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Question to The Mittani and his flying monkeys

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Kalle Demos Amarr Helix Protocol	Posted - 2011.07.15 09:44:00 - [1] Why do you want to nerf WHs? How does this affect your NC agenda, your coalition has fallen and your alliance will too (3 months tops). Dont you think you should focus all your efforts on improving lowsec / WHs, since thats where you will be by the end of the year or will your alliance be focusing on living in hi sec again? Eitherway explain to the community why you have desperately been trying to nerf WHs Oh and for the sake of things, flying monkeys, will it taste that good once you are without sov, I think not . LETS POST ON CAOD GANG!
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2011.07.15 10:03:00 - [2] Quote: Question to The Mittani and his flying monkeys Wait what? They can fly!!?!?! Personally don't see how infinitely vulnerable day-trip mining operations will be more than a blip on the radar compared to 23/7 drone ratting or deep blue sea mining. There should be more opportunities for highly lucrative day-trips of all sorts, not less .. Eve is pretty stagnant as is due to the "everything in its place" mentality.
Siigari Kitawa Gallente Perditus Peregrinus	Posted - 2011.07.15 10:04:00 - [3] Hirana, have you ever seen The Wizard of Oz? www.siigarikitawa.com ò Buy a GTC
AnzacPaul the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2011.07.15 10:55:00 - [4] inb4goons ______ GIGAR; >> The three priorities for CCP after launching Incarna will be 1)launching DUST 514, 2)launching World of Darkness 3)and continuing to improve on EVE.
Discrodia Gallente Symbiosis International Moose Alliance	Posted - 2011.07.15 11:01:00 - [5] Because of RMT, and how Mittens n' co. want a more exclusive control of the economy so they can sell more ISK. Quote: The most effective post is the first post, do not waste it.
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.07.15 12:09:00 - [6] Edited by: Ingvar Angst on 15/07/2011 12:10:51 Edited by: Ingvar Angst on 15/07/2011 12:10:03 They won't answer. They can't. They have no clue what's really going on. They didn't even realize wormholes were the ultimate in null-sec, nor that they had ABC ores. Of course, once they heard that, they assumed the holes were vast spigots gushing minerals into empire without knowing even the most basic aspects of wormhole living. All they're worried about is something threatening their little null bot fleets with even the tiniest hint of competition, and I'm afraid CCP may be suckered along into the vat of stupidity. Even if wormholes aren't exactly what CCP intended, I hope they recognize what they've become, and how fanstatic they are at this. They've evolved into something great and could use a little more buffing (ice fuels, for example, available (think Comets)) rather than a nerf. There is no monocle.
Hannibal Ord Minmatar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2011.07.15 12:23:00 - [7] Originally by: Ingvar Angst Edited by: Ingvar Angst on 15/07/2011 12:10:51 Edited by: Ingvar Angst on 15/07/2011 12:10:03 They won't answer. They can't. They have no clue what's really going on. They didn't even realize wormholes were the ultimate in null-sec, nor that they had ABC ores. Of course, once they heard that, they assumed the holes were vast spigots gushing minerals into empire without knowing even the most basic aspects of wormhole living. All they're worried about is something threatening their little null bot fleets with even the tiniest hint of competition, and I'm afraid CCP may be suckered along into the vat of stupidity. Even if wormholes aren't exactly what CCP intended, I hope they recognize what they've become, and how fanstatic they are at this. They've evolved into something great and could use a little more buffing (ice fuels, for example, available (think Comets)) rather than a nerf. You are so right mate.
Graic Gabtar	Posted - 2011.07.15 12:28:00 - [8] One hundred people could vote in the CSM elections and it would still be free flights/beers/hookers - the works for the winners. The PR value CCP gets from having the CSM on a short leash in exchange for the bones thrown to their alliances is truly priceless. The "represent" the players y'see. Read that fireside chat thread for how simply out of touch the CSM is after being drowned in Kool-Aid.
Xirin	Posted - 2011.07.15 12:34:00 - [9] I for one would like to see some hard numbers on the percentage of high-end minerals that come from wormholes compared to, say, the massive mining CTA's that null-sec has every bloody day. Besides, grav sites are the least profitable content in wormholes. A lot of people don't even bother with them.
Cutter Isaacson Minmatar Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.07.15 13:01:00 - [10] Funny, I could have sworn it was CCP that decided what to nerf and what not to nerf, not the CSM. Here is a better question, is the OP mentally challenged?

Wreckar	Posted - 2011.07.15 13:04:00 - [11] I must've missed this. Could someone point me to the dev blog that mentions exactly what they are doing? Seems to me that the irrational irate are boarding the bandwagon early and are killing time. Again.
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.07.15 13:14:00 - [12] Edited by: Ingvar Angst on 15/07/2011 13:24:36 Originally by: Wreckar I must've missed this. Could someone point me to the dev blog that mentions exactly what they are doing? Seems to me that the irrational irate are boarding the bandwagon early and are killing time. Again. ... eh... wrong link... There is no monocle.
Kalle Demos Amarr Helix Protocol	Posted - 2011.07.15 13:18:00 - [13] Edited by: Kalle Demos on 15/07/2011 13:20:33 Quote: CCP talked about removing ABC (Arkonor, Bistot and Crokite) mining sites from wormhole space at some point in the future. This may be from all wormholes, or possibly from lower class wormholes only. It was claimed by some members of the CSM that a large fraction of the high end ore supply is produced through these sites, however the CSMs who were active in wormholes would not accept this claim without hard data to back it up. From Bottom Of Page 27 this isnt the only thing that is making people facepalm, Mittani once again suggests something dumb and White Tree / Vile Rat and those other 2 NC CSM agree without question. It is so cute when you see grown men fear one another because of internet spaceship politics LMFAO I am willing to bet the CSM that opposed the WH changes and wanted evidence of the claim were Meissa, Seleene and Trebor too . LETS POST ON CAOD GANG!
Wreckar	Posted - 2011.07.15 13:20:00 - [14] Originally by: Ingvar Angst Originally by: Wreckar I must've missed this. Could someone point me to the dev blog that mentions exactly what they are doing? Seems to me that the irrational irate are boarding the bandwagon early and are killing time. Again. http://www.eveonline.com/council/transcripts/2010/CSM_CCP_Meetings_23-25_06_2010.pdf Thanks for linking me to those discussions. Already seen them. Question still stands.
Brainless Bimbo Minmatar	Posted - 2011.07.15 13:30:00 - [15] Mittens is a lipublitard... once you understand that it all makes sense. CCP Shadow 24/06/2010 17:30:40: We do not have plans to go microtransaction with EVE. October 2010 CSM Virtual Goods unveiled
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2011.07.15 13:46:00 - [16] Originally by: Wreckar Could someone point me to the dev blog that mentions exactly what they are doing? The pebbles are attempting to stop the avalanche from starting. By the time that dev blog you are looking for comes out, it will be too late, since devblogs announce stuff that is well under way or finished. The time to take a stance on the stupidity and hypocrisy of this CSM is right now before they herp derp the game into worse trouble. In the first page, CSM6 thumbed their noses at CSM5's interest in getting something done about lowsec. Then The Mittani backtracked on his statement about not getting involved in things he doesn't understand. The CSM minutes reflect either a grossly incompetent CSM, or a CSM intentionally spreading misinformation and propaganda (CSM trolling the playerbase? I wouldn't put it past them) [ Australian players join channel ANZAC ]
Kalle Demos Amarr Helix Protocol	Posted - 2011.07.15 13:57:00 - [17] Originally by: Mara Rinn The CSM minutes reflect either a grossly incompetent CSM, or a CSM intentionally spreading misinformation and propaganda (CSM trolling the playerbase? I wouldn't put it past them) The MT drama is a prime example of Mittani's incompetence, if you read his posts during the time (which will now get editted I bet) he opens up about drinking beer and eating take out on a Friday night then goes from "I hate MT, no to gold ammo" to "well maybe gold ammo isnt too bad" to "gold ammo is vanity". CCP tend to ignore all his suggestions anyway, the great thing about CCP is, they know that Mittani has some influence over his sheep so allowing him to speak will encourage Goons to remain loyal to CCP, for most of the rules and changes Trebor, Seleene and Meissa seem to be doing all the work and for what its worth their suggestions and comments (although they dont always agree with each other) are all about making the game better without any political influence. With NC dead Mittani's influence got smaller and smaller much like his manhood and with that his CSM agenda makes no sense, after all GSF and the remaining sheeps of NC are getting purged as we speak. . LETS POST ON CAOD GANG!
Important Person	Posted - 2011.07.15 14:02:00 - [18] Originally by: Mara Rinn The pebbles are attempting to stop the avalanche from starting. Yes, this is what my sources tell me as well.
Ranger 1 Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent	Posted - 2011.07.15 14:09:00 - [19] Originally by: Mara Rinn Originally by: Wreckar Could someone point me to the dev blog that mentions exactly what they are doing? The pebbles are attempting to stop the avalanche from starting. By the time that dev blog you are looking for comes out, it will be too late, since devblogs announce stuff that is well under way or finished. The time to take a stance on the stupidity and hypocrisy of this CSM is right now before they herp derp the game into worse trouble. In the first page, CSM6 thumbed their noses at CSM5's interest in getting something done about lowsec. Then The Mittani backtracked on his statement about not getting involved in things he doesn't understand. The CSM minutes reflect either a grossly incompetent CSM, or a CSM intentionally spreading misinformation and propaganda (CSM trolling the playerbase? I wouldn't put it past them) Interesting though, that the suggestion has raised a considerable outcry. If so few people are mining those ore's in WH space, why are so many people upset? I would not overlook the fact that the discussion ended in the decision that more hard evidence needed to be brought forth that a change was needed... which is exactly how it should have ended. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Spurty Caldari V0LTA VOLTA Corp	Posted - 2011.07.15 14:12:00 - [20] Worm holes are sort of like this: - Dull for a couple of days - Suddenly a nice exit/entrance appears and it's fun for a couple of hours - Then it shuts and it's dull for a couple of days Only thing CCP really needs to do is create a ship capable of cycling holes and not being trapped on the wrong side to make them fricken awesomeness Sure, it sounds like it could be a terrible idea as you can meta game a "win button". in reality, it's a ship that can be blown up potentially trapping people. Its also a life line to small fleets bored of running up against opponents that just undock in 20 abaddons and carriers and just sit there on their station (not that this can't be beaten, but Sod me being so predictable not sand box behavior!). Removing stuff from worm holes is crazy talk coming from the jelly types that don't have the balls 'to boldly go where others have gone before'. Tl;dr bucket of water on that idea There's only One Zymurgist!

Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.07.15 14:39:00 - [21] Originally by: Ranger 1 Interesting though, that the suggestion has raised a considerable outcry. If so few people are mining those ore's in WH space, why are so many people upset? I would not overlook the fact that the discussion ended in the decision that more hard evidence needed to be brought forth that a change was needed... which is exactly how it should have ended. Because they'd be removing necessary resources from -1.0 space without any reason or justification. The resources are mined and for the most part used in the holes themselves. Having to add the logistics of carting in minerals that were mined by some mega-alliance bot-fleets in a higher security status area is completely ridiculous. It's already stupid that moons in wormholes have no goo, or that wormholes are reliant on empire for ice fuels. There is no monocle.
JimmyThePimp Black Viper Nomads	Posted - 2011.07.15 14:42:00 - [22] Originally by: Spurty Only thing CCP really needs to do is create a ship capable of cycling holes and not being trapped on the wrong side to make them fricken awesomeness theres a calculator built into the game, make use of it. personally id remove grav / ladar sites from wh's completely, but im not a miner. the ** people pull from them will be a drop in the ocean to the nul ops in safe zones that strip the systems bare, then theres the logistics of taking it into empire, through chains of hostile systems where folks like me are lurking. but that doesnt matter cause none of them know that, none care about that, they are only there to look after #1. bottom line, mittens is a and people seem shocked that hes acting like a . i mean really, what did you expect; he'd suddenly become an insightful and fair handed defender of the people? no, you give a prick power and they become a powerful prick, its fairly straightforward. and as long as the csm exists then the **s will allways win. live with it.
Kalle Demos Amarr Helix Protocol	Posted - 2011.07.15 14:49:00 - [23] Originally by: JimmyThePimp personally id remove grav / ladar sites from wh's completely EEEK!! Dont give them idea's XD . LETS POST ON CAOD GANG!
White Tree	Posted - 2011.07.15 14:54:00 - [24] Originally by: Kalle Demos How does this affect your NC agenda Maybe there never was an NC agenda? Maybe ... just maybe ... You're basically always wrong. _______________________________________
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.07.15 15:25:00 - [25] Originally by: White Tree Originally by: Kalle Demos How does this affect your NC agenda Maybe there never was an NC agenda? Maybe ... just maybe ... You're basically always wrong. So, if I may ask, who's considering nerfing wormholes and why? There is no monocle.
Mr Kidd	Posted - 2011.07.15 15:32:00 - [26] Edited by: Mr Kidd on 15/07/2011 15:36:08 Edited by: Mr Kidd on 15/07/2011 15:32:41 Originally by: Ranger 1 Interesting though, that the suggestion has raised a considerable outcry. If so few people are mining those ore's in WH space, why are so many people upset? The statement indicated "minerals coming out of w-space". A lot of people mine in w-space. But, only a few mine with the intent to export. The logistics of getting ore/minerals out of w-space make it somewhat of a quagmire to do so. There is really no way for w-space to compete with null for ABC. Unrefined ore takes up a lot of space. The largest ship that can get out of w-space excluding C1's is the Orca. Compared to the Rorq and freighters the Orca is only slightly more efficient than an Iteron V. And you always have to contend with collapsing your holes because of the mass limitations. So, really, you're not going to have a large steady stream of ore coming out of w-space. You can however, refine the ore. But even still, assuming a medium or intensive refining array you're going to lose 25% to built in inefficiencies. There's no way around that. The mineral market isn't profitable enough to take a 25% loss plus all the hassle of getting large amounts out of w-space. The time and inefficiencies make it not worth your effort with the intent of selling the minerals. Refining is not as much of an issue for null as it is for w-space since null have stations capable to efficiently refining ore. And null has the means to efficiently move large quantities of ore to the refining stations. Why so many people are complaining about the statement is that it makes no sense. And yes, a lot of people in w-space do mine but, mainly for their own purposes to construct ships, carriers, ammo, modules, etc. To remove ABC from parts of w-space is to effectively take all the difficulties of getting ABC out but, reverse it and effectively make it as difficult to get sufficient quantities in. It's a rather damaging nerf, TBH, not solely limited to selling minerals.
Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2011.07.15 15:38:00 - [27] BOO HOO ~~~
Ranger 1 Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent	Posted - 2011.07.15 15:53:00 - [28] Edited by: Ranger 1 on 15/07/2011 15:54:01 I personally am not arguing in favor or removing the ABC ore from WH, I was just making an interesting observation. Namely: The conclusion made by some that nobody mines in WH space is obviously false.. The conclusion made by some that the volume of ABC ore mined in WH space has a significant impact on the EVE economy is probably false, but could stand to have some verification before anything is decided We also need to keep in mind that we are not privy to the upcoming plans for the restructuring of resources and capabilities for the various "types" of EVE space. There could very well be good reason for considering this change if the focus of WH space is going to change significantly, or it could be totally irrelevant. Point being, we the community dont have all of the information we need to decide if the change would be "for no good reason". Without that information (both accurate information on ABC export volumes AND future changes in resource distribution) we have no accurate frame of reference to form a valid opinion. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Bane Nucleus Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe Transmission Lost	Posted - 2011.07.15 16:03:00 - [29] The one point I would like to bring up is that mining in wormhole space is totally dependent on if you have a grav site in the system. Null sec systems have static belts, everyday. This alone makes me believe it's very unlikely that wormhole space puts out the amount of ore into high sec as they claim.
Mya ElleTerego Amarr The Hull Miners Union	Posted - 2011.07.15 16:16:00 - [30] You have to either need the minerals to actually use for your corp manufacturing in the WH for logistics reasons, or your a complete moron if mining minerals is why you crawled into a wormhole. The absolute, near 24/7 safety that null sec, sov upgrade grav belts provide is the only place to mine for a non total noob / idiot.

Kalle Demos Amarr Helix Protocol	Posted - 2011.07.15 16:23:00 - [31] Originally by: White Tree Originally by: Kalle Demos How does this affect your NC agenda Maybe there never was an NC agenda? Maybe ... just maybe ... You're basically always wrong. Is this your opinion or the mittens that pulls your strings? . LETS POST ON CAOD GANG!
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.07.15 16:24:00 - [32] Originally by: Mya ElleTerego You have to either need the minerals to actually use for your corp manufacturing in the WH for logistics reasons, or your a complete moron if mining minerals is why you crawled into a wormhole. The absolute, near 24/7 safety that null sec, sov upgrade grav belts provide is the only place to mine for a non total noob / idiot. They flat out know that wormholes aren't a real threat to their bot-mining in null sec. That's why they don't have the nuts to come here and counter any of their fallacious arguments. There is no monocle.
Ineka	Posted - 2011.07.15 16:26:00 - [33] Originally by: Kalle Demos Why do you want to nerf WHs? Because they can't hide in, too many monkeys and not enough bananas
Haulie Berry	Posted - 2011.07.15 16:38:00 - [34] Edited by: Haulie Berry on 15/07/2011 16:38:40 Quote: I personally am not arguing in favor or removing the ABC ore from WH, I was just making an interesting observation. Namely: The conclusion made by some that nobody mines in WH space is obviously false.. You're arguing a non-point here. The assertion is not that "nobody mines in WH space". The assertion is that "nobody (which is really just a brief way of saying, "a not-significant number of people") goes to wormholes to mine for minerals to bring to market". WH corps mine in wormholes and then use the minerals acquired to build in the WHs, because it's easier than dealing with the logistical nightmare of bringing outside minerals in. The suggestion to remove them pretty clearly flies in the face of the whole "risk Vs. reward" thing that is (or used to be, it seems) paramount to Eve.
Gaylord BentwickSmyth	Posted - 2011.07.15 17:17:00 - [35] nullsec-resident CSMs, who were surprised to learn that WH space was nullsec Yeah, that must have come as a real surprise seeing as wspace has been around for more than two years now. In that two years, those numb-skulls claiming to represent all EVE players, have not bothered to learn or read anythingabout a part of the game which is now integral. Shame on you CSM nullsec noobs, two years of ignorance about an obvious and out-there part of the game means you are not fit for purpose and you are unrepresentative. Thank lordy there were some CSM folks who have a clue. Shame on you too for your silly, self-interested, uninformed, knee jerk reactions and the changes you seem to support.
Ranger 1 Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent	Posted - 2011.07.15 18:06:00 - [36] Edited by: Ranger 1 on 15/07/2011 18:06:51 Originally by: Gaylord BentwickSmyth nullsec-resident CSMs, who were surprised to learn that WH space was nullsec Yeah, that must have come as a real surprise seeing as wspace has been around for more than two years now. In that two years, those numb-skulls claiming to represent all EVE players, have not bothered to learn or read anythingabout a part of the game which is now integral. Shame on you CSM nullsec noobs, two years of ignorance about an obvious and out-there part of the game means you are not fit for purpose and you are unrepresentative. Thank lordy there were some CSM folks who have a clue. Shame on you too for your silly, self-interested, uninformed, knee jerk reactions and the changes you seem to support. Nobody can be well informed on every single aspect of EVE, it's a bit too big and a bit too complex. Can you tell me off the top of your head the necessary components and steps that go into your best chance of success for inventing a Pilgrim BPC? Can you tell me the most effective fit for a dual prop Dramiel, and why? Can you tell me specifically which systems are the best ones to farm Gurista's rats and which ships are best for it? Can you tell me which Epic Arc missions are the most lucurative, and why? My point is, there are area's that each CSM delegate has an excellent depth of knowledge in, and area's that they do not. That would be why we have more than one. @Haulie Berry You are correct, which would explain the rest of my post, as well as my other posts. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Leeroy McJenkins GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.07.15 18:32:00 - [37] Originally by: Kalle Demos Edited by: Kalle Demos on 15/07/2011 16:34:41 Originally by: White Tree Originally by: Kalle Demos How does this affect your NC agenda Maybe there never was an NC agenda? Maybe ... just maybe ... You're basically always wrong. Is this your opinion or the mittens that pulls your strings opinion? Simply the facts Kalle, its also likely they did it just to troll you and others like you. Originally by: Leeroy McJenkins There is no real pvp in EVE, there is only winning or losing and then feeling :smug: about winning or sore about losing. There is nothing wrong with this arrangement.
Cydori	Posted - 2011.07.15 18:35:00 - [38] Edited by: Cydori on 15/07/2011 18:36:53 The CSM is a mess. It's generally pretty disorganized and hamstrung by a lack of agreement over what its core function even is. And like all bureaucracies it's primary function seems to be to perpetuate its own existence and to act as a vehicle to get perks for its members. Hell, half the CSM members don't even play EVE on a regular basis; they're just in it for the virtual politics and forum warfare. But this is okay. Watching people like Mittanni flail around impotently while trying to convince the rest of us that the CSM is effectively engaging with CCP and making significant "progress" is a continual source of amusement. Fear the day when the CSM is actually organized, focused, and its positions given real credence by CCP. Efficient governments are almost always tyrannies of the worst sort, and people like Mittanni have a lot of experience with virtual tyranny. The CSM is a joke. Let us hope it stays that way.
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.07.15 18:46:00 - [39] Originally by: Ranger 1 Edited by: Ranger 1 on 15/07/2011 18:06:51 Originally by: Gaylord BentwickSmyth nullsec-resident CSMs, who were surprised to learn that WH space was nullsec Yeah, that must have come as a real surprise seeing as wspace has been around for more than two years now. In that two years, those numb-skulls claiming to represent all EVE players, have not bothered to learn or read anythingabout a part of the game which is now integral. Shame on you CSM nullsec noobs, two years of ignorance about an obvious and out-there part of the game means you are not fit for purpose and you are unrepresentative. Thank lordy there were some CSM folks who have a clue. Shame on you too for your silly, self-interested, uninformed, knee jerk reactions and the changes you seem to support. Nobody can be well informed on every single aspect of EVE, it's a bit too big and a bit too complex. Can you tell me off the top of your head the necessary components and steps that go into your best chance of success for inventing a Pilgrim BPC? Can you tell me the most effective fit for a dual prop Dramiel, and why? Can you tell me specifically which systems are the best ones to farm Gurista's rats and which ships are best for it? Can you tell me which Epic Arc missions are the most lucurative, and why? My point is, there are area's that each CSM delegate has an excellent depth of knowledge in, and area's that they do not. That would be why we have more than one. @Haulie Berry You are correct, which would explain the rest of my post, as well as my other posts. If there's something you don't know, shouldn't you gain some knowledge about it before screaming for it to be nerfed? Gee, there's ABC in wormholes? Take it away! My bots are sad! There is no monocle.
Kerah Yahr Amarr Corus Industries	Posted - 2011.07.15 18:53:00 - [40] Originally by: Ranger 1 Originally by: Gaylord BentwickSmyth nullsec-resident CSMs, who were surprised to learn that WH space was nullsec Nobody can be well informed on every single aspect of EVE, it's a bit too big and a bit too complex. I agree that Eve is big and complex. I'm just not so sure about someone calling for nerfs on something they don't even know the basics about. I don't know about anyone else, but spending 2 seconds in WHS, seeing the '0.0' constantly being displayed on the upper-left part of the screen is a dead giveaway that it's null. But Eve is complex, I could be wrong.

Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.07.15 19:50:00 - [41] Originally by: Kerah Yahr Edited by: Kerah Yahr on 15/07/2011 19:00:26 Originally by: Ranger 1 Originally by: Gaylord BentwickSmyth nullsec-resident CSMs, who were surprised to learn that WH space was nullsec Nobody can be well informed on every single aspect of EVE, it's a bit too big and a bit too complex. I agree that Eve is big and complex. I'm just not so sure about someone calling for nerfs on something they don't even know the basics about. I don't know about anyone else, but spending 2 seconds in WHS, seeing the '0.0' constantly being displayed on the upper-left part of the screen is a dead giveaway that it's null. But Eve is complex, I could be wrong. [Edit] I realize that they may not have even been into W-space at all. My opinion still stands, why ask to change something that you don't know anything about. Just as an fyi... in wormholes it's -1.0, not 0.0. There is no monocle.
Ein Phantom	Posted - 2011.07.15 20:18:00 - [42] Originally by: White Tree Maybe there never was an NC agenda? Maybe ... just maybe ... You're basically always wrong. THANKS FOR THE RATIONAL DISCUSSION
Llambda Space Llama Industries	Posted - 2011.07.15 20:20:00 - [43] Originally by: White Tree Originally by: Kalle Demos How does this affect your NC agenda Maybe there never was an NC agenda? Maybe ... just maybe ... You're basically always wrong. It's comforting to know that we're being represented by someone with this capacity for rational, well-reasoned debate.
Karash Amerius Sutoka	Posted - 2011.07.15 20:38:00 - [44] There is a lot of things that should be tweaked in WH space, but removing gravmetric sites is not one of them. They definitely need to get rid of the customs in PI however. ========================= Karash Amerius - Operative - Sutoka Fighting Broke - A Eve Online Blog =========================
Jada Maroo	Posted - 2011.07.15 21:10:00 - [45] Edited by: Jada Maroo on 15/07/2011 21:10:20 Originally by: Karash Amerius They definitely need to get rid of the customs in PI however. Agreed, it makes no sense to have them. Customs offices in WH space (or maybe even 0.0) need to be replaced by a special PI launch reception ship or something.
Valei Khurelem	Posted - 2011.07.15 21:45:00 - [46] Edited by: Valei Khurelem on 15/07/2011 21:44:57 Originally by: Llambda Originally by: White Tree Originally by: Kalle Demos How does this affect your NC agenda Maybe there never was an NC agenda? Maybe ... just maybe ... You're basically always wrong. It's comforting to know that we're being represented by someone with this capacity for rational, well-reasoned debate. I think we can all agree this is why CSM should never have been made in the first place, if CCP want to talk to players, they can use a bloody forum or email, since that's what they are for.
Jonathan Ferguson JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance	Posted - 2011.07.15 21:49:00 - [47] Originally by: Valei Khurelem If CCP want to talk to players, they can use a bloody forum or email, since that's what they are for. True, but CCP doesn't give a rat's ass about the players. That's why they pretend that one goon (Touborg) agreeing to do whatever another goon, Gianturdo (aka Mittens) tells him to do in exchange for PR cover is 'talking to the players.' "I represent those who voted for me, not 'everyone'. Don't give me your entitled voter schtick ..." ~CSM Chair Mittens
Elder Man Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.07.15 21:56:00 - [48] Originally by: White Tree Originally by: Kalle Demos How does this affect your NC agenda Maybe there never was an NC agenda? Maybe ... just maybe ... You're basically always wrong. Of coarse there's an "agenda". If you say you don't do things that favor your alliance, your a liar. Doesn't mean you don't do other things, but don't blow smoke up folks' arse's with "we don't do stuff like that" . You might fool some of the younger, less experienced in the worldly ways, but you don't fool us old guys. Elder Man
Ranger 1 Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent	Posted - 2011.07.15 22:07:00 - [49] Edited by: Ranger 1 on 15/07/2011 22:11:28 Edited by: Ranger 1 on 15/07/2011 22:10:19 Originally by: Kerah Yahr Edited by: Kerah Yahr on 15/07/2011 19:00:26 Originally by: Ranger 1 Originally by: Gaylord BentwickSmyth nullsec-resident CSMs, who were surprised to learn that WH space was nullsec Nobody can be well informed on every single aspect of EVE, it's a bit too big and a bit too complex. I agree that Eve is big and complex. I'm just not so sure about someone calling for nerfs on something they don't even know the basics about. I don't know about anyone else, but spending 2 seconds in WHS, seeing the '0.0' constantly being displayed on the upper-left part of the screen is a dead giveaway that it's null. But Eve is complex, I could be wrong. [Edit] I realize that they may not have even been into W-space at all. My opinion still stands, why ask to change something that you don't know anything about. That would probably explain why the decision was made to get hard data to determine whether there was a problem worth worrying about to begin with. There is zero harm in asking if something has become a problem. There is only harm if you assume there is and proceed without knowing the facts. It is VERY likely that they will decide the amount of minerals exiting WH space is negligible, but that decision will be based on facts rather than your conjecture or on mine... which is as it should be. The only reason I can see where it might be done anyway would be if it is part of a larger overhaul of resource distribution in the game, but that is pure speculation. By the way, I can see that there was some surprise that WH space was considered to be part of null sec. In many ways it is it's own beast, with it's own stripes. If WH space is going to be put under the same umbrella as traditional null sec when it comes to it's mineral distribution in future redistribution tweaking, this has ramifications we may not be fully aware of yet. The point is, just because something is brought up for discussion is not a cause for mindless panic and outrage. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2011.07.15 22:18:00 - [50] Originally by: Ranger 1 The point is, just because something is brought up for discussion is not a cause for mindless panic and outrage. Kinda like P2W and nerfing jumpbridges and removing anomalies? [ Australian players join channel ANZAC ]

rofflesausage	Posted - 2011.07.15 22:24:00 - [51] Move all ABC ores to WH's. No rats in belts, no local, much much harder to gather intel, no naps as you never know what WH is going to connect to you tomorrow.... MORE REWARDS FOR THE PROS
Jimmy Duce Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.07.15 22:25:00 - [52] Originally by: White Tree Originally by: Kalle Demos How does this affect your NC agenda Maybe there never was an NC agenda? Maybe ... just maybe ... You're basically always wrong. Fine, but why nerf WHs? ABCs belong in 0.0 and IIRC scannable low sec, WH space is 0.0


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