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HELLBOUNDMAN
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Posted - 2011.07.13 15:56:00 -
[1]
Simple,
I don't really buy stuff off the LP store, so how about letting me just straight up trade my LP for more isk... Maybe even more rep with the faction?
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Velicitia
Open Designs
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Posted - 2011.07.13 16:04:00 -
[2]
buy stuff from LP store -> sell for ISK. =========================
Originally by: CCP Games, 2010 Creation is so precious; and greed, so destructive. Your choices can make a diference
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HELLBOUNDMAN
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Posted - 2011.07.13 16:52:00 -
[3]
If you buy stuff at the LP store you also have to pay isk and a lot of times dog tags and other items as well..
I don't need anything from the LP store and don't want to have to spend isk to buy an item to sell for isk. I also don't wanna have to hunt down the dog tags for other items.
Therefore, simple LP to isk trade off.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.07.13 17:45:00 -
[4]
Amazing that someone as lazy as you must be even has any LP to your name .. or did you just fleet with someone who did all the work?
Instant gratification can be had in spades in most other games, not in Eve. If that is what you want then look elsewhere.
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HELLBOUNDMAN
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Posted - 2011.07.13 17:47:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Amazing that someone as lazy as you must be even has any LP to your name .. or did you just fleet with someone who did all the work?
Instant gratification can be had in spades in most other games, not in Eve. If that is what you want then look elsewhere.
lol, ehh. Players have the option to take original blue prints and make copies to sell, or they can go the harder way and actually build the items to sell.
Not much different than that.
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Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.07.13 17:52:00 -
[6]
Originally by: HELLBOUNDMAN Simple,
I don't really buy stuff off the LP store, so how about letting me just straight up trade my LP for more isk.
No. That would completely defeat its purpose.
The point of the LP store is to act as an ISK sink ù to remove ISK from the economy. What you're asking for is that it instead add ISK to the economy, which would be bad in and of itself, but is made even worse when it is tied to the one activity that is already the biggest ISK faucet of the game. ùùù ôWe want to try this thing called micro-transactions, but we don't know what it is. Can anyone explainà aw screw it, let's just do it! What could go wrong?ö ù ÇÇP |
HELLBOUNDMAN
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Posted - 2011.07.13 18:14:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: HELLBOUNDMAN Simple,
I don't really buy stuff off the LP store, so how about letting me just straight up trade my LP for more isk.
No. That would completely defeat its purpose.
The point of the LP store is to act as an ISK sink ù to remove ISK from the economy. What you're asking for is that it instead add ISK to the economy, which would be bad in and of itself, but is made even worse when it is tied to the one activity that is already the biggest ISK faucet of the game.
How is it an isk sink?
You trade a bit of isk and LP and in some cases dog tags in order to get more isk by selling the item.
So again, how is it an isk sink?
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.07.13 18:21:00 -
[8]
Originally by: HELLBOUNDMAN So again, how is it an isk sink?
ISK from sale of items is not created but redistributed. ISK spent in LP store is removed from game.
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Baaldor
In Igne Morim
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Posted - 2011.07.13 18:23:00 -
[9]
Originally by: HELLBOUNDMAN
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: HELLBOUNDMAN Simple,
I don't really buy stuff off the LP store, so how about letting me just straight up trade my LP for more isk.
No. That would completely defeat its purpose.
The point of the LP store is to act as an ISK sink ù to remove ISK from the economy. What you're asking for is that it instead add ISK to the economy, which would be bad in and of itself, but is made even worse when it is tied to the one activity that is already the biggest ISK faucet of the game.
How is it an isk sink?
You trade a bit of isk and LP and in some cases dog tags in order to get more isk by selling the item.
So again, how is it an isk sink?
Where does that ISK you spent in the LP store go?
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Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.07.13 19:02:00 -
[10]
Originally by: HELLBOUNDMAN How is it an isk sink?
You trade a bit of isk and LP and in some cases dog tags in order to get more isk by selling the item.
No. You destroy a bit ISK, LP and some items in order to get a different item. Those inputs no longer exist in the game.
You then go and trade the faction item on the market, which only shuffles the ISK and items around. Both of them still exist in the game. You may get more ISK in your wallet than was there before, but the economy as a whole has lost the ISK that was destroyed in the process of creating the faction item you used to earn those ISK.
Your wallet is of no relevance when it comes to determining sinks or faucets, only the effect on the economy as a whole is. ùùù ôWe want to try this thing called micro-transactions, but we don't know what it is. Can anyone explainà aw screw it, let's just do it! What could go wrong?ö ù ÇÇP |
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HELLBOUNDMAN
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Posted - 2011.07.13 19:57:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: HELLBOUNDMAN How is it an isk sink?
You trade a bit of isk and LP and in some cases dog tags in order to get more isk by selling the item.
No. You destroy a bit ISK, LP and some items in order to get a different item. Those inputs no longer exist in the game.
You then go and trade the faction item on the market, which only shuffles the ISK and items around. Both of them still exist in the game. You may get more ISK in your wallet than was there before, but the economy as a whole has lost the ISK that was destroyed in the process of creating the faction item you used to earn those ISK.
Your wallet is of no relevance when it comes to determining sinks or faucets, only the effect on the economy as a whole is.
Yes, I understand that, but you're also not looking at other aspects. So you're saying we destroy isk, however, if you look at it we're also getting isk from the corps while running missions.
So basically the isk we spend on those items on top of the LP we not only get back when we sell the item, but we're also getting money back while running these missions.
NPCs create isk through missions and destroy isk through LP store.
The problem with your theory is they're creating much more isk through missions than you'll ever spend in the LP store.
So treating the LP store like a isk bump doesn't make sense.
If the LP store were and isk dump than we would be trading straight up isk for LP. Buying LP essentially. That would be a dump somewhat, but it would still lead to using the LP item to make more isk that someone else ran missions to get or what not.
Either way you look at it there is much more isk being earned through the market and through missions than is being dumped in the LP store.
By the time I've made enough LP for say a megathron navy issue, than I've made way more isk than I'll dump into it through the missions, and I'll make way more isk off of it than I dump into it.
In order to consider it and isk dump their has to be some relevance and some means of leveling things out to some perspective, but the fact that we're earning more isk and selling for more isk than the isk we put into the item means that there's no leveling.
Basically it's just a cluster F..k and players should have the option to trade straight up LP for straight up isk. I have a ton of LP points but don't care to buy ships and other crap with them. I'm flying caldari and running gallente missions, so I don't need the ammo and crap. And I don't want to round up the dog tags for the more lucrative items.
So let me trade my LP for isk. Hell, maybe even sell my LP on the market. I don't care, I just don't wanna have to deal with buying something to sell it.
With LP I've basically spent my time earning foreign currency, now I'd like to exchange it for isk currency.
Kinda like real money for a plex, so you can make isk, the guy who bought it with isk is using it so he doesn't have to pay real money, or he bought it to transfer it into another currency to get an item that he could either wear or sell for even more isk.
With that example the isk flow goes either way and the player has the option on currency and use.
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Claymore Rhade
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Posted - 2011.07.13 21:13:00 -
[12]
I think according to the last quaters eco review LP was still one of the top if not the top isk sink in the game. Granted missions add isk that doesnt mean it shouldnt also sink some of it back in. You are right however there isnt nearly enough sinks in game tho.
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HELLBOUNDMAN
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Posted - 2011.07.13 21:17:00 -
[13]
Perhaps CCP shouldn't have been money grubbing when they made their new items feature.
Instead of AUR, use isk, would have been a great isk sink.
However, instead of doing that, they basically created something that leaves more isk flying around then there already was.
If they're not really finding anything new to treat as an isk sink they they might as well open it up and forgo isk sinking all together, cause they're not doing enough about it.
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Claymore Rhade
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Posted - 2011.07.13 21:28:00 -
[14]
There in lies the problem. Players like the idea of isk sinks but hate the idea of having to pay more isk for anything.
Tho you do open up a nifty idea. An differnt tier of stuff in the NeX for actual isk .
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HELLBOUNDMAN
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Posted - 2011.07.13 21:30:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Claymore Rhade There in lies the problem. Players like the idea of isk sinks but hate the idea of having to pay more isk for anything.
Tho you do open up a nifty idea. An differnt tier of stuff in the NeX for actual isk .
yeah, problem is CCP doesn't profit off of isk, unless it's through a plex, sooo no isk items.
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Baaldor
In Igne Morim
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Posted - 2011.07.13 21:32:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Claymore Rhade There in lies the problem. Players like the idea of isk sinks but hate the idea of having to pay more isk for anything.
Well yeah, it is like getting someone off crack...or wellfare.
To the OP:
LP for ISK is just another ISK faucet.
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HELLBOUNDMAN
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Posted - 2011.07.13 21:34:00 -
[17]
Just thought of something else, how about LP to AUR??? With a potential isk cost as well...
Makes it a more valid isk dump and gives you an item that can purchase another item that could be sold for isk if wanted...
I think that would work
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Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.07.13 22:37:00 -
[18]
Originally by: HELLBOUNDMAN Yes, I understand that, but you're also not looking at other aspects. So you're saying we destroy isk, however, if you look at it we're also getting isk from the corps while running missions.
Yes, and that ISK has to be destroyed somehow. LP store is one of those ways. There are no other aspects to it: LP store destroys ISK. It is therefore an ISK sink. End of story.
Quote: The problem with your theory is they're creating much more isk through missions than you'll ever spend in the LP store.
So treating the LP store like a isk bump doesn't make sense.
àexcept that it's not a theory, and that it is, indeed, an ISK sink. It makes sense to treat it like an ISK sink because, you know, it is one due to the simple fact that it removes ISK from the economy. The fact that so much ISK is created by the missions (or, more accurately, by the bounties) is just a reason why the LP store needs to exist as an ISK sink and not as another faucet.
Quote: If the LP store were and isk dump than we would be trading straight up isk for LP.
No. It's an ISK sink for the simple reason that it removes ISK. Exactly what you buy (and how) is completely irrelevant as long as it gets rid of ISK.
Quote: Either way you look at it there is much more isk being earned through the market and through missions than is being dumped in the LP store.
àand that is completely irrelevant. It removes ISK from the economy. It is therefore an ISK sink. If some loosely connected activity creates ISK doesn't matter ù the LP store takes ISK away, which makes it an ISK sink no matter how you look at it.
Quote: In order to consider it and isk dump their has to be some relevance and some means of leveling things out to some perspective, but the fact that we're earning more isk and selling for more isk than the isk we put into the item means that there's no leveling.
What? Levelling? What on earth are you talking about? Again, it's an ISK sink for the simple reason that it gets rid of ISK ù that is the very definition of an ISK sink. That is all that matters. It is also very simple in this regard: ditch ISK and LP (and what else you need), get item in return. Reversing that so that it instead injected ISK into the economy would mean it suddenly works completely counter to its intended purpose.
Quote: So let me trade my LP for isk.
No. Because the game does not need to have more ISK faucets ù it already has too many. It also does not need to have fewer ISK sinks, because they're already too few. It most definitely does not need to have one of its more effective ISK sinks converted into an ISK faucet.
Quote: Hell, maybe even sell my LP on the market. I don't care, I just don't wanna have to deal with buying something to sell it.
You are already selling you LP. If you don't want to deal with it, don't. It's not like it's a complicated procedure. Just pick something that has mass buy orders if you don't want to put any effort into it.
Originally by: HELLBOUNDMAN Just thought of something else, how about LP to AUR??? With a potential isk cost as well...
That would defeat the purpose of AUR, which is to be a PLEX sink. ùùù ôWe want to try this thing called micro-transactions, but we don't know what it is. Can anyone explainà aw screw it, let's just do it! What could go wrong?ö ù ÇÇP |
Desirsar
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Posted - 2011.07.14 01:41:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Desirsar on 14/07/2011 01:42:59 The OP is going at this from the wrong angle. Instead of turning LP into an ISK fountain by selling it back to the faction, simply allow players to directly trade LP to other players in exchange for ISK. (Not that I think that it's a good use of dev time, but it's a much more reasonable request.)
Edit - Doh, just noticed the one line about that. Still, it would not be a bad feature by itself, but not really worth the effort since one can sell LP items already.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.07.14 03:45:00 -
[20]
Originally by: HELLBOUNDMAN Players have the option to take original blue prints and make copies to sell, or they can go the harder way and actually build the items to sell.
Not much different than that.
Very different, actually. Selling an item (manufactured item, or BPC for an item) means some other player is transferring their ISK to you. No ISK is created and a small amount of ISK is destroyed through sales taxes.
Selling LP to the LP store for ISK means you'd be creating ISK.
So the situations you describe are about as different as they possibly can be.
Just pony up the ISK to buy the items that you can trade with your LP to get better items and then sell those better items. It's not even as hard as it sounds.
[ Australian players join channel ANZAC ] |
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Llambda
Space Llama Industries
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Posted - 2011.07.14 05:42:00 -
[21]
Every time I run into a post where some nitwit can't differentiate between creating isk, transferring isk, and destroying isk, I want to stab myself with a spork.
There should be a sticky. Actually, screw that. There should be a quiz that you have to pass before you're allowed to post anywhere other than Newbie Q&A.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2011.07.14 07:42:00 -
[22]
Originally by: HELLBOUNDMAN Just thought of something else, how about LP to AUR??? With a potential isk cost as well...
Makes it a more valid isk dump and gives you an item that can purchase another item that could be sold for isk if wanted...
I think that would work
you dont get the idea behind the AUR. CCP wants earning RL money with those, not creating another form of ISK.
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Crellion
Parental Control HELL4S
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Posted - 2011.07.14 10:19:00 -
[23]
LPs for ISK from other players (for example by makinf an LP token a marketable item), is a very good idea.
It is allready possible for a lot more fuss (i.e. X player gives you Y isk amount in exchange fore telling you what to spend Z LPs for on the store and you hand over the items. Because of the nature of this transaction however a lot of micromanagement is involved and a lot of trust is needed.) So this mechanic would simply streamline and facilitate something which is allreayd possible ingame...
I do not see any negative side effects for the mainstream player. Only negative for those looking to manipulate a dysfunctional market...
Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2011.07.14 10:25:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 14/07/2011 10:25:29
Originally by: Crellion It is allready possible for a lot more fuss
in eve is everything about more fuss, its not a casual game and it should not be, as it something what holds the core player member base there.
Originally by: Crellion (i.e. X player gives you Y isk amount in exchange fore telling you what to spend Z LPs for on the store and you hand over the items. Because of the nature of this transaction however a lot of micromanagement is involved and a lot of trust is needed.)
1) you buy best items in LP and put them to into contracts. No trust needed
2) if you like selling LP to a friend, buy wanted items in LP store and create a private contract on agreed conditions. No trust needed.
Originally by: Crellion I do not see any negative side effects for the mainstream player. Only negative for those looking to manipulate a dysfunctional market...
wtf? How manipulate? Whatever, eve is all about looking into things how they work and all, eve is about time investment = profit, not being successful casual tard.
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HELLBOUNDMAN
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Posted - 2011.07.14 16:37:00 -
[25]
Ok, what I'm saying about isk sinks is that they're not needed in the world of eve.
So much isk is created that there's no where near enough sinks to measure up with that.
In eve the npcs are the government, and the purpose of them having a sink would be to draw in money that can be destroyed so that new money can be circulated into the system without causing a inflation issue.
In eve there is so much more isk being created than is being destroyed, thus negating the purpose of an isk dump. However, I get the point that no one wants to turn on the isk faucets.
So why not make LP tradable with other players. It doesn't create any new isk, and someone else is still sinking isk into the faction items.
It's basically meant for players like me who don't like the micro transactions of buying a LP item and then trying to sell the LP item.
Now, to move on a bit further, if CCP wants a true isk sink then they need to develop another area in which to do it where there is no payout for the item.
My suggestion....
PAINT SHOPS.. Why not... I'm extremely annoyed with the fact that they're considering allowing you to customize the paint on your ship through AUR..
It ****es me of that players are basically having to pay more real money in order to have more personalization in their game.
Lets say you want a pair of pants. You can either buy 3 plexes for around 400mil each, and spend 2 1/2 of what you get, or you can buy the pants straight up for isk on the market for more than carriers, faction battleships, marauders..etc etc....
So, instead of making the players pay more to play a bit more to their own style, give us something that we'll all enjoy and have always wanted, and don't make us pay more for it!!!
Plus, it would be a great isk sink that would make complete sense
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Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.07.14 16:54:00 -
[26]
Originally by: HELLBOUNDMAN Ok, what I'm saying about isk sinks is that they're not needed in the world of eve.
How so? How else are you going to keep the money supply down?
Quote: So much isk is created that there's no where near enough sinks to measure up with that.
àwhich means that they are most definitely needed, and removing the ones that exist is a bad idea. If anything, having more sinks would be a good idea.
Quote: In eve there is so much more isk being created than is being destroyed, thus negating the purpose of an isk dump.
No, the exact opposite is true: so much is being created that it requires the presence of ISK sinks. The purpose of ISK sinks is to counteract ISK faucets, and even if those faucets are too large, that purpose still exists ù it is, if anything, even more validated. The presence of ISK faucets does in no way negate the purpose of the sinks.
Quote: However, I get the point that no one wants to turn on the isk faucets.
What? The faucets are already on. That's why it would be a horribly bad idea to turn a sink into yet another faucet.
Quote: Now, to move on a bit further, if CCP wants a true isk sink then they need to develop another area in which to do it where there is no payout for the item.
They already have true ISK sinks. The LP store is one of them. It's so effective that it almost completely negates the normal mission rewards.
Look. Before you start talking about sinks and faucets, I would suggest that you learn a bit about what they are and why they're needed. So far, what you're saying makes no sense, and what little makes sense is completely contradictory. A good place to start is the 2009 fanfest economy presentation ù it's on youtube. You might also want to look at this day slice of the faucets and sinks. And finally, you'll want to consider the following list:
Faucets:- NPC bounties
- NPC buy orders
- Mission rewards
- Insurance payout
- GM actions
- Reimbursement for lost pods
- Character creation
Sinks:- Market taxes & fees
- NPC sell orders
- NPC station services
- Repairs
- Jump clone installation
- Medical clone installation/upgrade/station change
- Science and industry slot rental
- Ship insurance
- Wardecs
- Sovereignty fees
- PI fees
- Building PI structures
- Import/export tax
- Office fees
- Corp & alliance fees
- Corp creation
- Alliance creation
- Alliance upkeep
- Creating/awarding medals
- Corp registry ads
- Agent fees
- (Certain) LP store items
- Locator agent services
- Courier missions w/ deposits
- CSPA Charges
- Smuggling fines
- GM Actions
- Removal of bought ISK
- Removal of insurance after ship reimbursement
- Character deletion
ùùù ôWe want to try this thing called micro-transactions, but we don't know what it is. Can anyone explainà aw screw it, let's just do it! What could go wrong?ö ù ÇÇP |
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