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Kell Tarhun
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
18
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Posted - 2012.09.15 07:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Well i would like to start this topic and share my point of view on some facts.
Some facts we all see in game:
1) CCP decided to pull investigations about bots running Eve to players by making "report bot" button. Since that time all they do is investigation of reports of those who pushed that button no matter if they are correct or not. Imagine yourself checking 9000 reports every day. Would u have time to actually solve the problem?
What are consequences?
1) CCP is bussy checking thousands of false reports while true bots make billions of isk ruining our game experience
2) CCP made player base responsible of moderation bot issue. Lets be honest i have seen just 1 of 100 times situation when player "reported" another players as bot. In other way we all pay isk or buy from legal sources plexes to continue playing Eve Online to become moderators and get our game experience about Eve Online to do what CCP should do instead of US
3) You can find bot in every system of Eve Online universe. There is minimum 1 bot in every system 24h per day. In most systems - more than 20 ( suggest travel to deep 0.0 areas - it is not accident that every 0.0 alliance fight in border of low sec to prevent players appear in their territories)
4) I see increased amount of bot/RMT activity in all Eve Universe
5) i see decreased amount of players in Eve Universe who see current effort (no effort?) CCP of fight against bots in Eve Universe
All those are FACTS.
Question to player base and CCP. 1 How you see situation with bots on your own? 2 Is there going to be any change in current CCP policy against bots. 3 Do you personally care that most boting players got endless amount of isk and they do not care to loose ships while you got problems to get isk for anything. 4 How long alliances will be allowed to get isk from bot activity for " ship reimbursement" programs? Considering all current 0.0 alliances are doing this (tip.: it is just a matter of hiding and "washing" isk gained by bots for example: renting, solo kills of ibis with 200 plexes, lotteries and way more) 5 is Eve becoming better or worse in your eyes?
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1740
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Posted - 2012.09.15 07:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
010110101010101111010010111000101101001101100110111010000110101101011110 |
Paul Oliver
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2402
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Posted - 2012.09.15 07:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
If the nullsec alliances are really funding their empires using automated bot programs I wish I could use those same tools to farm isk and make pvp as painless for me as it is for them. It doesn't seem right that they have access to billions in resources which apparently they farm via hundreds of players and automated programs while people like me have to grind our asses off just to make a pittance. Then to top it all off they lobby for changes to highsec in order to make it even less profitable in order to force even more players into their part of the sandbox to farm even more isk for them.
I've heard many a person on here chant the mantra "risk vs reward", and yet it seems that many of the people saying this are making huge amounts of isk with little to no risk, while people like me are expected to take relatively high amounts of risk for only minimal rewards, which is almost ironic considering that they claim highsec players aren't taking enough risk, when their vast wealth and resources ensure hardly any risk. "Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must undergo the fatigues of supporting it." - Thomas Paine |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1306
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Posted - 2012.09.15 07:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
A fact can be false...
1) no they still do investigations based on petitions and emails just like the good old days.
1 again) only if they actually check every one personally, rather than having them filtered through a program of some sort.
2) no they didn't. We have always been responsible for reporting what we have seen and suspect, so nothing has changed except we now have an easier tool, one that I must add we as a player base asked for.
3) wrong. There are hundreds of empty systems, so no bots there.
4) really... you have some special ability? You should work for the CIA then to detect spies. You'd be just as good as they are.
5) This is not a fact, rather a subjective (ie opinion) observation.
So, not only were you wrong most of the time, all of those weren't facts... |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
1208
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Posted - 2012.09.15 07:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
Paul Oliver wrote:If the nullsec alliances are really funding their empires using automated bot programs I wish I could use those same tools to farm isk and make pvp as painless for me as it is for them. It doesn't seem right that they have access to billions in resources which apparently they farm via hundreds of players and automated programs while people like me have to grind our asses off just to make a pittance. Then to top it all off they lobby for changes to highsec in order to make it even less profitable in order to force even more players into their part of the sandbox to farm even more isk for them.
I've heard many a person on here chant the mantra "risk vs reward", and yet it seems that many of the people saying this are making huge amounts of isk with little to no risk, while people like me are expected to take relatively high amounts of risk for only minimal rewards, which is almost ironic considering that they claim highsec players aren't taking enough risk, when their vast wealth and resources ensure hardly any risk for them.
Hisec is full of missioning bots, because L4s make so much ISK.
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1753
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Posted - 2012.09.15 07:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
According to CCP security at Fanfest 2012, The Forge alone had more bots then all of nullsec put together Spots #2 all the way to #12 were all highsec regions as well.
hth |
Paul Oliver
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2405
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Posted - 2012.09.15 07:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
Roime wrote:Hisec is full of missioning bots, because L4s make so much ISK. Which I was under the impression people were banned for using.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must undergo the fatigues of supporting it." - Thomas Paine |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
1209
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Posted - 2012.09.15 07:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
And then a new one appears.
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1755
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Posted - 2012.09.15 07:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
Quote:And I would wager my implants a fair chunk of those bots are nullsec alts, farming highsec because they don't want to use too many bots in their own backyard and draw attention to themselves. No that's stupid, try again. |
Pipa Porto
938
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Posted - 2012.09.15 08:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
Paul Oliver wrote:Roime wrote:Hisec is full of missioning bots, because L4s make so much ISK. Which I was under the impression people were banned for using. Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:According to CCP security at Fanfest 2012, The Forge alone had more bots then all of nullsec put together Spots #2 all the way to #12 were all highsec regions as well. And I would wager my implants a fair chunk of those bots are nullsec alts, farming highsec because they don't want to use too many bots in their own backyard and draw attention to themselves.
Shown proof that the majority of Bots are not in Nullsec: Doubles down, claiming that bots not in Nullsec are from nullsec.
Got any evidence of any such connection there, sparky? EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
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Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
167
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Posted - 2012.09.15 08:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kell Tarhun wrote: All those are FACTS.
Ohhhhh that's a rookie mistake. Thanks for playing though. |
Paul Oliver
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2417
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Posted - 2012.09.15 08:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
If I did CCP would be the first to know and you would probably be one of the last. Be that as it may my original point stands, it's not fair that new players like myself have to work so hard and take proportionately higher risks for less rewards than players in large nullsec alliances who according to the OP are using tools apparently outlawed by CCP to amass great fortunes and all but remove risk on their end. "Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must undergo the fatigues of supporting it." - Thomas Paine |
Silence iKillYouu
KA POW POW Inc Late Night Alliance
199
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Posted - 2012.09.15 08:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
u idiot http://fw-frontline.blogspot.com/ |
Pipa Porto
938
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Posted - 2012.09.15 08:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
Paul Oliver wrote:If I did CCP would be the first to know and you would probably be one of the last. Be that as it may my original point stands, it's not fair that new players like myself have to work so hard and take proportionately higher risks for less rewards than players in large nullsec alliances who according to the OP are using tools apparently outlawed by CCP to amass great fortunes and all but remove risk on their end.
Do you have any evidence to suggest said nullsec bot use? Did you see the OP present any evidence of nullsec bot use?
CCP has said that, last time they did a big bot sweep, the Forge had the highest number of bots, followed by 11 other HS regions, while all of Nullsec had fewer bots than the Forge did.
Did you ever consider the possibility that the OP might be wrong? EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Kell Tarhun
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
19
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Posted - 2012.09.15 08:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
There was a little but of heat about high sec lvl 4 bots. There is plenty of more bot types that haven't been discussed yet.
Well here is example of one using bot script to those who do not know how ships that use them may look like and where they are.
Character: fishwe lost Raven in Piak (0.7) Date:2012-09-03 17:39:00 Date:2012-09-03 17:39:00 Yes u need to put effort to find this killmail - i bet it is not hard. I personally do not like linking in forums
I bet you do not have to be in CIA to find bots in Eve Online. Why CCP got so many problems to find and eliminate them |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1757
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Posted - 2012.09.15 08:30:00 -
[16] - Quote
Paul Oliver wrote:If I did CCP would be the first to know and you would probably be one of the last. Be that as it may my original point stands http://d35dgn2pdc8wsn.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/01.jpg |
Paul Oliver
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2417
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Posted - 2012.09.15 08:39:00 -
[17] - Quote
That graph only shows where the bots are being used, not who is operating the bots. "Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must undergo the fatigues of supporting it." - Thomas Paine |
Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
1521
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Posted - 2012.09.15 08:49:00 -
[18] - Quote
Kell Tarhun wrote:Well i would like to start this topic and share my point of view on some facts.
Some facts we all see in game:
1) CCP decided to pull investigations about bots running Eve to players by making "report bot" button. Since that time all they do is investigation of reports of those who pushed that button no matter if they are correct or not. Imagine yourself checking 9000 reports every day. Would u have time to actually solve the problem?
What are consequences?
1) CCP is bussy checking thousands of false reports while true bots make billions of isk ruining our game experience
2) CCP made player base responsible of moderation bot issue. Lets be honest i have seen just 1 of 100 times situation when player "reported" another players as bot. In other way we all pay isk or buy from legal sources plexes to continue playing Eve Online to become moderators and get our game experience about Eve Online to do what CCP should do instead of US
3) You can find bot in every system of Eve Online universe. There is minimum 1 bot in every system 24h per day. In most systems - more than 20 ( suggest travel to deep 0.0 areas - it is not accident that every 0.0 alliance fight in border of low sec to prevent players appear in their territories)
4) I see increased amount of bot/RMT activity in all Eve Universe
5) i see decreased amount of players in Eve Universe who see current effort (no effort?) CCP of fight against bots in Eve Universe
All those are FACTS.
You seem to have confused yourself between FACTS and OPINIONS.
- You have spies planted inside CCP offices? how did you know what are the exact methods they're using?
- No one is forcing you to post a report, it's a choice. CCP is not a bunch of wizards and mindreaders, hardware and software have their limits, the report feature is one way to fill the hole.
- First; there are empty systems, always. Second; "we" don't fight in lowsec borders, if we do, it's not because we want to prevent people from entering and reporting bots. Third; Have you ever been to nullsec? seriously? there are always, always people wandering around in null, there is no way to completely quarantine a pocket/zone in nullsec that nobody else can enter 23/7, be it corpmates, friendles, neutrals, enemies or just some random dude.
- Oh really? you have suddenly developed a sixth sense from your days of observation of Eve bots? How would you know? seeing something, over and over again (assuming it's really a bot), does not mean it increases in numbers. I don't think even CCP knows about the exact numbers or whether they actually increase in numbers or not, heck I don't even think anyone knows.
- This is a highly biased opinion. Also, once again; stating something as facts doesnt mean they are.
Kell Tarhun wrote: Question to player base and CCP. 1 How you see situation with bots on your own? 2 Is there going to be any change in current CCP policy against bots. 3 Do you personally care that most boting players got endless amount of isk and they do not care to loose ships while you got problems to get isk for anything. 4 How long alliances will be allowed to get isk from bot activity for " ship reimbursement" programs? Considering all current 0.0 alliances are doing this (tip.: it is just a matter of hiding and "washing" isk gained by bots for example: renting, solo kills of ibis with 200 plexes, lotteries and way more) 5 is Eve becoming better or worse in your eyes?
- I believe CCP is handling the situation, however they want to handle it.
- -
- Yes and no. I'd probably gonna be quite pissed to see people playing with bots, I've seen MMOs go down in flames because of the devs incompetency of handling them. Then again, it's up to the devs and I still believe CCP is doing the best they can. For the second part, a lot of people I know don't really care about losing subcap ships, even expensive ones, even I don't care, to an extent.
- You are speculating about the "all aliances" part and making generalization that alliances = players/members of an alliance and how naive to think that members of an alliance won't report their own when they found a botter. Players are players, whether they live in null, low or hisec. You also seems to forget that alot if not most of the people who actually care about Eve and it's future, lives in nullsec.
- No.
"I think weGÇÖre just getting closer and closer to a place where the people we lose are people that itGÇÖs okay to lose." -Kristoffer Touborg, Eve lead designer |
unloadedx16
Platanos for Everybody
0
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Posted - 2012.09.15 09:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
Everything you said you just pulled out of your ass. CCP hates botters just as much as we do. CCP are not mind readers and they are continually working on the bot issue. |
Shirley Serious
The Khanid Sisters of Athra
17
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Posted - 2012.09.15 09:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
Interesting picture. Did they mention what kind of bots they found? mining/icemining/ratting/others ? |
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Jonah Gravenstein
1218
|
Posted - 2012.09.15 09:37:00 -
[21] - Quote
Probably mining and market bots in hisec. CCP can't patch stupid. |
Kell Tarhun
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
20
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Posted - 2012.09.15 09:37:00 -
[22] - Quote
unloadedx16 wrote:Everything you said you just pulled out of your ass. CCP hates botters just as much as we do. CCP are not mind readers and they are continually working on the bot issue.
unloadedx16 wrote:Everything you said you just pulled out of your ass. CCP hates botters just as much as we do. CCP are not mind readers and they are continually working on the bot issue.
Not good enough. I am not satisfied with CCP activity in boting matter. Want some true action from them not just empty promises.
Besides bot owners play this game and they influence me and my actions by way they getting isk. If you know some guy is reporting bots and you are running bot environment alliance - you will do everything to make sure he is as far from you as possible.
I would like to focus on other aspect of game, however bot aspect destroy them all - considering Eve is Sandbox.
For example: Imagine my alliance runs bot network and found all ships lost every mount from bots arround 300bil isk (having it washed), Imagine your alliance doing same but you got no idea about it. Imagine you pay for ship lost in fight in Jita from bot owner who wash isk Imagine bot owner produces items and ships Imagine you get reimbursement from lost ship from boting alliance Imagine corporations paying isk for rent from ISK farming bots Imagine bots running lvl 4 missions in highsec Imagine bots mining everywhere. imagine all alliances doing RMT bot network Imagine players do not afraid to loose their supers as they use bots
Is this just imagination or real to many of us. For me it is real in many places of Eve Online. For me it is important what CCP actually plan to do with all that. As at the moment as i observe such activity everywhere arround i see no sense in most of actions current Eve got to offer. |
Sugar Kyle
The humbleless Crew Capital Punishment.
96
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Posted - 2012.09.15 11:34:00 -
[23] - Quote
I am interested to learn more about this invis bot that occupies systems with me when I am the only one in local. Will it gank me? PvP bots? Tilde soaked words from something kinda like a pirate. |
Alice Saki
6341
|
Posted - 2012.09.15 12:12:00 -
[24] - Quote
Pleasure Model 00213 Reporting.
Oops
Error #123 Wrong Bot request Scottish Interweb Spaceshippy Person, Very Easily Confused. I like to show my Love by Smashing people in the face with a big Hammer.
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Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
173
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Posted - 2012.09.15 12:23:00 -
[25] - Quote
Paul Oliver wrote:If I did CCP would be the first to know and you would probably be one of the last. Be that as it may my original point stands, it's not fair that new players like myself have to grind more and take proportionately higher risks for less rewards than players in large nullsec alliances who according to the OP are using tools apparently outlawed by CCP to amass vast fortunes and all but remove risk on their end.
The problem here is that you are believing the OP, who basically wrong in everything he said. Botting is definately on a downward trend (though changes can be quick). The biggest bot groups are people doing it for RMT. After that its people who can't make enough isk, and they can be from anywhere. Large null sec alliances already have masses of isk (lol tech) so are probably the least likely to resort to botting unless they are doing it for RMT (you know who they are), in which case its leaving you as a "new player" at no competitive disadvantage to them but rather to the people buying isk through rmt. Players in null also tend to be playes who have invested the most time and money in the game and so have most to lose from getting banned, so again are less likely to be using bots on average.
Of course i have no more FACTS than the op does but at least what i say follows some sort of logic
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Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
173
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Posted - 2012.09.15 12:24:00 -
[26] - Quote
Plus he is in -A- which says it all really |
Kell Tarhun
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
21
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Posted - 2012.09.15 12:28:00 -
[27] - Quote
Doddy wrote:Plus he is in -A- which says it all really
Well check my history :> I am in your alliance as well. i switch whenever i wan't to. Besides your alliance using bots in XZH-4X for example.
So....hmm looks like you just do not know about it. I find it normal as many players do not want to to have Eyes wide open. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
909
|
Posted - 2012.09.15 12:38:00 -
[28] - Quote
I've been botting for over eight years now.
It's the only way to satisfy my addiction to this terrible game without having to actually play it. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
728
|
Posted - 2012.09.15 12:39:00 -
[29] - Quote
I know some guy with a toon named CCP Shreegs that must be smiling with this thread. Even I do. brb |
Kell Tarhun
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
21
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Posted - 2012.09.15 12:48:00 -
[30] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:I know some guy with a toon named CCP Shreegs that must be smiling with this thread. Even I do.
Pretty sure CCP Sreegs' head exploded when my last thread was posted. |
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