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Anita Pakonen
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Posted - 2011.07.15 14:19:00 -
[1]
eve has gone more and more into mmo style pvp with healer class (carriers/logistics) where just sheer amount of healers will make you win in combat. However finally mmmo people have been starting to realize how ridiculous crap that is. Is eve online going to follow or keep up with lulsy remote repping circle jerking?
Here's wiki rumours how guild wars 2 is going to develop:
In two official blog postings, designers stated that the traditional MMORPG role for a backline "healer" class will be superseded with support mechanics that encourage or require direct involvement in combat. While one of these designers did confirm that players can fill up the majority of their skill bars with support skills, he asserted that these skills would require "judicious application", even while healing. Furthermore, heals that affect allies are said to be much weaker than a player's "self heal".
More pew pew less magical ponies.
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Makko Gray
Nexus Aerospace Corporation
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Posted - 2011.07.15 14:26:00 -
[2]
What's wrong with just jamming, damping or neuting them?
'Healers' won't get you a win without bringing damage to the table.
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Kinuko
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Posted - 2011.07.15 14:32:00 -
[3]
Logistics make quite a lot of sense for a game like EVE where an experienced pilot can change heal to DPS quickly.
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Discrodia
Gallente Symbiosis International Moose Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.15 14:33:00 -
[4]
You got a problem with magical ponies?
Quote: The most effective post is the first post, do not waste it.
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Cailais
Amarr Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.07.15 14:35:00 -
[5]
I think GW2 is having a decent stab at breaking the holy trinity of tank/dps/heal - although at the core of 'pvp' in game design terms everything breaks down into "damage vs health" / "buffs vs d'buffs" in the end.
I think GW2 plans more to allow players to swap into a support / healer role regardless of their basic 'class'. So in some sense the holy trinity will still be there.
One possible route would be to construct the promised 'intel suite' that's been muted to replace local by making logistics more immediately visible. The side effect of this might be that not taking logistics healers with your fleet would increase its inherent stealthiness.
C.
'GREED IS GOOD' - CCP 2011 (ಠ_O)
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Mors Magne
Astral Adventure
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Posted - 2011.07.15 14:38:00 -
[6]
I suppose EWAR is a form of tanking, but it's a tenuous link.
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Anita Pakonen
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Posted - 2011.07.15 14:57:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Makko Gray What's wrong with just jamming, damping or neuting them?
'Healers' won't get you a win without bringing damage to the table.
There is nothing wrong with that.
However eve online gang warfare currently resembles a lot guild wars guild battles i.e. you can have 3 healers (logis) which will just kite around while opposite side tries to interrupt them (jam/damp whatever). If you have played gw you know how lulsy that is.
On general side it is about player enjoyment. Playing a pure healer is usually boring so it is difficult to find proper players willing to do the job. And for both sides in battle there is possibility that it becomes frustrating healing fest where you just try to break healing cycles instead of actually killing something.
I think, especially for pve it's major improvement when you do not have specialized healer but instead every character in team can be useful for current "dungeon" with proper setup. Even in eve online you can "win" every "dungeon" if you just bring a bunch of healers, in other words it is also challenge for dungeon designers if you can just bring more and more healers to beat the dungeon.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.07.15 15:02:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Makko Gray What's wrong with just jamming, damping or neuting them?
EWAR doesn't work on SCs, and you need quite a large amount of heavy neuts to nuke the cap of a SC low enough to cause it to stop RRing.
You know, the blindingly obvious nerf//fix would be to remove SC EWAR immunity. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.15 15:14:00 -
[9]
Arena net is worse off than CCP and you want to copy their model?
WTF for? People come here and ***** about WoW day in and day out, and GW2 is a carbon copy of WoW.
GW2 is already 3 years behind schedule. 3 ****ing years. Lets copy arena nets fail tactics, please. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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Florestan Bronstein
draketrain
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Posted - 2011.07.15 15:54:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 15/07/2011 16:03:59
(a) "healing" in EVE is extremely boring and powerful compared to other MMOs - as a Guardian pilot I am chain-casting a single spell while having infinite mana. No channeling required and no dodging spells, aoes, ... IMO healing lives from having to make hard situational decisions under extremely tight constraints (like long cast times, burning through mana/cap extremely quickly, long cooldowns, ...). EVE does healing wrong in every respect possible. At the very least some tradeoff between expensive burst healing and weak sustained healing should exist.
(b) I think League of Legends is the better example than GW2 as we can play it today and RIOT are actually thinking about reworking the role of support champions in LoL. Their goal is to have less heal spells and more (soft) cc and utility in their support champions - think Janna, not Soraka (*).
tl;dr high sustained healing is broken by design. Expensive (in terms of mana/energy/capacitor/... and cooldown) burst healing can be useful but would probably suffer from EVE's lack of a maximum team size. I would like to see a major Logistics rework (to make them more active boosters than healers) but I am not holding my breath that this will happen... I'd also like to see positioning play a more important role in fights in EVE (e.g. more friendly and hostile short-range aoe). IMO basically everything except for lasers and MWDs uses way too little capacitor in EVE.
(*) Janna: passive: 3% speed increase to whole team Q: whirlwind that goes in a straight line and knocks up enemies (cd: 14s) W: slows one enemy champion (cd: 12s) E: single-target shield (cd: 10s) R: AoE heal and knock-back of enemy champions (cd: 120s)
Soraka: passive: increased magic resistance to whole team Q: AoE magic resistance debuff (cd: 3s) W: single-target heal (cd: 10s) E: single-traget mana infusion or Silence (cd: 15s) R: extremely strong heal for the whole party (cd: 120s)
Janna is centered around damage prevention (by controlling the enemy positioning) and mitigation. Her single heal is powerful but very expensive. Soraka is an incredibly boring healer who can keep herself supplied with mana.
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