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[@CCP] Why not increased SUB, but MT?

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Kunming Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E	Posted - 2011.06.27 14:42:00 - [1] No one denies the fact that CCP is a company and their primary purpose is to make money. If they ruin EVE online its their RIGHT to do so, no one denies that this is their right and responsibility alone. Now comes the obvious title question: CCP could have increased the SUB price a notch claimed that the world currencies are all dropping in value (due to them being growth dependant economies in a world of peak oil crisis) so the need to increase SUB to overcome the inflation of paper currency, besides "we give you free expension" and "the game has evolved alot (content wise) since it started" etc etc.. This would net what? 300k * +5.-EUR * 12 months = 18mil EUR more revenue.. lets say u sell 1000 monocles every month (optimal sheep/customer utopian world numbers, even more than 55 in 40hours) thats still only around 840k EUR (less than a million). OFC this only leads to CCP being forced to enter the non-vanity items world and practically force everyone to spend to be competetive, to even come close to the alternative SUB figures. Another arguement for increased SUB is that every subscription has to pay it while out of 300k accounts there are probably only 100k players, will you suit out your mining/trading/etc alt with vanity items or even non-vanity items, they are there for added functionality and even if every player was involved in MT it would probably only be 1/3 of all characters actually involved. CCP you will make less money with MTs while an increased SUB would have not only been accepted by the majority of the playerbase (while MT will be accepted by a minority and enforced onto the majority), we also wouldnt have the bitter taste of the betrayed and disgruntled customer in our mouths. I wont even mention the broken game that will be with P2W, cause it seems you clearly dont care about that. So CCP get off your delusional horse of grandiosity cause your idea of MT sucks both conceptually and in practice (it wont make u the buck u hoped for, while ruining everything you worked for), and if u need/want more money demand it the way we are ready to pay, dont try to invite us to dinner get us drunk and then steal our wallet.
Dretzle Omega Caldari Ozeki Corp.	Posted - 2011.06.27 14:46:00 - [2] Because we have more PLEX in-game than is being used. NeX is a PLEX sink. There's more than enough people that want to buy ISK with their $. CCP needed something to increase ISK demand for PLEX both to make the PLEX purchase more worthwhile and to increase $ demand for PLEX (the more a PLEX is worth ISK-wise, the more people will be willing to buy one). And this keeps with what they have done many times in not affecting the players (at least not directly) who don't care. Okay, it ups the PLEX price a bit if you want to sub for PLEX, but you don't have to buy NeX items if you don't want to. Raising the sub price affects all, and would rightly anger those that don't want to do anything with NeX.
Sujanra Acoma Minmatar Shadow Kitty Legion Rura-Penthe	Posted - 2011.06.27 14:47:00 - [3] Because a subscription fee hike would put them over the price of other MMOs and make them less competitive. I would probably quit and play something cheaper. MT for vanity items will be a draw for some people. If they're cheap enough, then plenty of folks will do it without even thinking about the price. What's a buck or two here or there? It'll come out with them making quite a bit more money than a fee hike. MT with prices as high as they are right now is silly, though. Way, way too expensive.
Ridickulo Minmatar Tiger-Shrimp Sons of EvE Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.27 14:49:00 - [4] Originally by: Kunming No one denies the fact that CCP is a company and their primary purpose is to make money. If they ruin EVE online its their RIGHT to do so, no one denies that this is their right and responsibility alone. Now comes the obvious title question: CCP could have increased the SUB price a notch claimed that the world currencies are all dropping in value (due to them being growth dependant economies in a world of peak oil crisis) so the need to increase SUB to overcome the inflation of paper currency, besides "we give you free expension" and "the game has evolved alot (content wise) since it started" etc etc.. This would net what? 300k * +5.-EUR * 12 months = 18mil EUR more revenue.. lets say u sell 1000 monocles every month (optimal sheep/customer utopian world numbers, even more than 55 in 40hours) thats still only around 840k EUR (less than a million). OFC this only leads to CCP being forced to enter the non-vanity items world and practically force everyone to spend to be competetive, to even come close to the alternative SUB figures. Another arguement for increased SUB is that every subscription has to pay it while out of 300k accounts there are probably only 100k players, will you suit out your mining/trading/etc alt with vanity items or even non-vanity items, they are there for added functionality and even if every player was involved in MT it would probably only be 1/3 of all characters actually involved. CCP you will make less money with MTs while an increased SUB would have not only been accepted by the majority of the playerbase (while MT will be accepted by a minority and enforced onto the majority), we also wouldnt have the bitter taste of the betrayed and disgruntled customer in our mouths. I wont even mention the broken game that will be with P2W, cause it seems you clearly dont care about that. So CCP get off your delusional horse of grandiosity cause your idea of MT sucks both conceptually and in practice (it wont make u the buck u hoped for, while ruining everything you worked for), and if u need/want more money demand it the way we are ready to pay, dont try to invite us to dinner get us drunk and then steal our wallet. Write smaller posts! GODDAM, who is gonna read all that condensed text! Just throw the idea out there and elaborate on it over the course of the thread.
Madcapnl The Rising Stars -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2011.06.27 14:51:00 - [5] I would certainly pay a couple of euros more every month to avoid MT completely. I have been playing since 2004 and I have no clue what we used to pay back then. Did the sub increase in price since then? Maybe someone has an overview of former sub prices?
Dretzle Omega Caldari Ozeki Corp.	Posted - 2011.06.27 14:52:00 - [6] Basically, it's simple. PLEX and NeX give people a choice of how much $ they want to spend on the game. A sub hike removes that choice. (NeX is for the ISK-rich, not the $ rich, as those with $ would compare the item to the $ their spending on it, while the ISK rich figure, well, I have this extra ISK lying around, I can't convert it to real dollars... oooo! Look! Shiny collectible!)
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.06.27 14:53:00 - [7] A subscription price increase would also imbalance the Plex market. People sitting on a stockpile of Plex right now would have a sudden wealth increase. RMT markets would go crazy. FREE Helicity and Niang!
Bloody2k Gallente ZERO T0LERANCE RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.27 14:55:00 - [8] It would be good income, if it flows into the development of EVE. But exactly that is what did not happen. EVE is the milk cow for other projects. With minimal effort generate U.S. dollars to develop other projects, this is what CCP wants. Income alone does not mind. Einmal mit Profis!
StillBorn CrackBaby	Posted - 2011.06.27 14:55:00 - [9] Originally by: Kunming No one denies the fact that CCP is a company and their primary purpose is to make money. If they ruin EVE online its their RIGHT to do so, no one denies that this is their right and responsibility alone. Exactly, adapt or quit....
Kunming Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E	Posted - 2011.06.27 14:56:00 - [10] Originally by: Sujanra Acoma Because a subscription fee hike would put them over the price of other MMOs and make them less competitive. I would probably quit and play something cheaper. MT for vanity items will be a draw for some people. If they're cheap enough, then plenty of folks will do it without even thinking about the price. What's a buck or two here or there? It'll come out with them making quite a bit more money than a fee hike. MT with prices as high as they are right now is silly, though. Way, way too expensive. No offence my fellow EVEer, but vanity items or their price is not the reason for all the rioting. CCP wants to implement a "pay2win" model, that is what everyone is protesting against..
Kerrisone	Posted - 2011.06.27 14:56:00 - [11] Same reason they are putting Dust514 on a console, to tap a new market. Players in EVE will pay for vanity and non vanity items/services it is a simple fact. CCP is betting on, maybe they have data, that they can make more money through these people than they would lose from people who'd quit over it. IF you take that to non vanity items/services they will find other people who don't care about how their avatar/ship looks but will pay for advantages. New markets, that is business 'corruption', if there is a market to do something like killing baby squirrels and it is legal or the fines are less than the profits/pr it is 'good business' to do it. Look at pollution and the environment where fines are laughable compared to the profits. Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
vasuul	Posted - 2011.06.27 14:57:00 - [12] Originally by: Ri**ulo Originally by: Kunming No one denies the fact that CCP is a company and their primary purpose is to make money. If they ruin EVE online its their RIGHT to do so, no one denies that this is their right and responsibility alone. Now comes the obvious title question: CCP could have increased the SUB price a notch claimed that the world currencies are all dropping in value (due to them being growth dependant economies in a world of peak oil crisis) so the need to increase SUB to overcome the inflation of paper currency, besides "we give you free expension" and "the game has evolved alot (content wise) since it started" etc etc.. This would net what? 300k * +5.-EUR * 12 months = 18mil EUR more revenue.. lets say u sell 1000 monocles every month (optimal sheep/customer utopian world numbers, even more than 55 in 40hours) thats still only around 840k EUR (less than a million). OFC this only leads to CCP being forced to enter the non-vanity items world and practically force everyone to spend to be competetive, to even come close to the alternative SUB figures. Another arguement for increased SUB is that every subscription has to pay it while out of 300k accounts there are probably only 100k players, will you suit out your mining/trading/etc alt with vanity items or even non-vanity items, they are there for added functionality and even if every player was involved in MT it would probably only be 1/3 of all characters actually involved. CCP you will make less money with MTs while an increased SUB would have not only been accepted by the majority of the playerbase (while MT will be accepted by a minority and enforced onto the majority), we also wouldnt have the bitter taste of the betrayed and disgruntled customer in our mouths. I wont even mention the broken game that will be with P2W, cause it seems you clearly dont care about that. So CCP get off your delusional horse of grandiosity cause your idea of MT sucks both conceptually and in practice (it wont make u the buck u hoped for, while ruining everything you worked for), and if u need/want more money demand it the way we are ready to pay, dont try to invite us to dinner get us drunk and then steal our wallet. Write smaller posts! GODDAM, who is gonna read all that condensed text! Just throw the idea out there and elaborate on it over the course of the thread. I read it all you need glasses they will be selling them in the nex store for 5000 euros worth of plex soon as to the original poster +1 ISK is our currency the game needs no other LONG LIVE ISK
Race Drones 13th Squadron E C L I P S E	Posted - 2011.06.27 14:58:00 - [13] To CCP increase SUBs, they only need make accesible the payment methods in local money. ----- EVE Online is a Bad Game that the Players make Good.
Diomedes Calypso Aetolian Armada	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:06:00 - [14] If an Isk sink is needed many items like colorful care bear drones could have been introduced and sold directly from NPCS to players for ISK. Titles could have been sold, so NPCs addressed you as "sir" . (only players themselves would see that but it might be fun). For immense amounts of isk a number of system naming rights could have been sold .... 1 trillion isk a pop maybe? ... only a few designated per region ... maybe a fixed max of 100 a year but that could drain large ammounts from the top of the pyramid. There are all sorts of potential isk drains that would only entice the very isk wealthy without forcing all players into a vanity environment to do basic functions. What an amazing thing it is to show the world that a one shard universe can be done. How amazing was it to provide a place where social constructs and players organizations could be built by men an
Kunming Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:18:00 - [15] Did you guys even read the original post I wrote?? Most of the answers indicate you didnt. By SUB, I mean subscription price. The arguement of competition amongst the MMO market is not something I take as granted. Where I live there is McDonalds (ofc) and then there is this local burgershop (they started as a butchery), as 1 person I need to pay around 10 EUR for McDonalds, I would pay 15 EUR to eat at the local burgershop. And you know what since that shop opened 3 years ago, I havent been to McDonalds, ever. The fact that McD is cheap doesnt change the fact that their product is crap (hell is that even organic, I heard McBurger/Fries never rot), the local burgershop offers 200g genuine cow meat for 50%-60% the price which I gladly pay because their product is ace. The other MMOs might be cheaper but we play EVE not because its cheap but because its unique, has a unique setting, a unique player driven economy (unlike anything on the market). If you say ppl wont play EVE, because its expensive, is just an excuse for bad marketing IMO. [PLEX].. k you need plex sinks so more ppl buy plex with an intention to legal-RMT, which is extra reveneu besides the fixed and calculatable SUB. I wont open this topic here since it deserves one of its own.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:21:00 - [16] Edited by: Akita T on 27/06/2011 15:22:41 Why not just increase sub prices ? Because if you would increase subs by, say, 33% (in a game where people are ALREADY complaining about the sub cost being too high), you might very well lose 25% of the current subscriber count (if not more), and then you would have made no extra money at all. Plus, as you realized yourself, we have a PLEX generation surplus that needs to go away somehow, and AUR//MT is the only logical choice. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Dark Reignz	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:22:00 - [17] Originally by: Madcapnl I would certainly pay a couple of euros more every month to avoid MT completely. I have been playing since 2004 and I have no clue what we used to pay back then. Did the sub increase in price since then? Maybe someone has an overview of former sub prices? IIRC Europeans and Americans used to pay the same then CCP decided to play the currency game charging europeans 14.99 euro and americans 14.99 USD which means europeans were having to pay the equivilant of 22.99 USD or there abouts in monthly sub terms. I'll defo be one of the quitters if I'm expected to pay more in subs. The noble Exchange is optional, you dont have to buy anything and it supplements subs so no increases are needed. However, prices need drastically changing because ú14.99 to ú40 for 1 item is beyond rediculous and the only problem with it, in my eyes.
Kunming Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:25:00 - [18] Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 27/06/2011 15:22:41 Why not just increase sub prices ? Because if you would increase subs by, say, 33% (in a game where people are ALREADY complaining about the sub cost being too high), you might very well lose 25% of the current subscriber count (if not more), and then you would have made no extra money at all. Plus, as you realized yourself, we have a PLEX generation surplus that needs to go away somehow, and AUR//MT is the only logical choice. So its a better idea to kill the driving force in EVE: the player driven economy? Also I'm not directly criticising vanity items, but the direction this is all going, namely "pay2win".
Enna Shendara	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:32:00 - [19] Edited by: Enna Shendara on 27/06/2011 15:34:18 Originally by: Sujanra Acoma Because a subscription fee hike would put them over the price of other MMOs and make them less competitive. I would probably quit and play something cheaper. Then you might be surprised to know you are certainly in the minority. Eve has always been more expensive then other MMO's for me. When I first started playing the Australian exchange rate VS US was fluctuating wildly and CCP hadn't updated them in quite some time and the AUD had formerly been fairly stable, and as a result I was having to pay almost $8 more then I would for, say, world of warcraft, despite them being nominally almost the same per month. Last time I checked, which was a while ago, anyone paying in euros was having similar issues. The thing is, most people aren't so poor that they cannot afford an extra $5 per month. Eve is not, empirically speaking, expensive. I spend more money every week on transport then I do every month to pay for two accounts. An extra $10 wont kill me. If CCP needs more money, then a subscription hike is the right thing to do.
Kunming Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E	Posted - 2011.06.27 18:02:00 - [20] Originally by: Enna Shendara Edited by: Enna Shendara on 27/06/2011 15:34:18 Originally by: Sujanra Acoma Because a subscription fee hike would put them over the price of other MMOs and make them less competitive. I would probably quit and play something cheaper. Then you might be surprised to know you are certainly in the minority. Eve has always been more expensive then other MMO's for me. When I first started playing the Australian exchange rate VS US was fluctuating wildly and CCP hadn't updated them in quite some time and the AUD had formerly been fairly stable, and as a result I was having to pay almost $8 more then I would for, say, world of warcraft, despite them being nominally almost the same per month. Last time I checked, which was a while ago, anyone paying in euros was having similar issues. The thing is, most people aren't so poor that they cannot afford an extra $5 per month. Eve is not, empirically speaking, expensive. I spend more money every week on transport then I do every month to pay for two accounts. An extra $10 wont kill me. If CCP needs more money, then a subscription hike is the right thing to do. Thats what I was thinking. I mean I have 2 regular and 1 on/off accounts (although only 1 active atm), 10-15 even 20 EUR more wouldnt hurt at all. The ppl playing EVE play it because of the niche role it fills, being a player driven space themed MMO, there are not many around and EVE is/was the shining diamond. CCP has practically no serious competition they can price this thing double and more than half of the players would still probably be playing. So while they have this good of a product and position why bring the whole thing down to the level of some F2P korean MMO?? Im aware of the arguement that CCP wants to reach to more markets but I thought thats the whole idea behind DUST for consoles and WOD for the vampire and fantasy crowd.
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.27 18:04:00 - [21] The subscription fee is already high, compared to other MMO and the public outcry in the forum would be: I HATE INCARNA AND I DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR THE STUFF, MAKE IT OPTIONAL IN A MT STORE1111 Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
KING TERROR Royal Dutch Secret Service	Posted - 2011.06.27 18:04:00 - [22] MT = MO MONEY
Kunming Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E	Posted - 2011.06.27 18:11:00 - [23] Originally by: KING TERROR MT = MO MONEY It also means useless vanity content + some stupid uber booster pack of the month.. Basically EVE is now made by fashion designers and Shoping TV addicts.. Also CCP makes less money per subscription compared to 4 years ago because of the EURO inflation of like 14% (numbers come totally out of my behind ofc), so if they upped the subscription price by 14% that would just be fair. All Im saying if a price increase is needed they should just do it instead of running everyone mad and ruining the game while at it..
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.27 18:11:00 - [24] Originally by: Kunming Originally by: Akita T Why not just increase sub prices ? Because if you would increase subs by, say, 33% (in a game where people are ALREADY complaining about the sub cost being too high), you might very well lose 25% of the current subscriber count (if not more), and then you would have made no extra money at all. Plus, as you realized yourself, we have a PLEX generation surplus that needs to go away somehow, and AUR//MT is the only logical choice. So its a better idea to kill the driving force in EVE: the player driven economy? Also I'm not directly criticising vanity items, but the direction this is all going, namely "pay2win". First off, we already have a certain level of "pay to win". It's called selling PLEX for ISK. Or, you know, RMTing with the risk of getting caught and punished, if selling PLEX is not "cheap enough". So we're not really talking changing direction, we're talking altering magnitude. Second, the intention was to turn the NEX into a glorified, modern style LP-shop in which you pay AUR instead of LP. Granted, they rushed it, but that's a whole different story. In the end, NEX will become almost like a LP-shop. You don't see people crying that the faction items from the LP-shops bypass the economy of the game, or that they kill invention profit or the named item markets, or do you ? Third, you can have the NEX not affecting the economy EVEN IF you add "advantage-granting" items, as long as the price is prohibitive enough compared to the next best (already available in-game) thing, to keep it from noticeably altering the demand for the rest of the non-AUR items. It's just a matter of how much they cost. You want stuff that's the same or better to cost more or noticeably more. Some people WILL buy some anyway, if even for convenience purposes. Sure, it's a thin line of balance on which CCP has proven notoriously bad at walking, but still, it is at least within the realm of manageability. And last but not least, you can have a profitable NEX without adding any advantage-granting things, so probably not even touching the rest of the economy at all. This thread contains some ideas. Feel free to add more to the list. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Tom Peeping	Posted - 2011.06.27 18:30:00 - [25] To be honest, I'm not in favor of either MT or of an increased sub. The real issue is incompetence at the highest levels of CCP. Quite frankly, while it's not like I have every number out there, it seems like EVE is a quite viable business and the primary reason why they need more money at present is that they have simply undertaken too many development projects at one time. A little better fiscal handling, and prioritizing of projects, and there's no problems, and no need to attempt to force players of one game,to pay for both their own game, and another game. We're simply seeing the results of CCP's leadership direction... Their eyes are too large for their stomachs and now they have something unpleasant to chew on.
Kunming Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E	Posted - 2011.06.27 18:38:00 - [26] @ Akita T: The PLEX is a change of gametime (payed by another player) for ISK. No item is being generated no player gains an upper hand in anything. Sure the player selling PLEX get some ISK which allows him to buy stuff, maybe even stuff he wouldnt be able to get on his own like a titan, but the ISK circulates within the EVE economy. And the PLEX is turned into gametime, hardly something that will effect the game economy in anyway. Non-vanity MT store will need to have items that will really make a difference or they wont sell, this means it will become the new norm. Even if you could also buy them on the market it will result in the obsoletion of all industry in EVE (remember how T2 made any T1 production pretty obsolete) and all resource gathering besides pure ISK, that will turn everyone into a missions zombie and most if not all pvp will be pretty much arena style pvp since this would end all conflicts on resources.
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.06.27 18:43:00 - [27] Originally by: Kunming @ Akita T: The PLEX is a change of gametime (payed by another player) for ISK. No item is being generated no player gains an upper hand in anything. Sure the player selling PLEX get some ISK which allows him to buy stuff, maybe even stuff he wouldnt be able to get on his own like a titan, but the ISK circulates within the EVE economy. And the PLEX is turned into gametime, hardly something that will effect the game economy in anyway. Plex is ultimately purchased with real money. If you increase the sub-price, you increase the value of Plex. If you increase the value of Plex, then all those stockpiles now are worth a greater value. Increasing the sub-price will directly throw the economy off by changing the value of the Plex, increasing the amount of ISK you can get per Plex, and depreciating the value of ISK. FREE Helicity and Niang!
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.27 18:44:00 - [28] Edited by: Akita T on 27/06/2011 18:47:35 Originally by: Kunming @ Akita T: The PLEX is a change of gametime (payed by another player) for ISK. No item is being generated no player gains an upper hand in anything. Sure the player selling PLEX get some ISK which allows him to buy stuff, maybe even stuff he wouldnt be able to get on his own like a titan, but the ISK circulates within the EVE economy. And the PLEX is turned into gametime, hardly something that will effect the game economy in anyway. That answers my very first point. There were four. You conveniently leave out big parts of points two and three. Quote: Non-vanity MT store will need to have items that will really make a difference or they wont sell, this means it will become the new norm. Even if you could also buy them on the market it will result in the obsoletion of all industry in EVE (remember how T2 made any T1 production pretty obsolete) and all resource gathering besides pure ISK, that will turn everyone into a missions zombie and most if not all pvp will be pretty much arena style pvp since this would end all conflicts on resources. The introduction of T2 didn't actually make T1 production obsolete. INVENTION and massive meta-item loot drops rendered T1 module production nearly obsolete. That's a very important distinction. It teaches the lesson that if you have some things that are close in performance, you need to watch the "pricing" equivalent carefully if you want to preserve the lower market when you introduce an upper tier. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Dretzle Omega Caldari Ozeki Corp.	Posted - 2011.06.27 19:06:00 - [29] Originally by: Kunming @ Akita T: The PLEX is a change of gametime (payed by another player) for ISK. No item is being generated no player gains an upper hand in anything. Sure the player selling PLEX get some ISK which allows him to buy stuff, maybe even stuff he wouldnt be able to get on his own like a titan, but the ISK circulates within the EVE economy. And the PLEX is turned into gametime, hardly something that will effect the game economy in anyway. Non-vanity MT store will need to have items that will really make a difference or they wont sell, this means it will become the new norm. Even if you could also buy them on the market it will result in the obsoletion of all industry in EVE (remember how T2 made any T1 production pretty obsolete) and all resource gathering besides pure ISK, that will turn everyone into a missions zombie and most if not all pvp will be pretty much arena style pvp since this would end all conflicts on resources. There's many problematic assumptions in this post. 1st and easiest to hit is the assumption that T2 made T1 production obsolete. This is not true. I myself have had my hand at, and made good profit, with T1 production. So there's still a demand out there. Originally by: Kunming The PLEX is a change of gametime (payed by another player) for ISK. No, the PLEX is a means to change $ into ISK (legally), on the one side, and previously that could only be used for game time, on the other side. The "pay to win" side is the side that is paying $ for ISK. They're already paying to buy the best with $. We already have "pay to win". Originally by: Kunming that will really make a difference or they wont sell, this means it will become the new norm This is both true and not at the same time. What's true is that they would need to make a difference or they won't sell. What's not is that they will become the new norm. For example, T3. It doesn't yet feel like the new norm to me, is it? Save for maybe wormhole exploration or formerly unprobable mission running, but certainly not in PvP. Why not? (1) It's prohibitively expensive for the advantage it would bring in PvP (2) It provides versatility, not necessarily (or not always) a direct DPS advantage. The NeX store could do the same, assuming they go with "pay to win" items. (1) The items could require a base item like the LP store does. Therefore, we're including the Eve economy in the deal. (Hey, include the T2 item as base, effectively bringing in T1 and T2 production.) (2) The items can be prohibitively expensive. Sure, it could provide some extra DPS above T2 or Faction ammo, but why not when the player effectively had to pay 5 times more than the ship he destroyed to bring it down? and (3) The items can be different/unique while not necessarily being better. Just like T3, make the items provide versatility. Bring in omni hybrid ammo, or guns that provide a faster rate of fire, but burn out relatively quickly. or (4) Instead of or along with versatility, provide items that have a niche. An item that is much more useful, but only in a very limited application. That's assuming they provide "pay to win" purchases, at all. Akita T's thread has some good ideas about non-vanity items that don't affect gameplay that would still make the NeX store profitable.
Kunming Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E	Posted - 2011.06.27 19:07:00 - [30] On point 2 then, LP is gained by getting involving in gameplay. Item store items need to be better than whats out there to be sold so it will offer the best without getting involved in gameplay. The point is any game is better without real life money getting involved, especially EVE which has been a sucess because of the player driven economy, and since CCP will get the money out of us one way or the other, I simply say just increase the SUB and get done with it without actually breaking the game. Point 3 has been sorta adressed in previous post. On to the actual issue why CCP probably not doing what Im suggesting (Im sure they considered this, they arent idiots they know whats going on), the PLEX already stockpiled out there, as mentioned in the above post increasing SUB would mean increasing the indirect DEBT CCP has to pay as PLEX = service not yet served. In this regard I feel sympathy with their move to melt that PLEX stockpile but as can be seen in repeating threads the whole issue is not vanity items but non-vanity items.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.27 19:14:00 - [31] Edited by: Akita T on 27/06/2011 19:16:02 Originally by: Kunming The point is any game is better without real life money getting involved, especially EVE which has been a sucess because of the player driven economy, and since CCP will get the money out of us one way or the other, I simply say just increase the SUB and get done with it without actually breaking the game. Yes, of course I would like to get everything CHEAPER myself, including housing, food, electricity, internet and everything, and have it paid for by higher taxes on everybody else. But then again, I wouldn't like those taxes either. Hmm, what to do, what to do... Raising the sub price won't work. Not properly, anyway. People have been moaning about how high EVE's sub is already. Do you think a hike in sub cost would bring in MORE people or make some go away ? There's no logic track in the world that can lead to the former conclusion. So you will lose paying sub customers. You will also have to hike up GTC/PLEX rates, and that will mean their ISK price will also raise, so you will lose some subscribers that pay with PLEX too. Overal, it's quite possible that a 33% increase in sub might lead to a 25% sub loss, thus rendering the entire exercise moot, as no extra revenue would be collected. And you will STILL have the problem of more PLEX created than destroyed. Quote: I feel sympathy with their move to melt that PLEX stockpile but as can be seen in repeating threads the whole issue is not vanity items but non-vanity items. Hence, my very last, fourth point. You _CAN_ have non-vanity items that ALSO do not grant any direct gameplay advantages. Here's some. What exactly would you have against those ? _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Kunming Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E	Posted - 2011.06.27 19:20:00 - [32] Originally by: Dretzle Omega ... You sound like one of those people who thought titans and super carriers would be rare in EVE. This is not some 1vs1 tournament m8, if this thing goes live whole alliances will outfit them because they have all the best passive incomes anyway (tec moons etc), so it will become the norm trust me. T1 is still out there because ISK still has a value and T1 is cost efficient. T3 is still not the norm because the ships fill some niche roles anyway. Also I dont know why anyone would support non-vanity items, so you guys suck at the game and simply want buy your way to the victory. Because if u only wanted ISK you could sell a couple PLEX, but no you want items better than whats out there.
Kridak	Posted - 2011.06.27 19:22:00 - [33] Edited by: Kridak on 27/06/2011 19:25:31 Lets draw a parallel between MMO's and movie franchises. Pick one of your favourite movie with sequels eg. Star Wars, now whatever happens with the following movies Star Wars 1977 will always remain awesome right? He might have tried to wreck it with to many sequels/prequels. But Star Wars 1977 will forever sell amazingly because it's so good no matter what. Unless... of course you'd be stupid enough to re-cut the original movie, changing one of the worlds most beloved stories for no reason whatsoever. If you don't get it, ask your dad. HAN SHOT FIRST! Lucas is a money-grubbing as*hole, lets welcome Hilmar to the club. Being a decent human being adding something good to the world got boring I guess.
Torothanax	Posted - 2011.06.27 19:25:00 - [34] They can't increase the subscription price or they look greedy. Which they clearly are. At least upper management. So they have to be all sneaky and and nickel and dime as many people as possible as often as possible. ---- "...I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say." Just because a lot of people are stupid, doesn't mean we all are.
Portmanteau Gallente CTRL-Q	Posted - 2011.06.27 19:25:00 - [35] Originally by: Dretzle Omega Because we have more PLEX in-game than is being used. NeX is a PLEX sink. There's more than enough people that want to buy ISK with their $. CCP needed something to increase ISK demand for PLEX both to make the PLEX purchase more worthwhile and to increase $ demand for PLEX (the more a PLEX is worth ISK-wise, the more people will be willing to buy one). And this keeps with what they have done many times in not affecting the players (at least not directly) who don't care. Okay, it ups the PLEX price a bit if you want to sub for PLEX, but you don't have to buy NeX items if you don't want to. Raising the sub price affects all, and would rightly anger those that don't want to do anything with NeX. totally agree with this ... just don't share the optimistic viewpoint of the effect this will have on the economy or poorer players
Torothanax	Posted - 2011.06.27 19:34:00 - [36] As for plex, they whole reason THEY said it was being introduced was to curb real money trading. I don't think it helped, given that the isk farmers are stock piling them and trying to manipulate the plex market. Just last month someone bought out the entire plex market in Heimatar and then tried to push thier plex for over a billion a pop. The NeX is just to generate more income, nothing more. The "too many plex" issue is just an excuse. If plex is really an issue, which it doesn't seem to me, since they keep banning the people stockpiling them, then they need to limit or flat out stop the speculation on them. ---- "...I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say." Just because a lot of people are stupid, doesn't mean we all are.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.27 19:39:00 - [37] Originally by: Torothanax They can't increase the subscription price or they look greedy. Which they clearly are. At least upper management. So they have to be all sneaky and and nickel and dime as many people as possible as often as possible. They had a net profit of 6 mil for 2009 and 5.4 mil for 2010. That's not particularly greedy. I know software houses over here in Romania that make a shedload more profit with less employees, and they code webjunk mostly. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
JMERCENARY	Posted - 2011.06.27 19:42:00 - [38] Originally by: Kunming No one denies the fact that CCP is a company and their primary purpose is to make money. If they ruin EVE online its their RIGHT to do so, no one denies that this is their right and responsibility alone. Now comes the obvious title question: CCP could have increased the SUB price a notch claimed that the world currencies are all dropping in value (due to them being growth dependant economies in a world of peak oil crisis) so the need to increase SUB to overcome the inflation of paper currency, besides "we give you free expension" You sir are out of your mind! Go take ownership of a random bussines and drive it to the ground plz. Prices as it is are 19 euro for Europe when it used to be just 9. More increase in price will doom this game. I am starting to believe there is an infestation of agent provocateurs on these forums lately that want to see EVE going down. ex: disgruntled player, gets reactivation e-mail, checks NeX claims of the forums and joins on the whine while he is hacking away or whatever in his "other game" account.
Cocomomo	Posted - 2011.06.27 19:47:00 - [39] or just make the game more fun / less frustrating to increase the total sub....
Medidranda Livoga	Posted - 2011.06.27 19:47:00 - [40] They could just up the sub cost by 10%. That would pretty much double their profit margin. But I`m not sure how much they are going to spend on WoD development, which is probably art intensive effort. Not to mention working on their new engine too. 33% increase in one swoop is indeed too much, trick is once again make cost increase seem nominal and stay below pain treshold of most subbers.
Kunming Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E	Posted - 2011.06.27 19:49:00 - [41] Originally by: JMERCENARY Originally by: Kunming No one denies the fact that CCP is a company and their primary purpose is to make money. If they ruin EVE online its their RIGHT to do so, no one denies that this is their right and responsibility alone. Now comes the obvious title question: CCP could have increased the SUB price a notch claimed that the world currencies are all dropping in value (due to them being growth dependant economies in a world of peak oil crisis) so the need to increase SUB to overcome the inflation of paper currency, besides "we give you free expension" You sir are out of your mind! Go take ownership of a random bussines and drive it to the ground plz. Prices as it is are 19 euro for Europe when it used to be just 9. More increase in price will doom this game. I am starting to believe there is an infestation of agent provocateurs on these forums lately that want to see EVE going down. ex: disgruntled player, gets reactivation e-mail, checks NeX claims of the forums and joins on the whine while he is hacking away or whatever in his "other game" account. Im sorry that you think that I wanna run this game down.. no in fact Im ready to pay more to save it. I dont oppose AUR for vanity items -it is a necessary evil just like PLEX was- infact it will be cool to have fancy corp meeting rooms and strip clubs, but I oppose the Pay2Win (P2W) model, that will ruin EVE. And the question, that has even gone around in big scary yellow letters, remains: will CCP ever introduce non-vanity items or not?
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.06.27 19:50:00 - [42] Originally by: Medidranda Livoga They could just up the sub cost by 10%. That would pretty much double their profit margin. But I`m not sure how much they are going to spend on WoD development, which is probably art intensive effort. Not to mention working on their new engine too. 33% increase in one swoop is indeed too much, trick is once again make cost increase seem nominal and stay below pain treshold of most subbers. Increasing the sub would throw the economy off. Plex prices are directly tied to subscription prices. If a month's play becomes more "valuable", Plex prices will increase. Everyone with Plex's stocked up will find themselves with a sudden increase in fortune. Isk will be devalued. FREE Helicity and Niang!
Kunming Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E	Posted - 2011.06.27 19:53:00 - [43] Originally by: Ingvar Angst Originally by: Medidranda Livoga They could just up the sub cost by 10%. That would pretty much double their profit margin. But I`m not sure how much they are going to spend on WoD development, which is probably art intensive effort. Not to mention working on their new engine too. 33% increase in one swoop is indeed too much, trick is once again make cost increase seem nominal and stay below pain treshold of most subbers. Increasing the sub would throw the economy off. Plex prices are directly tied to subscription prices. If a month's play becomes more "valuable", Plex prices will increase. Everyone with Plex's stocked up will find themselves with a sudden increase in fortune. Isk will be devalued. ISK doesnt get devalued like that. The buying power of ISK will remain the same the demand on goods on the market will remain the same so I definetly dont accept that arguemnent.
Medidranda Livoga	Posted - 2011.06.27 19:54:00 - [44] Edited by: Medidranda Livoga on 27/06/2011 19:55:09 Adding more uses for PLEX does the same thing so I see no problem? In addition on both cases there will be some extra PLEX sellers as it becomes more tempting to sell one for isk. Since sub price is tied to real world fake currencies it actually devalues all the time with it anyway if it stays the same.

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