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Why is Eve such a personal game?

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Javajunky	Posted - 2011.06.27 12:15:00 - [1] Why is it so personal? I see these people telling the Sr. player base to calm down, they are obviously new to the game. Although IÆve only been playing for a little more than a year and a half, IÆm relatively new to the game in terms to the age of many players. But I side with the Sr. Players. Do Eve players take the game more personally than players in other MMOÆs? Absolutely! Is there a driving reason behind this? Absolutely! Unlike other games that stuff a bunch of content you play the game you get bored and you walk away. Each day of playing Eve is more of a personal investment in a hobby. Where most MMOÆs you can grind out a character and level up and start playing the hardcore content, in Eve the only way you access that content is time. Time to skill is a very personal component of the game, hard to grasp by some but once youÆre 30M SPÆs and flying your first carrier, you really start appreciating / wanting to protect your personal investments. Unlike other games, when you lose something here you lost it, mistakes or being outplayed are permanent. You ever lost you faction fit bs ratting because you werenÆt paying attention to local, couldnÆt get back to your wormhole because you screwed up, go scammed in a trade hub or robbed by a corp mate you trusted? All of these elements make the experience of playing eve very personal, itÆs a very human experience. For those of you who donÆt really understand, I posit you havenÆt really gotten to the point where youÆve said you feel vested in your game, I posit you havenÆt developed a loyalty to the game, havenÆt felt accomplished in what you achieved in the game. The people have every right to be **ed, personally I feel IÆm in the same boat as 7 account player. The developers have jeopardized that subscriber loyalty even more to the point, the stuff thatÆs been leaked demonstrates a good bit of arrogance on behalf of a Developer. The Developers believe Eve is going to be an easy game to attact new players with fluffy stuff but when they undock itÆs still going to be a *** to play, morons or average MMO players will go back to other MMOÆs. Most MMO players aren't intersted in running complicated spreadsheets with embedded functions and macro's to figure out how to make money selling stuff. Most of them can't even use spreadsheets. CCP needs to realize weÆre not the average IQ of other MMO players and they need to lose the arrogance and treat the Sr. Players like valued customer. As most of the Sr. Players are multi-boxers, weÆre smart enough to realize weÆre funding your other game development, since we do take treat the game as a personally investment (even as a hobby), weÆre happy to walk away from the investment and take away funding from your other MMOÆs if youÆre going to ignore us. Basically CCP underestimates the integrity and intelligence of the players in the Eve demographic. Will Java be posting a -7 this week? Well I'm watching with a keen eye what CCP does next. I want a response, I want to see the Sr. Players treated as real valued customers.
Alliria Seedspawn	Posted - 2011.06.27 12:17:00 - [2] Emotional investment. Feeling plotted on by your favorite and dearest.
Tegrah	Posted - 2011.06.27 12:20:00 - [3] Well said
Hapaks	Posted - 2011.06.27 12:21:00 - [4] HOLY WORDS ... but in iceland who care? they dream 10 million teenagers on a trendy dark vampire mmo... we are ****ed, but we aren't going away unoticed
Hekira Soikutsu	Posted - 2011.06.27 12:26:00 - [5] I like. A great number of highsec bears buy their characters with credit-to-plex-to-isk via the bazaar. They lack the long term investment of time to the game so they cannot comprehend the rage.
Jude Lloyd	Posted - 2011.06.27 12:30:00 - [6] Originally by: Tegrah Well said
Irideus	Posted - 2011.06.27 12:39:00 - [7] ^^ OP well said
Alpine 69 Rubbish Superheroes	Posted - 2011.06.27 12:43:00 - [8] /Signed. Will write and sing songs for stuff.
Narisa Bithon Caldari The Motley Crew Reborn	Posted - 2011.06.27 12:45:00 - [9] imagine if u played this game since 2003 @ Ç14.95 x 12 months x 8 years = Ç1435.20 invested per account now imagine if a 3 day old toon invests the same amount of money to turn a 3 day old noob toon into an 8 year old vet toon sp wise.... wouldnt you be pee'd off too? MT for advantage is like using cheat codes - it ruins the gaming experience for everyone else who worked long and hard to get where they are. MT also makes industry pointless thus miners who already earn a pittance will be even more worse off. -1 mining alt for pretty much everyone that has one. ccp will lose alot of subs because of that. why pay for an industry alt when MT for advantage makes it null and void anyways. if you ever played counterstrike.... people using aimbots or running cheats ruined it for all the genuine players.
Dopesick Minmatar The Dream is Dead	Posted - 2011.06.27 12:47:00 - [10] /signed Seriously, most all of us 7-8 year vets (and even newer concerned players) want is a definitive answer to one question; Is CCP going to introduce pay-to-win MT's into Eve Online or not?

Gloria Stitz	Posted - 2011.06.27 12:51:00 - [11] Nice post. Sinking feeling in the stomach is my reaction to the new CCP. The CSM meeting will not be a u-turn, or they would have done that already. Time to walk away I think ------------- 'Don't try to learn Eve all at once, otherwise your brain will explode' - Albert Einstein ------------
Mikal Morataya	Posted - 2011.06.27 12:55:00 - [12] Great post OP! Having only been in the game 10 months (I only thought it was 8, time flies!) I can see why MT for game changers would ruin this game. I am not convinced CCP will change its course on this but I hope they do. The reason I play Eve and not ant other tin pot MMO is purely because of the game it is. Please don't break it CCP. Improve sure, expand and innovate but please don't make it lose its uniqueness.
stilz	Posted - 2011.06.27 13:59:00 - [13] I've been playing EvE on/off with 3 accounts for over 7 years. Being forced to stare at a door and lose some convenient station functionality does not sit well with me =( I'm sure that I'm not alone when I say I've often used the old hanger view as a 'think' cap. This is when I would load up different ships and toy with the view while watching local/corp/pm chat and decide on what the days adventure will be. This struck me as odd because I never really gave any thought into it. I guess you really don't know what you have until it's gone. I'm using a Rubik's cube now, but it just isn't the same. Does this recent change affect me personally? Yes, and not in a good way it seems =( -Stilz
Mars Theran Caldari EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.27 14:03:00 - [14] Economic investment more likely. It has nothing to do with older players loving EVE or having an emotional attachement to their characters, though they indeed may, and more to do with the time they have spent developing the market in game. We're talking about people who have highly researched BPOs, original Tech II BPOs, massive piles of ISK, and general market dominance, facing a situation where those things suddenly approach a point where their value is unknown.
Irideus	Posted - 2011.06.27 14:48:00 - [15] Originally by: Mars Theran Economic investment more likely. It has nothing to do with older players loving EVE or having an emotional attachement to their characters, though they indeed may, and more to do with the time they have spent developing the market in game. We're talking about people who have highly researched BPOs, original Tech II BPOs, massive piles of ISK, and general market dominance, facing a situation where those things suddenly approach a point where their value is unknown. There is logic and truth in what you say, but I donÆt think this story stops thereà I am sure these things are is on the minds of those who have acquired these things over time (and subsequently have used them to excavate their own corner of the EvE universe) but I think the more important part which is just a true for them as it is for any player that these things do exist they can be found / researched / used / bought / traded. Though unlikely, anyone could potentially find themselves in their position should events line up that way by their actions / luck or whatever. I think hope and aspiration are as much a part of the game as statistics, strategy and economics. If things do go the way people fear then the proverbial feet are kicked form under these hopes and dreams (because they can be by-passed by players with deeper pockets) a big motivating factor that fuels the long term desire to play is lost for ever.
Tobias Sjodin Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2011.06.27 14:51:00 - [16] Originally by: Javajunky Why is it so personal? I see these people telling the Sr. player base to calm down, they are obviously new to the game. I'm one of those who tell people to calm down. A lot of my in-game spaceship friends do too. And none of us are "new to this game". So your hypothesis/baseless speculation ended there. HABIT
Joe Skellington Minmatar Caldari Elite Force Apocalypse Now.	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:00:00 - [17] Edited by: Joe Skellington on 27/06/2011 15:01:18 I feel the same way as the OP. --
Kristina Vanszar Caldari	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:01:00 - [18] I had a tear in my eye..
Durethia Blackwater USA Inc. Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:04:00 - [19] /Signed
Boaz Hedion Merkava	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:07:00 - [20] I want everyone's sig and bio to contain this important quote: I side with the Senior Players!!! that'll teach those nubs who complain about this player standup in the forums while still playing on trial accounts.

Dale Sams	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:11:00 - [21] Edited by: Dale Sams on 27/06/2011 15:11:33 Quote: CCP needs to realize weÆre not the average IQ of other MMO players Don't take this the wrong way, cause I really like your post, but while the sheer IQ may be greater, the maturity level is the same if not worse with the whole "We're better than (fillintheblank)", "Go back to Ducky MoMo Online" "CAREBEAR!!!"
Tobiaz Spacerats	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:14:00 - [22] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Originally by: Javajunky Why is it so personal? I see these people telling the Sr. player base to calm down, they are obviously new to the game. I'm one of those who tell people to calm down. A lot of my in-game spaceship friends do too. And none of us are "new to this game". So your hypothesis/baseless speculation ended there. Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Originally by: Javajunky Why is it so personal? I see these people telling the Sr. player base to calm down, they are obviously new to the game. I'm one of those who tell people to calm down. A lot of my in-game spaceship friends do too. And none of us are "new to this game". So your hypothesis/baseless speculation ended there. And you, together with an undefined number of other vet players form such an authority that it completely invalidates the observation that there are by far more non-alt posts from newbies on the forum telling people to stop protesting then there are from older players? I agree though, there are veterans saying that there's nothing to worry about, you are one of them, incessantly. But I dare to say you ARE a minority and in both ways. + 1500 votes on MT in EVE \| NO 79.03% \| YES 5.02% \| COSMETIC ONLY 11.23% \| OTHER 4.73%
Tobias Sjodin Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2011.06.28 01:44:00 - [23] Originally by: Tobiaz But I dare to say you ARE a minority and in both ways. You "dare to say"? As if that requires guts, skill or anything else? You get around 2000 dudes who are leaving the game, X of those being "veterans" and you still claim the majority of all vets are leaving based on that? You, Sir are lying to yourself, probably to validate your own thought process. But I'll se a month or so down the road if "the majority" of all veterans have left the game. There's a lot of them in PL, should be a crippling blow to us then if "the majority" are leaving. HABIT
Zakua Corbin	Posted - 2011.06.28 01:49:00 - [24] OP, good stuff man!
Mr Epeen	Posted - 2011.06.28 01:58:00 - [25] Originally by: Narisa Bithon imagine if u played this game since 2003 @ Ç14.95 x 12 months x 8 years = Ç1435.20 invested per account I could imagine someone so stupid. So lacking in basic math I.Q. So completely moronic as to be in this game more than six months and still be paying cash to play. But it would be a stretch of the imagination to do so. Please tell me you haven't spent 7+ years actually paying cash for your subs. Mr Epeen
Venko Trenulo Spelunkers	Posted - 2011.06.28 02:24:00 - [26] Well said, OP. I'd add that many vets may be more respected, successful and productive in-game than in RL, which in itself makes this a more comfortable place to live than 'Out There,' so that when 'In Here' is threatened, a good chunk of our self-image is also threatened. I sometimes wonder how much of the world we'd control if we studied, planned, spreadsheeted and worked at it as vigorously and single-mindedly as we do EVE.
Madcapnl The Rising Stars -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2011.06.28 13:44:00 - [27] Nice post OP. That pretty much sums it up. Originally by: Venko Trenulo Well said, OP. I'd add that many vets may be more respected, successful and productive in-game than in RL, which in itself makes this a more comfortable place to live than 'Out There,' so that when 'In Here' is threatened, a good chunk of our self-image is also threatened. I sometimes wonder how much of the world we'd control if we studied, planned, spreadsheeted and worked at it as vigorously and single-mindedly as we do EVE. Lol, I use stuff I learned in Eve in real life as much as I use stuff I learned in real life in Eve. The way alliances and coalitions are managed is just sheer awesomeness, if you realise that unlike real life, the `bosses¦ in Eve can not force the grunts to do anything. There is a big lesson to be learned there for bosses in real life. Also using spreadsheets in Eve to a degree that it has become very valuable to me in my business life.
Tosser Galore	Posted - 2011.06.28 13:51:00 - [28] People are persons. Person are on the interwebs, stuff gets personal. Credit card gets swiped. $hit happens.
Lyrrashae Minmatar Crushed Ambitions	Posted - 2011.06.28 14:13:00 - [29] +1 for OP.
Nikk Narrel Infinite Improbability Inc -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2011.06.28 14:15:00 - [30] Originally by: Dale Sams Edited by: Dale Sams on 27/06/2011 15:11:33 Quote: CCP needs to realize weÆre not the average IQ of other MMO players Don't take this the wrong way, cause I really like your post, but while the sheer IQ may be greater, the maturity level is the same if not worse with the whole "We're better than (fillintheblank)", "Go back to Ducky MoMo Online" "CAREBEAR!!!" Actually, that is amazingly civil. Almost the kind of attitude one expects to see at a sporting event, (one that has not degenerated into newsworthy chaos at least). It simply reflects a competitive spirit, and does not come close to reflecting some of the mind bending garbage I have seen elsewhere. For reference, simply visit a well known fantasy MMO. There is a zone with a notorious crossroads in it. Each of their servers has a similar environment in this area, oddly enough. On a good day, you get Chuck Norris jokes. On a bad day, trash talking, personal insults, and the basest examples of human behavior can be found here. I have never seen eve degenerate into this type of behavior on a regular basis. That does make us different. Higher average IQ, maybe... but certainly more mature at the very least.



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I side with the Senior Players!!!