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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 63 post(s) |
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
206
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Posted - 2012.09.18 17:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
I don't normally use missile boats because I don't like them so I'm probably wrong on this but I just checked my old T2 nano drake and it gets 400dps with 7 launchers and 2 BCUs using LR scourge. I switched my blaster ferox to use 6x 250mm rails with two MFSs and it gets 300 dps with javelin. For faction ammo I get 350 on drake ( CN scourge ) and 295 on that Ferox ( CN AM ). Even when I added third MSF it is still has less dps than Drake.
All gunnery/missile support skills at level 4.
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Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
206
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Posted - 2012.09.18 20:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
Thank you for this 'voice of reason' post Lili. |
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
206
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Posted - 2012.09.18 20:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
Proletariat Tingtango wrote:Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:Lili Lu wrote: Terrible, meandering, disingenuous post
Thank you for this ' useless wall of text' post Lili. English must be your second language so i fixed that for you
You seem to be mad over something. |
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
207
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Posted - 2012.09.19 12:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Laura Dexx wrote:What do you mean I have to make choices? I can't have tank, range, sustained damage and alpha damage in one ship anymore?
Of course you can.
For the next three months at least.
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Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
207
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Posted - 2012.09.19 13:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Callidus Dux wrote:Terrorfrodo wrote:Michael Harari wrote:I have corpmates who have like 15M sp in missiles, and all their spaceship command in caldari. They are 100% ******, since skills wont get reimbursed. What will they not be able to do after the nerf that they can do now? Flying missions against TD's AND Defender using NPC's?
Just out of curiosity because I don't do missions myself. What rats are using those TDs? |
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
207
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Posted - 2012.09.19 13:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
Onictus wrote:Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:Callidus Dux wrote:Terrorfrodo wrote:Michael Harari wrote:I have corpmates who have like 15M sp in missiles, and all their spaceship command in caldari. They are 100% ******, since skills wont get reimbursed. What will they not be able to do after the nerf that they can do now? Flying missions against TD's AND Defender using NPC's? Just out of curiosity because I don't do missions myself. What rats are using those TDs? Sansha, they use both.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think there are :
1 Gallente 2 Amarr 3 Caldari 4 Minmatar 5 Blood 6 Serpentis 7 Guristas 8 Angel 9 Mercenary 10 FON 11 Drones 12 Khanid 13 Mordu 14 Thukker 15 Sansha
Its like ~6% of mission rats. Doesn't seem like a problem but then again I don't do missions so I might be wrong and it has much bigger actual impact. |
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
207
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Posted - 2012.09.19 13:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Callidus Dux wrote:MIrple wrote: Will your skills still allow you to use missiles and the only Missile that is getting nerfed is the HM so yes its a pretty even skill train match up. Heavy Missile V High Speed Maneuvering V don't see how this is all that different.
You missed that TD will affect Missiles. THIS in combination with defenders and smartbombs leads to a destruction of missiles as a whole weapon system!
If only we could see those smartbombing anti-missile firewalling ships outside of null warefare If only we could see someone, who actually uses defenders If only you could fit one of those TEs/TCs on your missile boats just like all other boats had to do all this time
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Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
207
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Posted - 2012.09.19 13:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Warde Guildencrantz wrote: Yes, but you can fix that by piloting, you can't with missiles. You just do less damage.
That is the main difference between missiles and turrets. Missiles are easier because transversal is irrelevant. You don't have control over it. There is a reason why missile boats are considered noob friendly compared to turret boats. You can't get the same maximal effectiveness from both turrets and missiles if the latter involves less skill and effort ( things which are essential for manual piloting ).
Giving you the ability to actually influence this factor ( through piloting ) would need a total rework of missiles. |
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
207
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Posted - 2012.09.19 14:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
Spugg Galdon wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote: Why are you expanding Tracking Disruptors instead of fixing defenders? We had been working on fixing defenders, but the issue was that they caused a very high amount of lag between their own CPU load and the changes in behavior they would cause.
I had a horrible feeling that this was the case. It's a shame but are there any other possibilities like scrapping defender missiles for a point defense system based on turrets? It could simply be a chance based system of shooting missiles and drones down with a nice animation/effect in game. Either that or I would fully support there being two separate weapon disruption modules (ie. a Turret Disruptor and a Missile Disruptor).
For missiles it would be ok but leave them drones alone. They can already be easily killed by anything : other drones, missiles, turrets and smartbombs. Additionally they can be webbed and then it's like instapop. |
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
207
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Posted - 2012.09.19 15:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
DJ P0N-3 wrote:All right, here's a very rough comparison of HMLs to their short range and long range contenders. Everything is influenced by ship stats, I haven't run the numbers of how it stacks up vs. new HML stats, but I used Scourge Fury instead of CN Scourge! I also looked at how HAM boats compare to pulses/blasters/ACs right now.
Harbinger: 7x heavy pulse laser II, 3x heat sink II, 2x TE II, conflagration, all 5s: 671 DPS, 9.75km optimal+8.19km falloff Hurricane: 6x 425mm AC II, 2x HAM II, 3x gyrostabilizer II, 2x TE II, hail and scourge rage, all 5s: 769 DPS, 1.5km optimal + 14.8km falloff/~17km HAM range (will be subject to modification by TEs after patch). Brutix: 7x heavy neutron blaster II, 3x magnetic field stabilizer II, 1x TE II, void, all 5s: 822 DPS, 3.88km optimal + 4.06km falloff Drake: 7x HAM II, 3x BCS II, scourge rage, all 5s: 578 DPS, ~17km HAM range.
Add in that HAMs require some amount of chasing down one's target and pouncing on them with webs and target painters for DPS resembling what it says on paper, and it looks an awful lot like HAMs need a little love.
The fact that one can compare HMLs at all to pulse lasers/ACs/blasters speaks for itself, really:
Harbinger: 7x focused medium pulse laser II, 2x heat sink II, conflagration, all 5s: 516 DPS, 6.75km + 3.75km falloff Hurricane 1: (N.B. before the PG nerf, one could fit a 1600mm plate with 425s and HAMs, but this will no longer be the case without fitting mods, so I will look at 220s instead) 6x 220mm AC IIs, 2x HAM IIs, 2x gyrostabilizer IIs, hail/scourge fury, all 5s: 663 DPS, 1.35km + 8.25km falloff Alternately, one could eschew using the missile slots and fit 6 425mm ACs: Hurricane 2: 6x 425mm AC IIs, 2x gyrostabilizer IIs, hail, all 5s: 613 DPS, 1.5km + 9km falloff Brutix: 7x heavy ion blaster II, 2x magnetic field stabilizer II, void, all 5s: 685 DPS, 2.81km + 2.5km falloff Drake: 7x heavy missile launcher II, 2x BCS II, scourge fury, all 5s: 411 DPS, ~73 km range.
You can also compare the HAM Drake to this lineup, where on paper it looks like it should belong, but...well...HAMs.
For long-range comparison, this is how the Drake stacks up against some exaggerated sniper fits.
Harbinger: 7x heavy beam laser II, 3x heat sink II, 2x TE II, 1x TC II (optimal range), all 5s: GLEAM: 1395 alpha, 323 DPS, 10.6km + 19.2km falloff; AURORA: 797 alpha, 184 DPS, 76.2km + 19.2km falloff. (N.B. while you can currently squeeze HML IIs onto a snipercane, the PG nerf will make this a lot harder, so I'll set aside this possibility for now. Further, after the nerf, a full rack of 720mms will require some fitting implants. I'll look at 720mms and 650mms.) Hurricane 1: 6x 720mm artillery II, 3x gyrostabilizer, 2x TE II, 1x TC II (optimal range), all 5s: QUAKE: 4015 alpha, 486 DPS, 10.6km + 42km falloff; TREMOR: 2294 alpha, 278 DPS, 76.2km + 42km falloff. Hurricane 2: 6x 650mm artillery II, 3x gyrostabilizer, 2x TE II, 1x TC II (optimal range), all 5s: QUAKE: 2327 alpha, 442 DPS, 8.52km + 42km falloff; TREMOR: 1330 alpha, 253 DPS, 61.3km + 42km falloff Brutix: 7x 250mm railgun II, 3x magnetic field stabilizer II, 1x TE II, 1x TC II (optimal range), all 5s: JAVELIN: 1777 alpha, 506 DPS, 11.7km + 24.6km falloff; SPIKE: 1016 alpha, 289 DPS, 84.2km + 24.6km falloff. Drake: 7x heavy missile launcher II, 3x BCS II, scourge fury, all 5s: 2919 alpha, 462 DPS, ~73 km range.
Someone else can dump all the raw numbers into a spreadsheet and spreadsheet warrior. I just used pyfa.
For the love of God. If you are going to presents lots of numbers then at least use *some* formatting. |
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Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
207
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Posted - 2012.09.19 15:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
DJ P0N-3 wrote:I tried, the forums were terribad at formatting, so I just gave up. Sorry.
DJ P0N-3 wrote:All right, here's a very rough comparison of HMLs to their short range and long range contenders. Everything is influenced by ship stats, I haven't run the numbers of how it stacks up vs. new HML stats, but I used Scourge Fury instead of CN Scourge! I also looked at how HAM boats compare to pulses/blasters/ACs right now.
Harbinger: 7x heavy pulse laser II, 3x heat sink II, 2x TE II, conflagration, all 5s: Hurricane: 6x 425mm AC II, 2x HAM II, 3x gyrostabilizer II, 2x TE II, hail and scourge rage, all 5s: Brutix: 7x heavy neutron blaster II, 3x magnetic field stabilizer II, 1x TE II, void, all 5s: Drake: 7x HAM II, 3x BCS II, scourge rage, all 5s:
Harbinger...671 DPS, 9.75km optimal + 8.19km falloff Hurricane...769 DPS, 1.5km optimal + 14.8km falloff/~17km HAM range (will be subject to modification by TEs after patch). Brutix.........822 DPS, 3.88km optimal + 4.06km falloff Drake........578 DPS, ~17km HAM range.
Maybe try something like this. Its much more readable. |
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
207
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Posted - 2012.09.19 16:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
Aprudena Gist wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote: The damage per second of heavy missile ships like the Drake seems low, why are you making it even lower?[/b] I believe the main source of disagreement here comes from comparisons between Heavy Missiles (a long range weapon platform) and short range weapons like autocannons or blasters. Once upon a time Heavy Missiles were the only medium missile system, and therefore shared features from both close range and long range weapons. Later Heavy Assault Missiles were introduced and were quite good, but Heavy Missiles still overshadowed them since they did similar damage at close range and HMs had the advantage of steller long range performance. There are legitimate problems with many long range weapon systems at the medium size, but the fact that people have gotten used to comparing Heavy Missiles with short range guns should be taken as one of the signs that Heavies are far too good.
HAMs are not good they are ****. They move slow they have slow explosion speed and can't hit a target if its actually moving unlike the rest of the weapon systems. HAMs are also too hard to fit on a ship properly they should be easier to fit then heavy missiles but they are not. Quote: Harbinger: 7x heavy pulse laser II, 3x heat sink II, 2x TE II, conflagration, all 5s: Hurricane: 6x 425mm AC II, 2x HAM II, 3x gyrostabilizer II, 2x TE II, hail and scourge rage, all 5s: Brutix: 7x heavy neutron blaster II, 3x magnetic field stabilizer II, 1x TE II, void, all 5s: Drake: 7x HAM II, 3x BCS II, scourge rage, all 5s:
Harbinger...671 DPS, 9.75km optimal + 8.19km falloff Hurricane...769 DPS, 1.5km optimal + 14.8km falloff/~17km HAM range (will be subject to modification by TEs after patch). Brutix.........822 DPS, 3.88km optimal + 4.06km falloff Drake........578 DPS, ~17km HAM range.
Heavy missiles right now are **** compared to properly fit long range weapon systems on double bonused ships like hurricanes and you are making them even worse. The Biggest ******* thing you idiots dont seem to be factoring in is that all the gun ships have double weapon systems roles on ships and missiles ones are lucky if they have 1 ship bonus to them. The biggest things you idiots that are redesigning missiles need to do is make the ******* tech 2 ammo work like guns. 1 short range higher damage then the rest of the ammo. This isn't true for a lot of the missile systems. 1 Longer range medium damage. Like pulse, aurora, spike. These dont even exist why are the weapon systems treaded differently. That needs to apply to all missile systems if you are nerfing the ******* range. The reason the range is longer on them is because they dont have range increasing ammo, mods or anything so **** you if you make this change and dont make the weapon systems equal. Also **** you for nerfing **** instead of making other ones equal to these ones as a base line. Stop nerfing decent ships just because other ones are **** fix them make them all good.
Too many F-words. You should really learn to voice your opinion in a more appropriate way. Seriously, it can be done without all those asterixes cluttering the view. |
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
207
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Posted - 2012.09.19 16:26:00 -
[13] - Quote
Aprudena Gist wrote: Eat a ****.
See only one naughty word now ( down from nine ). You are improving, keep up the good work. |
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
207
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Posted - 2012.09.19 18:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
S4nn4 wrote: * It's assumed that a scripted TD will increase the explosion radius with +50.25%.
The problem with assumptions is that they are....assumptions. Fozzie already said that TDs will probably have weaker effect on missiles than they have on guns. |
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
208
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Posted - 2012.09.19 19:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote:Wrong. Both on your interpretation of what i have typed, and on what it is I am saying. And also because part of what i'm trying to get accross was merely implied, because i thought (foolishly) that it would be read by intelligent, literate people, who would see where I was going .... my bad . The raw unskilled data has an ERROR in it, and looking at that data has highlighted it. The error is specifically in the data for heavy missiles ...... in that they are not balanced at a BASIC level in line with other medium weapons. When the game takes that erroneous data and then modifies it by your skills, and your then by Ship Modifiers, and your finally by your fitting modifiers it has compounded that initial error several times, by multiple factors. Fix the basic error, then look at what needs to be changed in Module/Ship Modifiers, and skill bonus modifiers, if at all by that point. See where I was going now ....... I AM saying heavy missiles are broken .... but for a totally different reason to you.
You simply don't understand how heavy missiles work. You compare them directly to guns, which in the case of base stats ( considering ammo types ) is wrong.
Guns get - long range, weaker damage ammo - short range, better damage ammo + slightly better tracking
Missiles get - long range, medium damage ammo ( applicable in full range ) - short range precision ammo intended to hit small targets
Gun boats can compensate for speed/sig with piloting while missiles boats cant so you need to have ammo, which makes it easier to hit smaller targets. That ammo ( precision ) cannot be stronger for obvious reasons. |
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
209
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Posted - 2012.09.19 19:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
shezz wrote:Missiles... suck more than ever now. Pro. Well Done.
Commencing a slow hand clap.
Was the drake OP or something? 300 dps too much?
Well you know them CCP Devs, they like to nerf that, which is terribly underused. |
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
209
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Posted - 2012.09.19 19:34:00 -
[17] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:
Gun boats can compensate for speed/sig with piloting while missiles boats cant so you need to have ammo, which makes it easier to hit smaller targets. That ammo ( precision ) cannot be stronger for obvious reasons.
You would have a point if it wasn't for the fact that HML don't have too many issues hitting small things.
You are right of course. I should clarify that what I meant was : "They *should* work like that"
EDIT : Just remembered that one horrible night when my Ishkur was so painfully raped by HML Tengu from 80kms in just three volleys. |
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
210
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Posted - 2012.09.19 20:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
Vizas Mar wrote: Just wanna say to CCP FFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU
Thank you for your meaningful contribution. |
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
212
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Posted - 2012.09.20 07:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
Katharina B wrote:If CCP is changing TD to have an effect against missiles; CCP MUST delete defender missiles. If they do not do this the most missions will be unplayable for Caldari Pilots!
How so? Aren't Sansha the only rats that TD you in missions? That's about 6% of mission rats. 6% =/= most
Stop exaggerating. |
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
212
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Posted - 2012.09.20 07:33:00 -
[20] - Quote
OT Smithers wrote:Hurricane: 720mm 2 TEs, 2 Gyros
RF PP = 426 dps (19 + 36km total: 55km) instant alpha: 3744 Tremor 247dps (70+36km total: 106km) instant alpha: 2170
Harbinger: HB Laser II, 2 TE, 2 Heats Sinks IN MF = 468dps (19+16km total: 35km) instant alpha: 1664 Aurora = 271dps (70+16km) instant alpha: 953
Brutix: 250mm Rails, 2 MFS, 2 TEs CN Antimatter = 444 dps (23km + 25km, total: 48km) instant alpha: 1657 Spike = 257dps (84+25km total: 109km) instant alpha: 961
Drake: HMs, 2 BCU CN Scourge = 368 dps, 84km missile travel distance, Delayed Volley: 2474
Well done.
Gun boats - 2x damage mods + 2xtracking mods == 4 mods Drake - 2x damage mod == 2 mods
4 mods >> 2 mods |
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Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
212
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Posted - 2012.09.20 07:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
Katharina B wrote:Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:Katharina B wrote:If CCP is changing TD to have an effect against missiles; CCP MUST delete defender missiles. If they do not do this the most missions will be unplayable for Caldari Pilots!
How so? Aren't Sansha the only rats that TD you in missions? That's about 6% of mission rats. 6% =/= most Stop exaggerating. The fact that you do not know what I am doing and how am I doing it says everything. Abandon all mission against highsec and consider to fly in a space with mainly sanshas than come on with your 6%.
You said : "most missions will be unplayable for Caldari Pilots". Are you speaking for all Caldari pilots? |
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
212
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Posted - 2012.09.20 07:44:00 -
[22] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote: He was comparing typical fits. It's common for the above ships to use two tracking mods. The reason it's not on the Drake is because, well, said tracking mods would be the rigs which are instead used for tank.
What rigs would you have used in this comparison? |
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
212
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Posted - 2012.09.20 09:39:00 -
[23] - Quote
kalbrak Jr wrote:I would like to see new modules for missiles that increase flight time, explosion radius and explosion velocity.
What's wrong with TEs and TCs affecting those stats?
kalbrak Jr wrote:They should use the same missile skills the effect the same stats. There should also be two new scripts for tracking disruptors that disrupt missiles. These scripts should use a new skill.
I would be ok with additional skill for missile disruption. Leave 'Weapon Disruption' skill as it is and add 'Missile Destabilization' ( equivalent of 'Turret Destabilization' skill ). |
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
213
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Posted - 2012.09.20 11:46:00 -
[24] - Quote
kalbrak Jr wrote:Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:kalbrak Jr wrote:I would like to see new modules for missiles that increase flight time, explosion radius and explosion velocity.
What's wrong with TEs and TCs affecting those stats? kalbrak Jr wrote:They should use the same missile skills the effect the same stats. There should also be two new scripts for tracking disruptors that disrupt missiles. These scripts should use a new skill.
I would be ok with additional skill for missile disruption. Leave 'Weapon Disruption' skill as it is and add 'Missile Destabilization' ( equivalent of 'Turret Destabilization' skill ). Those are for turrets using gunnery skills. There should be ones for missiles using missile skills.
Actually TE requires only 'Weapon Upgrades' skill, which also affects missile launchers so it's not limited to guns.
There would be no point in splitting those mods between missiles and guns if you make TDs affect both. Either make two versions of TDs and TEs/TCs ( one for guns and one for missiles ) or stick to one.
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Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
214
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Posted - 2012.09.20 13:57:00 -
[25] - Quote
deart laves wrote:Missions aren't really worth it as is
That's probably the reason why EvE suffers from mission runner shortage.
deart laves wrote:and the best thing to my knowledge is using a missile boat for missions.
Aren't the Machariel and Nightmare considered to be the best mission boats while missile boats are just easier?
deart laves wrote: and why is it when missile boats get a damage bonus it's only towards racial damage types
Kestrel getting 5% bonus to damage of all missiles Carcal getting 5% bonus to ROF
You should probably read more before posting.
deart laves wrote: but minmatar which can also switch damage types (though not as specific) get's a general damage bonus?
Because they are limited to one damage type on T2 ammo unlike missiles? |
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
214
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Posted - 2012.09.20 14:33:00 -
[26] - Quote
Okarina wrote:I don't like the "tweak" of my favourite Hurricane, beacause compared to the Cyclone it already has: - smaller Dronebay/Bandwith 30(40) - smaller shield Capacity 4297(4395) - (passive tanking) - smaller CPU 400(425)
The stronger Armor and the Extra Low-Slot (you might need to use for Reactor control Unit after the tweak) don't make this ship a Tier 2 ship anymore compared to the Cyclone (my opinion).
It does make more damage, but I find the Powergrid decrease (to 1125) way under the Cyclone Powergrid (1210) to be badly thought over.
To replace a Heavy Missle Launcher (100 Powergrid) with An 720mm Artillery Cannon (250 Powergrid/225 Powergrid after the Tweak) requires around 125 Powergrid. That is Exactly the Powergrid the Hurrican has more than the Cyclone (at the moment). And, being a Armor Tanker, it might need to reduce it's Gunpower already to fit needed Armor repairers.
I'd be better (wanting to decrease it's gunpower) to take away the Projectil Damage+, increase the rate of fire+, and give it another bonus making it a unique Tier 2 Battlecruiser (which in my opinion, it already is).
+ 7,5% bonus to Medium Turret rate of fire per level
and something else like + 5% bonus max velocity per level (like the stabber) + 10% bonus Medium Turret ammo capacity per level + 10% bonus Medium Turret falloff range + 5% bonus Medium Turret tracking speed + 5% Missle launcher rate of fire (it does have 3 Launcher hardpoints)
..............
For a moment I thought you were being serious. |
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
214
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Posted - 2012.09.20 14:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
HELLBOUNDMAN wrote:Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:deart laves wrote: and why is it when missile boats get a damage bonus it's only towards racial damage types
Kestrel getting 5% bonus to damage of all missiles Carcal getting 5% bonus to ROF You should probably read more before posting. There are actually quite a few missile boats limited one damage type. bombers of course with reason but also Tengu - Tengu offensive "Accelerated Ejection Bay" - 5% bonus to kinetic missile damage (there are 3 other offensive subs that don't get a kinetic bonus, but also don't get as much dps) (not including all damage buffs, just specifically where is shows a damage type making that damage type more dps) Drake - 5% bonus kinetic damage of heavy missiles and heavy assault missiles per level Caracal - 5% bonus Kinetic Missile Damage Caracal Navy - 5% bonus Kinetic Missile Damage Cerberus - 5% bonus to Kinetic Missile damage Onyx - 5% bonus to Kinetic Missile damage Nighthawk - 5% bonus to heavy missile Kinetic damage Flycatcher - 5% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile kinetic damage per level Condor - 5% bonus to light missile and rocket kinetic damage Heron - 5% bonus kinetic missile damage per level Kestrel - 10% bonus to Kinetic missile damage and 5% bonus to EM, Explosive, and Thermal missile damage per level Caldari Navy Hookbill - 20% bonus to Kinetic missile damage, 10% bonus to EM, Explosive, and Thermal missile damage per level Hawk - 10% bonus to Missile Kinetic Damage per level Buzzard - 5% bonus to Missile Kinetic Damage per level Crow - 10% bonus to Kinetic Missile damage per level Phoenix - 5% bonus to kinetic missile damage Leviathan - 125% bonus to Citadel Missile kinetic damage per level "These aren't the missile boats you're looking for"
:facepalm:
It's not about what bonuses those boats get now. It's about what bonuses will they get throughout rebalancing process.
Caldari are getting their kinetic-only bonus changed to rof or omni-damage bonus. Just like those two ships ( Kestrel and Carcal ). They currently have only kinetic damage bonus but it is being changed to rof or omni bonus. |
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
215
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:17:00 -
[28] - Quote
2004? Really? You *do* know that some mechanics have changed in those last 8 years.
Maybe try something more recent : http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Missiles
Quote:As missiles do not have tracking speeds, a missile launched at a target will do the same damage if the target's speed remains the same. In other words, the damage dealt to a target orbiting the launcher at 300m/s and a target flying directly at the launcher at 300m/s will be exactly the same. |
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
215
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:31:00 -
[29] - Quote
Doddy wrote: On the other hand he has reminded me about old school missiles that could catch a target but were not agile enough to hit them and did the crazy zig-zag pattern missing behind them until thier flight time elapsed (inty being chased by cruise for example). glory days.
That must have been funny sight Sometimes I really regret unsubbing 8 years ago. |
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
216
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:38:00 -
[30] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Signal11th wrote:Anabaric wrote:Reading through the complaints, and praise both seem pretty equal in numbers... CCP must be doing something right. You wouldn't be a politician in real life would you?? The OP has got so far 58 likes in a thread that contains nearly 2000 posts. Say what? How on earth is a conversation with 2000 posts directly comparable to the number of likes on the original post? Tell you what, I'll buy your house from you for 20 shiny nickels. After all, 20 is far more than 1 isn't it?
Don't be so hard on him. He just sucks at math. |
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Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
216
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Posted - 2012.09.20 16:29:00 -
[31] - Quote
Oleszka wrote:I have a quastion about the effect of skills.
If we learn gunnery skills like "Rapid Fireing", this skill effects all Turret kinds but if we skill only missiles "Rapid Launcher", this is only effecting missiles, but the collection of turrets is much bigger than the collection of launchers, so you punish the caldari characters and all players which are skilling missiles.
in my opinion you are damaging more with you rebalancing idea than you try to fix.
btw. we have two different typs of skill trees in weapons but gunnery skills are good for all factions and missiles are only effecting more caldari ships. That means player which are skilling caldari ships need much more time to fly other ships(like Amarr, Gallente and Minmatar).
... and if you apply the effect of TDs to missiles you have to apply the effect of the "Rapid Launcher" Skill on Turrets and cancel all missile skills beause there is no difference any more!
why in hell you dont make the defender missile more effectiv, dose you great statistic not say no one is using it?
1) You don't need to train level 5 in smaller missile launcher in order to get to the bigger. You can train directly to heavy/assault/cruise/torpedoes. Turrets are different. In order to get to the T2 medium turrets you need to train level 5 in small turret and specialization skill at level 4.
2) You get weapon system with fully selectable damage with both T1 and T2 ammo while turret systems don't ( only Minmatar get selectable damage with T1 ammo but it's not 100% one damage type like missiles ). That means you can get maximal effectiveness in pve ( you select type of damage that is most suitable to rats you are fighting ) and pvp. Other races have serious limitations in that area.
3) Other races need to train missiles too ( for bombers and several other ships ). Minmatar are quite heavy reliant on missiles. In addition all races but Caldari also need serious drone training ( including T2 heavy and sentry for some ships ) while your missile boats don't need them ( you are ok with T2 light/medium drones ).
Try to see bigger picture. |
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
218
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 18:02:00 -
[32] - Quote
Terik Deatharbingr wrote: But the Drake and the Tengu are still limited to kinetic considering the damage bonuses they currently have.
Which is apparently changing and Caldari boats are getting rof/omni damage bonus instead of kinetic only.
Terik Deatharbingr wrote: Bigger Picture for skill training: While yes, it is quicker to get into T2 Heavies.....HOWEVER:
To take a raw toon with with no implants and no remap, it would take 367 days to get HM, HAM, Cruise and Torps to lvl 5 specialization and all the support skills...no love to Light Missiles and Torps
To take a raw toon with no implants and no remap, it would take 349 days to get PERFECT Gun specializations of both types for Lasers or Hybrids, less for Projectiles as you don't need controlled burst
Maybe let's try something more realistic.
In order to get good cruise/hm/assault/torp Caldari missile skills level 4 spec + support you need 98days on typical toon ( +3 implants and proper remap )
In order to get small/medium/large turret skills for one racial turret level 4 spec + support and 2xsupport on level 5 ( rank 2 ) which are prerequisites for large turret specs you need 89days on the same toon
You want to get into drake with T2 missiles? You can do it much faster than any other race could with their battlecruisers and T2 guns.
You want to get into Raven/Navy Scorp? You don't need any turret training and you only need basic drone training because you mostly relay on missiles and light drones. Gallente needs both turrets and drones training for all battleships. Minmatar needs turrets+missiles or turrets+missiles+drones or turrets+drones on their battleships. Amarr needs turrets+drones to use Geddon ( other battleships are less demanding in terms weapons but that is one exception )
In the end you need more skill training than just turrets to make those races effective while Caldari can do that with missiles and T2 light drones. |
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
219
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 19:22:00 -
[33] - Quote
Nuff said |
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
220
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 19:52:00 -
[34] - Quote
Ark Anhammar wrote: Yes. This. I will marry you!
Hey I was first |
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
221
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 20:36:00 -
[35] - Quote
I think I'll go with the latter for now |
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
221
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 20:47:00 -
[36] - Quote
Wpolo wrote:...realistic....I used EFT
Wpolo wrote: hurricane ---------------------------------- Ferox
Tier 1 vs Tier 2?
Wpolo wrote: 5- Ferox need one more turret bay. 6- HM disntace are in balance (acording with the large weapons). Don't change.
5 - no 6- comparing medium weapon with large weapon ?
Wpolo wrote: About TD, please if you are treating missile as gunnery do it fully. Mods that boost range, sig ex and sig res (as tracking). It is hard to counter TD in missile with rigs (and just the range).
Maybe read the OP before posting. |
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
223
|
Posted - 2012.09.21 07:29:00 -
[37] - Quote
Maybe let's try something like this :
Tracking Disruptor stays the same. New Missile Tracking Disruptor ( Ballistics Disruptor ) to affect missiles ( no need for new scripts, the ones used in TD will do ). New Weapon Tracking Disruptor to affect both but just like multi-spec ECM it will be weaker than TD is now ( no need for new scripts ).
Tracking Enhancer/Computer stays the same. New Missile Tracking Enhancer/Computer ( Ballistic Control Enhancer/Computer ) to affect missiles ( scripts stay the same ). New Weapon Tracking Enhancer/Computer, which will affect both but it will be weaker ( used on split weapon boats, same scripts ).
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Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
226
|
Posted - 2012.09.23 18:33:00 -
[38] - Quote
Master Dumi wrote: Even now the DPS of the Drake is LOW, lower than other races BC.
Master Dumi wrote: after the Gallente major Buff,
Master Dumi wrote: Caldari will be useless.
Master Dumi wrote: This nerf will destroy Caldari Pilots !!
You should rename your character to "Master Dumbi". It will be more in line with your posting and reasoning skills. |
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