you want nit-picking ... subscriptions cost money, too. The point of the PLEX was however to get control over the goldsellers. In return did we get play-for-free. This was an acceptable deal for us. It still is however just the lesser of two evils and only the play-for-free is seen as an improvement. So now CCP wants to stretch it out and this goes beyond what we want. New items, even vanity items, can all be fun if they are made part of the actual play. Take the exotic dancers for example. A useless item on its own just like the monocles, but it is part of some missions and occasionally drops as loot, which makes it good fun. Now we get the Noble Exchange, where we can buy useless stuff for either real money on tons of ISKs, and without having any meaning to the play. It does however seem as if they really mean it and that they want players not just to subscribe to their game and play it, but they also want us to spend extra money on useless crap and walk around with it. --

Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2011.06.25 17:23:00 - [61] Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 25/06/2011 16:36:48 Originally by: Jennifer Starling Too late. RL money already got in it with the introduction of PLEX. If you want nit-picking ... subscriptions cost money, too. ..... So now CCP wants to stretch it out and this goes beyond what we want. ..... what we want Last time I checked you didnt speak for me and unless you have been given some form of proxy rights I dare say there are hundreds of thousands out there who have their own opinion. I understand you dont like MT, but please dont assume you speak for everyone.
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.25 17:32:00 - [62] Edited by: Whitehound on 25/06/2011 17:33:09 Originally by: Dibble Dabble Last time I checked you didnt speak for me ... You are really smart! You are indeed not part of the protesters. You are like an observer who walks past a group of protesters and still believes that everything can be set in order by just peacefully talking about it. If only it always was this easy then we never would have wars. Or perhaps I am wrong ... We protest simply because we can, and because we do not like where the game is currently going. Once you catch up feel free to join the protest. Until then just keep playing with your spaceship. We, the protesters, will make ourselves heard by CCP and you do not have to thank us for it. And sorry if the noise has woken you up. --
Brynj Spirum	Posted - 2011.06.25 18:37:00 - [63] Originally by: Jennifer Starling Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 25/06/2011 16:06:41 Originally by: sniperNZSAS Players become dull in every game they play. Its simply a matter of time. If anything, MT will only shorten the lifespan of eve players. The only reason I have played this game for 2 years is because of the skill grind and constantly looking forward to the next step. If I could simply get as far as I could by trading in a plex, I would have played around in a titan for a few days and then quit eve. But is that neccessarily bad? Look at guildwars, people didn't stay very long on average but they had many millions of people playing it. They made a huge profit for NCSoft even if it wasn't pay to pay and only had a few MT items. Now, I don't like to subscribe to the paranoid idea that a lot of the white knights jumping to CCP's defense are dev alts or the like. I'm sure tons of them believe what they are saying (though the trolls are out in force), but I wonder about posts like these. You are actually arguing that the game itself wasn't good enough to keep players engaged for any significant period of time, but due to the large turnover of the playerbase, the game was a financial success. HUH? That's not a player's argument, that's a company one. You're making the case that CCP worsens the game to increase their bottom line. I hope CCP makes as much money as possible, but if it fundamentally changes the game, and not in a good way as I believe, why would anyone who doesn't collect a paycheck from them support it? Sniper is absolutely right in saying that instant gratification will kill EVE. The whole point of this game is to find your niche and build something grand out of it. A trading mogul, manufacturing giant, or carving out your own personel empire. Real effort achieves results that actually mean something. A "I win button" might drive revenue for CCP, but it'll be a hollow shell from what it is now.
Brooks Puuntai Minmatar Nomadic Asylum	Posted - 2011.06.25 18:44:00 - [64] Edited by: Brooks Puuntai on 25/06/2011 18:44:42 So wait Eve turning into a another mediocre MT driven MMO, while still charging subs is good for Eve? Eve use to be unique and a innovation within the MMO community. Now its just conforming with what the rest of the industry is doing.
Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2011.06.25 20:53:00 - [65] Originally by: Brynj Spirum You are actually arguing that the game itself wasn't good enough to keep players engaged for any significant period of time, but due to the large turnover of the playerbase, the game was a financial success. HUH? That's not a player's argument, that's a company one. You're making the case that CCP worsens the game to increase their bottom line. I hope CCP makes as much money as possible, but if it fundamentally changes the game, and not in a good way as I believe, why would anyone who doesn't collect a paycheck from them support it? Sniper is absolutely right in saying that instant gratification will kill EVE. The whole point of this game is to find your niche and build something grand out of it. A trading mogul, manufacturing giant, or carving out your own personel empire. Real effort achieves results that actually mean something. A "I win button" might drive revenue for CCP, but it'll be a hollow shell from what it is now. The game hasnt changed much in the last few years. Same old alliances who control the majority of Eve isk. The player base was falling with the churn rate reduced as more players simply added a 2nd, 3rd or more accounts. CCP are not stupid and there will be no "I win" eve button as part of MT. If you have enough real life cash you can buy whatever you want in Eve. This could be anything costing a few mil to an officer fit titan. Plex gave us that. If you cant be arsed training for 3-4 years then go buy a new character with your real life cash converted to plex. MT will run alongside plex and offer more and will appeal to other players new to the game. I am not sure where the balance will be. I suspect CCP will slowly roll out more vanity items and then add more bling for ships ready for Dust to hit next year. I am not sure if they will ever offer Skill Points for Aurum or faction standing or clearing your sec status. They will offer the ability to improve your character or experiance in Eve which maybe not to everyones liking. Only time will tell.
sniperNZSAS	Posted - 2011.06.26 00:50:00 - [66] Originally by: Dibble Dabble The game hasnt changed much in the last few years. Same old alliances who control the majority of Eve isk. I find it hilarious you seem to be so heavily focused on treating MT like its going to be your in-game neo-marxist savior. You seem to treat the relationship between big alliance and isk like some fascist entity which governs utmost control over all players in eve. This is really bordering on the edge of tinfoil hat material. I think Dibble needs to move back to soviet russia.
Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2011.06.26 15:40:00 - [67] Originally by: sniperNZSAS Originally by: Dibble Dabble The game hasnt changed much in the last few years. Same old alliances who control the majority of Eve isk. I find it hilarious you seem to be so heavily focused on treating MT like its going to be your in-game neo-marxist savior. You seem to treat the relationship between big alliance and isk like some fascist entity which governs utmost control over all players in eve. This is really bordering on the edge of tinfoil hat material. I think Dibble needs to move back to soviet russia. Sniper lets be honest here. The alliances are the real power in Eve are they not? They control the moon goo, most of the T2 BPO's, best minerals, best rats and all sorts of good stuff. Many of these aliances are bot friendly and will use their position for RMT. You may live under a rock and live in a fantisy world of your own making in which case your dumber than you look but at least it explains a lot. Now with MT we dont have to spend billions on an officer mod that goes into the pockets of the already stinking rich simply to enable them to sell more ISK for real cash. I can go get my bling mod from the bling shop and bypass those corrupt alliances. I can then sell this on the market for ISK or use it as needed. This is what scares the crap out of the lemmings and their masters. They will lose control and thier power. This is good thing and get my vote. You on the other hand can continue to live under that rock and let the real world pass by, no one will notice you.


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