Originally by: Ban Doga

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Originally by: Terminal Insanity

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In short, Give us our NeX! We want more! Let these whiners cancel their subscriptions because for each quitter, theres 5 monocle-wearing New Eden citizens who are intelligent enough to know you wont intentionally destroy the game, even for short-term profits.

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So if all is fine and dandy, why is the CSM being rushed to Iceland?
If people quitting is not a problem why even bother to react to the current situation?

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Originally by: Discrodia

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That slide is from battlefield heros.

Battlefield heros is a match-based multiplayer game. Not an MMO.

Therefor, because players are not involved in maintaining a persistent universe, forum participation is minimal.

Therefor your argument is moot.

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Originally by: Katrina Cortez

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Edited by: Katrina Cortez on 29/06/2011 03:49:15
If non-vanity items was still there stance then they would have just come out and said it.

Have you watched this?
Incarnageddon

CSM blogs -
CSM Seleene's Blog(Seleene is an ex-CCP employee as well)
Meissa Anunthiel

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Quote:

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This we have done after months of research by a group of highly competent professionals, soliciting input and perspective from thought leaders and experts in and around our industry.

And yet, a few weeks before release, they still didn't have a pricing plan to communicate to the CSM. I repeat, not that they didn't do it, they didn't HAVE it.

We went out with a decisive strategy on pricing and we will stay the course and not flip flop around or knee jerk react to the predictable.

Sooo, in essence, that says "**** you guys, you can shout all you want, we won't budge". This explains Zulu's devblog, and paints a bleak picture as far as negociation is concerned

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Originally by: Le Sabre

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Originally by: Terminal Insanity

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I've bolded the part that the 'sensible' protesters are questioning, this is directly from the link you provided.

Quote:

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So this thing is vanity items only?

Yes. We will start out with a rather limited number of items initially, carefully measuring the demand and how it impacts the economy. As time progresses, we'll gradually introduce new items and revise our strategy. We've also discussed this issue in depth with the Council of Stellar Management and will both consult with them and keep them up to date every step of the way.

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So you can see how their answer to their own question is sort of a non-answer. Personally, I couldn't care less about the vanity stuff since the game is about internet spaceships and not the dollies CCP have added. I want a definitive "No, we will never sell direct advantages for real world cash" and that's why I show up for the protests.

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Well, look at the bible, and how many ways people have interpreted its words to mean completely opposite things. You can pick apart words and twist them around, re-frame them to suit your own beliefs, and theres nothing CCP or really anyone can do to cure that.

When i read that paragraph, i see that they have agreed its vanity only, and they'll be adding new products to it. The last bit about revising their strategy? Could mean they're shutting it down. Adding completely new side to the NeX store such as paint jobs, or even removing AUR in exchange for another system etc... it could mean a million things. You've chosen to believe it means non-vanity items, and thats not really CCP's fault.

Originally by: Terminal Insanity

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Wheres the problem here? You admit it was an opinion of one employee. There are open socialists in the Canadian government, it doesn't make our whole country a socialist country. It doesn't even mean that we're headed 'down that road'.

It simply means that they are open to listening, open to ideas and suggestions, of any kind. I applaud them for allowing their employees the freedom to express themselves and their ideas so openly. The only problem is that players got hold of it and screamed bloody murder.

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Originally by: Katrina Cortez

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Edited by: Katrina Cortez on 29/06/2011 04:14:10
They did consult with the CSM on a lot of things... CCP just chose to ignore most of it.

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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Edited by: MotherMoon on 29/06/2011 04:15:07
Two Step is your CSM member is is in daily talks with CSM. You don't get to talk face to face to CCP, they do.


It was NOT on the test server. I am a test server regular. don't make **** up.


If an army general says "in my opinion I'd rather not have to follow the presidents order and just start a war for fun" it's ok becuase it's just his opinion? seriously?


The issue is they just had a huge meeting with the CSM. where they told them lots of NDA stuff. That can't tell us about. Yet they didn't tell them about a feature, not on the test server, that shouldn't of NDA anyways. It's like we didn't have a CSM.

In my opinion, cp shouldn't have to talk one on one with each player. that's a stupid idea. but if they give the player base the CSM, then they should talk to them. it's 6 people. And oddly... they do! everyday! yet it just.. happen.. to not be mentioned!


and yeah they were not talked about with the CSM over the last year. That's the whole reasons for the tipping point of rage. Do you follow anything?
http://meissaanunthiel.blogspot.com/

the CSM wasn't told anything. AT ALL. everything they were told, ended up as a lie. The CSM is upset.


and yes there are a ton of asshats that are just mad, and making useless noise. But that does not mean all of the reasonable people that are upset don't have a good point.

Don't let the asshats blind you.

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Originally by: Skex Relbore

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I sure would love to have eyes and ears in that CSM meeting, I suspect it may end up being a tad heated.

Say what you like but people like Seleena and The Mittani don't seem like the sorts to go quietly along, and people who've been made to look like fools and pawns aren't generally particularly forgiving.

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Originally by: Arias Dren

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Edited by: Arias Dren on 29/06/2011 04:30:05

Originally by: Terminal Insanity

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Wheres the problem here? You admit it was an opinion of one employee. There are open socialists in the Canadian government, it doesn't make our whole country a socialist country. It doesn't even mean that we're headed 'down that road'.

It simply means that they are open to listening, open to ideas and suggestions, of any kind. I applaud them for allowing their employees the freedom to express themselves and their ideas so openly. The only problem is that players got hold of it and screamed bloody murder.

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Terminal Dumba$$, Seleene (ex-CCP employee current member of the CSM) stated on EVE radio when the Fearless stuff leaked, that it is a company memo basically intended to get all employees on the same page about upcoming content. It is not really what Zulu said, a newsletter to encourage debate. It is merely an late-stage orientation tool to easily disseminate the Flavour of the Month mission statement employees need to psyche themselves to.

"You guys know you do this, as a company. There is no divide between strategic direction and internal messaging. The Fearless newsletter is internal 'kool-aid' that most people swallow without even a second thought. Because it's an official internal newsletter, large numbers of CCP employees assume that whatever in it is written by smart people that are in touch with the players. If 'Fearless' says something, it's obviously backed up by lots of research and must be true, right?" - Seleene.


So stop keep trolling with that old hackneyed argument you wheeling out.

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Quote:

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No pair of pants, no matter how cool, should cost the same as a new Maserati; similarly, it would be silly to buy sunglasses for my avatar and pay the same price that i would for a faction battleship.

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Originally by: Montevius Williams

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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Edited by: MotherMoon on 29/06/2011 04:15:07
Two Step is your CSM member is is in daily talks with CSM. You don't get to talk face to face to CCP, they do.


It was NOT on the test server. I am a test server regular. don't make **** up.


If an army general says "in my opinion I'd rather not have to follow the presidents order and just start a war for fun" it's ok becuase it's just his opinion? seriously?


The issue is they just had a huge meeting with the CSM. where they told them lots of NDA stuff. That can't tell us about. Yet they didn't tell them about a feature, not on the test server, that shouldn't of NDA anyways. It's like we didn't have a CSM.

In my opinion, cp shouldn't have to talk one on one with each player. that's a stupid idea. but if they give the player base the CSM, then they should talk to them. it's 6 people. And oddly... they do! everyday! yet it just.. happen.. to not be mentioned!


and yeah they were not talked about with the CSM over the last year. That's the whole reasons for the tipping point of rage. Do you follow anything?
http://meissaanunthiel.blogspot.com/

the CSM wasn't told anything. AT ALL. everything they were told, ended up as a lie. The CSM is upset.


and yes there are a ton of asshats that are just mad, and making useless noise. But that does not mean all of the reasonable people that are upset don't have a good point.

Don't let the asshats blind you.

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Actually, it was on the test server - I was there. There was actually MORE items for sale with Aur.

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Originally by: Terminal Insanity

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Originally by: Arias Dren

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Edited by: Arias Dren on 29/06/2011 04:30:05

Originally by: Terminal Insanity

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Wheres the problem here? You admit it was an opinion of one employee. There are open socialists in the Canadian government, it doesn't make our whole country a socialist country. It doesn't even mean that we're headed 'down that road'.

It simply means that they are open to listening, open to ideas and suggestions, of any kind. I applaud them for allowing their employees the freedom to express themselves and their ideas so openly. The only problem is that players got hold of it and screamed bloody murder.

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Terminal Dumba$$, Seleene (ex-CCP employee current member of the CSM) stated on EVE radio when the Fearless stuff leaked, that it is a company memo basically intended to get all employees on the same page about upcoming content. It is not really what Zulu said, a newsletter to encourage debate. It is merely an late-stage orientation tool to easily disseminate the Flavour of the Month mission statement employees need to psyche themselves to.

"You guys know you do this, as a company. There is no divide between strategic direction and internal messaging. The Fearless newsletter is internal 'kool-aid' that most people swallow without even a second thought. Because it's an official internal newsletter, large numbers of CCP employees assume that whatever in it is written by smart people that are in touch with the players. If 'Fearless' says something, it's obviously backed up by lots of research and must be true, right?" - Seleene.


So stop keep trolling with that old hackneyed argument you wheeling out.

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Because ex-employees is a good source for un-biased opinions.

So if the Fearless newsletter is only about getting everyone on the same page...

Quote:

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No pair of pants, no matter how cool, should cost the same as a new Maserati; similarly, it would be silly to buy sunglasses for my avatar and pay the same price that i would for a faction battleship.

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I guess the CCP employee didnt read the memo when setting prices in NeX...
My point being, this newsletter is not company policy, it is suggestions, ideas, floating around to spark debate and opinions.
Obviously the opinion about eyeware not costing the same as a faction battleship was ignored =P

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Originally by: RougeOperator

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Micro trans only made sense if EvE online was losing money.

But its very much the opposite. EvE online is making enough money that CCP felt they could field developing two other games.

EvE is a money maker under its sub based plan. No reason for MT other then pure greed.

This is now just them blatantly sticking it to the loyal player base and trying to bilk them for more money.

This is pure abuse of the players. If the sub model wasn't profitable I might understand the move to add MT. But This is complete crap on ever level.

Those that go along with this like its fine or that are trying to logically bargain their way out of it are rather sad as people. Only a step above the ones that simply accept it even when they know its poison.

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Originally by: Arias Dren

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Originally by: RougeOperator

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Micro trans only made sense if EvE online was losing money.

But its very much the opposite. EvE online is making enough money that CCP felt they could field developing two other games.

EvE is a money maker under its sub based plan. No reason for MT other then pure greed.

This is now just them blatantly sticking it to the loyal player base and trying to bilk them for more money.

This is pure abuse of the players. If the sub model wasn't profitable I might understand the move to add MT. But This is complete crap on ever level.

Those that go along with this like its fine or that are trying to logically bargain their way out of it are rather sad as people. Only a step above the ones that simply accept it even when they know its poison.

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Dude, it just -easier- for them to believe we're all wrong. After all, if they couldn't believe that, they would have to believe the 'alternative'. What alternative? That the developers, the caretakers of their (probably) favourite game... are committed to finding as many ways to take large amounts of their cash, and get out of having to work on ANY content that doesn't end with an increase in revenue.

I mean, come on. That may -actually- be scary to some people. Or at the very least, unpleasant to think about.

Much easier to just believe the rest of us are being "crazy".

Us crazy people.

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Originally by: RougeOperator

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Well the thing is if EvE is already profitable they could make it more so by ADDING content we want. Not trying to nickel and dime us for stuff we technically already paid for with crap no one really was dying for.

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Originally by: Arias Dren

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The -denial- is strong with this one.


PS: Point is, he knows more the content and actual company -role- of the document than you do. Sorry kiddo.

PS2: PLUS, how you can be cynical about one guy who -used- to work for CCP, yet, not be cynical about a corporation, which you dumba$$es are always saying are a money making enterprise... is hilarious. Hilarious and dumb.

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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Originally by: Montevius Williams

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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Edited by: MotherMoon on 29/06/2011 04:15:07
Two Step is your CSM member is is in daily talks with CSM. You don't get to talk face to face to CCP, they do.


It was NOT on the test server. I am a test server regular. don't make **** up.


If an army general says "in my opinion I'd rather not have to follow the presidents order and just start a war for fun" it's ok becuase it's just his opinion? seriously?


The issue is they just had a huge meeting with the CSM. where they told them lots of NDA stuff. That can't tell us about. Yet they didn't tell them about a feature, not on the test server, that shouldn't of NDA anyways. It's like we didn't have a CSM.

In my opinion, cp shouldn't have to talk one on one with each player. that's a stupid idea. but if they give the player base the CSM, then they should talk to them. it's 6 people. And oddly... they do! everyday! yet it just.. happen.. to not be mentioned!


and yeah they were not talked about with the CSM over the last year. That's the whole reasons for the tipping point of rage. Do you follow anything?
http://meissaanunthiel.blogspot.com/

the CSM wasn't told anything. AT ALL. everything they were told, ended up as a lie. The CSM is upset.


and yes there are a ton of asshats that are just mad, and making useless noise. But that does not mean all of the reasonable people that are upset don't have a good point.

Don't let the asshats blind you.

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Actually, it was on the test server - I was there. There was actually MORE items for sale with Aur.

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really? I remember everything costing 1 - 3 arurm and everyone asking what the plan was, and ccp keeping their mouth shut. but worse according to the CSM it wasn't that they were hiding it. it wasn't planned yet.

they wee even asked about it 2 days before release on live tv.

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