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Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
9
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Posted - 2012.09.19 09:16:00 -
[31] - Quote
Touval Lysander wrote:And STOP kiddding yourself about time. if you were serious about time, use that time to make REAL money and convert to ISK. Sure it's a way to go, but IRL money to ISK conversion aside, I can't really understand what part of "time you spend hauling is time you don't spend mining more" you don't understand. If you use separate alt for hauling, then you still have to pay additional PLEX, so it's still not free. The fact that it can be cost-effective is completely another story. |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji
625
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Posted - 2012.09.19 09:40:00 -
[32] - Quote
LOL at all the talk about cost and opportunity cost by people who are wasting time playing a computer game. $ gets you ISK, but you can't turn ISK into $ folks. Reality check. Play EvE for fun, not everything is about maximizing profit in a fictional currency. |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
4856
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Posted - 2012.09.19 10:11:00 -
[33] - Quote
Wacktopia wrote:ib4chribba trit is worthless, only veldspar matters.
/c
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Piugattuk
CLOROFLORFILAPLANKTONPLATES
49
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Posted - 2012.09.19 10:50:00 -
[34] - Quote
Souisa wrote:I am not a miner, and i only recently got into manufacturing. But i cant believe the amount of trit and pyer is required. And i cant believe how much space trit and pyer takes up. 12.000m3 worth of trit does not even cover half the amount needed for a battlecruiser. Its a logistics nightmare. I dont blame miners for passing up on veldspar and scordite, and coincidentally having prices rise, because you will quickly end up spending more time traveling back and forth to station than actually mining. If trit and pye for that matter didnt take up so much space i think it would become alot more appealing to mine and haul around HUH??? surly ye jest...I love the Veldspar and the Scordite, I mine those the most and others as mineral requirements dictates ALL HAIL THE HOLY VELD!!!! |
Brooks Puuntai
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
752
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Posted - 2012.09.19 11:02:00 -
[35] - Quote
Souisa wrote:On a spreadsheet veld/scord might tell you its the better ore, but if you factor in travel back and forth to station it might not be. Low-sec mining and 0.0 mining of trit and pyer is not desirable, unless you are mining it for your own consumption, because the minerals and ores take up too much space according to their value to be worth hauling to high sec
When it comes to Nullsec it's actually not because of the space. It's more cost effective to just mine highends and use logistics to move any access highends to high sec and sell off. As for lowends you just buy them in Jita, compress them, and ship them off. The only time you mine lowends is too pop grav sites to spawn new ones. The fix to this is either massively boost lowend output in null, or nerf compression.
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Grideris
Fleet Coordination Commission Fleet Coordination Coalition
275
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Posted - 2012.09.19 14:15:00 -
[36] - Quote
Chribba wrote:Wacktopia wrote:ib4chribba trit is worthless, only veldspar matters. /c
This man speaks the truth. http://www.dust514.org - the unofficial forum for everything DUST 514 http://www.dust514base.com - the blog site with everything else DUST 514 you need
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
994
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Posted - 2012.09.19 15:35:00 -
[37] - Quote
Touval Lysander wrote:Souisa wrote:I am not a miner, and i only recently got into manufacturing. But i cant believe the amount of trit and pyer is required. And i cant believe how much space trit and pyer takes up. 12.000m3 worth of trit does not even cover half the amount needed for a battlecruiser. Its a logistics nightmare. I dont blame miners for passing up on veldspar and scordite, and coincidentally having prices rise, because you will quickly end up spending more time traveling back and forth to station than actually mining. If trit and pye for that matter didnt take up so much space i think it would become alot more appealing to mine and haul around Here's a great idea. I mine with a Hulk and an Orca. I strip and can for a while. When cans are full I put Hulk in Orca and fly the Orca to pick up my cans. Then I get back in my Hulk and start mining again. Easy done. If you want to see how this is done just let me know where you mine and I'll show you. I hope you are not leaving the Orca unpiloted floating in space. People look for those and steal them. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Shane Joven
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.09.19 16:02:00 -
[38] - Quote
Is it easier to move minerals or ore? |
Idris Helion
University of Caille Gallente Federation
75
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Posted - 2012.09.19 16:25:00 -
[39] - Quote
Shane Joven wrote:Is it easier to move minerals or ore?
Minerals take up far less space than raw ore per unit, so an indy can carry far more ISK/m3 worth of minerals than ore.
On the other hand, if your refining skills are low, you'll make more ISK by just selling the raw ore (though getting it to a market hub involves logistical hassles due to the bulk).
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Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
20
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Posted - 2012.09.19 16:30:00 -
[40] - Quote
Touval Lysander wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Touval Lysander wrote:Idris Helion wrote:Yeah, I've only been mining in eve for like five years, guy. . . . You have to factor in hauling costs What hauling costs? After 5 years you don't own a freighter that costs NOTHING to operate? Your time genius. It's a cost. As for your orca, unless it's active on grid, you'd be ebtter mining in a mackinaw and hauling when the ore old is full than using a hulk + orca to haul a few can. If both are in flight at the same time, it's still ebtter to use 2 mackinaw. ok. i been away 4 months but since when does a mack beat a hulk on rocks ? just use 2 hulks if you can fly 2 ships. And STOP kiddding yourself about time. if you were serious about time, use that time to make REAL money and convert to ISK. It's far more effective use of your time if you insist on on factoring time as a cost. Someone on $45 per hour = 3 x plex - 1.5b per hour. You won't make that mining/hauling or manufacturing - EVER.
Let me help you here Mr know it all.
The bonus a hulk gets in yields is totally killed by the fact you spend time hauling that ore with another ship, be it on another account or the same account.
1 macks beats 1 hulk + hauler on same account. The time spend warping to station and back to get the ahuler then again to come back to mining cost you more what doing a single trip in a mack with it's LARGE ore bay.
2 macks beats 1 hulk + orca hauling with boost while not moving. More strip miner active all the time. The secong account mined exactly 0m3 while hauling and some % because of boost to the hulk while stationary. In that time, the mack mined about 90% of a hulk yield. Might be more.
3 mack slightly beats 2 hulk + orca hauling/boosting. The boost is not yet big enough but it's getting really close.
4 macks does nto beat 3 hulk + orca boosting/hauling. The mining bonus now finally offset the "lost" exhumer cost of having a hauler insetaf of another miner.
Your hauling time affect your isk/hours ALL THE TIME. If you do not see the hauling time as a cost to your isk/hours, you don't know how to count. |
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Space Therapist
Better Days Ahead
22
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Posted - 2012.09.19 17:46:00 -
[41] - Quote
Chribba wrote:Wacktopia wrote:ib4chribba trit is worthless, only veldspar matters. /c
ha! I knew this post would bring you in to post....I want to make a veldespar rock replica and send it to Chribba...then again he probably has one(sitting below the veldespar poster).
in every room he walks into.
See my bio for rates and services. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
748
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 18:10:00 -
[42] - Quote
Sola Mercury wrote:Touval Lysander wrote: Here's a great idea. I mine with a Hulk and an Orca.
I strip and can for a while. When cans are full I put Hulk in Orca and fly the Orca to pick up my cans. Then I get back in my Hulk and start mining again. Easy done.
WOW! So your Orca is floating emty in space , waiting for the first pilot to get it ? genius!
How do you think I've got my indy alt Orca? -on market?
No need, there are far too many idiots giving those for free, why would you buy one? brb |
Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
20
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Posted - 2012.09.19 18:30:00 -
[43] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Sola Mercury wrote:Touval Lysander wrote: Here's a great idea. I mine with a Hulk and an Orca.
I strip and can for a while. When cans are full I put Hulk in Orca and fly the Orca to pick up my cans. Then I get back in my Hulk and start mining again. Easy done.
WOW! So your Orca is floating emty in space , waiting for the first pilot to get it ? genius! How do you think I've got my indy alt Orca? -on market? No need, there are far too many idiots giving those for free, why would you buy one?
You scan them right? They can't be stupid enough to let them float in belt. Well. Maybe... |
Touval Lysander
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
24
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Posted - 2012.09.19 21:02:00 -
[44] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Touval Lysander wrote:Souisa wrote:I am not a miner, and i only recently got into manufacturing. But i cant believe the amount of trit and pyer is required. And i cant believe how much space trit and pyer takes up. 12.000m3 worth of trit does not even cover half the amount needed for a battlecruiser. Its a logistics nightmare. I dont blame miners for passing up on veldspar and scordite, and coincidentally having prices rise, because you will quickly end up spending more time traveling back and forth to station than actually mining. If trit and pye for that matter didnt take up so much space i think it would become alot more appealing to mine and haul around Here's a great idea. I mine with a Hulk and an Orca. I strip and can for a while. When cans are full I put Hulk in Orca and fly the Orca to pick up my cans. Then I get back in my Hulk and start mining again. Easy done. If you want to see how this is done just let me know where you mine and I'll show you. I hope you are not leaving the Orca unpiloted floating in space. People look for those and steal them. Edit: Lets say you are solo mining Veld, refine locally, then haul the result to a trade hub with a freighter. How many hours of mining does it take to fill the freighter? Answer: Around 30 hours. Compared to that, the 30-60 minutes it takes to do the freighter run to the nearest trade hub is not that big a deal. If you want to see how this is done just let me know where you mine and I'll show you.
Mighta been a clue ^^^ |
Touval Lysander
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
24
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Posted - 2012.09.19 21:43:00 -
[45] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Touval Lysander wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Touval Lysander wrote:Idris Helion wrote:Yeah, I've only been mining in eve for like five years, guy. . . . You have to factor in hauling costs What hauling costs? After 5 years you don't own a freighter that costs NOTHING to operate? Your time genius. It's a cost. As for your orca, unless it's active on grid, you'd be ebtter mining in a mackinaw and hauling when the ore old is full than using a hulk + orca to haul a few can. If both are in flight at the same time, it's still ebtter to use 2 mackinaw. ok. i been away 4 months but since when does a mack beat a hulk on rocks ? just use 2 hulks if you can fly 2 ships. And STOP kiddding yourself about time. if you were serious about time, use that time to make REAL money and convert to ISK. It's far more effective use of your time if you insist on on factoring time as a cost. Someone on $45 per hour = 3 x plex - 1.5b per hour. You won't make that mining/hauling or manufacturing - EVER. Let me help you here Mr know it all. The bonus a hulk gets in yields is totally killed by the fact you spend time hauling that ore with another ship, be it on another account or the same account. 1 macks beats 1 hulk + hauler on same account. The time spend warping to station and back to get the ahuler then again to come back to mining cost you more what doing a single trip in a mack with it's LARGE ore bay. 2 macks beats 1 hulk + orca hauling with boost while not moving. More strip miner active all the time. The secong account mined exactly 0m3 while hauling and some % because of boost to the hulk while stationary. In that time, the mack mined about 90% of a hulk yield. Might be more. 3 mack slightly beats 2 hulk + orca hauling/boosting. The boost is not yet big enough but it's getting really close. 4 macks does nto beat 3 hulk + orca boosting/hauling. The mining bonus now finally offset the "lost" exhumer cost of having a hauler insetaf of another miner. Your hauling time affect your isk/hours ALL THE TIME. If you do not see the hauling time as a cost to your isk/hours, you don't know how to count. No. I think you've got my intent wrong. And besides your setups above are just plain wrong BECAUSE you are playing solo in a co-operative game. THAT in itself SHOULD be a penalty.
I love playing cell-jockey with spreadsheets too but if time is going to calculated then you have much better ways of converting time to isk. Complaining about hauling time as a loss is wrong because there are many options to make it more efficient and at least one option that is totally free.
The free option #1 Given that this is a co-operative platform, a rookie recruit would cost you nothing and most rookies would be happy to haul. They can't mine so it's not one ounce of lost production. All ya gotta do is speak nice and be attentive to their needs.
The free option #2 Get outta bed earlier in the morning and put in some overtime. You can split hairs on this if you like but if you have production targets, ya just gotta put in the effort.
The most effective. Get off yer butt, make $100 in RL (which you can't do playing games) and convert to PLEX. $100 RM is what, 3 billion ISK? Now compare how much time mining/hauling/faffing you'd need to do to make 3 billion.
If you insist on playing solo. Ramp up and get yourself an Orca pilot skilled up. I had 4 Hulks and an Orca on grid some days.
And one thing I did do was mine with an alt that could also fly an Itty 3. Every half hour or so he'd put the Hulk in the Orca, switch to the Itty and empty out to station. Orca and 3 Hulks always stayed on grid. I reckon I lost maybe 1m of production a day doing that. The Itty pilot was maxed with an extra Michii implant to make up for "lost time".
But let's face it and this is my real beef here.....
I USED to be an a-retentive miner/indy nutcase. I worked out I've got better uses for my TIME - and that's to use my GAME to have some FUN. The key word is GAME.
Whinging about time lost playing a game is well, a bit of an oxymoron |
Methesda
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
33
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Posted - 2012.09.19 22:40:00 -
[46] - Quote
There needs to be some sort of licence for posting in these forums.
Paraphrase -
"If mining for trit and pyerite was easier, we'd all make a lot more money".
Answer: No... you wouldn't. Supply and demand. Do you not understand what game you are playing? |
Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
20
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 23:24:00 -
[47] - Quote
Touval Lysander wrote:No. I think you've got my intent wrong. And besides your setups above are just plain wrong BECAUSE you are playing solo in a co-operative game. THAT in itself SHOULD be a penalty. I love playing cell-jockey with spreadsheets too but if time is going to calculated then you have much better ways of converting time to isk. Complaining about hauling time as a loss is wrong because there are many options to make it more efficient and at least one option that is totally free. The free option #1 Given that this is a co-operative platform, a rookie recruit would cost you nothing and most rookies would be happy to haul. They can't mine so it's not one ounce of lost production. All ya gotta do is speak nice and be attentive to their needs. The free option #2 Get outta bed earlier in the morning and put in some overtime. You can split hairs on this if you like but if you have production targets, ya just gotta put in the effort. The most effective. Get off yer butt, make $100 in RL (which you can't do playing games) and convert to PLEX. $100 RM is what, 3 billion ISK? Now compare how much time mining/hauling/faffing you'd need to do to make 3 billion. If you insist on playing solo. Ramp up and get yourself an Orca pilot skilled up. I had 4 Hulks and an Orca on grid some days. And one thing I did do was mine with an alt that could also fly an Itty 3. Every half hour or so he'd put the Hulk in the Orca, switch to the Itty and empty out to station. Orca and 3 Hulks always stayed on grid. I reckon I lost maybe 1m of production a day doing that. The Itty pilot was maxed with an extra Michii implant to make up for "lost time". But let's face it and this is my real beef here..... I USED to be an a-retentive miner/indy nutcase. I worked out I've got better uses for my TIME - and that's to use my GAME to have some FUN. The key word is GAME. Whinging about time lost playing a game is well, a bit of an oxymoron
Random fun fact.
My numbers are still right if each ship are run by different players in a "co-operative" way.
There is just more isk total to be made by mining in macks than in hulk up to 3 hulk with boost where the hulks start to pull away. This has been discussed to death already since the barge exhumer change. If you want to go against these numbers, then the corp as a whole or the multiboxer loose money in the end. |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
10
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Posted - 2012.09.20 05:45:00 -
[48] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:LOL at all the talk about cost and opportunity cost by people who are wasting time playing a computer game. $ gets you ISK, but you can't turn ISK into $ folks. Reality check. Play EvE for fun, not everything is about maximizing profit in a fictional currency. Some people like their space economy simulator and they're having fun with perfecting their grasp on such things though... |
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