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Moa, a glory of the past ?

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Sorja	Posted - 2005.02.20 16:20:00 - [1] I know cruisers are crap for PvP, but I bought a new one for the sake of it trying to fit it for anti-frig. 1¦ I can't fit 4 medium blasters and an MWD, there's not enough cap (engi 5). I need 3 PDS II to fit it all. Bad. 2¦ I can fit 4 dual 150's, but I have troubles hitting a webbed interceptor at 8 km (despite his MWD sig penalty): rails tracking is so great... 3¦ Cap usage for a cruiser MWD (was using an Y-8 something overcharged) is too high. Combined with rails, I couldn't hold MWD more than 3 cycles without getting low on cap. 4¦ Not enough mid slots: webber, scrambler, MWD, that leaves only one slot for tanking and since all grid is gone, so much for the +5% shield boosting ability of the Moa. I fitted a dampener as only defense. 5¦ I thought about fitting small guns, but the Moa has a range bonus on Medium rails only. 6¦ The opponents do not even have to scramble me since the Moa maneuvers like a brick. Luckily I had one WCS fitted for my testing (since the opponents where not friendly at all). 7¦ I looked at my lovely Moa (one of the best looking Caldari ships IMO) and went back in my Harpy. Proposals: Increase the Moa's powergrid Transfer one low to med so it has 5 meds 3 lows Decrease it's mass so it has a maveuverability comparable to a Harpy Give it +10% range and +5% damage to all railguns (or turrets) Have a look at rails tracking. Reduce cap usage for cruiser MWD
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2005.02.20 16:32:00 - [2] Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 20/02/2005 16:32:54 You realise you're supposed to fit a Moa with Railguns right? Because then you wont need all that crap in your medslots, and you can use the PDUIIs to keep your cap up. EDIT: And another thing. NPC intys do not suffer the MWD sig penalty. /Elve New Video out! Watch me!
Dexter Rast	Posted - 2005.02.20 17:01:00 - [3] `I know cruisers are crap for PvP,` are they? maybe its just you ---------------------------------------------
Nafri	Posted - 2005.02.20 17:04:00 - [4] moa isnt a great PvP cruiser it has no good rail bonus and no missle bonus and both rails and missles need bonuses to compare to other guns Wanna fly with me?
Nadec Ascand	Posted - 2005.02.20 17:13:00 - [5] Leave my moa as it is... Maybe the best cruiser after thorax... Hudge shield booster and range bonus... Just put 4 250 proto rail and 2 arbalest heavy launcher add a Med shield booster 2 an AB and here u are ready for fight Yeah im caldari... and yeah im flying a megatron... Why coz maybe now only caldary are tough enough to fly those and evryone use caldari ship...
Mikelangelo	Posted - 2005.02.20 17:15:00 - [6] Moa's are fine. They are a rail gunboat, not a blaster boat.
MachineMk2	Posted - 2005.02.20 17:18:00 - [7] It also looks like a giant space chicken.
Istvaan Shogaatsu	Posted - 2005.02.20 17:41:00 - [8] Try a Moa with four electrons/ions and two nosfers. Oh, and power diags in the lowslots aren't a bad thing.
Bagdh Dearg	Posted - 2005.02.20 17:55:00 - [9] Hey lads just bought a MOA for a laugh but couldnt find a setup in the big list O' Ships sticky.Anyone got a good setup for Level 2 Agent missions? _______________________________________________ An tÚ nach bhfuil lßidir nÝ folßir d¾ bheith glic -He who is not strong must be crafty
Sorja	Posted - 2005.02.20 18:22:00 - [10] I'm was NOT talking about carebearing here, so if you think the Moa is good for PvP, tell HOW it can be, if you are soooo smart And FYI: Heavy Neutron Blaster = 225 MW 250 mm Railgun = 225 MW You can't fit that with a MWD, and longrange is just pointless in a game where most fights occur at gates. 3 PDS II's don't cut the mustard since I need high cap regeneration for the MWD + guns, thus my point about insane cap usage for cruiser MWDs. More about longrange (4 x 250mm == no MWD), I'll laugh at any long range Moa all day in any frigate, and will take that Moa down in a Kestrel.
Grimpak	Posted - 2005.02.20 18:39:00 - [11] Edited by: Grimpak on 20/02/2005 18:40:29 Originally by: Sorja Heavy Neutron Blaster = 225 MW 250 mm Railgun = 225 MW well you make a mistake right there. Why do you think most people like ions better than neutrons? Still you are making a presumption that Moa should be a short range blaster boat, wich is not. It's a rail sniper. If you want a blaster boat, there's thorax. ------------------- Quote: Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
Darken Two	Posted - 2005.02.20 18:41:00 - [12] Edited by: Darken Two on 20/02/2005 18:41:32 Its impossible to fit 5 neutron blasters on a thorax as well without some kinda grid enhancing module, so Moas are just fine. Plus I think ur skills must be low if ur having probs fitting a moa. Also remember, theer is no cruiser as far as I know that can fit the biggest guns in all its high slots. There are no raxes with 5 neutrons, no moas with 4 250s and 2 heavy launchers and no amarr tier 3 ship which can fit a full rach of biggest beam lasers, without using a grid module. So there ya go. Ps. Long range is not crap, that's prime inty popping range. Why dont you just DIE DIE DIE !!!!
Sorja	Posted - 2005.02.20 20:35:00 - [13] Skills low ? I have engi 5, there's no engi spec. Ion blasters might be an option, but they have a still lower range and why in hell can't I equip 4 guns designed for the ship I'm flying ? And equipping blasters without MWD isn't an option neither. About long range, I don't know what game you are playing, but certainly not the same as me. I would love to have long range fights, but simply never see them in EVE, aka Gate-Online. Long range is for NPCing. What is weird with these forums is how people come here saying 'all is fine' while some ships, especially the Moa, have completely gone extinct. The last I saw in the north was 2 monthes ago when I lost mine to a geddon. I've never seen one since then, it's all T2 frigs and BSs.
Hellspawn666	Posted - 2005.02.20 20:52:00 - [14] moas need some loving atm i have faield to see any cruiser being used effectivly i mean they arnt unusable but they lack the health points or the speed to be good at anything with the exception of teh blackbird for jamming i would like to see their base speeds go up to make them able to evade at least some fo teh bs firepower that can just take down a cruiser in 1 or 2 volleys
Face Lifter	Posted - 2005.02.20 20:58:00 - [15] Moa is pretty bad for PvP, since it's meant to be a long range gun boat - and at that, it truely sucks. Cruisers should never be long range gun boats, not with the huge damage and tracking penalties. Not to mention lack of speed and agility to maintain optimal range. This can only work against NPCs since they are retarded, but even so, if there are a few intercepters, you'll have a very hard time hitting them. Cruisers are supposed to be the anti-frig ships. But rails can't hit any frig once it starts orbiting. Moa can't maintain optimal range on any frigate. Eagle inherits many of Moas problems, compared to other HACs, it's kinda crappy.
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2005.02.20 21:32:00 - [16] The problem is you are setting up a long range gun boat as a tackler. Another problem is that long range cruiser gunboat is in the mid range of battleships making it pretty much toast. The third problem is that to be able to hold your target you need at least mwd and a warp scrambler, webbie optional I know I definitly would prefer that. And when you want to shield tank to then it leaves a pretty tight fit in the med slots. If you want it to be an anti frigate platform the webbie is a must imo as they will almost always be faster than you even if you're running the mwd. So the question is, is killing the frigates a must? If you don't mind them warping out and are mostly trying to free up the big guns then just drop the scrambler. You have 1 or 2 med slot free depending on if you fit the warp scrambler so a shield booster and an em hardener would be a good idea or even a shield extender. For you high and low I would suggest going with small guns. Small lasers might be a good idea and just go for 4 damage mods in the lows to make up for the fact that you get no bonuses. Like I said this ship wasn't really meant to be a tackler regardless of anyones opinions on that. Thorax would probably be a better idea for a tackler but it is of course up to you. Hope I mada any sense, I've never tried to fit it as a tackler. __________ Capacitor research
OffBeaT	Posted - 2005.02.20 22:26:00 - [17] i see im not the only one who loves the moa.. i would like too see the moa back to its hay day aswell for a cruiser class ship. i have fon memoirs of the moa. a ship i spent 4 months in.. she was a great ship. you should of seen her in the days of the cruise missle/torps on her.. she was a tuff kick ass ship.. ah, the good days.
Vasche	Posted - 2005.02.20 22:40:00 - [18] Originally by: OffBeaT i see im not the only one who loves the moa.. i would like too see the moa back to its hay day aswell for a cruiser class ship. i have fon memoirs of the moa. a ship i spent 4 months in.. she was a great ship. you should of seen her in the days of the cruise missle/torps on her.. she was a tuff kick ass ship.. ah, the good days. Those were indeed the days -----------------------
Morikai Acler	Posted - 2005.02.21 00:06:00 - [19] 2x 200mm rails 2x heavy launcher 2x medium Nos Tech 2 Large shield booster (or medium tech2) web 20k scrambler em hardener CPR 3x pdu 1s you could easily switch the booster for an MWD. And also if you don't have a shield booster equipped, use cap relays for recharge. Also try 4x200 rails 2x heavy launcher large tech2 shield booster (or medium or MWD) web scrambler hardner whatever it takes to get it to fit.
Felony Assualt	Posted - 2005.02.21 02:27:00 - [20] Originally by: Sorja I know cruisers are crap for PvP, but I bought a new one for the sake of it trying to fit it for anti-frig. 1¦ I can't fit 4 medium blasters and an MWD, there's not enough cap (engi 5). I need 3 PDS II to fit it all. Bad. 2¦ I can fit 4 dual 150's, but I have troubles hitting a webbed interceptor at 8 km (despite his MWD sig penalty): rails tracking is so great... 3¦ Cap usage for a cruiser MWD (was using an Y-8 something overcharged) is too high. Combined with rails, I couldn't hold MWD more than 3 cycles without getting low on cap. 4¦ Not enough mid slots: webber, scrambler, MWD, that leaves only one slot for tanking and since all grid is gone, so much for the +5% shield boosting ability of the Moa. I fitted a dampener as only defense. 5¦ I thought about fitting small guns, but the Moa has a range bonus on Medium rails only. 6¦ The opponents do not even have to scramble me since the Moa maneuvers like a brick. Luckily I had one WCS fitted for my testing (since the opponents where not friendly at all). 7¦ I looked at my lovely Moa (one of the best looking Caldari ships IMO) and went back in my Harpy. Proposals: Increase the Moa's powergrid Transfer one low to med so it has 5 meds 3 lows Decrease it's mass so it has a maveuverability comparable to a Harpy Give it +10% range and +5% damage to all railguns (or turrets) Have a look at rails tracking. Reduce cap usage for cruiser MWD If your going for a anti-frig setup, USE frig weapons. Stick 2 or 4 150 rails and 2 or 0 missiles launchers, then fit 2 med nos in the last 2 high slots. You could shield tank it, but it doesnt have enough mid slots for a good tank. I found that armor tanking works better with a anti-frig setup because you have extra mid slot for scrams, webbers, mwd, and a large cap battery. Try that setup Those who can, do; Those who cant, teach
Question2	Posted - 2005.02.21 04:30:00 - [21] The supposed rail/blaster boats have ridicuously low grid.FACT.Look at amaar ship grids.THIS is how it should be done.Actually some minnie ships could use a boost too. And if you are asking me to fit small guns on a cruiser i might as well get a cheap destroyer with uber tracking and damage bonuses.
Sorja	Posted - 2005.02.21 05:11:00 - [22] Indeed, after trying various fittings, I came to the conclusion that as anti-frig, I had to fit 125's (better tracking than 150's and damage is not much lower). Then I looked at the setup I came to... wondered what the hell I was doing (no bonus on the Moa for SMALL rails, only MEDIUM), thought I was going nowhere, repackaged it and hopped into my Harpy, which has the same medium slots count, incredible resistances, still flies like a brick (but a smaller brick) and doesn't need any PDS (2 Mag Stabs II in lows are enough). I lose more when I go poof but since I'll escape 6 times when a Moa will die each time... Now... I said I wanted to fit a Moa for anti-frig, and there's a reason. There are no cruisers where I Fight (over 5 regions), only frigates and BSs (excepted some Blackbirds and a cruiser now and then, 1 in 100 ships), so I don't have the opportunity to fight against other cruisers. A setup with 250 mm without MWD might good, but it's pointless at the moment. Against BSs... well... I won't even talk about that. If CCP ever pays some attention to the cruiser ship class, maybe we'll see more cruisers, and maybe the Moa will regain some of it's splendor. Hence my post.
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.02.21 05:16:00 - [23] You mean the Moa was ever a good ship? ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
Seto Mazzarotto	Posted - 2005.02.21 06:19:00 - [24] Now you have me wondering if I can set up for anti-frig with dual webs and medium rails. Also, with those lows you can fit an armor tank in a pinch. It's not what it's meant for and a waste of a bonus, but the option's there nonetheless. ----------- Fighting for the ideals of freespace, posthuman ethics, and rock & roll.
Rex Martell	Posted - 2005.02.21 08:53:00 - [25] A sniper Moa is good fun but like any sniper it is only suited to certain situtions. 3 250's (and what ever other junk you want in high slots anti frig rubbish if it makes you feel safer) 1 x sensor booster 2 x tracking computers 1 x 10mn AB 4 x damage mod's forget about tanking a cruiser for fleet engagements its a waste of slots - in most cases tanking a Battle ship in fleet is a waste. "The object of war is not to die for your corp, but to make the other b@##@#d die for his"
FireFoxx80	Posted - 2005.02.21 09:48:00 - [26] The problem is that the Moa was always good for sniping, you could fit 4x200mm or 4x250mm (with good skills). Combine this with range and targeting boosting skills, and Lead(?) ammo, I'd routinely be hitting ships upwards of 60km. I feel Moa's have been nerfed for PvE due to the following: Ever since complexes have been introduced I found that most things would be under that critical 20km where you couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with the above setup. Combined with some rats being over 90km away for some missions, you are stuck with an efficient setup. Sure, you cold have 2xDual150 + 2x250, or swap between AM/Lead ammo, but that still somewhat limits you to a 50-70km killzone or 10-30km. Anything under that 10km (read: drones) will still kill you. IMHO the Moa needs to take a hit on that hybrid range bonus, and have an increase in tracking. Say something like 5% bonus to medium hybrid range, 5% bonus to medium hybrid tracking per level. Saying that, do the range bonuses on a Moa also apply to blasters? ex P-TMC If you think you can do a better job, go find yourself a datacentre to host a box, get a copy of Visual Studio, and STFU.
Vee Bot	Posted - 2005.02.21 11:31:00 - [27] Originally by: MachineMk2 It also looks like a giant space chicken. The Moa??? Ever seen a prophecy?? ------------------ (_8(\|) BEWARE. EBIL HOMER. IF SPOTTED CALL THIS NUMBER 0-800-I-C-HOMER
FoxHunt	Posted - 2005.02.26 20:14:00 - [28] fit small lasers, 2 lrg shield extenders, and whatever else ya need. The Moa does have some uses has a short-range platform. "If laughter truly is the best medicine, then the story you told me just cleared up my Hepatitis."
DARKKK	Posted - 2005.02.27 14:24:00 - [29] hey sorja... why do you need to fit biggest guns? F* caldari/amarr users... why do you think ion blasters are in game? They are in game cause they are only guns gallente can fit, exept t2 light neutrons on rax, etc. I can say only OMG... if you want to have biggest guns, go fly amarr, but then don't whine, that they don't have weapon bonuses :)(and those who have, have insane dmg(Arma,zealot, retribution)).
Valrandir	Posted - 2005.02.27 15:31:00 - [30] Originally by: Sorja I know cruisers are crap for PvP, but I bought a new one for the sake of it trying to fit it for anti-frig. The MOA is a long range cruiser, and so it WILL not be good for close range anti-interceptor. Originally by: Sorja 1¦ I can't fit 4 medium blasters and an MWD, there's not enough cap (engi 5). I need 3 PDS II to fit it all. Bad. 2¦ I can fit 4 dual 150's, but I have troubles hitting a webbed interceptor at 8 km (despite his MWD sig penalty): rails tracking is so great... The MOA is a long range cruiser. You can fit 4x 250mm RailGuns with two heavy launchers and a good shield tank. Originally by: Sorja 3¦ Cap usage for a cruiser MWD (was using an Y-8 something overcharged) is too high. Combined with rails, I couldn't hold MWD more than 3 cycles without getting low on cap. 4¦ Not enough mid slots: webber, scrambler, MWD, that leaves only one slot for tanking and since all grid is gone, so much for the +5% shield boosting ability of the Moa. I fitted a dampener as only defense. 5¦ I thought about fitting small guns, but the Moa has a range bonus on Medium rails only. 6¦ The opponents do not even have to scramble me since the Moa maneuvers like a brick. Luckily I had one WCS fitted for my testing (since the opponents where not friendly at all). 7¦ I looked at my lovely Moa (one of the best looking Caldari ships IMO) and went back in my Harpy. You are trying to use the wrong ship for the wrong task. A MOA is still a great cruiser, when used for what he's good at. Originally by: Sorja Proposals: Increase the Moa's powergrid Transfer one low to med so it has 5 meds 3 lows Decrease it's mass so it has a maveuverability comparable to a Harpy Give it +10% range and +5% damage to all railguns (or turrets) Have a look at rails tracking. Reduce cap usage for cruiser MWD You want to change the MOA so that you can use it incorrectly? --------------------------------

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