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Mspaine
Amarr
Eternal Guardians
Bloodbound.
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Posted - 2011.07.01 00:49:00 -
[1]
1stly - put the frigging faction tower BPC's back in game and dont sell them for cash - going ahead with this CCP will cause even more backlash than what you allready have.
Now to the main point.
Things CCP can sell for Cash that will not make the playerbase realy frigging angry:
Allow players to pay cash to have their STANDINGS reset. IE player's that mission in amarr space all their life decide they want to venture into Minmatar space without getting pewpew'd. It resets the bad standing of their choice to netural.
Sell SHIP skins - ie pink and white polka dot Domni. Make it cheap CCP - You want every man and his dog willing to fork out $4 for a custom painted ship - they'll fly it to show off - they'll get it blown up - they'll come buy another becuase it doesnt cost them $80 irl. Pricing them too expensive - wont work - ppl cant even station spin anymore to oggle their pretty painted ship. Think Smart ccp - not greedily. You'll get more cash in the long run for the pure number of sale's you'll get.
Sell the ability to allow a 2nd character to train on an Account. Price even high for all 3 char slots on an account to train at once.
If you're going to sell SP - Do it this way. A 2008 Character, that has been playing on and off untill now. They dont have a 2008-2011 full years training - but since they've lived that long - allow them to BUY the skillpoints that they missed out on when they were afk for the equivilant of the subscription cost for that time. Allow them to do it in "chunks" rather than all at once and only all at once as the option. Not everyone in eve is a rich crumpet.
Sell EMOTES. For when you release the rest of walking in station. Do you know what one of the big complaints are for people whom actualy enjoy captains quarters?
There's an ashtray on the table but they cant grab a smoke to use it.
Again - use small transactions, big ones you're just beeing a greedy bunch of tossers and the playerbase will call you out on that - and do what we do best - get angry and get even with you by trashin the name of you're game and quittign out of rage.
Anyone else have Vanity/Non game breaking sales of stuff which CCP can put on sale IF THEY GO ABOUT IT IN THE RIGHT WAY - IE - not being greedy ****s and trying to sell a Virtual Monocle for $80 irl cash.
It's called MICRO transactoin for a reason CCP. I suggest you get a dictionary and research the word Micro. And have someone there to slap you in the back of the head untill you get the point that Micro = Small sales which everyone will want to buy because the cost is small thus you make you're cash thru bulk sales.
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
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Posted - 2011.07.01 01:06:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Mspaine
Allow players to pay cash to have their STANDINGS reset.
NO
Originally by: Mspaine
Sell SHIP skins
NO
Originally by: Mspaine
Sell the ability to allow a 2nd character to train on an Account.
NO
Originally by: Mspaine
If you're going to sell SP - Do it this way. A 2008 Character, that has been playing on and off untill now. They dont have a 2008-2011 full years training - but since they've lived that long - allow them to BUY the skillpoints that they missed out on when they were afk for the equivilant of the subscription cost for that time. Allow them to do it in "chunks" rather than all at once and only all at once as the option. Not everyone in eve is a rich crumpet.
NO
Originally by: Mspaine
Sell EMOTES.
YES
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Mspaine
Amarr
Eternal Guardians
Bloodbound.
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Posted - 2011.07.01 01:34:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Mr Epeen
Originally by: Mspaine
Allow players to pay cash to have their STANDINGS reset.
NO
Originally by: Mspaine
Sell SHIP skins
NO
Originally by: Mspaine
Sell the ability to allow a 2nd character to train on an Account.
NO
Originally by: Mspaine
If you're going to sell SP - Do it this way. A 2008 Character, that has been playing on and off untill now. They dont have a 2008-2011 full years training - but since they've lived that long - allow them to BUY the skillpoints that they missed out on when they were afk for the equivilant of the subscription cost for that time. Allow them to do it in "chunks" rather than all at once and only all at once as the option. Not everyone in eve is a rich crumpet.
NO
Originally by: Mspaine
Sell EMOTES.
YES
You do realise that their current plans - the ones they are going ahead with - is to sell ships, items and skillpoints to anyone who has the cash? Yes?
Anyone will be able to buy a facion battleship, Marauder, Freighter/Jumpfreighter purely by goign to account managment, plugging in their credit card details, selecting which character and hitting the buy button.
Same applies for skillpoints. Why spend months training up a character when they can just buy 50mil SP straight from the acc management page and assign the sp to a character - buy the skillbooks then hit insta-learn on whatever they want.
It also seems they dont intend on lowering the prices to make their sales an actual "micro" transaction. Microtransactions work becuase they price is small and every man and his dog will buy it because its cheap and affordable. $80 for an eyepiece $10 for boots is laughable.
Change is coming slash allready has knocked on our front door and moved in. It's not going away - CCP's financial reports say this. What we can do is help guide CCP in a way which will help pull them out of the debt dumps by means of putting up "reasonable" things for sale at "reasonable" prices depending on the item.
At current - they dont give a toss about how the playerbase feels because the playerbase has shown them outright rage at the fact they "dare introdouce cash for items" - even if it is vanity. They are acting like any other person would when they're in debt up the arse and need to get out for the sake of their kids.
In the position that we realise nothign can be done to stop the sale of virtual items for cash from CCP - we can point them in the direction of how to do it corectly in a way that will benefit them - and keep the playerbase happy. Both sides need to be willing to give and take on this matter for it to work tho.
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Anna Maziarczyk
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Posted - 2011.07.01 01:39:00 -
[4]
Selling EMOTES is....
wow. Its just....
i dont know how to make words that represent that idea.
Who is responsible for this idea? serious.
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Randomy Andven
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Posted - 2011.07.01 01:43:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Mspaine
You do realise that their current plans - the ones they are going ahead with - is to sell ships, items and skillpoints to anyone who has the cash? Yes?
No. That's a big fat lie.
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
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Posted - 2011.07.01 01:44:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Anna Maziarczyk
Selling EMOTES is....
wow. Its just....
i dont know how to make words that represent that idea.
Who is responsible for this idea? serious.
I live for the day I can teabag some ******* in a station.
If I have to pull out a Visa card to do it, I will be first in line.
Mr Epeen 
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Mr Kidd
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Posted - 2011.07.01 01:45:00 -
[7]
How about selling......wait for it.......the CQ?
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Major Connie Chung
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2011.07.01 01:53:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Mspaine
1stly - put the frigging faction tower BPC's back in game and dont sell them for cash - going ahead with this CCP will cause even more backlash than what you allready have.
Now to the main point.
Things CCP can sell for Cash that will not make the playerbase realy frigging angry:
Allow players to pay cash to have their STANDINGS reset. IE player's that mission in amarr space all their life decide they want to venture into Minmatar space without getting pewpew'd. It resets the bad standing of their choice to netural.
Isnt the diplomacy skill used for exactly this?
Sell SHIP skins - ie pink and white polka dot Domni. Make it cheap CCP - You want every man and his dog willing to fork out $4 for a custom painted ship - they'll fly it to show off - they'll get it blown up - they'll come buy another becuase it doesnt cost them $80 irl. Pricing them too expensive - wont work - ppl cant even station spin anymore to oggle their pretty painted ship. Think Smart ccp - not greedily. You'll get more cash in the long run for the pure number of sale's you'll get.
Maybe decals but pink ships? Please go back to wow.
Sell the ability to allow a 2nd character to train on an Account. Price even high for all 3 char slots on an account to train at once.
Yes, ok we agree on something.
If you're going to sell SP - Do it this way. A 2008 Character, that has been playing on and off untill now. They dont have a 2008-2011 full years training - but since they've lived that long - allow them to BUY the skillpoints that they missed out on when they were afk for the equivilant of the subscription cost for that time. Allow them to do it in "chunks" rather than all at once and only all at once as the option. Not everyone in eve is a rich crumpet.
No.
Sell EMOTES. For when you release the rest of walking in station. Do you know what one of the big complaints are for people whom actualy enjoy captains quarters?
For money? Srsly? No.
There's an ashtray on the table but they cant grab a smoke to use it.
Again - use small transactions, big ones you're just beeing a greedy bunch of tossers and the playerbase will call you out on that - and do what we do best - get angry and get even with you by trashin the name of you're game and quittign out of rage.
Every good economics student knows this.ccp just did it wrong.
Anyone else have Vanity/Non game breaking sales of stuff which CCP can put on sale IF THEY GO ABOUT IT IN THE RIGHT WAY - IE - not being greedy ****s and trying to sell a Virtual Monocle for $80 irl cash.
It's called MICRO transactoin for a reason CCP. I suggest you get a dictionary and research the word Micro. And have someone there to slap you in the back of the head untill you get the point that Micro = Small sales which everyone will want to buy because the cost is small thus you make you're cash thru bulk sales.
Answers above.
The only idea i support are ones that dont double bill me. If you want mt, remove the monthly fee period.
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General Xenophon
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Posted - 2011.07.01 02:05:00 -
[9]
Or, just get rid of AUG altogether and just have the items on the shop be sold for crap tons of isk. So instead of 12.000 AUG convert that to ISK and sell it. People would have to buy more and sell more plex cards, and those arguing that Plex cards aren't MT would be happy, those arguing they ARE MT would be happy, and we'd just go on about our business.
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Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.07.01 02:07:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 01/07/2011 02:10:06
Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 01/07/2011 02:08:46
Originally by: General Xenophon
Or, just get rid of AUG altogether and just have the items on the shop be sold for crap tons of isk. So instead of 12.000 AUG convert that to ISK and sell it. People would have to buy more and sell more plex cards, and those arguing that Plex cards aren't MT would be happy, those arguing they ARE MT would be happy, and we'd just go on about our business.
see what i mean? the idiots only want it sugar coated and hidden from their simple minds. What you've proposed is exactly the same as what exists now. The only difference is that your implementation just masks the actual MT, which would be PLEX/GTC. Which already exists today btw.
Buy 4 PLEX for 1.6b, convert into aur and buy monocle
Buy 4 PLEX for money, sell PLEX for 1.6b, buy a monocle.
how is it any different? The only difference is it cuts CCP's wallet into the deal (which im more then happy to do, since i love this game and wish to see CCP stay in business)
You can still purchace the same items for the same ammounts of isk. You're just being a baby.
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Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc.
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Posted - 2011.07.01 02:09:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Mspaine
Originally by: Mr Epeen
Originally by: Mspaine
Allow players to pay cash to have their STANDINGS reset.
NO
Originally by: Mspaine
Sell SHIP skins
NO
Originally by: Mspaine
Sell the ability to allow a 2nd character to train on an Account.
NO
Originally by: Mspaine
If you're going to sell SP - Do it this way. A 2008 Character, that has been playing on and off untill now. They dont have a 2008-2011 full years training - but since they've lived that long - allow them to BUY the skillpoints that they missed out on when they were afk for the equivilant of the subscription cost for that time. Allow them to do it in "chunks" rather than all at once and only all at once as the option. Not everyone in eve is a rich crumpet.
NO
Originally by: Mspaine
Sell EMOTES.
YES
You do realise that their current plans - the ones they are going ahead with - is to sell ships, items and skillpoints to anyone who has the cash? Yes?
Anyone will be able to buy a facion battleship, Marauder, Freighter/Jumpfreighter purely by goign to account managment, plugging in their credit card details, selecting which character and hitting the buy button.
Same applies for skillpoints. Why spend months training up a character when they can just buy 50mil SP straight from the acc management page and assign the sp to a character - buy the skillbooks then hit insta-learn on whatever they want.
It also seems they dont intend on lowering the prices to make their sales an actual "micro" transaction. Microtransactions work becuase they price is small and every man and his dog will buy it because its cheap and affordable. $80 for an eyepiece $10 for boots is laughable.
Change is coming slash allready has knocked on our front door and moved in. It's not going away - CCP's financial reports say this. What we can do is help guide CCP in a way which will help pull them out of the debt dumps by means of putting up "reasonable" things for sale at "reasonable" prices depending on the item.
At current - they dont give a toss about how the playerbase feels because the playerbase has shown them outright rage at the fact they "dare introdouce cash for items" - even if it is vanity. They are acting like any other person would when they're in debt up the arse and need to get out for the sake of their kids.
In the position that we realise nothign can be done to stop the sale of virtual items for cash from CCP - we can point them in the direction of how to do it corectly in a way that will benefit them - and keep the playerbase happy. Both sides need to be willing to give and take on this matter for it to work tho.
The point is more than no game-affecting RMT is acceptable in whatever way.
It still feels like a knee-jerk reaction to CCP's financial problems and "Hey! Other MMO's are making lots of money with MT, lets do it too!".
"If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"
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Mspaine
Amarr
Eternal Guardians
Bloodbound.
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Posted - 2011.07.01 02:20:00 -
[12]
Most of you idiots are failing to see the point.
CCP is up to its nose in Debt. That is the entire reason for Arum ad the vanity items.
They are still up to their nose in debt - because they took the greedy mans approach to selling vanity items - they're not making much profit.
They will take the step of selling actual useable items in game for Cash - unless we can guide them in the right diretion.
Guide them doesnt mean away from the microtransactions entirely. What most of you tards dont realise - its here to stay. Like it or not - It's a necessity for life for CCP now - extra cash is what's keeping them out of the jaw's of death that is the big banks whom are chasing them for the loaned cash + interest.
Now i'll repeat this one more time for the inbred tards (Blame america for that - they'd prefer 1st cousin marriage rather than gay couple's marriage - herp derp)
Aurum for Items is not going. It's here to stay.
We - The players can help CCP - and ourselves - by realising that this new payment system is not going to dissapear - ever. But we can make it likable/to our advantage if we guide CCP with ideas.
If we do not - expect seeing Faction tower BPC's on sale for $50 each. CCP did not approach us with the origional Arum idea becuase thye knew we'd react like this.
Now we can allow them to continue making decisions on their own Re: Cash for Items because all we do is QQ and Rant/Scream with no real imput.
Or we can build a ****ing bridge - accept its here to stay - and make the most of it in ways that benefit us, and ccp - without destroying the game as we know it.
It's up to you - the players - how this ball rolls from here on in.
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Xavier Pain
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Posted - 2011.07.01 02:53:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Mspaine
Blame america for that
What does this have to do with ccp bad decisions in financial maters? Last time I checked America did not force ccp to make two new games that it cannot pay for.
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Mspaine
Amarr
Eternal Guardians
Bloodbound.
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Posted - 2011.07.01 03:02:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Xavier Pain
Originally by: Mspaine
Blame america for that
What does this have to do with ccp bad decisions in financial maters? Last time I checked America did not force ccp to make two new games that it cannot pay for.
Thankyou for making yourself an example!
If you re-read what i said - the entire paragraph was directed at the people stamping their feet and crying more than a newborn baby over the fact that microtransactions are here - and their only answer to anyones suggestion on how to make the microtransactions work is "NO $$ FOR IATMZ GET RIDZ OF IT!!!ONE!
I then proceeded to blame america's law's that allow first cousin marriage (aka inbreeding) for the reason the majority of posts are from people going "QQ NO $$ FOR IAMZ EVR!!" - as they're acting about as smart as a child from a first cousin marriage. Then pointed out also that America would prefer inbreeding, than allowing gay's to go get married.
As for you're comment about them making games they cannot pay for.
When you bought you're house (Assuming you're old enough/mature enough to be at that point in you're life) - Did you buy it in outright cash?
The answer for 99% of the population out there is a no.
How did you get you're house? You took out a loan.
The same deal runs for people investing to make computer games.
They will make the money back after they're able to start selling the product. Just currently - with the global $$ going completely into the ****ter - they've hit a snag - and are doing what we would do to cover our asses in a situation with paying off a house.
Getting a 2nd job / another line of income to help pull the weight.
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Joe Tekke
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Posted - 2011.07.01 03:05:00 -
[15]
Mspaine, whilst I agree with the point of your OP, that CCP dont need to introduce potentially game breaking items to the Nex to make $$, your point will be lost if you fall to name calling and smack talk dudette, so dont fall, stick ta your theme 
Apart from that, good post, couple of good ideas.
Joe.
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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2011.07.01 03:08:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Mspaine
1stly
I knew I would be in for a treat reading your post the second I saw you were too lazy to hit the keyboard two more times to spell out firstly...
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Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.01 03:16:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 01/07/2011 02:10:06
Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 01/07/2011 02:08:46
Originally by: General Xenophon
Or, just get rid of AUG altogether and just have the items on the shop be sold for crap tons of isk. So instead of 12.000 AUG convert that to ISK and sell it. People would have to buy more and sell more plex cards, and those arguing that Plex cards aren't MT would be happy, those arguing they ARE MT would be happy, and we'd just go on about our business.
see what i mean? the idiots only want it sugar coated and hidden from their simple minds. What you've proposed is exactly the same as what exists now. The only difference is that your implementation just masks the actual MT, which would be PLEX/GTC. Which already exists today btw.
Buy 4 PLEX for 1.6b, convert into aur and buy monocle
Buy 4 PLEX for money, sell PLEX for 1.6b, buy a monocle.
how is it any different? The only difference is it cuts CCP's wallet into the deal (which im more then happy to do, since i love this game and wish to see CCP stay in business)
You can still purchace the same items for the same ammounts of isk. You're just being a baby.
Actually there would be two major differences if aurum were not a part of the cycle, under your first scenario the Plex disappears and will never be redeemed for time or charity. In your second scenario the isk disappears while the plex is still a liability on CCP's books.
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iNfeck7ed
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Posted - 2011.07.01 03:39:00 -
[18]
MsPaine is exactly correct. Take a look around you in the mmo world. Microtransactions are the new way and no amount of refusal will stand up to profit. Taking MsPaine's conclusion for granted: because microtransactions are here to say, we must guide CCP on how to be a successful company while keeping Eve a great game to play.
I say open the flood gates. Everything that MsPaine said should be a microtransaction should go forward, and I would go further than that. I say put everything up for sale for either cash, aurum, or isk. As long as each player in Eve can choose his own method of payment for advantages, go for it. But, it must be open for purchase by in-game and real cash. This is fair, as some people absolutely don't want to pay real cash for anything, and some will dump large amounts of cash into CCP's pockets, which is a good thing! People, we want CCP to be successful. The more they profit, the more they will safeguard their investment.
The only problem that can come of this is if down the line, CCP sells any item for only real cash. Also, I think that any item that is bought for cash should be made by other players in-game. This will at least safeguard the game from a saturation of high-end items. Obviously players can't directly profit if someone buys standings, but if CCP prospers financially, they will provide everyone with a fun game worth playing for many years to come, and I believe that is essentially what everyone wants.
Cheerz!
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Mspaine
Amarr
Eternal Guardians
Bloodbound.
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Posted - 2011.07.01 05:54:00 -
[19]
Sorry for the insults - my patience with idiots that start arguing without reading what you say is now non-existant.
I disagree with them selling stuff like what they ARE GOING TO DO with the Faction towers.
Here's what CCP's plan is with that. They took it out a few patches ago. Now they're wating. When the current supply of BPC's runs thin - and the remainder's prices go thru the roof - they will introduce them again via Arum.
So players are forced to buy the BP with Arum to seed the market.
Good marketing move? Yes.
One hell of a low-life move on the part of the eve players? Hell yes.
Why are they doing this? They want more cash from microtransactions.
The step of taking items acquired thru the game - wether it be from Faction standings/LP or building from scrach - i do not like.
Why?
It changes the game playing field to "Whomever has the most cash IRL wins the game" - In terms of them being able to have a monopoly on items.
Do we realy think CCP will be reasonable with item prices when they are charging $80 for a Monocle?
Hell no!
Expect the faction tower BPC's to be around the $80 mark, if not more.
This is why we need to build a bridge Re: CCP's Arum and selling items in game. And instead of boo-hooing over the fact that it's here - start pointing CCP into the directoin we want them to go with it.
I think everyone should agree that if they sell in game items - like the faction tower BPC's - this game is royally screwd.
Instead we need to point CCP in the direction of ideas/things that will NOT tear our game apart and turn it into a who's rich wins senario - but things that everyone would be interested in getting because it's cool/nice to have - and at the same time changing their Arum model to run off "Sell bulk to make lots cash" - rather than "Sell a few for huge prices"
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Falbala
Gallente
Ishtar's Destiny
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Posted - 2011.07.01 06:03:00 -
[20]
I'll tell you what I think.
Stop Dust, make the stations and planets a F2P FPS with non vanity items, keep the space like it always been.
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Tosser Galore
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Posted - 2011.07.01 06:05:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Anna Maziarczyk
Selling EMOTES is....
wow. Its just....
i dont know how to make words that represent that idea.
Who is responsible for this idea? serious.
I blame WoW and french canadians.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2011.07.01 06:12:00 -
[22]
How to do it without backlash? You can't. No matter what form it takes, we don't want it. If that means canceling all development on Dust, GOOD. The sooner that doomed piece of **** goes away, the better.
So the only question here is how can CCP introduce microtransactions with the least backlash, and the answer is simple:
1) Absolutely no items, ever, under any circumstances, that give any kind of in-game advantage.
2) Reasonable prices ($5-10/item maximum, $1-2 for most items), not the present insanity.
-----------
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
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Posted - 2011.07.01 06:20:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Mspaine
Sorry for the insults - my patience with idiots that start arguing without reading what you say is now non-existant.
I disagree with them selling stuff like what they ARE GOING TO DO with the Faction towers.
Here's what CCP's plan is with that. They took it out a few patches ago. Now they're wating. When the current supply of BPC's runs thin - and the remainder's prices go thru the roof - they will introduce them again via Arum.
So players are forced to buy the BP with Arum to seed the market.
Good marketing move? Yes.
One hell of a low-life move on the part of the eve players? Hell yes.
Why are they doing this? They want more cash from microtransactions.
The step of taking items acquired thru the game - wether it be from Faction standings/LP or building from scrach - i do not like.
Why?
It changes the game playing field to "Whomever has the most cash IRL wins the game" - In terms of them being able to have a monopoly on items.
Do we realy think CCP will be reasonable with item prices when they are charging $80 for a Monocle?
Hell no!
Expect the faction tower BPC's to be around the $80 mark, if not more.
This is why we need to build a bridge Re: CCP's Arum and selling items in game. And instead of boo-hooing over the fact that it's here - start pointing CCP into the directoin we want them to go with it.
I think everyone should agree that if they sell in game items - like the faction tower BPC's - this game is royally screwd.
Instead we need to point CCP in the direction of ideas/things that will NOT tear our game apart and turn it into a who's rich wins senario - but things that everyone would be interested in getting because it's cool/nice to have - and at the same time changing their Arum model to run off "Sell bulk to make lots cash" - rather than "Sell a few for huge prices"
Aside from the fact that I'm sitting on a bunch of faction tower BPs and don't really care let me touch on something.
YOU may pay cash for them, just as YOU may buy GTCs to convert to plex for other in game items now.
I play for free and I will pay for any of these alleged MT only items with ISK.
So as far as I'm concerned nothing has changed.
But in general I am opposed to the things I said no to in my previous post. Most because they are game breaking and one because it's going to kill the game for those with lower end systems or lower bandwidth internet connections.
Once you are in the station, anything goes. The more crap you can buy the better. Good for us and good for CCP. But again, I personally will never have to pay cash for anything in this game again. I'm not quite yet sitting on a hundred billion but I'm pretty close.
So do I win because I have more than you? Be it cash or ISK?
NO!
For one thing YOU CAN"T WIN EVE. There is no 'win' so stop using that term. What I can do is buy more shinys than you. I can also lose more shinys than you.
So.. if these towers or any other non game breaking items can be purchased with cash and then put on the open market for ISK, I say meh vOv
Not so much different than what we have now. If they are cash only... well, TBH, I don't see that happening.
Mr Epeen
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Karthwritte
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Posted - 2011.07.01 06:27:00 -
[24]
Current trends in gaming market have already tainted the heads of many ccpers. Its the whole "new wave" now and CCP doesn't wanna loose the share of "THE" milk run its happening all around.
We have just made in this world the gaming comparable fast food. Well more like a cheap beer, still, a product that you can sell cheaply massively and have great profit runs.
-------------------------------------------------
Bio:
[b]Karthwritte was Casual EVE Player. Now its a phoney who talks about the plot of the game industry to take our whole money in |
Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.01 06:44:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Mr Epeen
Aside from the fact that I'm sitting on a bunch of faction tower BPs and don't really care let me touch on something.
YOU may pay cash for them, just as YOU may buy GTCs to convert to plex for other in game items now.
I play for free and I will pay for any of these alleged MT only items with ISK.
So as far as I'm concerned nothing has changed.
But in general I am opposed to the things I said no to in my previous post. Most because they are game breaking and one because it's going to kill the game for those with lower end systems or lower bandwidth internet connections.
Once you are in the station, anything goes. The more crap you can buy the better. Good for us and good for CCP. But again, I personally will never have to pay cash for anything in this game again. I'm not quite yet sitting on a hundred billion but I'm pretty close.
So do I win because I have more than you? Be it cash or ISK?
NO!
For one thing YOU CAN"T WIN EVE. There is no 'win' so stop using that term. What I can do is buy more shinys than you. I can also lose more shinys than you.
So.. if these towers or any other non game breaking items can be purchased with cash and then put on the open market for ISK, I say meh vOv
Not so much different than what we have now. If they are cash only... well, TBH, I don't see that happening.
Mr Epeen
Now why you gotta break character and make a rational post?
I would like to point out that you don't play for free. Just because you aren't paying your cash for it doesn't make it free. You gave ISK to someone who did pay cash for that plex in order to get that "free" play.
I swear about half the breakdown in communication is that people can't think a process more than 1 step in either direction.
Other than that I pretty much agree with what you said here.
Damn I feel dirty.
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
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Posted - 2011.07.01 07:25:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Skex Relbore
Originally by: Mr Epeen
Aside from the fact that I'm sitting on a bunch of faction tower BPs and don't really care let me touch on something.
YOU may pay cash for them, just as YOU may buy GTCs to convert to plex for other in game items now.
I play for free and I will pay for any of these alleged MT only items with ISK.
So as far as I'm concerned nothing has changed.
But in general I am opposed to the things I said no to in my previous post. Most because they are game breaking and one because it's going to kill the game for those with lower end systems or lower bandwidth internet connections.
Once you are in the station, anything goes. The more crap you can buy the better. Good for us and good for CCP. But again, I personally will never have to pay cash for anything in this game again. I'm not quite yet sitting on a hundred billion but I'm pretty close.
So do I win because I have more than you? Be it cash or ISK?
NO!
For one thing YOU CAN"T WIN EVE. There is no 'win' so stop using that term. What I can do is buy more shinys than you. I can also lose more shinys than you.
So.. if these towers or any other non game breaking items can be purchased with cash and then put on the open market for ISK, I say meh vOv
Not so much different than what we have now. If they are cash only... well, TBH, I don't see that happening.
Mr Epeen
Now why you gotta break character and make a rational post?
I would like to point out that you don't play for free. Just because you aren't paying your cash for it doesn't make it free. You gave ISK to someone who did pay cash for that plex in order to get that "free" play.
I swear about half the breakdown in communication is that people can't think a process more than 1 step in either direction.
Other than that I pretty much agree with what you said here.
Damn I feel dirty.
I said I play for free and I do. It hardly matters to me that some poor bastard had to pony up for a GTC. Well actually it does matter. Because if he didn't then I'd have to pull out the CC to pay for my game time. So don't confuse free to play with free to play for me. I understand the system. But as far as I personally am concerned EVE is a F2P game.
Back in the day, I was one of the ones adamantly opposed to plexes and to be honest, I still am. They are RMT as far as I'm concerned. But I came to terms with CCPs decision as they had what turned out to be a valid reason for it. But if you are old enough to remember how much it polarized the community, you'd realize this 'crisis' will pass pretty quickly and be accepted. Most of the the ragers who are posting now will come to terms with whatever comes out of this weekend. Plenty of folks back then were swearing they were done with EVE as well. Most are still posting. And I was jumped all over for being a hater. Even more than I'm jumped on for being a fanboi now.
*Sigh* Seems I'm always on the wrong side of an issue.
Mr Epeen
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Mspaine
Amarr
Eternal Guardians
Bloodbound.
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Posted - 2011.07.01 07:26:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
How to do it without backlash? You can't. No matter what form it takes, we don't want it. If that means canceling all development on Dust, GOOD. The sooner that doomed piece of **** goes away, the better.
So the only question here is how can CCP introduce microtransactions with the least backlash, and the answer is simple:
1) Absolutely no items, ever, under any circumstances, that give any kind of in-game advantage.
2) Reasonable prices ($5-10/item maximum, $1-2 for most items), not the present insanity.
Wow at you and that other guy who's sying just scrap dust alltogether.
In laymans terms - That's like buying a piece of land - and starting to build a house you intend to rent out to people. And when its 80% done you decide "nah stuff it" and demolishing it without saving any of the materials you just put into it.
They cant, and will not stop Dust. They are relying on Dust to finish and sell - The profits from selling the game will recover their debt and get them more profits. Noone ever makes a game without knowing/hoping that it will cover the production costs + give them profit afterwards.
Killing Dust, and WoD - would in effect be killing eve as well. This game is what - allmost 10 years old now?
You do realise that nomatter how good games are - over time they die off, and the profits once made from them dwindle. MMO's are the most expensive game to have - purely because of server maintenance fees and hardware upgrades to keep with the times/server stability - and bandwidth costs. It's not cheap, or easy to keep up and running.
CCP takes funds from eve to make Dust. Dust brings in a fresh income - which allows them to run eve for longer. And sorry to tell you this - Dust haters - the NON-eve related PS3 community is excited as all hell about Dust. you realise that all the first person shooters are just clones of eachother with different maps and if you're lucky a new weapon or two yes? The Console FPS community knows this - they yearn for something new and fun - which is exactly what dust is.
Are there realy only a handfull of people that understand how the world/basic economics work?
Why are there so many tards that chuck tantrums like they're a 4 year old who wants candy and knows they can get it even when they're told No if they cause a scene/make noise?
Welcome to being an Adult and living in the real world - having a whine/tanty fit doesnt work in the Adult/Real world. Time you wise up to the fact 
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2011.07.01 07:34:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Mspaine
In laymans terms - That's like buying a piece of land - and starting to build a house you intend to rent out to people. And when its 80% done you decide "nah stuff it" and demolishing it without saving any of the materials you just put into it.
This assumes that the income from selling the house is enough to pay for:
1) The last 20% of development.
AND
2) The lost income from wrecking your existing houses to pay to build the new one.
If the cost of those two items is greater than the 20% remaining to pay for, as I suspect it will be in the case of Dust, then you cut your losses and abandon the new project.
Quote:
Killing Dust, and WoD - would in effect be killing eve as well. This game is what - allmost 10 years old now?
Hint: EVE is producing a net profit, and continues to grow. CCP's only money problems come from wasting money developing Dust and the Twilight MMO. Cancel both of those, and CCP's income problems are solved.
Quote:
you realise that all the first person shooters are just clones of eachother with different maps and if you're lucky a new weapon or two yes?
What makes you think that Dust is going to be any different? Is is because, unlike all those other games, Dust will require you regularly pay cash for items if you want any chance of winning? Or are you just blindly assuming that because CCP promised it will be awesome it MUST be awesome and not just another generic FPS with a life expectancy measured in weeks?
Quote:
The Console FPS community knows this - they yearn for something new and fun - which is exactly what dust is.
Yeah, but talk is cheap. How many of those people will actually buy the game? How many will buy the in-game items that CCP is depending on to make a profit? How many will have a lasting attachment to the game that will survive the first patch-day disaster?
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Raknarg Valklear
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Posted - 2011.07.01 07:40:00 -
[29]
No.
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Mspaine
Amarr
Eternal Guardians
Bloodbound.
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Posted - 2011.07.01 08:00:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
This assumes that the income from selling the house is enough to pay for:
1) The last 20% of development.
AND
2) The lost income from wrecking your existing houses to pay to build the new one.
If the cost of those two items is greater than the 20% remaining to pay for, as I suspect it will be in the case of Dust, then you cut your losses and abandon the new project.
Because of what dust is - and how its linked into eve - selling the rights/work that's done off to someone else realy isnt an option at all. The flack from issues becuaes two different companies are running 1 product thats linked together would be mayhem.
Quote:
Hint: EVE is producing a net profit, and continues to grow. CCP's only money problems come from wasting money developing Dust and the Twilight MMO. Cancel both of those, and CCP's income problems are solved.
Considering they're in debt up the wazoo? No, their problems would not be solved. What do you not understand abuot the global economy is going down the pooper. Inflation is rampant, everyone is feeling this, ccp is no exception. But when it takes more money to support the same single thing - people have to branch out to secure more income. Wether it be a 2nd job IRL, or in ccps' case - another line of income - IE more games.
Quote:
What makes you think that Dust is going to be any different? Is is because, unlike all those other games, Dust will require you regularly pay cash for items if you want any chance of winning? Or are you just blindly assuming that because CCP promised it will be awesome it MUST be awesome and not just another generic FPS with a life expectancy measured in weeks?
lulz. Ever played counterstrike? If not here's a rundown for you.
At the beginning of the match you start off with say $1500. With that you buy a gun, armor and the such. You run around and play the round. Depending on how well you did in that round - how many people you killed - if you achieved certain objectives - you get more cash. Play horribly and your'e left with a base income that screws you as you cant compete with the AK47's with a Pistol.
Welcome to the take Dust has taken. The difference is - what items avaliable to you - are unlocked by warpoints - stuff you build up on the side by simply playing the game. Also the equivilant of Battlefield Bad company and other lines - you need to rack up these poitns to unlock certain kit's of weapons and armor before you can use them.
They have said they will have microtransactions for Dust - but have not said what yet.
Quote:
Yeah, but talk is cheap. How many of those people will actually buy the game? How many will buy the in-game items that CCP is depending on to make a profit? How many will have a lasting attachment to the game that will survive the first patch-day disaster?
The same ammount any other game has when its first released and had those problems?
Look at WoW. For months when it was released players were stuck with 2+ hour ques to log in - bugs and all sorts of unexpected downtime. It lost very few because of these problems? Why? People enjoyed the game, enough to wait out and be patient for the problems to be resolved.
Same applies to any other console game that's had teething issues when it's first come out/had a big content patch.
Just because you hope Dust will crash and burn - wont mean it will.
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Norian Lonark
Gallente
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.01 08:44:00 -
[31]
Mostly horrible suggestions, truly hate your SP selling idea.
I do agree with ship skins though and vanity items.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2011.07.01 08:48:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Mspaine
Because of what dust is - and how its linked into eve - selling the rights/work that's done off to someone else realy isnt an option at all.
Who said anything about selling it (besides possibly the engine)? I said CANCEL it. End it. No more Dust. Etc.
Quote:
Considering they're in debt up the wazoo?
And why is that? Because they're wasting money on Dust and Twilight. EVE produces a net profit, so if CCP only consisted of EVE, CCP would not have money problems.
Quote:
At the beginning of the match you start off with say $1500. With that you buy a gun, armor and the such. You run around and play the round. Depending on how well you did in that round - how many people you killed - if you achieved certain objectives - you get more cash. Play horribly and your'e left with a base income that screws you as you cant compete with the AK47's with a Pistol.
Except in Dust, you either get out your credit card and buy a new gun each round, or you get to go pistol vs. AK-47 and die.
Quote:
They have said they will have microtransactions for Dust - but have not said what yet.
Even if you ignore the rumors that Dust microtransactions are going to be for game-winning items, it's pretty obvious from the fact that CCP is depending on microtransactions to make Dust profitable without a subscription fee. Vanity items aren't going to fund that, so Dust is going to be pay-to-win.
Quote:
Look at WoW. For months when it was released players were stuck with 2+ hour ques to log in - bugs and all sorts of unexpected downtime. It lost very few because of these problems? Why? People enjoyed the game, enough to wait out and be patient for the problems to be resolved.
The difference is that Dust is attempting to enter a market already dominated by Halo/CoD, and without the kind of persistent world that makes MMO players put up with the issues instead of just moving on to the next game. There's a reason console FPS have poor life expectancy, and now CCP is trying to come in as an unknown AND demand regular cash item purchases to have any chance of winning? Good luck with that...
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Mspaine
Amarr
Eternal Guardians
Bloodbound.
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Posted - 2011.07.01 09:52:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Norian Lonark
Mostly horrible suggestions, truly hate your SP selling idea.
I do agree with ship skins though and vanity items.
You do realise CCP were planning on selling SP straight out - no restrictions.
That's the only reason i posted the sp for char age if they quit game and came back - they can buy the SP they would have had if they had of kept subbing, by paying the subscription cost of what they would have if they had of trained the entire time instead of quitting/unsubbing.
I would not have mentioned anything about SP otherwise - but it seems CCP have their eyes on Selling SP anyway - at least this way you wont have 1day old characters running around in Carriers.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2011.07.01 09:56:00 -
[34]
Eve should be a game where actions have consequences.
Selling standings resets would destroy this.
And this is coming from someone who can't enter Minmatar space without being shot at.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Monstress
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Posted - 2011.07.01 10:00:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Eve should be a game where actions have consequences.
Selling standings resets would destroy this.
And this is coming from someone who can't enter Minmatar space without being shot at.
I agree. A lot of thought needs to be put into things like this.
Also, people should stop assuming CCP is in financial trouble based on statements from last fiscal year.
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Nullity
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.01 10:01:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Monstress
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Eve should be a game where actions have consequences.
Selling standings resets would destroy this.
And this is coming from someone who can't enter Minmatar space without being shot at.
I agree. A lot of thought needs to be put into things like this.
Also, people should stop assuming CCP is in financial trouble based on statements from last fiscal year.
No thought needs to be put into non-vanity MTs besides the word "No."
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Mspaine
Amarr
Eternal Guardians
Bloodbound.
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Posted - 2011.07.01 10:04:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Stuff
If they were to cancel Dust they may as well go to the bank and withdraw all the cash they've spent on it - put it into a neat little pile, cover it in petrol and then light it. You may be ok with this idea, and personaly i'd love to see you go to the bank and take out your'e entire paycheck and burn it just to prove a point - but CCP, and any developer that starts to make a 2nd game would not. Dust is at the point where it's too late to stop - the money's been invested/spent - they may as well finish it and get all the money they put into making it back from sales + some profit.
No, you start off with Isk each round like counterstrike, what is avalable is limited untill you unlock stuff. Or do the micro transaction thing to unlock it if you're impatient and CBF getting into a good Dust corp that has planets owned/setup to fund their pockets.
CCP are very vague - Let's wait for them to actualy announce the bad stuff before we go raging blindly over stuff that may not even be true/happen - k?
Dust is tied into MMO - impacts the MMO as well - its not just shoot em up . There's the whole side that the dust players have to setup their planets and muck around to get their income. Which will more than likely include the dust player's ability to sell PI crap. Halo/Counterstrike/BF2142/MMO Hybrid. You dont "need" the microtransactions to get far in dust. 99% of it falls onto the hands of the players and their corps - their ability to work as a team - ensure theres variety in their loadouts (ie everyone plays Sniper Joe and looses becuase the 2nd team has bits of everything and is more capable on the battlefield)
Again, you dont need to do the microtransactions to win in dust, It will be seen moreso as the "casual player's door to get the hardcore player's gear"
You realy should just go buy a punching bag - print out some Dust Screenshots/Wallpaper art - stick it to the punching bag and let loose to get some of that unrational hate out of ya lol
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Medidranda Livoga
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Posted - 2011.07.01 10:10:00 -
[38]
Dust won`t necessarily make any profit, it can be a big loss for CCP in worst case. But I do agree they need to finish it and sell it to recoup as much investment they can.
Console FPS market is pretty FOTM-style market, games coming and going. Plenty of established competition too: Halo, Battlefield, MW and Killzone come to mind.
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Terianna Eri
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2011.07.01 10:41:00 -
[39]
Every single argument for MTs boils down to "other people are doing it, therefore its good." Sometimes it takes the form of not even an argument but just a simple insult, via "they're here, deal with it dummy."
This is a fallacious argument. The only thing MTs are good for is CCP's bottom line. They are terrible for everything else and anything new introduced with MT would be better for the game if it were released like normal content.
If you support MTs, you're a stupid, worthless sheep and you deserved to be fleeced out of as much of your money as you possibly can be, and you'll thank CCP for the privelege.
________________
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2011.07.01 11:00:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Terianna Eri
This is a fallacious argument. The only thing MTs are good for is CCP's bottom line.
The sad thing is they're not even good for CCP's bottom line in the long run. The more they emphasize MTs over new (free) content, the less appealing EVE becomes, until it reaches the end of the death spiral. It's a clear "take the money and run" approach, and I'm really sad to see the developers of such a (formerly) awesome game fall for it.
Originally by: Mspaine
Again, you dont need to do the microtransactions to win in dust, It will be seen moreso as the "casual player's door to get the hardcore player's gear"
Again, CCP's plan for making Dust profitable without a subscription fee (remember, Dust has the full server requirements of an MMO) is based on microtransactions. And the simple fact is that vanity items can't support a game like that. Paying cash to save a bit of leveling time can't support a game like that. The only thing that can keep Dust generating a significant income is for someone* to give CCP cash for items with in-game advantages. And if you don't have those advantages? Well, good luck winning.
*Whether that someone is Dust players directly, or EVE players buying their equipment.
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Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.01 14:32:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Every single argument for MTs boils down to "other people are doing it, therefore its good." Sometimes it takes the form of not even an argument but just a simple insult, via "they're here, deal with it dummy."
This is a fallacious argument. The only thing MTs are good for is CCP's bottom line. They are terrible for everything else and anything new introduced with MT would be better for the game if it were released like normal content.
If you support MTs, you're a stupid, worthless sheep and you deserved to be fleeced out of as much of your money as you possibly can be, and you'll thank CCP for the privelege.
Actually it's questionable if it will even be good for CCP's bottom line. Whether it is or not depends on how it affects peoples behavior. Some will obviously quit others will adjust their play style. If I do decide to stick around I may consolidate my accounts so I can have the money I normally pay to keep those accounts active to finance my primary characters.
Particularly if they offer something like the ability to train secondary character slots.
Another question is how much of an effect it will have on the Plex market. If the cash shop is going to excert some influence on that market and the more revenue it generates for CCP the greater that influence will be, at what point does that affect price people who are only playing because they can give someone else isk to pay for their account time?
There are just too many variables to say anything definitive at this point and honestly I suspect that CCP's projections are probably overly optimistic(these types of projections almost always are).
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.01 14:37:00 -
[42]
I'd pay for pretty clothes. Not the gray, bland crap that's currently in their store. But if they hire someone who actually knows something about designing, and they make slick, fancy threads for me to wear, I'll pay for that.
I'll also pay for ship-skins; definitely.
Monocle looks like a toy-Borg eye, though; so I'm passing up on that one.
--
"All your monies AUR belong to us." -- CCP |
TamiyaCowboy
Caldari
KRAKEN FLEET
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Posted - 2011.07.01 14:49:00 -
[43]
CCP spent to much time playing Farmville in facebrick, worked out stupid people buy silly gold coins.
CCP this is not facebook you are not zynga or whatever they called, you are CCP stop with the rubbish get with the game.
if people want micro transactions they go play facebook app's not eve-online
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Mintala Arana
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.07.01 15:43:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Mspaine
Allow players to pay cash to have their STANDINGS reset.
No. There's an ingame mechanism to deal with this (standings grinding), and the ability to buy it for cash gives those with deep wallets an advantage in that they don't need to grind. Quote:
Sell SHIP skins - ie pink and white polka dot Domni.
I would buy a "Hello Kitty" Kestrel in a heartbeat if it was cheap enough. (Note because I actually like it, just because I know how much it would annoy certain others. ) But I would prefer to buy something which would allow me to create my own skin for a ship, and would like even better if I could buy something which would allow me to create a skin and sell copies. Quote:
Sell the ability to allow a 2nd character to train on an Account. Price even high for all 3 char slots on an account to train at once.
No, and I doubt CCP will do this, as the only way they could do this is to sell the option cheaper than multiple accounts, in which case everyone would pare back their accounts. Quote:
If you're going to sell SP - Do it this way.
No. No SP sales. Quote:
Sell EMOTES.
Yes. Quote:
Sell a NOTIFICATION SERVICE. IE you pay XX on you're account - and you have the roles required to recieve Pos fuel notifications - or "you're Station/Pos/TCU/Whatever is under attack" mails. You can set it up to notify you if there's only 4 hrs on pos fuels, or 50% shields on a deployed item - so people cant greif you with text spam.
Charge extra for a computer voice to call you an warn you "You're POS in <system> is under attack by <Alliance/Corp Name> and the Shields/Armor is at XX% if your'e the type to not check the text messages.
If you mean "Add SMS notifications", umm, I don't see the point. If I can't receive EVEMail, I'm probably not going to be able to do anything about an SMS notification either, right?
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