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Dare Knight
Minmatar
OSI Holdings
   |
Posted - 2011.06.27 15:47:00 -
[1]
I've been photoshopping together a newsletter similar to Fearless, but aimed at discussion around the community for CCP.
Now, you're going to ask how this benefits us or why this should be done. The forums are very very messy. I think that's an understatement. It takes people forEVER to read through a 400 page thread, and then there's sifting through the ponies (I love ponies) and flame posts to get to the real meat an potatoes.
Something like this would benefit us in that a once weekly or biweekly 'newsletter' from the community to CCP would give them a very brief and abridged version of the communities views as a whole, cutting through the crap and flame and getting to the heart of the issue.
This isn't to say that we've not been clear in our wishes and concerns, as we have been. For the future, though, this COULD aid CCP in sifting through everything more quickly to respond in a better manner than they have.
In true trolling spirit, I'd like to call the newletter "Fallout". I'm bringing this post to the forums to ask for two things:
1) Do you have a better name suggestion?
2) Other than the obvious questions, concerns about direction, and suggestions about fixing PvP and Blops, what else can we throw into this thing for CCP to follow?
---
<Insert whitty signature here> |
Ike Snicklefritz
Amarr
Pink Fuzzy Dice
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Posted - 2011.06.27 15:52:00 -
[2]
It's a good idea in principle. I'm sure it would be exceptionally difficult to regularly summarize the community's issues, but if you could get it going and have CCP acknowledge and read the thing, it would be great for all parties involved. There's not much I can contribute, but I do wish you luck.
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Dare Knight
Minmatar
OSI Holdings
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Posted - 2011.06.27 16:00:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Ike Snicklefritz
It's a good idea in principle. I'm sure it would be exceptionally difficult to regularly summarize the community's issues, but if you could get it going and have CCP acknowledge and read the thing, it would be great for all parties involved. There's not much I can contribute, but I do wish you luck.
I don't think getting at least ONE person to look at it would get it to start passing it around. Personally I'm on the same page as CCP Shadow, we're all players, and we all want the best for EVE. If it's true, and if there's a lack of communication internally, maybe this might be a method of bridging that gap.
---
<Insert whitty signature here> |
LuNaRiAn SeRpEnT
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Posted - 2011.06.27 16:05:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Dare Knight
I've been photoshopping together a newsletter similar to Fearless, but aimed at discussion around the community for CCP.
Now, you're going to ask how this benefits us or why this should be done. The forums are very very messy. I think that's an understatement. It takes people forEVER to read through a 400 page thread, and then there's sifting through the ponies (I love ponies) and flame posts to get to the real meat an potatoes.
Something like this would benefit us in that a once weekly or biweekly 'newsletter' from the community to CCP would give them a very brief and abridged version of the communities views as a whole, cutting through the crap and flame and getting to the heart of the issue.
This isn't to say that we've not been clear in our wishes and concerns, as we have been. For the future, though, this COULD aid CCP in sifting through everything more quickly to respond in a better manner than they have.
In true trolling spirit, I'd like to call the newletter "Fallout". I'm bringing this post to the forums to ask for two things:
1) Do you have a better name suggestion?
2) Other than the obvious questions, concerns about direction, and suggestions about fixing PvP and Blops, what else can we throw into this thing for CCP to follow?
YOU really think that YOU throwing together a biased PDF contianing the issues that YOU want CCP to validate for YOU is going to contain more information about the general opinions of the Eve community than they already have?
Sounds to me like you are a bit short sighted and lack the comprehension to understand that you don't have the slightest clue what is going on here.
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Tobiaz
Spacerats
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Posted - 2011.06.27 16:08:00 -
[5]
I suggest you try out InDesign. It's also from the Adobe Suite but tooled towards creating magazines and such.
+ 1500 votes on MT in EVE | NO 79.03% | YES 5.02% | COSMETIC ONLY 11.23% | OTHER 4.73% |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
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Posted - 2011.06.27 16:10:00 -
[6]
Originally by: LuNaRiAn SeRpEnT
Originally by: Dare Knight
I've been photoshopping together a newsletter similar to Fearless, but aimed at discussion around the community for CCP.
Now, you're going to ask how this benefits us or why this should be done. The forums are very very messy. I think that's an understatement. It takes people forEVER to read through a 400 page thread, and then there's sifting through the ponies (I love ponies) and flame posts to get to the real meat an potatoes.
Something like this would benefit us in that a once weekly or biweekly 'newsletter' from the community to CCP would give them a very brief and abridged version of the communities views as a whole, cutting through the crap and flame and getting to the heart of the issue.
This isn't to say that we've not been clear in our wishes and concerns, as we have been. For the future, though, this COULD aid CCP in sifting through everything more quickly to respond in a better manner than they have.
In true trolling spirit, I'd like to call the newletter "Fallout". I'm bringing this post to the forums to ask for two things:
1) Do you have a better name suggestion?
2) Other than the obvious questions, concerns about direction, and suggestions about fixing PvP and Blops, what else can we throw into this thing for CCP to follow?
YOU really think that YOU throwing together a biased PDF contianing the issues that YOU want CCP to validate for YOU is going to contain more information about the general opinions of the Eve community than they already have?
Sounds to me like you are a bit short sighted and lack the comprehension to understand that you don't have the slightest clue what is going on here.
Haters gotta hate, trolls gotta troll, but you're just a jerk I guess 
+ 1500 votes on MT in EVE | NO 79.03% | YES 5.02% | COSMETIC ONLY 11.23% | OTHER 4.73% |
Dare Knight
Minmatar
OSI Holdings
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 16:11:00 -
[7]
Originally by: LuNaRiAn SeRpEnT
Originally by: Dare Knight
I've been photoshopping together a newsletter similar to Fearless, but aimed at discussion around the community for CCP.
Now, you're going to ask how this benefits us or why this should be done. The forums are very very messy. I think that's an understatement. It takes people forEVER to read through a 400 page thread, and then there's sifting through the ponies (I love ponies) and flame posts to get to the real meat an potatoes.
Something like this would benefit us in that a once weekly or biweekly 'newsletter' from the community to CCP would give them a very brief and abridged version of the communities views as a whole, cutting through the crap and flame and getting to the heart of the issue.
This isn't to say that we've not been clear in our wishes and concerns, as we have been. For the future, though, this COULD aid CCP in sifting through everything more quickly to respond in a better manner than they have.
In true trolling spirit, I'd like to call the newletter "Fallout". I'm bringing this post to the forums to ask for two things:
1) Do you have a better name suggestion?
2) Other than the obvious questions, concerns about direction, and suggestions about fixing PvP and Blops, what else can we throw into this thing for CCP to follow?
YOU really think that YOU throwing together a biased PDF contianing the issues that YOU want CCP to validate for YOU is going to contain more information about the general opinions of the Eve community than they already have?
Sounds to me like you are a bit short sighted and lack the comprehension to understand that you don't have the slightest clue what is going on here.
Yeah.... all about "me"... Who's short sighted now...?
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<Insert whitty signature here> |
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CCP Fallout
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Posted - 2011.06.27 16:12:00 -
[8]
:D
Fallout
Associate Community Manager
CCP Hf, EVE Online
Contact us |
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Dare Knight
Minmatar
OSI Holdings
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Posted - 2011.06.27 16:14:00 -
[9]
Originally by: CCP Fallout
:D
Just saying, if it's a positive thing and COULD help the community and help you guys get to the issues at heart faster and more efficiently, it benefits us all.
Anyone have any feedback?
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<Insert whitty signature here> |
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CCP Fallout
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Posted - 2011.06.27 16:18:00 -
[10]
I truly hope you get it off the ground and can't wait to read the first issue!
Fallout
Associate Community Manager
CCP Hf, EVE Online
Contact us |
|
The Okamik
Gallente
Elitist Jerks
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Posted - 2011.06.27 16:19:00 -
[11]
Id be happy to help and contribute if needed. Perosnally i love and support the idea and the name. This theoretically will push home the point that the community wants achieved in EVE. If you really wanted to expand on it, intergrating issues and events that scope wouldnt usually cover. Handing such a document to the CSM would also be beneficial as it would imrpove communication between the players and the CSM and hopefully get them into a more active role into looking out for community interests. If doen right, it could be a major step forward within the EVE community in getting voices heard without name calling and ponies (seriously... my niece watches that show... why is the theme so damned catchy!?)
=][= ---------------------------------------- =][=
don't fear the reaper. Fear the guy that's gonna send you to Him |
Dare Knight
Minmatar
OSI Holdings
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 16:21:00 -
[12]
Originally by: The Okamik
Id be happy to help and contribute if needed. Perosnally i love and support the idea and the name. This theoretically will push home the point that the community wants achieved in EVE. If you really wanted to expand on it, intergrating issues and events that scope wouldnt usually cover. Handing such a document to the CSM would also be beneficial as it would imrpove communication between the players and the CSM and hopefully get them into a more active role into looking out for community interests. If doen right, it could be a major step forward within the EVE community in getting voices heard without name calling and ponies (seriously... my niece watches that show... why is the theme so damned catchy!?)
I don't know, I've started watching it with my daughter, too :P
And yes, this is exactly my point. I'm putting together the first article now as I've gotten most of the imagery done already. I'll be happy to release the first part of it in a little bit here for critiquing.
ANY feedback you have, Fallout, I would appreciate. I also still need feedback on the first two questions.
---
<Insert whitty signature here> |
edith prickley
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Posted - 2011.06.27 16:21:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Dare Knight
In true trolling spirit, I'd like to call the newletter "Fallout". I'm bringing this post to the forums to ask for two things:
1) Do you have a better name suggestion?
"Fearful" ?
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vasuul
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Posted - 2011.06.27 16:22:00 -
[14]
Edited by: vasuul on 27/06/2011 16:27:34
go for it if you think they will ever listen im hoping the CSM meeting goes well
but I'm afraid as long as AUR and the whole MT thing is on the table we will be at a sad impasse
Still i applaud any attempt
+1
the name is fine whatever you want to call it
as for topics i guess the first one would be fix whats broken this one would list obvious problems
next post could be if it aint broke don't fix it this one would list what we like and want to make sure stays the way it is
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Gaztanshana
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Posted - 2011.06.27 16:22:00 -
[15]
I love this idea, please include a "fun" section that, for example, has all the hilarious images from the door thread.
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Majuan Shuo
Gallente
Sons Of 0din
Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.06.27 16:26:00 -
[16]
The Daily Pony
"All your monies AUR belong to us." -- CCP |
Juliette DuBois
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Posted - 2011.06.27 16:27:00 -
[17]
"Viking Bravery"? "No Brakes"?
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Ranger 1
Amarr
Paragon Fury
Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.06.27 16:29:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Majuan Shuo
The Daily Pony
Better: The Pony Express
=====
The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
Zondrail
Formic Hive
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Posted - 2011.06.27 16:29:00 -
[19]
I'd recommend:
1. Using Tippia's writings on the current issues as a guideline.
2. Include player's feelings on things like the legitimacy of the CSM, CCP's communication to the player's, CCP's respect for the player's desires (and of those brought to them through the CSM).
3. A player-based discussion on MT like the one they did?
4. If they agreed to fix one of the following: faction warfare, bounty hunting, or low-sec, I think the playerbase would start feeling a lot better about things.
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The Okamik
Gallente
Elitist Jerks
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Posted - 2011.06.27 16:34:00 -
[20]
As a gallente pilot, id also like to see an article on Hybrid turrets and gallente ships to explore the viability of Blaster and rail boats and what needs to change with them
=][= ---------------------------------------- =][=
don't fear the reaper. Fear the guy that's gonna send you to Him |
Dare Knight
Minmatar
OSI Holdings
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 16:34:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Zondrail
I'd recommend:
1. Using Tippia's writings on the current issues as a guideline.
2. Include player's feelings on things like the legitimacy of the CSM, CCP's communication to the player's, CCP's respect for the player's desires (and of those brought to them through the CSM).
3. A player-based discussion on MT like the one they did?
4. If they agreed to fix one of the following: faction warfare, bounty hunting, or low-sec, I think the playerbase would start feeling a lot better about things.
I'm really curious about how to include the player discussion. My thought was to take quotes from the threadnarok that have meaning and incorporate them into the newsletter. Another thought was to fire the newsletter back and forth between us players and then between CCP in some organized manner that goes beyond devblogs and forums (think Twitter but without all the flaming and pony posts). What are your thoughts?
---
<Insert whitty signature here> |
Dare Knight
Minmatar
OSI Holdings
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 16:38:00 -
[22]
Originally by: The Okamik
As a gallente pilot, id also like to see an article on Hybrid turrets and gallente ships to explore the viability of Blaster and rail boats and what needs to change with them
If you don't care to give me a brief on that I'd appreciate that and will include it. At the moment I'm working on the overall brief of this past week from our ponyless perspective and prepping it for pre-release.
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<Insert whitty signature here> |
S7E
The Priesthood
The 0rphanage
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Posted - 2011.06.27 16:39:00 -
[23]
Edited by: S7E on 27/06/2011 16:43:06
Edited by: S7E on 27/06/2011 16:42:12
The only way it will work is if you get some of the more known Eve players to write up about the issues or some CSM's.
Maybe the tourney commentators will even join in, if they aren't scared of not being invited back to next years tourney (if there is one).
As well as have articles from new people, "vets", miners, pvp'rs, pve'rs, indies, manufacturers.
There is a lot of work to go into it if you want to pull it off.
And you can easily reproduce it, by simply opening the pdf in photoshop and editing from there.
Quote:
I'm really curious about how to include the player discussion. My thought was to take quotes from the threadnarok that have meaning and incorporate them into the newsletter. Another thought was to fire the newsletter back and forth between us players and then between CCP in some organized manner that goes beyond devblogs and forums (think Twitter but without all the flaming and pony posts). What are your thoughts?
I wouldnt bother with taking snippets from the threads here. They are bias and or trolls.
What to do is sift through the ****e and find the best argued topics, then contact those who sound like they know what they are talking about then take it from there.
Having 4-6 different ranged people have constructive conversation over say...aim/msn so that its cataloged with who said what.
Keep the discussions clear, and the amount of people to a minimum or it will get confusing and off topic too much.
Good Luck
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Zondrail
Formic Hive
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Posted - 2011.06.27 16:40:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Dare Knight
Originally by: Zondrail
I'd recommend:
1. Using Tippia's writings on the current issues as a guideline.
2. Include player's feelings on things like the legitimacy of the CSM, CCP's communication to the player's, CCP's respect for the player's desires (and of those brought to them through the CSM).
3. A player-based discussion on MT like the one they did?
4. If they agreed to fix one of the following: faction warfare, bounty hunting, or low-sec, I think the playerbase would start feeling a lot better about things.
I'm really curious about how to include the player discussion. My thought was to take quotes from the threadnarok that have meaning and incorporate them into the newsletter. Another thought was to fire the newsletter back and forth between us players and then between CCP in some organized manner that goes beyond devblogs and forums (think Twitter but without all the flaming and pony posts). What are your thoughts?
I'd say the most practical approach is going to be to roam and find quotes and material on the forums that represent both sides of whatever topic you are covering in a particular portion.
Yes, this means you are going to be responsible to try and have some journalistic integrity (lol, if that even exists anymore), and do justice to both sides.
Quotes aside, I'd also say there's no issue with you providing additional commentary that is also as factual as can be (perhaps try and provide a semi-objective view of how many people seem to be on each side of the fence, noting that it's only the forums and does not necessarily represent the entire playerbase).
Also, want to second that ship balancing would be another good topic (hybrids being a good topic for that if you want to be more specific).
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The Okamik
Gallente
Elitist Jerks
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Posted - 2011.06.27 16:40:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Dare Knight
Originally by: The Okamik
As a gallente pilot, id also like to see an article on Hybrid turrets and gallente ships to explore the viability of Blaster and rail boats and what needs to change with them
If you don't care to give me a brief on that I'd appreciate that and will include it. At the moment I'm working on the overall brief of this past week from our ponyless perspective and prepping it for pre-release.
ah right! got ya. Will leave that for another issue... yes, i have faith in this project :P
=][= ---------------------------------------- =][=
don't fear the reaper. Fear the guy that's gonna send you to Him |
Dare Knight
Minmatar
OSI Holdings
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 17:03:00 -
[26]
Updated the OP with a link to a "proof of concept" to relay the idea of what I'm doing more visually. Also, yes, I'm grabbing Indesign to make it prettier.
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<Insert whitty signature here> |
Natalie Cerulean
Caldari
Arekin Piggy Bank
Arekin Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.06.27 17:10:00 -
[27]
Might I ask why you put an AA jet on the cover?
Just a question just seemed sort of random.
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Dare Knight
Minmatar
OSI Holdings
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Posted - 2011.06.27 17:12:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Natalie Cerulean
Might I ask why you put an AA jet on the cover?
Just a question just seemed sort of random.
In googling for relevant pictures, I thought, "Well, the CSM are flying out there...." and that picture was one of the few high resolution photos I could find, so.... It got picked :P The connection is CSM 'flying' to Iceland.
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<Insert whitty signature here> |
Dare Knight
Minmatar
OSI Holdings
|
Posted - 2011.06.27 17:35:00 -
[29]
Bump for thought provoking discussion.
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<Insert whitty signature here> |
Dare Knight
Minmatar
OSI Holdings
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:30:00 -
[30]
I'm writing up the articles and collecting interview and comments. I'm hoping to have this thing released tomorrow afternoon.
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<Insert whitty signature here> |
Lord Viziam
GunStars
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 05:05:00 -
[31]
I think you are facing an uphill climb to get it going and accepted by the community, but with persistence and regular releases (probably quarterly) you will garner respect from the community.
Some comments:
1. the airplane graphic is not very good. This is your first newsletter. You need a more visceral graphic that will capture the community's mood. The plane, and CSM's trip to Iceland is largely irrelevant of the larger issues. A graphic from the riots, or Incarna, or NeX store would be more appropriate I think.
2. pick a theme for the issue, and get respected members of the community to comment on it. CSM members, well known forum posters, as well as bloggers, podcasters. Follow the adversarial format like Fearless. The last thing you want to do is try to cover everything.
3. need a better name. Fallout is too ambiguous and negative. It could be a good issue name. Try to find something uniquely EVE.
Anyway, good luck!
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Irie Irie Irie
Caldari
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.06.28 05:25:00 -
[32]
Originally by: CCP Fallout
I truly hope you get it off the ground and can't wait to read the first issue!
I suggest you try to get Hilmar to care about words too.
~~~
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KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force
Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2011.06.28 05:29:00 -
[33]
Emailed you. 
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Baillif
AQUILA INC
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Posted - 2011.06.28 05:31:00 -
[34]
Originally by: CCP Fallout
I truly hope you get it off the ground and can't wait to read the first issue!
Maybe someone will leak it to you...
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Khamelean
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Posted - 2011.06.28 05:43:00 -
[35]
While I love the idea of better communication between CCP and the players, I can't see how a single news letter could possibly represent the views of the entire player community. While there have been a lot of negativity flying in CCP's direction over the past week, that has not been the entire community, there has been a lot of players that have been supportive of CCP.
We already have a mechanism in place to funnel the ideas and opinions of the community in to smaller chunks that people at CCP can handle, it's called the CSM. The problem is that it is very difficult for the various members of the CSM to communicate their individual opinions without a slew of vitriolic hatred from anyone who happens to disagree. That is not to say that the CSM couldn't do a better job of communicating to the player base exactly what it is doing in situations such as these. If you happen to be of the opinion that the CSM is just a publicity stunt for CCP and that CCP doesn't take them seriously, then why do you think they would take a newsletter by players any more seriously?
I love the idea and the effort that has gone in to creating this new communication channel to CCP, but perhaps that effort could be better used to strengthen the communication channels that are already in place.
Then again if your one of the people who thinks that CCP doesn't care what it's player base is saying, then no new form of communication is going to change that.
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Dare Knight
Minmatar
OSI Holdings
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 13:30:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Khamelean
While I love the idea of better communication between CCP and the players, I can't see how a single news letter could possibly represent the views of the entire player community. While there have been a lot of negativity flying in CCP's direction over the past week, that has not been the entire community, there has been a lot of players that have been supportive of CCP.
We already have a mechanism in place to funnel the ideas and opinions of the community in to smaller chunks that people at CCP can handle, it's called the CSM. The problem is that it is very difficult for the various members of the CSM to communicate their individual opinions without a slew of vitriolic hatred from anyone who happens to disagree. That is not to say that the CSM couldn't do a better job of communicating to the player base exactly what it is doing in situations such as these. If you happen to be of the opinion that the CSM is just a publicity stunt for CCP and that CCP doesn't take them seriously, then why do you think they would take a newsletter by players any more seriously?
I love the idea and the effort that has gone in to creating this new communication channel to CCP, but perhaps that effort could be better used to strengthen the communication channels that are already in place.
Then again if your one of the people who thinks that CCP doesn't care what it's player base is saying, then no new form of communication is going to change that.
I feel like in either case, the CSM or PR guys have a LOT of information to sift through, and of 1000 posts on these forums or 10000 conversations the CSM can have, 9000 petitions, or 10000 emails, only 5-10 are meaningful. The rest are pony posts or flame. That's not to say that I haven't participated in the pony posting or flame baiting myself, as I am a player myself and have been upset by the recent events as well. However, if there is ANYTHING we can do to help communicated more clearly and concisely to the CSM or to CCP the views and opinions we have without having to have them sift through hundreds of posts containing nothing, that can only serve our purposes better than any forum, and elected official, or any other current system can.
In regard to the graphics, I have redone the format of the newsletter and am hoping to release something late today. I've been talking to a lot of people on the matter from both the community and from CCP and I hope this will make a relatively decent first edition.
For the first little bit I'm wanting this to be a weekly release until the major heat settles down, at which I would like to stick with a bi-weekly or monthly format. REGULAR communication is always helpful.
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<Insert whitty signature here> |
DeBingJos
Minmatar
Jukebox Warriors
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Posted - 2011.06.28 13:40:00 -
[37]
Good idea.
Also: use an ingame mailing list to announce new issues.
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Dare Knight
Minmatar
OSI Holdings
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 23:45:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Dare Knight on 28/06/2011 23:46:48
I posted a second version of it which I updated to be more of a print. This is again a proof of concept with updated graphics a little.
I'm trying to spend as much time as I can here with my daughter and her friend spending the night (Any parent will know what I mean here), and I WILL be releasing something official tonight.
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<Insert whitty signature here> |
Dare Knight
Minmatar
OSI Holdings
|
Posted - 2011.06.29 01:30:00 -
[39]
Updated the OP link again with the latest article content as well as a "where I'm at and what I'm doing"
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<Insert whitty signature here> |
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