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Capdown Jakuard
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Posted - 2011.06.25 23:36:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Capdown Jakuard on 25/06/2011 23:38:31
 Originally by: Miz Chief
The customers aren't being sufficiently serviced? I don't understand, the big thing that's got people het up is what they MAY do, not what's definitely going to happen.
It was an internal newsletter for discussion, not implementation.
Well thats the whole point Miz.
People gave their opinion and want to know what the reply is, however there is no reply.
It's been quite some time...
Should the ones with complaints be put hold or talked about as if they are idiots talking out their a**?
(if that leaked email is not a fake)
People are pretty serious about their opinions on here and so they should be if they have invested a large amount of money and time in to the game
There is nothing to be confused about here at all
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Janus Talmash
Talmash Imports and Exports Group
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Posted - 2011.06.25 23:39:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Janus Talmash on 25/06/2011 23:44:34
Originally by: Miz Chief
I understand that some people take this game seriously, and they're getting concerned about the direction it might be taking, but the abuse I'm reading is beyond words.
If you don't like the way the game company runs the game, just leave. Hurling abuse, insults and even threats at the very people who you rely on to give you the entertainment you wish to participate in is just stupid.
And if you take this GAME so seriously that it's got you this upset, perhaps you need to re-address your life's priorities a little.
Disregarding the "dev alt" remark (and if it were true understanding it to a point as it's the only way to voice yourself) here's some thoughts:
- CCP, as a whole, only listens when there's an outrage. History shows this time and time again, the company doesn't change it's course through subtle influencing. This doesn't work for the customer > company relationship and it also doesn't seem to work for the employee > management relationship IRL (per Glassdoor.com). The only thing that seems to work is a bloody revolt.
- CCP has a history, again, of making very questionable decisions (now seen in a different light) and while they were sometimes moronic we never expected there to be foul play at work. This time it's different, THIS time CCP management has STATED that they expect their golden goose, their milk cows to be "upset and angry, but in time it'll quiet down and they'll reluctantly go back to being milked". The only response to that is more revolt by the people who read, realise and understand the (not so) subtle difference.
- In the new light of how CCP seems to work and what direction management seems to have chosen employees have no other option than to stay quiet and to talk as they've been told to. Net result is that while Soundwave, Zulu and the community team at first glance might be seen as the bad boogie-men it's highly probable that they've been forced into this type of thinking and acting, choreographed by upper management.
The problem is that most of the people either didn't follow the EVE-radio thing, nor properly followed the rest of the information (or are just too thick and/or lazy per usual) haven't caught up with that. So yes to anyone thinking Soundwave or Zulu should be the recipient of your anger, they're not, trust me and inform yourself. Once I realised it myself I apologised several times in different threads for my own reactions towards them.
We should be pointing our anger at Hilmar, but per usual with people who are completely disconnected from reality (or are in a situation where they must follow through with stuff even though they're not behind them) he won't show himself. To me that feels very childish and a very bad PR move, all we want is honesty and a proper answer. For me personally the "subtle" hints are enough to know exactly what is going to happen; give it a month, perhaps three but it IS going to happen, I will not stick around for this and I feel rather betrayed and insulted. Thus I will let my subs run out.
The only way to undo that would be an unequivocally "NO, we won't have pay2win in EVE for the far foreseeable future, and if I'm found to be lying you can come to my house and **** on my carpet". But I doubt this will happen.
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Glyken Touchon
Gallente
Independent Alchemists
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Posted - 2011.06.25 23:41:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
It's not "devs" people are raging about, but just a 3 individuals who spat players in face. They happen to "just" to be the top of the top at CCP though.
The problem is that any dev that shows their face in the forums will get mobbed even though they are not in a position to provide an answer.
CCP Zymurgist showed up to lock a load of threads (thanks!) and people are asking him for an answer to the "billion dollar question"*.
What's his position in CCP?
Management? no
A game designer? no
Finance (I'm stretching the people that may be able to answer)? no
community representative. He needs to receive information before he can pass it on.
*in CCP's dreams..
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Tippia's analysis
Meissa's blog |
Pherick Sjang
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.25 23:48:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Anonymous CCP Employee
CCP does not take criticism well and often ignores retrospectives. Criticism is considered to be a negative attitude and is severely frowned upon. A lot of effort goes into maintaining a good morale with a lot of internal PR. After all itĘs cheaper to print posters than pay an average salary to employees.
Several years now CCP has predicated insane subscriber goals that cannot be met. Naturally this is met with scepticism by the employees but it falls on deaf ears. The result is that the company is suffering because we cannot sustain the development of EVE, DUST and WOD. EVE is not creating enough revenue which means that solutions are sought, solutions that CCP was vehemently against a few years ago.
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Henrica Gaufridus
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Posted - 2011.06.25 23:49:00 -
[35]
Originally by: ExcalibursTemplar
Edited by: ExcalibursTemplar on 25/06/2011 23:23:14
Originally by: Lykouleon
You must be new and not have any understanding about how emotionally tied into the game most of the player base is.
For some of us, this week has been like getting kicked in the groin by our best friend repeatedly for no reason and with no sign of an apology.
^This
To use CCP golfing analogy, I'm a member of a golf club its my hobbie its my passion. The owners of the golf club having decided that myself and my friends are not earning them enough money decided to rip up the green and build a kiddies theme park. My friends and myself have naturally gone ape **** about it as the golf course is our home away from home a place we go to get away from real life bull****. So naturaly we do everything we can in our power to stop the greedy golf course owners from f#cking us over.
No, if you're going to use a golfing analogy:
We have a course we love to play at. We pay a monthly membership fee at this golf club. Well, they started this new program where you can pay more money, and the golf club gives you a billyclub and the right to break someone's kneecaps if you're playing against them.
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Katra Novac
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Posted - 2011.06.25 23:51:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Pherick Sjang
Originally by: Anonymous CCP Employee
CCP does not take criticism well and often ignores retrospectives. Criticism is considered to be a negative attitude and is severely frowned upon. A lot of effort goes into maintaining a good morale with a lot of internal PR. After all itĘs cheaper to print posters than pay an average salary to employees.
Several years now CCP has predicated insane subscriber goals that cannot be met. Naturally this is met with scepticism by the employees but it falls on deaf ears. The result is that the company is suffering because we cannot sustain the development of EVE, DUST and WOD. EVE is not creating enough revenue which means that solutions are sought, solutions that CCP was vehemently against a few years ago.
If that's true then it's as we thought. CCP have over extended themselves and now expect us to pick up the pieces.
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Ispai Ponue
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.06.25 23:54:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Anon Forumalt6858
The customers are not being sufficiently serviced.
That's a demographics issue that can't exactly be blamed on CCP.
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Ulmon Aulen
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Posted - 2011.06.26 00:02:00 -
[38]
This situation would have been diffused if CCP said the following
"We will NOT be expanding MT beyond vanity items."
They obviously know that this is what players want to hear, and by not doing so raises some concerns.
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Drifnir
Mnemonic Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.06.26 00:17:00 -
[39]
This is no mere game...this is EVE!
CCP should feel lucky they've got a playerbase this passionate about their product. The outrage we've felt over the last few days is far preferable to apathy.
If i didn't care about Eve, i would not be here, trying like hell to make CCP see that tehy're acting like what they've always said they're not: the monolithic corporate giant, trampling all voices of dissent underfoot.
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spackles Ibsol
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Posted - 2011.06.26 00:20:00 -
[40]
Whats really pathetic is how CCP tried to censer peoples opinions. They banned a few, deleted many posts an threads. Not to mention most of the people "protesting" are just doing it for giggles. they dont care about whats happening an will continue to play an probably buy their free sp chars an all the shinys they can afford. No doubt that CCP are on par with SOE now. Their arrogance towards us an their contempt show us just what they see us as.
I am sad that I wasted 6 years on this game, if I new CCP were this arrogant I would quit years ago.
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Marduk Nibiru
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Posted - 2011.06.26 00:20:00 -
[41]
I think that some perspective needs to be applied here to understand those supposedly taking this out of perspective. Yeah, EvE is just a game. However, it's a game that requires rather large investment in time and resources. It's built and designed to get its players involved as deeply as can possibly be done. Unlike other MMOs, the changes in EvE are permanent and thus the history is player created and *interesting*.
Though those only sticking to hisec may not notice, the history of EvE involves the rise and fall of nothing short of dynasties that where completely player created, motivated, and eventually destroyed. Go out in 0.0 and you run into things like the first ever player built outposts which remain today though the people who made them are somewhere else due to territory losses. This kind of play warrants and requires a level of involvement you simply don't have in console games or even most other MMOs.
CCP plays on this distinction with almost every trailer and advertizement they make. "Come be a part of something," is what they tell people. People indeed come and become a part of something. That means investment, both emotional and monetary. This, imho, deserves some amount of respect on behalf of CCP and I for one am noticing less and less of that. The dev-blog responses to the community have seemed to me to lack any kind of respect for what we, as players, add to the game.
The changes that seem to be happening of late, and with that leaked memo the direction the devs apparently want to go with the game, so severely alter the game that it makes the years of player investment seem completely wasted. This is of course an emotional response since that time invested payed for itself while it lasted. It's sad to see a good game fall, but entropy is universal.
So, while I agree that some people may need to gain some perspective on this, I completely understand the disappointment and share it. I understand the rage as well for though I'm not as bothered by some at the kind of things going on in the game, and am willing to wait to see if pay-to-win items become standard, the response by CCP has made me question whether I want to give this company my money anymore.
The source of all legend |
Grom Starscream
Gallente
Whistle While You Warp
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Posted - 2011.06.26 00:22:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Miz Chief
And what seems to be being forgotten is the leaked newsletter was a discussion piece, not a definitive list of the next feature set.
Some things might well come to pass. But I bet some won't.
What you seem to be forgetting is that last November they said they would never be selling anything that directly impacts actual gameplay in the store. So why were they "debating" it six months later? There's a lie there somewhere.
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Thodol
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Posted - 2011.06.26 00:22:00 -
[43]
Give CCP a break after they have made a dozen PR disasters in the same week? I believe there should be a CCP internal investigation into how many employees are in fact mentally ******ed.
Lets ignore the moral and ethical issues involved in their bold faced ignoring and lies about the direction they fully intend to take EVE. The incompetence demonstrated in the handling of this situation is almost as revolting.
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Tappits
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.06.26 00:26:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Miz Chief
I understand that some people take this game seriously, and they're getting concerned about the direction it might be taking, but the abuse I'm reading is beyond words.
If you don't like the way the game company runs the game, just leave. Hurling abuse, insults and even threats at the very people who you rely on to give you the entertainment you wish to participate in is just stupid.
And if you take this GAME so seriously that it's got you this upset, perhaps you need to re-address your life's priorities a little.
chill out Herpaderpa alt who no one cears about.
People might be a little mad in something they have invested many years and many thousands of dollars/pounds/euros/whatever in to, and then see it crash at the hands of incompetent fools that at one time also loved the game but now just seem to love money.
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I fail At forums
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ |
Hwicce
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.26 00:36:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Miz Chief
I understand that some people take this game seriously, and they're getting concerned about the direction it might be taking, but the abuse I'm reading is beyond words.
If you don't like the way the game company runs the game, just leave. Hurling abuse, insults and even threats at the very people who you rely on to give you the entertainment you wish to participate in is just stupid.
And if you take this GAME so seriously that it's got you this upset, perhaps you need to re-address your life's priorities a little.
Do these people who have invested a lot of time into this game deserve any input? Or are you just concerned about your own sensibilities?
Tolerance is a stepping stone towards understanding, if you cannot tolerate them then why tolerate you?
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2011.06.26 00:39:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Miz Chief
I said give the devs a break.
Still, there's no justification for such abuse at all really, but especially not against individuals.
Mob mentality. Ain't nothin you could about it. And when you catch the spotlight you either shine or burn. There's no inbetween.
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BlackSunMiner
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Posted - 2011.06.26 00:51:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Miz Chief
I understand that some people take this game seriously, and they're getting concerned about the direction it might be taking, but the abuse I'm reading is beyond words.
If you don't like the way the game company runs the game, just leave. Hurling abuse, insults and even threats at the very people who you rely on to give you the entertainment you wish to participate in is just stupid.
And if you take this GAME so seriously that it's got you this upset, perhaps you need to re-address your life's priorities a little.
Dev Alt
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zombu2
Caldari
Evolution
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 00:53:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Miz Chief
I understand that some people take this game seriously, and they're getting concerned about the direction it might be taking, but the abuse I'm reading is beyond words.
If you don't like the way the game company runs the game, just leave. Hurling abuse, insults and even threats at the very people who you rely on to give you the entertainment you wish to participate in is just stupid.
And if you take this GAME so seriously that it's got you this upset, perhaps you need to re-address your life's priorities a little.
Hey You are the one stating we should break some devs........
Please re-size your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Gallinari
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Posted - 2011.06.26 00:54:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Lykouleon
You must be new and not have any understanding about how emotionally tied into the game most of the player base is.
For some of us, this week has been like getting kicked in the groin by our best friend repeatedly for no reason and with no sign of an apology.
Comparing EVE Online to your best friend?
Yikes, its a lot worse than I thought.
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ExcalibursTemplar
Caldari
Citadel Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.06.26 11:03:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Henrica Gaufridus
Originally by: ExcalibursTemplar
Edited by: ExcalibursTemplar on 25/06/2011 23:23:14
Originally by: Lykouleon
You must be new and not have any understanding about how emotionally tied into the game most of the player base is.
For some of us, this week has been like getting kicked in the groin by our best friend repeatedly for no reason and with no sign of an apology.
^This
To use CCP golfing analogy, I'm a member of a golf club its my hobbie its my passion. The owners of the golf club having decided that myself and my friends are not earning them enough money decided to rip up the green and build a kiddies theme park. My friends and myself have naturally gone ape **** about it as the golf course is our home away from home a place we go to get away from real life bull****. So naturaly we do everything we can in our power to stop the greedy golf course owners from f#cking us over.
No, if you're going to use a golfing analogy:
We have a course we love to play at. We pay a monthly membership fee at this golf club. Well, they started this new program where you can pay more money, and the golf club gives you a billyclub and the right to break someone's kneecaps if you're playing against them.
PMSL i stand corrected.
About these protest CCP
Quote:
Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.
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Marchocias
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Posted - 2011.06.26 11:12:00 -
[51]
They said they were introducing MT last year.
We totally sodding beasted them.
Then they said they would do vanity items only.
THEN WE GAVE THEM A BREAK...
They appear to have decided to break their promise, so why shouldn't we beast them ten times as hard as we did last year? They don't appear to have taken the message on board properly, and WE DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER COURSE OF ACTION OPEN, OTHER THAN BEING AS LOUD AS WE POSSIBLY CAN.
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Will 2011-06-24 go down as the day CCP stood still, or the day the dream died? |
Kuronaga
Kantian Principle
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Posted - 2011.06.26 11:14:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Miz Chief
I understand that some people take this game seriously, and they're getting concerned about the direction it might be taking, but the abuse I'm reading is beyond words.
If you don't like the way the game company runs the game, just leave. Hurling abuse, insults and even threats at the very people who you rely on to give you the entertainment you wish to participate in is just stupid.
And if you take this GAME so seriously that it's got you this upset, perhaps you need to re-address your life's priorities a little.
If what you're reading on an internet spaceship forum has you this distraught, maybe you need to re-address your life's priorities a little.
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Katra Novac
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Posted - 2011.06.26 11:25:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Marchocias
WE DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER COURSE OF ACTION OPEN, OTHER THAN BEING AS LOUD AS WE POSSIBLY CAN.
Yeah, CCPs handling of the crisis means what I'm quoting is true.
The idea that by letting anger fizzle out before trying to negotiate does not work, all it does is make people less amenable to anything they say. After all they increased peoples anger then just left them to get on with it, they should be apologising for that too.
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